2 pound battery install in 2016 ACR

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I've been in contact with Lithium battery co, I've worked with them in the past. The above link I posted does not really have any batteries they recommend for vehicle starting because the battery management systems in those are not really designed for starting applications may become damaged over time.

They have recommended a battery for the Viper application, it is one that is not on the website. The list price is ~$500, it weighs 8.4 lbs. I am looking to see if I can get a better price from them.

They recommend a specific charger, they have a deal with Pro Charging Systems with dedicated algorithms for their batteries. Anyway I'm looking into this further.

Doug

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Please see my post above, I just want to make sure everyone sees they have another battery that is specific for charging applications so none of these are really ideal for a vehicle.

Thanks
Doug

So which AH rating would be a direct replacement for a stock battery? LBC has 10,20,30,40, 50 and 100AH

Thanks for posting a link to those batteries....I like their design much more for a daily driven vehicle that can be parked in my home garage. Price isn't outrageous either. One of our clients builds high end expedition type vehicles for the Australian market and uses high end Li-Ion batteries for both the starting and house batteries......at $1500.00 each. IIRC each vehicle has at least 3 of them on the truck. But, they are very impressed with the results.

Looks like this one would work well in our cars- https://www.lithiumbatterycompany.com/12v/20ah
Would just need to figure out what adaptors are needed to connect it..

What kind of maintenance charger do you use for one of these lithium batteries? If it was posted already, sorry, I missed it.

Also, none of these batteries is the same size as the standard battery, so what are people doing to secure it? The 30AH battery is closer but still smaller.

[ViperGeorge]

I've been in contact with Lithium battery co, I've worked with them in the past. The above link I posted does not really have any batteries they recommend for vehicle starting because the battery management systems in those are not really designed for starting applications may become damaged over time.

They have recommended a battery for the Viper application, it is one that is not on the website. The list price is ~$500, it weighs 8.4 lbs. I am looking to see if I can get a better price from them.

They recommend a specific charger, they have a deal with Pro Charging Systems with dedicated algorithms for their batteries. Anyway I'm looking into this further.

Doug

Doug, There are a lot of "Don'ts" in the document you attached. For example Don't store for long periods unless battery is half charged. How would that work on a Viper when some people store their cars for months at a time? They are also very specific about charging voltage and current. Would a Viper alternator meet their parameters?

Do you know where the battery is made? From the "English" used in the document I would say some where overseas. China maybe? That's not a slam on foreign goods but some countries are more reliable than others when it comes to living up to manufacturing standards and stating the truth about their products. (Lead painted toys anyone?)

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Doug, There are a lot of "Don'ts" in the document you attached. For example Don't store for long periods unless battery is half charged. How would that work on a Viper when some people store their cars for months at a time? They are also very specific about charging voltage and current. Would a Viper alternator meet their parameters?

Do you know where the battery is made? From the "English" used in the document I would say some where overseas. China maybe? That's not a slam on foreign goods but some countries are more reliable than others when it comes to living up to manufacturing standards and stating the truth about their products. (Lead painted toys anyone?)

George, I don't know for sure I will ask. I do trust these guys know what they are doing so these are good questions.

[ViperGeorge]

George, I don't know for sure I will ask. I do trust these guys know what they are doing so these are good questions.

Thanks Doug. I guess we all would want to know if the battery would in fact function well and safely in a Viper given it would be exposed to temperature extremes (-20F to +120F in some places and I've even driven my Viper in sub-freezing weather), vibration, storage for long periods, and the Viper's charging system. Saving like 40-50 pounds would be pretty freakin awesome and the price point is much better than Braille. It does seem like they have just about every safety feature would could imagine for a Lithium Ion battery, maybe Boeing should have reached out to these guys for their expertise.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Thanks Doug. I guess we all would want to know if the battery would in fact function well and safely in a Viper given it would be exposed to temperature extremes (-20F to +120F in some places and I've even driven my Viper in sub-freezing weather), vibration, storage for long periods, and the Viper's charging system. Saving like 40-50 pounds would be pretty freakin awesome and the price point is much better than Braille. It does seem like they have just about every safety feature would could imagine for a Lithium Ion battery, maybe Boeing should have reached out to these guys for their expertise.

I have an email to them and will continue to ask questions as they come up. They already told me

It has been used in several race car applications throughout the world sold by LBC.

A spec sheet of this level of detail is not something you often see for a battery. Only a few companies actually make the LiFePo cells (A123 is one of them). The poorly translated part of this document seems to relate to the cells themselves, and warnings seem to pertain to individual cells and also design guidelines for those designing and assembling battery packs. What matters IMO is the design of the package when assembled which is what these guys seem to be good at, so many of the warnings will be negated once you have the finished battery.

As for the temperature spec, I would say page 2 covers that, -20C(-4F)-45C(113F) for charging and 3 month storage; -20(-4F)-60C(140F) for discharge and 1 month storage; -20C(-4F)-25C(77F) for 6 month storage.

Boeing was using a chemistry that isn't as safe to begin with but still these seem to be fully protected as much as reasonably possible.

[Arizona Vipers]

Saving like 40-50 pounds would be pretty freakin awesome and the price point is much better than Braille.

You wont save that much weight. The factory battery weighs 31.6 lbs, the ACR battery is 24.3 lbs

[ViperGeorge]

You wont save that much weight. The factory battery weighs 31.6 lbs, the ACR battery is 24.3 lbs

Ok, I gotta say the battery in my TA seems way heavier than that. Could be I'm just getting old and weak. Yea, that's it.

[Arizona Vipers]

Ok, I gotta say the battery in my TA seems way heavier than that. Could be I'm just getting old and weak. Yea, that's it.

hehe. Maybe there are bigger ones than the one in my '13. Mind didn't have the bigger stereo, does yours?

[ViperGeorge]

hehe. Maybe there are bigger ones than the one in my '13. Mind didn't have the bigger stereo, does yours?

Yes, it has the 18 speaker stereo but that was a dealer installed upgrade.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Here is some more info from LBC. PS Arizona sorry for hijacking this thread if I pursue anything with this I'll start my own.

The battery is supposed to be used for engine starting and then the alternator charges it back up. It is not really designed for someone that is going to start their car and run their radio or other electronics that will drain the battery down past the recovery point. It could be stored connected with the charger but you will only lose less then 3% capacity each month. The battery does not need to be discharged every 6 months. It would be best just to keep it charged. Lithium loves to stay charged and you will increase the life span of the battery.

The alternators are doing a great job of charging the batteries. I have a 12V 100AH lithium ion battery in my mustang. I have some RV clients that have reported that their alternators are charging our storage batteries very efficiently. I do not think you will have to worry to much about charging off of the vehicle.

You are good with extreme conditions. We have the batteries being used in +160* F temperatures. The battery is bolted together for extreme vibrations and g forces.

The battery packs are made with one of our contracted factories in China. We use only high discharge cells for this type of battery. This battery has been very successful with our military used to start lighting carts. I would want to put this battery into an application that is only used for starting and will be immediately charged back up. Its not good for people that want to run their electronics separately for long periods of time.

Anyway, I will probably get one of these, evaluate the install, monitor the voltage when the car isn't running to see how long it will last off the charger, and see where it goes.

[ViperGeorge]

Here is some more info from LBC. PS Arizona sorry for hijacking this thread if I pursue anything with this I'll start my own.



Anyway, I will probably get one of these, evaluate the install, monitor the voltage when the car isn't running to see how long it will last off the charger, and see where it goes.

So, running electronics with the car running shouldn't be a problem as the alternator would be supplying voltage. What they are saying is don't just run the electronics unless the car is running, correct?

Any ideas on mounting or will you figure that out when you get one?

[TrackAire]

Here is some more info from LBC. PS Arizona sorry for hijacking this thread if I pursue anything with this I'll start my own.



Anyway, I will probably get one of these, evaluate the install, monitor the voltage when the car isn't running to see how long it will last off the charger, and see where it goes.

"It is not really designed for someone that is going to start their car and run their radio or other electronics that will drain the battery down past the recovery point."

Just to clarify his response....I think he meant to say that it is not for somebody that turns off the engine and then wants to listen to music, run interior lights, etc for an extended time. From my experience, if the car is running and the alternator is producing volts/amps, you're good to go running your radio, lights, ac, etc for as long as you want.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

So, running electronics with the car running shouldn't be a problem as the alternator would be supplying voltage. What they are saying is don't just run the electronics unless the car is running, correct?

Any ideas on mounting or will you figure that out when you get one?

"It is not really designed for someone that is going to start their car and run their radio or other electronics that will drain the battery down past the recovery point."

Just to clarify his response....I think he meant to say that it is not for somebody that turns off the engine and then wants to listen to music, run interior lights, etc for an extended time. From my experience, if the car is running and the alternator is producing volts/amps, you're good to go running your radio, lights, ac, etc for as long as you want.

Correct. He's just saying don't go crazy running the battery down to 10V all the time, because you'd have a dead battery (the circuit will shut the output off and would
Need a charge). If the engine is running you're going to be OK.

George I'll probably order tomorrow and figure out what's needed for mounting.

[ViperGeorge]

Did they say anything about the 12V 30ah battery? Looks to be about the same weight as the 18ah you posted about and about the same dimensions. Would the 30ah be a better option? Or is there something different about the 18ah one that makes it better for vehicle use?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Did they say anything about the 12V 30ah battery? Looks to be about the same weight as the 18ah you posted about and about the same dimensions. Would the 30ah be a better option? Or is there something different about the 18ah one that makes it better for vehicle use?

The 18Ah is designed for vehicle starting applications with high discharge cells that produce a higher CCA number and modified protection electronics to accommodate vehicle starting. The 30Ah is designed for lower peak current draw, not the high loads required to start a vehicle. The 30aH would probably work in the short term but would probably not last as long since it isn't designed for a starting application.

[ViperGeorge]

The 18Ah is designed for vehicle starting applications with high discharge cells that produce a higher CCA number and modified protection electronics to accommodate vehicle starting. The 30Ah is designed for lower peak current draw, not the high loads required to start a vehicle. The 30aH would probably work in the short term but would probably not last as long since it isn't designed for a starting application.

Thanks! Good to know.