How Difficult to Remove ACR E Wing

[Scott_in_fl]

Long time VCA member and prior Gen III owner. Just joined back up on the new site because thinking about getting into a Gen V. The Gen V seems to address all of the deficiencies from the prior gens that I cared about -- interior finish, cabin heat, overall build quality, ride.

But, I'm now caught between a GT or an ACR-E.

I'm no car collector, but I am likely to hold onto this for quite awhile. Indeed, I've been closely monitoring the Viper market for a few years and the FCA announcements about their plans to shut it down. I knew that I would wait until the final year to grab something. So, now is the time.

Obviously, the ACR is the collectible item. But, it's way too obnoxious and impractical for regular street use in my neck of the woods (Boca Raton, South Florida). I could pull it off in Indiana (where I went to school in Bloomington), or somewhere similar, but it's not going to work in a metro area.

Thus, the GT makes more sense. I've kept garage queens plenty of times before (in fact, my Gen III became one -- which is primarily why I sold it), but find that I get much more pleasure from driving the cars on a regular basis. My office is 5 mins from the house, and now I try to drive my '16 Z06 on a daily basis -- it's terrific. The problem is that it's not special -- either in the way that it looks (and it looks really good, but there are many out there), or in the way that it drives (and it drives really nice for a street, but it does not feel anything like a Viper, which feel much more like piloting a real race car).

I've had this crazy thought about purchasing a '17 ACR-E but removing some of the wild aero for regular street driving if I could easily put the aero back on for car events, or when I go to sell it. I don't really see me tracking the car, because (a) that doesn't really float my boat after having raced motorcycles for 20 years - I've had my speed fix and now cars all feel a bit, how do I say it nicely, boring on the track; and (b) I know I'll want to keep it as pristine as possible, not only because I like my cars always looking great and I'm anal about that stuff, but also to preserve its value.

Is this crazy? Is anyone else doing this -- i.e. removing all of the special ACRE parts and putting them in mothballs until you go to sell the car? I realize that I would likely have to add a TA spoiler to the rear and probably remove the dive planes in order to keep the car somewhat balanced, but I'm handy and feel confident that I could accomplish this without causing damage.

I assume there would be some holes on the decklid that I'd have to find a nice way of plugging.

We're looking at a difference in price of about $115k for the GT, to $140k for the ACRE. But, the way I see it, the ACRE is really the bargain for the extra $25k, what with all the additional carbon, brakes, etc. that you get with it. Plus, I think in the long run it makes sense to have it (if I keep it 5-10 years, or more). The GT likely depreciates, while the ACRE could likely appreciate.

Thoughts?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

This has come up before, there will probably be a lot of opinions about removing the wing. Basically do this at your own risk if you think you'll be driving at higher speeds without the aero on. Definitely install the aero for the track or similar events.

You are going to have really stiff springs, which you might be OK with.
If you remove the rear wing and canards you'll have holes in the body work (I would personally leave the canards, they are rivited on). Maybe you could cover with matched vinyl.
The TA spoiler attached via adhesive FYI, so not necessarily an easy off/on.

The next is speculating if the extra money up front, insurance, etc. etc. will be worth the return on investment in 5+ years. There will be many more opinions on this as well.

I would also think a TA might be good to consider, it might hold value well and get the car that is probably more along the lines of you want without the hassle of removing things.

Lastly you might consider buying the items you desire from the ACR on the aftermarket or from those who have removed them (shocks / springs are in the classifieds; there is a thread on brakes but that would be pricey).

Searching the existing threads you'll find some on both topics. At the end of the day research and do what makes sense to you!

[SharpMan]

I'd imagine the best course of action is to just get another rear hatch without the wing (maybe with a TA spoiler) and switch them as you please.

I don't think there's anything to worry about safety-wise at legal speeds.

[EZ 2B Green]

Buying an ACR-E and then neutering it for street use doesn't make any sense to me. My .02.

[Dman]

You're pondering is wise.

I agree on considering all cost of ownership though in your calcs. Tires and wheels are also limited.

As for aero. Contrary to internet banter, you'd be fine running around without the wing. I wouldn't worry about canards, they're not downforce anyway, they're vertex inducers to draw air from the wheel wells. If you keep the vents in vs out you transfer 30lbs around.

Remember you also can set the rear wing in position 1 for less resistance. This is even recommended by SRT for faster tracks so as to not limit top end as much. Or if you have under steer, then move the wing to position 1. The car is so rear biased on down force, there's a ton to play with.

I'm leaning toward a TA due to wanting to spend about $15k in mods and mostly street driving.

Good thoughts though. I think the biggest challenge as posted about will be suspension. It's so much stiffer. The VE setup may be a highly desired mod for a street king snake.

[Scott_in_fl]

Dman, you bring up the other, very good consideration -- spend the savings on other mods.

For the $25k difference, I have to imagine that one could acquire the VE suspension and purchase a crate motor to mod. This is something I've thought about doing more than a few times, but never really pursued it. I'd hate to mod the stock motor on what could be the last Viper ever, because that not only kills the warranty but it also kills the resale. Most people buying 2017's to hold onto are all saying that they're going to keep their cars stock. Well, that's great for the first year or two, but then what?

If I can reasonably purchase a crate motor and build it properly with the Arrow H/C kit and some other doo-dads, I'd think I could get to a 700+ whp number. That would also go a long way towards keeping the car relevant in the future (i.e. add some turbos later). We know Ford is coming with their GT500 with at least 700 at the crank, and GM will answer with a similar Corvette eventually, etc. etc. It would be nice if we keep an upgrade path for ourselves so that I can stop buying the latest and greatest

Then, when it comes time to sell, pull out the stock, low mile motor and you still have a numbers matching car that should have some good value.

So, what do crate motors go for? And what would it cost to build one correctly (i.e. forged internals)?

[Dman]

Meh, I'm the wrong one to ask on that one. I've had too many vipers over too many years to think it would EVER be worth dropping $25k on a crate and $10k on mods just to shelve the stocker for future value. I don't see gen5's taking a FGT path in value, so my take would be that itds be a total waste of money and time, and in fact you'd have an unproven low mile original motor that could blow or fail in 100 miles, many speculate that higher mile cars with stockers would be worth more as they'd be less likely to die but no guarantee. You can get to 700rwhp easily and a year warranty from a place like Calvo, in fact IMO a car done by him would be worth more, as he takes numerous precautions in mitigating the spun bearing failure situation. We see ACRs now in resale at $20k discounts already and they're not even a year old, there've been a couple of ACRs at $10k off sticker and with H/C pkgs at 670rwhp, that's a serious bargain (I've been just a hair too late on those to buy). So who knows what it'll be like in 20-30 years, but I'm not planning on that, that's a life time away, better ways to invest than in viper futures, haha.

[Scott_in_fl]

I'm with you. I don't think it's FGT path either. And as stated in my original post, I'm no car collector and I'm certainly not going to consider a Viper as an investment If it turns out well 5 or 10 years from now, and if I still have it, then great. If not, oh well.

I guess I was under the (perhaps false) assumption that a crate motor should cost around $7,500 and then I could drop $10k into it to make it something much more robust and kick out 700+ at the wheel pretty easily. If it's going to be more than that, then I agree it's not worth it. Just have Calvo do some good work and hope that it doesn't destroy resale (which we really can't predict -- even though history typically shows that stock, untouched cars will pull better resale down the road than any modded car, regardless of who performed the mods).

[Dr.Ron]

Buying an ACR-E and then neutering it for street use doesn't make any sense to me. My .02.

"Neutering it" made me laugh out loud. You're right in that description though!

It sounds like the OP would be better suited in a GTS, or a TA (in between the GTS & an ACR).

Ron

[Martin]

Back to the bare-bones original question - it's not difficult at all to remove the rear wing. I believe it's just a matter of getting to the bolts under the hatch, and unscrewing them. You'll have holes in your rear decklid that you'll want to plug (it's a natural area for water to pool up), but other than that I believe you can theoretically swap the wing on and off in a matter of minutes once you get the system down.

[darbgnik]

If you're going to put all the aero in a box for later, I'd toss the suspension in the same box, and find something a little more street friendly to use in the meantime.

[Boosted Motorsports]

So, what do crate motors go for? And what would it cost to build one correctly (i.e. forged internals)?

Internals are forged and built to handle more HP from the factory. Cam, head-work, etc would start to give you more power without forced induction.

I still think you would be better suited to get one of the more street oriented versions though from what you described. If you aren't going to really see any track use I think the ACR would be overkill and the other models have more creature comforts. Why not a TA? It's more of a crossbreed...

[Vegaskid]

As others have said, you may be better with a non acr version of you're going to use it on the street for a prolonged time.
I've had the z06 and now the acr and can tell you there is a huge difference in comfort and general driveability on the street.
Do a test drive first and Good luck.