GenII GTS Mod Question

[ViperRyan]

Good morning everyone!

I bought my 2000 GTS back in August of 2016, currently has the following mods: This is the list provided by the old owner.

Engine:
- Heffner Performance intake system with dual K&N filters
- Baffled oil pan
- Vented lower fascia for additional cooling
- Belanger Racing Products Full exhaust system w/no Cats
Suspension:
- This car is currently set up with Koni coil over adjustable shocks. Both ride height and rebound are externally adjustable.
- It has been lowered, corner balanced and bump steer removed.
- Set up to run Prepared class or Super Stock at Viper days depending on safety equipment.
Other Modifications:
- Power steering cooler
- adjustable brake bias valve
- SST lines
- HD drive shaft and half shafts (Unitrax)
- poly engine and transmission mounts
- various MG billet aluminum pieces such as the gas cap, dash knobs and license plate frame
- New drilled/slotted rotors and 40MM rear calipers

I'm looking to do a couple more mods that won't break the bank. Looking into new gears for the rear end and with my current wheels(GenV Sidewinder II's) it sounds like the way to go are the 3:55's, anyones thoughts on that?

Also, looking into the 1.7 rockers. Questions on this are where's the best place to get them? I know the motor is different in the 2000 from the 96-99. What kind of power can be expected from this mod on my 2000, and any difference in sound/exhaust note?

Any and all input/advise/information is appreciated.

Thanks everyone!!

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[BlackSnake99]

First mod I would do would be to unf**k those tinted angel-eye headlights.... But that's just me.

[Boosted Motorsports]

^ LOL

First thing I would do is a IPSCO short throw shifter. Makes the car 100x more pleasant to drive and a much more connected/precise feel. I'm going 3.73s on my car but haven't had a chance to toss in my new diff yet to give you my feedback. Most say 3.55s are a good balance but with your Gen V wheels you may be more opt to do 3.73s as well.

[dave6666]

Yes tinted lights look retarded. And on the rear are dangerous if you have those.

1.7's are worth 10 - 15 whp.

[mitchdob]

Hi jrdaly99. My 2 cents - I'd recommend that you work with someone like Dan Cragin as more important then the mods is the car be sorted correctly. I also have a 2000 (ACR). Having access to a (the) top Viper engineer in the country has been invaluable. As a note my ACR has been mod'd and sorted by Dan with:

- Heads/Cam: milled to 10:1 comp, lifters, valves, rods, etc...
- 1.7RR's: w/ modified valve covers for TD 1.7 rocker arm clearance
- Exhaust: Belanger/hiflow cats/sill heat shields & vents
- Suspension: shocks (rebuilt), sway bar caps, steering rack bushings, etc.
- IPSCO short throw shifter
- More.....

You should also consider:
- Upgrade your PS pump and pulley
- Gears: 3:54 (my mod)

Just my 2 cents. Having a car sorted is probably more important then the actual mods.
Feel free to IM me if you like to also talk.

[BrianACR]

I've been looking at 1.7 rockers too. There are a few sponsors who carry them. If a guy changes rockers, do you need to change the pushrods too? Or only if you do a cam??

[Ripper]

I did 1.7's to my first Gen II back in 2006.. Roe sold me the Jesel's along with custom length pushrods. This was for a 2002 GTS
Seem to help a little.. I honestly think if you are going to spend that kind of money , Upgrade the Diff along with adding 3.73's .. Absolute
biggest bang for the buck

[ViperRyan]

I did 1.7's to my first Gen II back in 2006.. Roe sold me the Jesel's along with custom length pushrods. This was for a 2002 GTS
Seem to help a little.. I honestly think if you are going to spend that kind of money , Upgrade the Diff along with adding 3.73's .. Absolute
biggest bang for the buck

How much did it run you to do the 1.7's? Did you notice difference in exhaust note?

For the diff/gears, I read that for 19" wheels the 3.55 was the most popular choice, what made you choose the 3.73's? Best place for gear/diff kit?

[Ripper]

How much did it run you to do the 1.7's? Did you notice difference in exhaust note?

For the diff/gears, I read that for 19" wheels the 3.55 was the most popular choice, what made you choose the 3.73's? Best place for gear/diff kit?

Cannot recall the price , but Jesel rockers are pricey.. was well over 2K !
Was very subtle on the exhaust note. Cannot recall if it actually made the car "lope" .. I don't think so. Again , this was my old 02' GTS.. was
stock other than that.


Ok , for gears. I have 3.55's in my GEN III ... car makes 640/640 at the wheels. Most think I was nuts for going with this gear choice and not
sticking with the 3.07's ..... If I had to do it again.. 3.73's without hesitation. (Car has 20in rears)

Now , for the B/W GEN II.. it has the unicorn , no longer available , 3.33's. It's nice , but , If I ever go inside the rear end for repairs , etc.
It will get a 3.73 as well. (Car has 19in rears)

It all truly depends on what type of driving you do most. If it's all highway , then you might want a 3.55
You will shift more often the lower you go and traction will be tested with the tires you currently have.

I am a "in town" driver and to me , the lower the better. Stoplight to Stoplight blasting is how I like it!

[ViperRyan]

Cannot recall the price , but Jesel rockers are pricey.. was well over 2K !
Was very subtle on the exhaust note. Cannot recall if it actually made the car "lope" .. I don't think so. Again , this was my old 02' GTS.. was
stock other than that.


Ok , for gears. I have 3.55's in my GEN III ... car makes 640/640 at the wheels. Most think I was nuts for going with this gear choice and not
sticking with the 3.07's ..... If I had to do it again.. 3.73's without hesitation. (Car has 20in rears)

Now , for the B/W GEN II.. it has the unicorn , no longer available , 3.33's. It's nice , but , If I ever go inside the rear end for repairs , etc.
It will get a 3.73 as well. (Car has 19in rears)

It all truly depends on what type of driving you do most. If it's all highway , then you might want a 3.55
You will shift more often the lower you go and traction will be tested with the tires you currently have.

I am a "in town" driver and to me , the lower the better. Stoplight to Stoplight blasting is how I like it!

Thanks for all the info, it really does help! Didn't know the rockers were that pricey, may hold off on that until I decide to do some other engine mods.

For the gears, I agree the lower you go the more shifting you'll do. I put in 3.73's in the back of my WS6 w/6spd and I love it. I was just going off what i've read other owners had recommended. The car will see he track maybe once or twice a year at charity events held at Road America. Other than that, it will be a car to enjoy, use the speed/power. Not planning on trying to reach the top speed, love acceleration!!

I can't remember where I got this, it was included in a long discussion of rear end gearing for Vipers
A*3.73*puts you at an effective 3.60*
-1st gear tops out at 49 mph
-2nd gear tops out at 73 mph
-3rd gear tops out at 100 mph
-4th gear tops out at 130 mph (Stock Viper traps at 118-120mph -top of 3rd gear)
-5th gear tops out at 176 mph*
-6th gear tops out at 260 mph (theoretical)
-200mph would arrive at 4,600 rpm in 6th - MIGHT be possible with Intake, Exhaust, HFC
A*3.55*puts you at an effective 3.43
-1st gear tops out at 51 mph
-2nd gear tops out at 77 mph
-3rd gear tops out at 105 mph
-4th gear tops out at 137 mph (Stock viper is 118-120)
-5th gear tops out at 184 mph
-6th gear tops out at 273 mph
-200mph would arrive at 4,400 rpm in 6th -which might not be possible without I/H/E or FI
A*3.31*Puts you at an effective 3.20
-1st gear tops out at 55 mph
-2nd gear tops out at 82 mph
-3rd gear tops out at 113 mph
-4th gear tops out at 151 mph
-5th gear tops out at 205 mph
-6th gear tops out at 303 mph
-200 mph would arrive at 5,900 rpm in 5th (*this may be attainable with air filters/smooth tubes)
The stock*3.07*Puts you at an effective 3.20
-1st gear tops out at 59 mph
-2nd gear tops out at 89 mph
-3rd gear tops out at 121 mph
-4th gear tops out at 158 mph
-5th gear tops out at 213 mph
-6th gear tops out at 316 mph
-200 mph would arrive at 5,600 rpm in 5th (*this is probably attainable with just air filters/smooth tubes)

[Geronimo]

^ LOL

First thing I would do is a IPSCO short throw shifter. Makes the car 100x more pleasant to drive and a much more connected/precise feel. I'm going 3.73s on my car but haven't had a chance to toss in my new diff yet to give you my feedback. Most say 3.55s are a good balance but with your Gen V wheels you may be more opt to do 3.73s as well.

I have 3:73's . Better choice.

[Vprbite]

I had 3.55 on my 02 and loved them. I had 19/18 on the car. Great around town but still driveable on long cruises.

[BrianACR]

You can get Harland Sharp 1.7 Rockers for under $700 if you shop around. Some of the sponsor vendors here also carry them. I'm trying to source some up here in Canada so I avoid the tax/duty/ridiculous exchange rate...

[99RT10]

I have a set of 3.55s, PM me. Don't listen to those A$$holes about your tinted headlights. They both have Vipers with multiple stickers on them. One even has painted hood vents. I mean really?!

[ViperRyan]

You can get Harland Sharp 1.7 Rockers for under $700 if you shop around. Some of the sponsor vendors here also carry them. I'm trying to source some up here in Canada so I avoid the tax/duty/ridiculous exchange rate...

Thanks for the info Brian, PM sent.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a set of 3.55s, PM me. Don't listen to those A$$holes about your tinted headlights. They both have Vipers with multiple stickers on them. One even has painted hood vents. I mean really?!

Thank you

PM sent!

[uvbnbit]

I think we paid $750 for the HS and push rods about 10 years ago.

[dave6666]

I did 1.7's to my first Gen II back in 2006.. Roe sold me the Jesel's along with custom length pushrods. This was for a 2002 GTS
Seem to help a little.. I honestly think if you are going to spend that kind of money , Upgrade the Diff along with adding 3.73's .. Absolute
biggest bang for the buck

Sadly, most people think "upgrading the diff" = changing gears.

No, changing gears does not upgrade anything to the diff. It just means you have different gears. If you want to "upgrade the diff," then put in a different one. Many of us are running aftermarket diffs. They are certainly an upgrade compared to the factory diff.

[Jack B]

Plus they are replacing a very iffy set of OEM rockers.

Yes tinted lights look retarded. And on the rear are dangerous if you have those.

1.7's are worth 10 - 15 whp.

[drewsss]

I have a set of 3.55s, PM me. Don't listen to those A$$holes about your tinted headlights. They both have Vipers with multiple stickers on them. One even has painted hood vents. I mean really?!

I happen to like my retarded tints. And my retarded black gas cap. And my retarded black wheels. And my retarded black splitter. And my retarded black TA spoiler.

Am I retarded or what? (Vprbite, don't answer that).

[hemihead]

You can get Harland Sharp 1.7 Rockers for under $700 if you shop around. Some of the sponsor vendors here also carry them. I'm trying to source some up here in Canada so I avoid the tax/duty/ridiculous exchange rate...

Yup, Harland Sharp roller rockers are right around $700 plus shipping and push rods, I just bought them and am in the process of installing them on my '02. You need to install them then measure the push rods and order the proper length. Chuck Tator told me he's found three different push rod lengths on those motors. Mine came up to 7.5" which apparently is the most common size.

[ViperRyan]

Yup, Harland Sharp roller rockers are right around $700 plus shipping and push rods, I just bought them and am in the process of installing them on my '02. You need to install them then measure the push rods and order the proper length. Chuck Tator told me he's found three different push rod lengths on those motors. Mine came up to 7.5" which apparently is the most common size.

Any reason why the HS are so much cheaper than the Jesel/T&D's? Do the HS come with push rods? So you're saying to install the rockers, measure, and then order push rods?

[ViperRyan]

I had 3.55 on my 02 and loved them. I had 19/18 on the car. Great around town but still driveable on long cruises.

What made you choose 3.55 over 3.73?

Sadly, most people think "upgrading the diff" = changing gears.

No, changing gears does not upgrade anything to the diff. It just means you have different gears. If you want to "upgrade the diff," then put in a different one. Many of us are running aftermarket diffs. They are certainly an upgrade compared to the factory diff.

Is a diff replacement necessary/better when swapping gears, or can the gears just be swapped out and run fine with current diff?

[hemihead]

Any reason why the HS are so much cheaper than the Jesel/T&D's? Do the HS come with push rods? So you're saying to install the rockers, measure, and then order push rods?

Why HS rockers cost less can be answered by others better than me, my guess is that Jesel/T&D's are likely for high horsepower applications than HS's are. HS's do not come with pushrods.

Both Chuck Tator and Roe Racing advised me to make sure to install one set of HS rockers, measure with an adjustable push rod ($20 at Jegs), then order your push rods. Chuck said that he has found at least three different size push rods in the Gen I & II blocks, he attributed the difference to the fact that the blocks are hand assembled. In Gen I & II Vipers the most common size push rods with HS rockers is 7.5" which is what mine turned out to be.

[ViperRyan]

Why HS rockers cost less can be answered by others better than me, my guess is that Jesel/T&D's are likely for high horsepower applications than HS's are. HS's do not come with pushrods.

Both Chuck Tator and Roe Racing advised me to make sure to install one set of HS rockers, measure with an adjustable push rod ($20 at Jegs), then order your push rods. Chuck said that he has found at least three different size push rods in the Gen I & II blocks, he attributed the difference to the fact that the blocks are hand assembled. In Gen I & II Vipers the most common size push rods with HS rockers is 7.5" which is what mine turned out to be.

That very well may be. Thank you for the input! I've read they add 15-20whp, did you find the rocker mod to be worth it? What year is your GenII? Mines a 2000, so curious if the exhaust tone would change a little?

[ACR_VP]

If you can wait like 2 months, I'll have my top end up for sale... Ported heads, td roller rockers, headers, etc... Did 525rwhp on stock cam, will be priced very fair. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.