Why bleed the brakes!!!!

[pony23]

So I am working on upgrading the brakes on the car. Powder coated and rebuilt the calipers, stainless lines, new Hawk HPS pads, and new Baer Erradispeed rotors are all going on. Figured that I would also bleed out all of the fluid and add new. The car is 10 years old still with the original fluid.

Here is the proof. Look at this nasty old fluid, it's dirty and you can see the water droplets floating on the top of it. Yuck!!!!! Hard to believe there is only 22k miles on it. That equals crappy performance in the most important part of the car.

[01sapphirebob]

Thats crazy. Good advice I took for The Wizard a while ago...Change all fluids every three years regardless of mileage. If tracking the car. Should be done after each track event. I make sure I get the fluids done regularly now. "Cheap" insurance.

[J TNT]

Brake Fliud is hydroscopic , and picks up 2 to 3% of moisture a year , regardless of mileage !

[Leslie]

Thats crazy. Good advice I took for The Wizard a while ago...Change all fluids every three years regardless of mileage. If tracking the car. Should be done after each track event. I make sure I get the fluids done regularly now. "Cheap" insurance.

omg ! What he said
I probably changed out fluids more than I needed to on my GTS, but to me it was worth it!

[pony23]

Yeah, I just picked the car up in the fall. Changing all the fluids and doing a complete tune up over the winter months. It needs it.

[St.Char]

Yeah, I just picked the car up in the fall. Changing all the fluids and doing a complete tune up over the winter months. It needs it.

Bernie, PM me with the bleeder kit you are using. Doing mine soon...

[Sybil TF]

Brake Fliud is hydroscopic , and picks up 2 to 3% of moisture a year , regardless of mileage !

Not if you have silicone race fluid like mine.

[whitebeard]

Informational post only....Just had some time on my hands and I am a science geek.

http://www.mossmotoring.com/conventi...e-brake-fluid/

Silicone fluids, in addition to having high boiling points and being non-hygroscopic, do not damage paint as do glycol fluids. This is of particular importance in regard to show cars where a spill or leak of glycol fluid can have seriously ugly results. There are, however, some disadvantages to silicone fluids. They are slightly compressible, particularly near the higher end of their temperature range. While this is of absolutely no consequence for normal street use, this is why silicone fluids are not used in race cars. (Conversely, racing hydraulic fluids should not be used in street cars. This is because, although racing brake fluids have high dry boiling points, most are highly hygroscopic, and have relatively very low wet boiling points. They would probably work extremely well if you were to change the fluid every week or so.) Because air bubbles do not regularly dissipate in silicone brake fluid, special care must be used to prevent them from forming during pouring and bleeding operations. The best way to bleed a silicone fluid system is with an Eezibleed Kit (Moss #386-860). Lacking that, bleed with slow pedal strokes, avoiding “pumping” the pedal. It may be necessary to bleed the system again in a day or so if there were any air bubbles which wouldn’t bleed out the first time.

http://highwaymarket.lk/vip/112-brake-fluid

Most automotive professionals agree that glycol-based brake fluid, (DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 5.1) should be flushed, or changed, every 1–2 years under non-racing conditions. Many manufacturers also require periodic fluid changes to ensure reliability and safety. Once installed, moisture diffuses into the fluid through brake hoses and rubber seals and, eventually, the fluid will have to be replaced when the water content becomes too high. Electronic testers and test strips are commercially available to measure moisture content, however moisture test strips were taken off the market because they absorb moisture in the air before they can be used. The corrosion inhibitors also degrade over time. Degraded inhibitors cause corrosion in the braking system. The first metal to corrode is copper. You can determine when it is time to replace brake fluid when copper ions hit 200ppm.^[3] New fluid should always be stored in a sealed container to avoid moisture intrusion. DOT 5 is silicone fluid and the above does not apply. Ideally, silicone fluid should be used only to fill non-ABS systems that have not been previously filled with glycol based fluid. Any system that has used glycol based fluid will contain moisture; glycol fluid disperses the moisture throughout the system and contains corrosion inhibitors. Silicone fluid does not allow moisture to enter the system, but does not disperse any that is already there, either. A system filled from dry with silicone fluid does not require the fluid to be changed at intervals, only when the system has been disturbed for a component repair or renewal. The United States armed forces have standardized on silicone brake fluid since the 1990s. Silicone fluid is used extensively in cold climate, particularly in Russia and Finland.


http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml

http://adlersantiqueautos.com/articles/brake2.html

[Steve M]

Bernie, PM me with the bleeder kit you are using. Doing mine soon...

I've used a Motive Power Bleeder with success...I like being able to do it as a one man operation.

Lots of ways to skin this cat though.

[pony23]

I've used a Motive Power Bleeder with success...I like being able to do it as a one man operation.

Lots of ways to skin this cat though.

I used the same thing. Works great.

I also have the Mityvac but I don't like it that much. Hard to tell when the air comes out with it. It pulls air from around the bleeder threads.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Not if you have silicone race fluid like mine.

YIKES !! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! Do read what WHITEBEARD so geekily shared......

Remember this rule of thumb: SILICONE is for Breasts, not BRAKES !!! OK IN YOUR GRAMMMA's OLDMOBILE ONLY

[Sybil TF]

YIKES !! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! What WHITEBEARD so geekily shared......

Remember this rule of thumb: SILICONE is for Breasts, not BRAKES !!! OK IN YOUR GRAMMMA's OLDMOBILE ONLY

Car stops really good! No mushy pedal. Tight. And remember, I don't have ABS.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I wont go into the science of hygroscopic fluids, (see whitebeard above) but short answer is this for a high performance uses:

Silicone is Good Cold. Bad Hot.

[Sybil TF]

but short answer is this for a high performance uses:

[/B]

No,street use but I do drive like a bat out of hell!

For some reason a lot of crapvette guys use it. Hmmmm, maybe I should reconsider....

[Revolution]

Is there a better way to bleed the clutch on the Gen 4 or did I miss something? Doesn't seem like a nipple to get a hose on like the brakes etc?

[plumcrazy]

i still say brakes are over rated LOL

[XSnake]

I wont go into the science of hygroscopic fluids, (see whitebeard above) but short answer is this for a high performance uses:

Silicone is Good Cold. Bad Hot.

JonB, the Castrol SRF is Silicone Dot 5 IIRC. That's what 99% of the pro teams use. Higher boiling point and no moisture. That's what I run and all my problems went away, haven't been able to boil this stuff yet.

YOU CANNOT MIX THE SRF WITH ANYTING, FULL FLUSH REQUIRED

[Sybil TF]

JonB, the Castrol SRF is Silicone Dot 5 IIRC.

Just went through my fluids item list that original owner of my car gave me. This is what I have. So I guess I'm ok.

[Sybil TF]

i still say brakes are over rated LOL

That's what Dodge thought when they made the gen 1,2 Vipers....

[daytonprowler]

I'd been using ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid in the Shelby Mustang. It was nice that you could alternate the blue and amber when you changed the brake fluid. I just read that in August the Feds decided that after 15 years on the market, since Super Blue is actually blue in color, it can't be sold in the USA anymore. Fed standards state that brake fluid must be clear or amber in color. It took them 15 years to realize it was blue.

[XSnake]

Just went through my fluids item list that original owner of my car gave me. This is what I have. So I guess I'm ok.

Yep, best stuff you can buy.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I'd been using ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid in the Shelby Mustang. It was nice that you could alternate the blue and amber when you changed the brake fluid. I just read that in August the Feds decided that after 15 years on the market, since Super Blue is actually blue in color, it can't be sold in the USA anymore. Fed standards state that brake fluid must be clear or amber in color. It took them 15 years to realize it was blue.

Speaking as a past tech-inspector, I cringed to see a reservoir underhood that looked dark or blackish. With SuperBlue, thay all 'looked bad' and I had to interview the driver/crew to see if it was SuperBlue. Some drivers put a sticker on the reservoir to eliminate doubt.

[Steve M]

JonB, the Castrol SRF is Silicone Dot 5 IIRC. That's what 99% of the pro teams use. Higher boiling point and no moisture. That's what I run and all my problems went away, haven't been able to boil this stuff yet.

YOU CANNOT MIX THE SRF WITH ANYTING, FULL FLUSH REQUIRED

I don't think you are recalling correctly...Castrol SRF is not a DOT 5, it is a very high boiling point (dry and wet both) DOT 4 fluid. It can be mixed with other fluids, but it is not recommended since it will only serve to greatly reduce its wet boiling point properties, which is its main selling point.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...s/SRF_B768.pdf

[Steve M]

Is there a better way to bleed the clutch on the Gen 4 or did I miss something? Doesn't seem like a nipple to get a hose on like the brakes etc?

It is a messy job regardless of how you do it...the bleeder allows fluid to escape from the end AND around the threads, so inevitably some will leak into the bellhousing and out through the bottom slot.

Just put a drip pan underneath the car and let the fluid flow wherever it wants, and then clean it up with brake cleaner after you are done. I've used a pressure bleeder with success...others prefer a MityVac or the old fashioned "have a helper pump" method.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I verified the Castrol SRF specs to be as Steve noted. NOT SILICONE.