URGENT VINS needed for cars denied engine warranties

[ViperGeorge]

I sent the following email to Sergio, Tim, and other senior FCA execs about 20 minutes ago. I just received a call (very quick response) from someone there that told me they are now looking into this issue. He seemed to be genuinely concerned about what was going on. He asked if I could give him the VINs of the cars whose engine warranties have been declined due to the Arrow Controller. Please PM me with your VINs if you have had an engine warranty denied because of the Arrow Controller and I will get back to him. Might not turn into anything but my view has always been that some lower level person in Warranty is making these decisions. I cannot imagine the really senior people would accept the trade offs. The extremely quick response by phone says something.

George


10:13 AM (2 hours ago)

to sergio.marchio., sergio.marchio., Scott.Garberdi., Tim.Kunisk., bob.lee
Dear sir:

I have been a loyal Chyrsler group customer since 1998 when I purchased my first Viper. I currently own three Vipers (2008,2014, and a 2015). I also own a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited, a 2015 Dodge Challenger RT, and I lease a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT/8. Over the years I have owned a total of 7 Vipers, all bought new, and countless Jeeps.

My loyalty to Chrysler is not unusual for Viper owners, in fact it is the norm. Prior to owning my first Viper I would only buy Ford vehicles. The Viper ownership experience coupled with the world wide Viper club changed me into a Chrysler (now FCA) consumer. However recently I have begun to question my continued support of FCA products.

You may know that some Viper owners choose to modify their cars to make them even more personal. Some of the changes are cosmetic while others improve performance. In my case, I added vinyl stripes to my 15 Viper to make it stand out more. Others have changes suspensions or added engine controllers developed by Arrow. Arrow has had a very close working relationship with the Dodge Viper for decades. In fact Dick Winkles, who was formerly SRT's power train engineer now works for Arrow after retiring from SRT. Dick was responsible for engine development in the Generation 5 Viper.

Dick did development work on the revised engine controller while at SRT and was asked by SRT leaders to continue its development when he joined Arrow. This controller is sold by FCA dealers and installed by FCA techs. Dick swears the engine controller is safe for the engine and he should know since he designed both.

As you know there has been a problem with several Viper engines spinning bearings or doing other damage due to debris left over from the manufacturing process. The R28 customer care program was created in an attempt to identify engines that had debris in them. Unfortunately it was not a foolproof test and some engines continued to fail after they passed R28. As a result FCA extended warranty coverage for all cars effected by R28. Although it is not clear to many of us Viper owners whether R28 actually covered all cars with potential issues. For the most part FCA has replaced these engines under warranty although getting warranty approval often has taken weeks.

Recently three engines have failed in cars owned by Viper club members and their warranties have been denied because there was a mismatch between the mileage on the odometer and the engine controller (PCM). FCA states this is because they had the Arrow controller installed and that it caused the engine to fail. Many techs and engineers (including Dick Winkles) have examined the bearings and have concluded the failed due to debris in the block. When bearings fail they leave telltales as to the nature of the failure. The Arrow controller did not cause these engines to fail.

The Magnusson-Moss Act prohibits manufacturers from denying warranty claims due to aftermarket parts unless they can show the aftermarket part caused the failure in question. In these cases this has not been done. In fact because of known issues with the Viper block as evidenced by the R28 program, the addition of a new block cleaning station at CAAP, and the fact that bone stock engines are failing in the exact same way every Viper owner knows the controller was not involved in the failure.

None the less, FCA's refusal to honor the engine warranty when they know the failure was caused by debris leftover from the manufacturing process is disheartening to all of us Viper owners regardless of whether our cars have failed or whether they have been modified. I am fortunate in that my engines appear to be good but many, many people are concerned over the problems our "Viper Brothers' are having.

Given the warranty denials several folks have now cancelled orders for other FCA products including Vipers, Jeeps and Rams. I myself am now debating an upgrade to an ACR but I too am worried that FCA will look for any reason to deny a warranty claim. This is so unlike the Chrysler company we used to know, a company that treated their top customers well. Viper owners have been some of Chrysler's top customers and now because of the decisions of some lower level warranty manager much of this is being called into question.

FCA would have been better off fixing the three engines that were denied warranty work as a customer accommodation especially since there is no proof the Arrow controller had anything to do with the failure. This would be like saying my vinyl stripes added too much weight to the car and caused the engine to fail. Now all that has happened is that FCA is losing orders on new cars and getting people to sell existing vehicles. Through FCA's action the value of our purchases has also dropped materially. I want to reiterate that those folks that chose to install an Arrow controller did so based on the recommendation of an FCA dealer. There was never an indication that FCA would suddenly not stand behind the warranty on the engine when everyone knows the controller had nothing to do with the failures. I truly feel bad for those folks.

I am writing you to bring these issues to your attention. Most of us Viper owners want FCA to exceed but we are afraid recent actions taken on warranties are putting our relationships at risk and is driving the value of the cars we love down the tubes. If you think I have over stated this you can read much of this on the Viper club's website "driveviper.com". There are countless threads with some pretty upset current and future FCA customers. Someone should look into this at a senior level and to the right thing.

Thanks for listening,

George Bxxxxxxx

[swexlin]

Very, very well written. Kudos to you sir. Let's hope it gets somewhere.

[ViperGeorge]

Very, very well written. Kudos to you sir. Let's hope it gets somewhere.

Thanks, Hopefully I can get the VINs.

[DZnutz]

nicely done

[AZTVR]

Thanks, Hopefully I can get the VINs.

Have you PM'ed the three people that are known in this forum to be directly affected?

[BJG32]

Thank you George. I am extremely surprised you got a response. You are absolutely correct about it costing sales. I personally decided to not buy a new Alfa Romeo 4c spyder for my wife because of this exact issue. We just upgraded her daily driver to a Mercedes instead.

[ViperGeorge]

Have you PM'ed the three people that are known in this forum to be directly affected?

Can you remind me who they are and I will?

[AZTVR]

Can you remind me who they are and I will?

SACA
Disc
dhx


Very good of you to be doing this !

[Dr.Ron]

Well done!
Disc, dhx & 1 other that I cannot recall.

[ViperGeorge]

SACA
Disc
dhx


Very good of you to be doing this !

Thanks, I sent them PMs. I also PM'd Flatout (Andy) as he may know. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy so I'm hoping maybe I've reached someone that actually gives a shit.

[ViperPete]

George.... you have a a really weird last name.

Other than that, the letter is very well written and it certainly captures the thoughts and feelings of a lot of people here.

Bravo!

[mnc2886]

Very well done George!! Hope they come through on my claim too.

[FLATOUT]

Thanks, I sent them PMs. I also PM'd Flatout (Andy) as he may know. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy so I'm hoping maybe I've reached someone that actually gives a shit.

I wish you the best my friend, but I have been on a call with atleast one of the execs you have listed in your opening post so I can promise you the guy making the final decision is well aware of the situation.

But I, like you, am an eternal optimist

Andy

[ViperGeorge]

I wish you the best my friend, but I have been on a call with atleast one of the execs you have listed in your opening post so I can promise you the guy making the final decision is well aware of the situation.

But I, like you, am an eternal optimist

Andy

I hear you but it is different hearing from other customers that have not yet had their warranties denied. At least I hope so. You remember when Chrysler was talking about selling off the Viper or closing it down during the financial crisis? I drafted a petition and had hundreds of Viper owners sign it. I Fedex'd it to Sergio and other leaders there. Got a call on that too. The guy was in the marketing department and he told me that it was getting real attention within the company. He said it was giving those Execs that supported Viper more ammunition to keep it. He said Execs were taking notice and were surprised that so many folks had stepped up and signed the petition. They knew that if 200 people signed on there were probably many more that would have had the same views. Whether that petition helped save Viper or not is hard to know but it must have had an impact. Again, at least I like to think it did. Power of the pen you know.

If anyone else wants to write in I give you the email addresses of the senior people. Actually pretty easy to figure out First.Last@fcagroup.com (Tim just goes by Tim not Timothy). If everyone on here sent an email to Sergio Marchionne, Tim , et al, I bet we would get some results. Now I know how things work at big companies (I've worked for several in senior positions) emails to Sergio are referred to someone to research and respond to. BUT once it becomes obvious that many customers are upset action typically follows. So write a letter. Copy my email if you want and say you agree. Tell them how many FCA vehicles you own or have owned. Tell them if you have reconsidered a purchase because of their warranty denials. If they get enough emails they WILL get the message.

This effects all of us. I'm sure the value of our Vipers is being adversely effected.

[Coloviper]

George;

I think you are on to something but I think there is more mass here than the few e-mails. Why can't this VOA club not start to get behind it with the members involved and provide a National Club response with petition signatures, etc. from all members. I personally have been very vocal that I am done with FCA due to this kind of corporate response. Then they unveil the Alfa Romero Stelvio SUV, which has been haunting my dreams but the taste of what is happening with Viper has me crossing the Stelvio off my list. I still want a GEN V, but can't bring myself to buy a new one because of their stance. I will actually have the money to do so with the sale of my wireless communications company in a few months.

They need to know the Viper response is being viewed as an entire FCA issue for their entire model line up to some (like myself). Like you, I agree the problem may not be at the very top even though I have been critical of Sergio. I still think Timothy is a major part of the problem with Viper period. Having met the guy, I just can not bring myself around to believe he is not the problem. Could be some idiot lawyer with a god complex as well.

Anyway, it would be great if the club would orchestrate it and provide it to FCA along with social and physical media attention on the action. The silence of the club can be defining at times. It is not like FCA is paying our bills anymore. It si the right thing to do and it is winter. Lots of extra time to do this now!

[Bruce H.]

George,

Outstanding letter! Thank you for your efforts, and I hope this helps in some way.

[7TH_SIGN]

Excellent work George. Anyone with a denied claim should be assisting you in this.

[ViperGeorge]

Excellent work George. Anyone with a denied claim should be assisting you in this.

Thank you. I would urge EVERYONE to send an email to Sergio about this issue. The email should include the number of FCA vehicles you've owned over the years and what this issue is doing to your future purchase decisions. There is strength in numbers!

[BJG32]

Thank you. I would urge EVERYONE to send an email to Sergio about this issue. The email should include the number of FCA vehicles you've owned over the years and what this issue is doing to your future purchase decisions. There is strength in numbers!

I will send mine today.

[98RedGTS]

Will send a letter as well. I had the conversation with the sales manager at our local dealership recently so it wouldn't hurt to send an e-mail as well.

For me, I can't afford a Gen 5, really wish I could but at some point I have to be honest with my financial stance and realize that while I could make the payments I really couldn't "afford" it. With that said, I was dead set on trading in my paid off 2010 Roush 427R and my paid off 04 Cobra towards a Hellcat and then financing the remainder. After seeing what has happened here, is happening with some Hellcat owners and what I went through for warranty work on my wife's 16 Durango RT I decided to just keep my Mustangs.

I only watch the Gen 5's as I think maybe I can own one some day like I now have my Gen 2. Was once a pipe dream but came true so maybe a Gen5 will be in the distant future as well.

[dadeuce]

Maybe you could get Preston Henn to send Sergio another letter? They seem to be on pretty good terms. lol

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...wsuit-dropped/

quote: "He's not doing the Formula 1 worth a s$%#. And he can't cut off his best customers. And he has done it ..."

[2doorrocket]

Lol... Oh my friend you're so optimistic, and the illusion of support they're creating is merely to tickle your fancy. 290+ Engines have failed, and they want to blame after market parts. They've blamed my failed brake booster on my lowering springs and I had to pay out of pocket for my Challenger repairs.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Well written and kudos for taking a stand. Interested to see how this pans out and if they start to warranty them I will be ordering my Arrow controller THAT day.

[zee]

Well written and kudos for taking a stand. Interested to see how this pans out and if they start to warranty them I will be ordering my Arrow controller THAT day.

Me too

[zee]

Lol... Oh my friend you're so optimistic, and the illusion of support they're creating is merely to tickle your fancy. 290+ Engines have failed, and they want to blame after market parts. They've blamed my failed brake booster on my lowering springs and I had to pay out of pocket for my Challenger repairs.

Wow 290 eh? Any breakdown on the data like years, build times etc? If that many have truly failed, it would be helpful to get the data to see what trends their are. Perhaps that would shed some more light on why FCA just extended warranty on r28 issued cars.