Are These Cylinder Heads Stock

[GenIIIDave]

I have a Gen 3 and am looking at adding some power. I have a guy local to me that is willing to sell me some Gen 3 heads that he says have been ported and have aftermarket springs and valves in them. He is willing to sell them to me for $2500 as he has had them laying around his speed shop for awhile now.

My questions are can anyone tell from the pictures if work has been done to them? I am pretty much an amateur when it comes to cylinder heads and cam shaft specs etc. Seems like a decent price, but if they are just stock Gen 3 heads then I would not want them. Says he also has a matching cam and I would see about an additional 80hp at the wheels.

[chicagopd50]

before you blow all that money off on a set off heads, look at what i did last week , on just a cam swap with zero head work or intake work.. just cam, lifters, push rods and valve springs.... only ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKyS68w6rX4 i dynoed 460hp 480tq before cam ...after cam i was at 583hp 571 tq all on a mustang dyno to...


http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...er-video-sound

[GenIIIDave]

Wow that is a huge gain for cam only. You got me thinking now maybe I will do the same setup. Still wondering if those heads are not stock though. I may be into it for about the same amount you are including the heads. I am still waiting to hear back about the install price.

[chicagopd50]

My heads? Or the heads u posted?

[Stealth78]

before you blow all that money off on a set off heads, look at what i did last week , on just a cam swap with zero head work or intake work.. just cam, lifters, push rods and valve springs.... only ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKyS68w6rX4 i dynoed 460hp 480tq before cam ...after cam i was at 583hp 571 tq all on a mustang dyno to...


http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...er-video-sound

Bud, with all due respect.... your situation is bizarre. I wish some of the very respectable engine builders would chime in with some real world gains. Your post above is very misleading for people and it's truly not fair to others who may not know better to assume that they are going to gain 123whp simply out of a cam swap. I have seen multiple builds on GenIII's and 123whp is just not possible out of just a cam swap. The numbers you are posting aren't even that far off from a full out H&C GenV build, as they are generally around 650 I believe on a Dynojet which once again translates to low 600's on a Mustang dyno. As I said before I'm not calling you a liar but something is not adding up. A GenIII is at almost a 150 HP deficit stock for stock compared to a GenV, and somehow your car is putting down close to the same numbers as a full H&C GenV by simply slipping in a cam. You even stated that you are on stock manifolds, granted headers are probably only good for another 20hp but still.

[GenIIIDave]

My heads? Or the heads up posted?

The heads I posted.

[GenIIIDave]

Ok so I talked again with the seller of the heads. He said the heads aren't ported/polished, but that he had them "cleaned up, blemishes removed on intake exhaust and combustion chambers etc." Would that be worth any power over my stock heads or should I not waste my money on the heads and just get a cam?

- - - Updated - - -

They do also have Manley springs, valves and cam retainers...

[Stealth78]

Ok so I talked again with the seller of the heads. He said the heads aren't ported/polished, but that he had them "cleaned up, blemishes removed on intake exhaust and combustion chambers etc." Would that be worth any power over my stock heads or should I not waste my money on the heads and just get a cam?

- - - Updated - - -

They do also have Manley springs, valves and cam retainers...

If your car doesn't have any issues I don't see it worth your while to spend $2,500 on that set up. Somewhere between $1,500-$2,000 wouldn't be a bad deal but you still aren't going to see much for performance gain out of them unless they have been ported. If you want a serious gain in power for a very reasonable price there is a guy on the VTCOA selling a full out H&C package including bigger valves, cam & spring package (from JMB Justin), and a ported intake, also including all gaskets (cometic head gaskets) for I believe $4,700. It is all brand new and never installed. I know this package well as it was mine. It has never been installed! It will make over 700HP at the crank and make huge TQ #'s with the cam profile.

[Stealth78]

I spent almost $7,000 putting that package together* Reason I sold it because I decided to sell the car it was going to go in and now have my GenIV.

[Stealth78]

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/f14/head...package-64224/

[Stealth78]

I do believe he is wrong about the valve size if I remember correctly.... I think it was 2.02/1.60

[chicagopd50]

Stealth, i have heard many people say that just a cam only gen3 keeps up with a gen 4.... so thats all the proof u need.. tomorrow i will go to the drag way and see what mph i will trap to see how much i have gained from my average of 126mph. Like couple others chimed in and said that thier buddies gen 3 kept up with gen4s with zero head work done.. in all honest if u think about it... if u just port your heads and dont change the cam how much do u think you will gain? This is all speculation cuz not too many have just ported heads and not change cam out..i bet you less then 35hp gain on just porting heads... i seriously think doing heads will not gain u much.. i actually showed a very reputable tuner scott from roe racing and he himself was not shocked but was impressed with gains... not too many people do dynos after every upgrade but i have access to one and can see every hp i gain on every upgrade..
lets list the upgrades that has netted me 583hp
710r cam 65hp advertised
valve springs 10hp advertised
push rods 10hp advertised
slowbleed lifters 10hp advertised
underdrive pulley 10hp
bbk tb 15hp advertised
k&n filter 15hp advertised
cat deletes 25hp advertised
borla cat backs 8hp estimate?
sct tune 30hp advertised.
This totals to 198 hp.....do the math its very possible if all my upgrades synced together then its real ...i certainly feel the power as if the motor woke up after cam install..
So let's say a stock gen3 is at 442hp average plus 198 hp that a total of 640hp minus 10% on mustang dyno equals 576hp.... i think its dead on...

[Stealth78]

You have a nice list of bolt-ons, and yes it's about making modifications that work well as a package. You cannot always assume you are going to get every advertised HP off of every mod. Heck I would love to see a GenIII with no head work, thinner gaskets, headers or obviously not spraying make 640 whp on a Dynojet. I don't even know if Slowhatch's GenIV would dyno 600 at the wheels on a Mustang dyno and I think he ran a 10.43. You might have a bad ass cam that has monster lift, but if your heads can't flow it and you are also restricting with factory manifolds it just seems like a high number. I bet you could expect another 40-50whp from good head work, gaskets and headers.

[chicagopd50]

I just did a pass at drag strip.. my mph was 129.55.. i think that mph is pretty par with what hp I have.. and i must add I think my clutch is toast cuz i smelled clutch on every run.. i kinda figured it was time cuz i do have about 100 passes on this original clutch...

[Stealth78]

I just did a pass at drag strip.. my mph was 129.55

Bud don't take me wrong your car rips! Also I'm not trying to say you are claiming an extra 100-150 HP or something ridiculous, all I'm saying is your car seems like it is making the power it should with head work and headers, roughly 50 HP. Just watched your pass too, nice run. 40 degrees might not be good for traction but it's also not a bad thing on the big end of the track. Do you happen to know what the DA was?

[chicagopd50]

the DA was like -200... ... my car has no head work or headers, so the gains were pretty much good, i gained a good 3-4 mph .. but i do feel clutch slipping i might be able to hit 131mph with fresh clutch.. i was smelling clutch today so its time.. i have over 100 passes on this original clutch including street races..