What would you do ACR vs TA decision

[Terminator02]

Well, the ACR technically only broke lap records all over America, not the world, as that's where they ran it.

Although I do believe it would set records elsewhere if they decided to bring it across the pond.

But, this is the first time I have read the word juxtapose on these boards used correctly, so that's a win!

This thread is funny. And I'm not helping, but then again it was off the rails before I posted anyway. Sorry Dman!

No this is fine, Dman still is deciding anyway. I found the thread helpful as it convinced me to breakdown and learn where the ignore feature is. Since it's winter in Michigan, i made a mental juxtaposition with another member who never had a Viper and it really made me miss what I have in my garage!

[Ricketts]

Personally, I'd go ACR-E. Its the meanest of the mean/best of the best Viper and that is always a appealing factor of any object.

Lol.......arguing about Viper future values "down the road".
That's one long damn road seeing as 25 years later the original's are worth peanuts relatively speaking.

Agreed, not sure how/why the big influx of Viper "collectors" is. But, seems like thats all this newer crowd posts/worries about. When I joined Viper crowd years ago it was all about enjoying the cars.....

No disrespect to OP in above statement.

[Bruce H.]

Agreed, not sure how/why the big influx of Viper "collectors" is. But, seems like thats all this newer crowd posts/worries about. When I joined Viper crowd years ago it was all about enjoying the cars.....

When new Gen's of any model come out a lot of existing owners really struggle with the outlay to buy the latest and greatest, which can easily be double the value of their current pride and joy. That results in a range of predictable reactions, both for and against trading up, and a natural one is to rationalize the added cost of moving up as somehow fiscally prudent. A huge portion of Viper owners are afraid to track or put miles on their cars to protect their values. The end of Viper production adds to the equation.

At the opposite extreme you have new owners buying the latest and driving them straight to the track and modifying them how they like because the car's value is not much of a concern.

Nothing new going on here that you don't see everywhere else.

[PTP]

I'd say if you are undecided and the budget allows, get the ACR-E. If you change your mind after owning it for a while you can always trade down in the future.

I had a similar choice when I was getting mine, but went with a barely used 2.0 as it fit my needs. The extra money on an ACR-E wasn't going to make me any happier. But considering you seem stuck between the two, the chance of buyers remorse by not getting an ACR-E seem higher.

[NT-ACR]

The P1 had more down force and almost 260+hp more than the ACR-E yet it lost to the ACR-E by about 2 secs at Laguna. So I would think your statement would be heavily influenced by the track you are running both on.

As usual, people don't do any research and just spout out data that supports their points whether it is true or not.

First and foremost, the P1 does not produce more "downforce" (yes, this is the correct spelling) than an ACR-E. Here are the facts:

ACR-E- 1,710 pounds of downforce at 177 mph
P1- 600 kilograms (~1,323 pounds) of downforce at 161 mph

All in, the P1 develops a whopping 600kg of downforce at 160mph - it would be pointless, McLaren points out, to have such downforce at the car’s 218mph top speed.

‘We set the aerodynamic targets very early,’ explains Dan Parry-Williams, McLaren’s chief design engineer. ‘We looked at race cars and worked out what was possible. We targeted 600kg of downforce, and we wanted it around the speed that we’ve got it [from 161mph]. Of course, the problem with downforce is that you can have too much of it – if you double the speed you quadruple the aerodynamic downforce and you soon reach a point where you’ve got more than you can handle. That’s the great thing about active aerodynamics – we can just shed that downforce and manage it at high speed. And we can manage the dynamics of the car through a corner – we can change the aero balance depending on whether you’re in the braking phase or mid-corner or accelerating out.’

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...per-acr-drive/
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/gene...ion-mclaren-p1
http://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/laferra...rcars-stack-up

As for why the P1 was slower at Laguna than the ACR, it's a combination of things.

1. Laguna is not a big speed track, so the P1 couldn't take advantage of its additional power.

2. The P1 can't effectively deploy the power it has in low speed corners. A major part of this is the 305/30R20 tires (the same width as a 991 GT3 which "only" has 475 hp) but possibly the open diff as well. Just look at the difference in tire sizes:

P1- 903 hp fed to 245/35R19 93Y; 305/30R20 103Y Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R
ACR- 645 hp fed to 295/25ZR19 90Y; 355/30ZR19 99Y Kumho Ecsta V720 ACR

LaFerrari- 950 hp fed to 265/30R19 93Y; 345/30R20 106Y Pirelli P Zero Corsa
918- 887 hp fed to 265/35R20 95Y; 325/30R21 104Y Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
Z06 Z07- 650 hp fed to 285/30R19 94Y; 335/25R20 99Y Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
GT3 RS (991)- 500 hp fed to 265/35ZR20 99Y; 325/30ZR21 108Y Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 N1

In short, additional power is only effective if you are able to consistently utilize it.

[NT-ACR]

The ACR will be worth MUCH more money down the road. I think this car will be similar to the Ford GT at some point.
But the TA 2.0 with Calvo's heads/cams would not only get you faster lap times than the ACR, but would be a much better street car. Best of both worlds.

Mod question. Can we have an auto comment feature that automatically posts something about how the Viper will take off in value just like the Ford GT did each time someone mentions future Viper values?

Geez. At first it was mildly amusing. Now, I think people are just delusional. They're both American and have a manual transmission. That's it.

[Special Ed]

Mod question. Can we have an auto comment feature that automatically posts something about how the Viper will take off in value just like the Ford GT did each time someone mentions future Viper values?

Geez. At first it was mildly amusing. Now, I think people are just delusional. They're both American and have a manual transmission. That's it.

What he said!!!!!!!

[Blue T/A 2.0]

TA if most of your driving will be on street. ACRE if you want to track it more than street. I had an ACR previously and it was a nightmare on the street if it was cold or rain was anywhere near. That could have been changed with different tires though. My TA is great on the street except for front splitter clearance issues. I would have bought an ACRE if they were available when I ordered my TA. While I have not tracked my TA, I did track one of Bondurants TAs and it did a great job on the track, I can't speak about an ACRE since I have not driven one. Good luck either way.

[NT-ACR]

I figured you'd get defensive. Unfortunately, facts are facts. The TA was a rushed effort to beat the C6 ZR1, nothing iconic about it. When you juxtapose it with the ACR, which set records all over the world as the final result of 25 years of Viper engineering, the difference is clear. You're simply high if you think TAs are going to be worth more than ACRs down the line, not that it matters much anyway as only an idiot would buy a Viper as a long term investment - this has been proven time and time again. Ask all the guys with the "iconic" blue and white coupes they stuck away only to be unable to even get close to the car's original msrp 20 years on.

Save me the comments about streetability blah blah, Viper owners are a unique bunch that want fast, badass, uncompromising cars. It's been like that since day 1. The ACR speaks to the core Viper contingent more than any other model and that's why they will hold their value better down the road. The ACR injected interest back into this car.

You sound like vette owners that bragged and bragged about lap times until the ACR crapped on them and then the convo switched to "oh mine rides better and i can take it on long trips" lol

Let me guess, your member is also 15 inches at its resting state, world leaders consult you for advice, and models dream of being with you.

[Vegaskid]

If anyone is buying a viper for future value you're nuts.
My guess is most folks who can afford an acr will not have some life changing experience if they make 30 0r 50 k on a car sitting in their garage 20 years from now. Nobody in their right mind is thinking this will be worth half a mil do they?
Buy the car and drive it. If you want to make money than drop a mil or 2 on something that's actually rare and has a proven track record for selling at auction.

[Racingswh]

I bought mine purely as an investment.

I hope the yellowing rocker panels from exhaust heat, the ground away diffuser strakes, the chips in the paint, the oil leak and the dings in the wheels from mounting slicks all season don't really detract much from it's value.

[SharpMan]

I bought mine purely as an investment.

I hope the yellowing rocker panels from exhaust heat, the ground away diffuser strakes, the chips in the paint, the oil leak and the dings in the wheels from mounting slicks all season don't really detract much from it's value.

They add to it. Provenance and patina ;-)

[LABrit]

I bought mine purely as an investment.

I hope the yellowing rocker panels from exhaust heat, the ground away diffuser strakes, the chips in the paint, the oil leak and the dings in the wheels from mounting slicks all season don't really detract much from it's value.

Haha

[ViperDC]

Let me guess, your member is also 15 inches at its resting state, world leaders consult you for advice, and models dream of being with you.

Pretty spot on, good job kid

- - - Updated - - -

No this is fine, Dman still is deciding anyway. I found the thread helpful as it convinced me to breakdown and learn where the ignore feature is. Since it's winter in Michigan, i made a mental juxtaposition with another member who never had a Viper and it really made me miss what I have in my garage!

Easier to put me on ignore than get owned again. Smart move.

[Dman]

Well, just confirmed my strategy and advice received have been debunked. So much for the block washing station theory of a safe engine. Bearings in 2017 ACR with 100 miles needed replacing and crank work. So now I know. Build date doesn't matter. And I need rebuild dollars factored into my buy no matter what. Also clears up which way I'll go for mods, knowing the bottom end will need attention, I'll not be doing a bolt on FI, but rather go after the engine itself NA for hp. Not what I was hoping for, but it is at least a resolution for me. No impact really for keeping a 100% stock car of course, but that's not me.

[swexlin]

Well, just confirmed my strategy and advice received have been debunked. So much for the block washing station theory of a safe engine. Bearings in 2017 ACR with 100 miles needed replacing and crank work. So now I know. Build date doesn't matter. And I need rebuild dollars factored into my buy no matter what. Also clears up which way I'll go for mods, knowing the bottom end will need attention, I'll not be doing a bolt on FI, but rather go after the engine itself NA for hp. Not what I was hoping for, but it is at least a resolution for me. No impact really for keeping a 100% stock car of course, but that's not me.

Where did you hear about the 2017?

[Snorman]

I bought mine purely as an investment.

I hope the yellowing rocker panels from exhaust heat, the ground away diffuser strakes, the chips in the paint, the oil leak and the dings in the wheels from mounting slicks all season don't really detract much from it's value.

Well played, sir. Well played...
S.

[Dman]

Where did you hear about the 2017?

From one of the best out there, Antonio.

[Arizona Vipers]

Mod question. Can we have an auto comment feature that automatically posts something about how the Viper will take off in value just like the Ford GT did each time someone mentions future Viper values?

Geez. At first it was mildly amusing. Now, I think people are just delusional. They're both American and have a manual transmission. That's it.

Hey when I bought my GT in 2011 for $129K, I told people it was going to go way up in value and they should buy as well. Nobody listened. lol.
The GT and Gen 5 production numbers are very similar, but way more GT's were sold than ACR's.

[Arizona Vipers]

I bought mine purely as an investment.

I hope the yellowing rocker panels from exhaust heat, the ground away diffuser strakes, the chips in the paint, the oil leak and the dings in the wheels from mounting slicks all season don't really detract much from it's value.

Sounds like my ACR after only a few events
I don't have the yellowing sills yet though, but my Suntek melted the first session. What color is your car?

[Terminator02]

From one of the best out there, Antonio.

Yup I heard about this as well. I do hope this closes all this "well I have X car so I am safe" because all cars are at-risk. I think you need to just figure out your budget and go for it. I know my 2014 HC TA is not taking a drop of oil and looks great every time I look at it and it's build is around many engine failures. Nothing on my oil filter, no problems with the mods. The guys that did the HC work at VE said that this car looked "one of the best" when I spoke to Andy before buying the car in Ohio. It won't hurt to have some expert eyes looking over your car but it's also no guarantee as it's a big engine and debris is tiny. I don't worry at all anymore and I think once you commit to the vehicle, you will feel much better. You just have to realize that there is NO guarantee.

[NT-ACR]

Hey when I bought my GT in 2011 for $129K, I told people it was going to go way up in value and they should buy as well. Nobody listened. lol.
The GT and Gen 5 production numbers are very similar, but way more GT's were sold than ACR's.

Wow. 1 car and you're suddenly an expert.

[Bruce H.]

If you want to buy a Gen V and mod the engine, thereby eliminating your engine warranty, but still want to have confidence about the engine's fitness...buy a used one with some miles on it.

Any used ACR with a few thousand on it should give you that, and I don't even recall any TA's with failures after the initial run of some of the orange ones in 2014 that had the R28 recalls. I haven't heard of one since that has failed, and a lot have seen track use to further prove their durability. Quite possible there have been a couple, but there's a lot of track rats running TA's and ACR's that haven't had the engine issues. Maybe that's the key...tracking your Viper is good for it!!!

[ViperGeorge]

If you want to buy a Gen V and mod the engine, thereby eliminating your engine warranty, but still want to have confidence about the engine's fitness...buy a used one with some miles on it.

Any used ACR with a few thousand on it should give you that, and I don't even recall any TA's with failures after the initial run of some of the orange ones in 2014 that had the R28 recalls. I haven't heard of one since that has failed, and a lot have seen track use to further prove their durability. Quite possible there have been a couple, but there's a lot of track rats running TA's and ACR's that haven't had the engine issues. Maybe that's the key...tracking your Viper is good for it!!!

I believe this is correct. Running the car hard on the track will either cause it to fail quickly or it will show the car is rock solid. My TA runs like a top. Still think the key is changing the oil at least every 3,000 miles and if you track it using 15/50 Mobil 1.

[ddominator1]

well.... my car says it alll!! TA )