2014 car with 10k miles, using 1qt/300 miles, found to have scoring on pistons

[dhx]

I've been following all the engine issue threads, and I wanted to let everyone know that I took my 2014 into the dealer the other day because it was using about a quart of oil every 300 miles. It had previously passed R28 (contamination) and had the recall done for R29 (consumption). The consumption was still really excessive and I figured it was better to be safe and bring it in. They took the engine apart and found marks on the pistons where they think the oil is making it by. It sounds like the markings are from oil contamination, but they aren't certain. In order to submit the warranty repair request FCA has asked them to disassemble the timing chain and they aren't sure why. This could be an indication of FCA having knowledge of something related to the timing chain being the source of contamination. The dealer also said they asked for a photo of the PCM, which is an Arrow PCM. Obviously I am going to be very upset if they don't honor the warranty due to a dealer promoted and installed product, especially if they can't prove it was the cause of the damage. I have my fingers crossed that they will do the right thing, but if they don't I will immediately turn around and retain at attorney to demand proof of the relationship between the PCM and the damage. Wish me luck..

Edit: Edited the title as requested

[One Viper Bite]

Wait...so...

Did your engine fail?

[mnc2886]

I hate to say it, but I can pretty much guarantee they won't honor anything since you have an Arrow PCM.

[dhx]

Wait...so...

Did your engine fail?

Technically no, it was still running, but between oil changes I went through over a dozen quarts of oil. When the engine was taken apart internal damage was found, so now it's sitting disassembled.

I hate to say it, but I can pretty much guarantee they won't honor anything since you have an Arrow PCM.

If that happens I will put all my rebuild money into a litigators hands, because someone needs to finally initiate legal action on inappropriate warranty denials. Even the dealer said to me today that they need to prove the aftermarket part caused the damage, and that's assuming it's even considered aftermarket, which is a stretch considering it's direct from Dodge.

[Voice of Reason]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Who is your dealer? How many miles on your car? Are you the original owner? And lastly any racing? I'm trying to get an idea of what conditions the engine is in.

[SRT_BluByU]

powertrain will req pix of head chambers, runner,piston tops, spark plugs, timing chain, pcm front and back, pcm connectors. all this is checking for afternarket parts (heads, cam, porting, pcm mod). if yiu did have stock pcm they woukd pull the mikage from the pcm and dash cluster to compare if its ever been swapoed out. i wouldnt be surprised if powertrain denys the warrenty based on pcm mod. i pray im wrong

[mnc2886]

Technically no, it was still running, but between oil changes I went through over a dozen quarts of oil. When the engine was taken apart internal damage was found, so now it's sitting disassembled.



If that happens I will put all my rebuild money into a litigators hands, because someone needs to finally initiate legal action on inappropriate warranty denials. Even the dealer said to me today that they need to prove the aftermarket part caused the damage, and that's assuming it's even considered aftermarket, which is a stretch considering it's direct from Dodge.

Believe me, I'm rooting for you. I am glad to see someone is willing to strike back against FCA. I think it is wrong for them to deny the warranties in the way that they have. Just keep in mind though, the Arrow PCM is not a factory part. It is not supported in any fashion by SRT. That's been their scape goat to deny everyone else with an Arrow PCM.

[7TH_SIGN]

Your warranty claim will be denied due to the Arrow PCM. Make contact with your attorney now. Your going to need him. Best of luck. Happy to see someone finally willing to actually fight FCA on this virus in which they created and are at fault for.

[EZ 2B Green]

Sorry to hear of your engine problem but I wish you would have used a different subject line. So far, I think all of the failures that have been posted were spun bearings. Yours is a different case and technically your engine didn't fail. Posting such in the subject is misleading.

[viperdriver5150]

Best thing that ever happened to me is that my car blew up brand new. In fact I was going to do a custom exhaust before I ever took it out and thank god I didn't. They will deny warranty if you tint your windows. ABSOLUTE JOKE.

I wish you the best with your troubles and I cannot say enough bad things about the FCA, what a bunch of bastards.

[AZTVR]

Did your engine fail?

Technically no, it was still running, but between oil changes I went through over a dozen quarts of oil. When the engine was taken apart internal damage was found, so now it's sitting disassembled.

Most definitely your engine did fail. No, it did not fail in a way that some people would call "catastrophic," but 300 miles/quart and internal damage is a failure in any mechanic's book.

You are very correct in calling this an engine failure.

Sorry to hear of your engine problem but I wish you would have used a different subject line. So far, I think all of the failures that have been posted were spun bearings. Yours is a different case and technically your engine didn't fail. Posting such in the subject is misleading.

Spun bearings are the end result of some undisclosed failure cause. Could be low oil level, could be debris in the oil. People who have had spun bearings very likely could have not kept up with a 1 quart per 300 mile oil consumption and starved the bearings for oil. This engine failure may very well be just like many others. He just didn't allow it to eat the bearings.

Just my opinion.

[7TH_SIGN]

^^^Well said AZTVR.

[AZTVR]

Happy to see someone finally willing to actually fight FCA on this virus in which they created and are at fault for.

I hadn't read that the other two guys with Arrow controllers had decided not to fight.

OP, I would recommend contacting the other two members here that said their warranties were denied, if Dodge does deny your warranty.

[EZ 2B Green]

Too many assumptions being made in this thread in my opinion. Let's get more information before getting too far ahead of the situation.

[Terminator02]

I've been following all the engine issue threads, and I wanted to let everyone know that I took my 2014 into the dealer the other day because it was using about a quart of oil every 300 miles. It had previously passed R28 (contamination) and had the recall done for R29 (consumption). The consumption was still really excessive and I figured it was better to be safe and bring it in. They took the engine apart and found marks on the pistons where they think the oil is making it by. It sounds like the markings are from oil contamination, but they aren't certain. In order to submit the warranty repair request FCA has asked them to disassemble the timing chain and they aren't sure why. This could be an indication of FCA having knowledge of something related to the timing chain being the source of contamination. The dealer also said they asked for a photo of the PCM, which is an Arrow PCM. Obviously I am going to be very upset if they don't honor the warranty due to a dealer promoted and installed product, especially if they can't prove it was the cause of the damage. I have my fingers crossed that they will do the right thing, but if they don't I will immediately turn around and retain at attorney to demand proof of the relationship between the PCM and the damage. Wish me luck..

Sorry to hear this but I like your fighting spirit and you may very well need it. How many miles on your car? Did you have consumption issues prior to taking it to the dealer or did this just happen recently?

[swexlin]

When did you notice the consumption, from new? Did you bring it to their attention then? At what point did you put the controller on?

[Topplayer]

Watch this guy get it warrantied up and running before next season, and this forum goes positive again!


#dreamingofthefuture
#maga

[Dman]

If confirmed, that debris causing piston scoring and resulting oil consumption, this would be a documented failure from debris on a car that passed R28. And agree, this engine did fail, just not a catastrophic failure since the OP was so didligent feeding it oil.

Best of luck, I also agree you should start lawyer searching now, FCA has already proven they won't warranty a PCM swapped car. But, fingers crossed for you. Keep us updated if you can, thx.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and how many miles did you have on it? Just curious.

[dhx]

So, the car has 10k miles on it, I am the second owner and bought it at 4k miles. I didn't pay attention to the oil level right away since it was basically a brand new car, so I didn't even think I would need to watch it like a hawk. Around 5k miles I took it in to the dealer to have the R29 recall done, and the oil was changed at that time, and the dealer also installed the Arrow PCM around that time. About 1500 miles later I decided it would be good to get in the habit of checking the oil level, and after struggling with the dipstick smear issues (which are very real, even though I know some of you don't have it and think the others are crazy) I realized it was VERY low. I tracked down the elusive pennzoil factory oil and it took 4 quarts to get it back up to the marker. After that scare I watched the oil level constantly, and eventually started noting the mileage at which each quart was added. It seemed to average about 300 miles for each quart.

So, even though my oil was basically fresh since I added so much, I decided that at a minimum it still needs a new filter, and that the dealer should investigate the consumption problem - I thought who know, maybe it's something simple like the PCV system or a leak that wasn't showing up on my garage floor, but the first thing Chrysler told them to do was to start taking the engine apart. The dealer has replaced viper engines before, and I don't think they've been asked to disassemble the timing chain, so I think there is possibly more to that story than just being 'part of the warranty request process'. Either way, the dealer said they would fight for me, because they agree that it should be covered because i was using a dealer sold and installed component. Even if it's not Mopar, it's dealer supported, and I think I'd have a very strong case in front of a judge. FCA would first have to prove that it is aftermarket, AND they would have to prove it was the cause of the damage. Sure, it might cost me some money in legal fees, but I don't think they will be able to do both of those things. Now, I have many attorney's I use regularly, but this isn't their niche and I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing this at them, so I'd have to select someone who specializes in this field, and it would probably cost $400-$500 an hour for the most aggresive attorney. I'm guessing it would end up costing me about $10,000, just a guess, but I think it would be worth it.

To clarify, I don't track the car - I'd like to, but I noticed this issue and didn't want to put that strain on the car knowing it had an issue.

Also, I did send a PM to SACA, but can you tell me the name of the other member? I'd like to reach out to him also.

Thanks!

[dadeuce]

I think this is the other guy:
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...=arrow+failure

You might want to reach out to KB Viper too. He did some leg work on the legal thing ... class action, but maybe he learned something that would help you.
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...t=class+action

[dhx]

I think this is the other guy:
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...=arrow+failure

You might want to reach out to KB Viper too. He did some leg work on the legal thing ... class action, but maybe he learned something that would help you.
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...t=class+action

Thank you, just messaged Disc, and will read through that class action suit thread again. I read it awhile back but need to refresh my memory. If they have a competent lawyer chipping in with them may be a better way to go.

[zee]

I seriously think there is a reason why FCA decided to extend warranty on r28/r29 cars vs r29 cars only. They know that cars have been passing R28 and still failing. I wish thy would just extend all viper warranties but the fact that they selected just the r28 cars is really interesting.

OP - good luck to you and hope all works out in your favor with the arrow pcm potential conflict. It's really sad that it is even a question. Thanks for keeping us updated.

[viper04]

I hate to say it, but I can pretty much guarantee they won't honor anything since you have an Arrow PCM.

dhx
I hope the best of luck for you but FCA really don't care. Once they are aware of the Arrow PCM that's there out. Please keep us posted on the out come.

[Dave1968]

I'm going against the grain here and will advise this. Talk to a professional shop about rebuilding your engine the way you want to; heads, cam, etc.. or stock, whatever you want; get that price quote. Unless you can find a lawyer that is willing to litigate like these injury guys do and only charge you if they win, then go with the rebuild. If you have tons of money and just want to fight FCA for the hell of it then fine, but you will lose and I'm very sorry to hear your plight. The lawyers are the only winners here - you will spend tens of thousands of dollars and waste literally years fighting this and will still lose. I am always the positive person, but I know FCA has their ass covered. So ending on a positive note, this is just a way for you to upgrade your car to an even crazier beast and you will love it!!

[NT-ACR]

I'm going against the grain here and will advise this. Talk to a professional shop about rebuilding your engine the way you want to; heads, cam, etc.. or stock, whatever you want; get that price quote. Unless you can find a lawyer that is willing to litigate like these injury guys do and only charge you if they win, then go with the rebuild. If you have tons of money and just want to fight FCA for the hell of it then fine, but you will lose and I'm very sorry to hear your plight. The lawyers are the only winners here - you will spend tens of thousands of dollars and waste literally years fighting this and will still lose. I am always the positive person, but I know FCA has their ass covered. So on that positive note, this is just a way for you to upgrade your car to an even crazier beast and you will love it!!

If you're going that route, just talk to Woodhouse. They do builds with the Gen 4 block.