FCA and social media

[SRT_BluByU]

This is absolutely the wrong approach...at this very early stage about what we're afraid "might" happen based on two claims that we know very little about when you get right down to it.

These forums are for the support of the Viper community, and the manufacturer hasn't just been a part of it, it's been the backbone of it. Those of us here who have met and interacted with various Team Viper members have uniformly been extremely impressed with their enthusiasm, dedication, commitment, integrity and pride in the Viper and owner community.

Many here have purchased their Vipers in large part because of the enormous goodwill that Team Viper has created with individual owners and the community at large. It's a source of pride that we share in what they created as much for themselves as for those who would purchase and share in their passion.

To turn on them like this is an absolute betrayal of the relationship THEY have worked so hard to create, enhance and maintain. This relationship doesn't exist because of some slick marketing move, it's from years of meeting and getting to know many of the individual hard-care enthusiasts who designed, engineered, tested, raced, and supported the Viper over the years, and who have made themselves accessible to owners and car enthusiasts over many, many years. That's who they are, and they've tried in every way imaginable to make us family. I doubt this close relationship exists with any other marque.

Attacking FCA in public is also a public attack on our Team Viper friends, and it's not much of a stretch to see it's an attack on our whole community. Angry members flinging extremely harsh and vulgar criticism, threatening not to buy another, warning others not to buy any Viper, selling theirs, some claiming to be afraid to drive theirs, advising others not to make even minor modifications of things that they know have no bearing on warranty. All the while we knew, or should have known, that modifying the engine with an aftermarket computer and more aggressive tune could risk the vehicle warranty, or make a claim more difficult....

And that's where we are at now...two claims refused. Those owners need to aggressively establish their cases and pursue their warranty claims within the protection that the law provides. If the community wants to help we should be assisting them with establishing their cases, their claims, and help fund escalating legal costs if a strong case is made and refused by FCA.

That's the approach we should be recommending, and the way to support our community rather than destroying it.

Well said..

Ralph G, Mark T., Dick W., and the rest of the SRT folks were the reason I had left a 20+ year relationship with Chevy. The interaction between the community and the passionate designers and Engineers with SRT was exillerating and refreshing. I've spent lots of time with the SRT guys/gals and they were great.

It seems like Ralph's last interaction was the awesome green hellcat burnout and then poof.

I sure miss his leadership and the rest of the teams interaction & involvement (round table discussions, YouTube videos, hospitality tents, national and local event attendance, Twitter feeds, etc).. That interaction and passion had led to my purchase of 5 SRTs ultimately leading to my current Viper.

[swexlin]

Appreciate the input Andy. I'm sure the engineers are in agreement, it's convincing Senior management. Working for a large company myself, I know how it is.....

[Arizona Vipers]

I am now seeing arrow controllers for sale with no warning to potential buyers....just advertised as a "good deal"

.

LOL!

[BJG32]

LOL!

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[jaxtk]

Do we really want to do this over 2 motors that have been denied warranty claims that we don't even know the full story?
Seems that we are all causing the ruin of the Viper's reputation forever. The car will always be known as a piece of junk.
Up before the last couple of motors, Chrysler has not only replaced the motors but extended the warranty 5 years. We should at least praise them for that before ruining the last 25 years of reputation due to two warranty claims being denied.

Thoughts?

I completely agree.

[Patentlaw]

You speak as if this is something new and unexpected...have you ever owned/modded a GM product that was under warranty? I had my first experience with this back in 2002 with the Camaro I bought new that same year...I had trouble with my transmission getting stuck in 3rd gear and rear axle gear whine. I had the car in at least 5-6 times for different warranty claims related to the powertrain, and do you know what they did immediately when it came in? They read the PCM to check for any type of aftermarket tuning...thankfully at that point, GM hadn't implemented a counter that showed how many times the PCM had been flashed, and I had been smart enough to put it back to stock before bringing it in. If I'm not mistaken, GM eventually closed that loophole a few years later by implementing a counter in the PCMs.

The last time the transmission was replaced in that car under warranty, I was informed that they would no longer be covering any future transmission warranty claims from me. Why? Because I had installed a shift light, and that was evidence of the car being raced. That's right...a shift light was enough to void my powertrain warranty.

This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last that a manufacturer denies a warranty claim because of an aftermarket modification. This started becoming an issue for all of them in the late 90s and early 2000s, and they've taken steps to protect themselves from dishonest customers. If you modify the PCM in any way, you should reasonably expect that you stand a chance of losing your powertrain warranty.

Steve M for post of the month.

You honestly get it. It is a completely analogous situation. Camaro was ending in 2002. They were done with it. They were done with you.

Honestly, corporate here killed the Viper. The remaining people are trying to find jobs in other areas. Do you think that any of them are going to rock to boat on a product that is going to be killed? Honestly? They want to feed their family. They are scrambling to find employment in other areas. Calling who they know...trying to fit in.

Also, even in the "good old days", they were charging 130k for a car they now sell for 80k. Wow...they really had the customer in mind back then too.........

It is dollars and cents now. The decision was made very high up. The direction has been set. People are marching to it. The 200 people who bought Vipers are meaningless to the overall organization. I know it is hard to the egos on here to understand this......but their business really does not matter. You were only a cash stream.

[Vibert]

Steve M for post of the month.

You honestly get it. It is a completely analogous situation. Camaro was ending in 2002. They were done with it. They were done with you.

Honestly, corporate here killed the Viper. The remaining people are trying to find jobs in other areas. Do you think that any of them are going to rock to boat on a product that is going to be killed? Honestly? They want to feed their family. They are scrambling to find employment in other areas. Calling who they know...trying to fit in.

Also, even in the "good old days", they were charging 130k for a car they now sell for 80k. Wow...they really had the customer in mind back then too.........

It is dollars and cents now. The decision was made very high up. The direction has been set. People are marching to it. The 200 people who bought Vipers are meaningless to the overall organization. I know it is hard to the egos on here to understand this......but their business really does not matter. You were only a cash stream.

Sad but true. This is how all large corporations function. Profit above all else, including acting honorably. Filthy corporate fascists.

[KB Viper]

I want to encourage anyone pissed off about this warranty stuff to do what i am doing. Troll all social media ads. Make them do the right thing and shut us up.

Attachment 19375

I'm in, so who's starting the blog???

For all that don't agree with this, let me ask this. My prior 2014 spun the #7 bearing with 4500 miles and was full of oil (500 mile oil change, 4000 mile change and I checked the oil the morning it let go) and was bought back under CA lemon law because it sat for 67 days (after 30 consecutive days in CA you can request buy back I gave them 60 days before I requested it) should I ignore the fact that my current Viper has 19,440 miles on it and I still burn a quart every 1k miles? Should I blame Arrow heads/cam for my oil consumption? I don't see how since I had that modification done at 12k miles and it's always burned oil. Should I blame Arrow stage 1 PCM that I had before heads/cam? I don't see how since I had it installed at 7k miles and again my car has always burned oil.

Let me guess you all that don't agree with this think I should just accept burning oil because I modded the car? Well I'm not, as I know from experience stock Vipers full of oil can spin bearings and stock Vipers can burn oil well after the ridiculous 5k mile break-in which makes both cases an obvious manufacture defect that should be fixed under warrenty. I don't even want a new motor I believe FCA should pay to have Arrow re bore the cylinders and install a slightly larger piston and new rings. That fix would be around 5k and boom you have happy customers.

[Vibert]

I'm in, so who's starting the blog???

For all that don't agree with this, let me ask this. My prior 2014 spun the #7 bearing with 4500 miles and was full of oil (500 mile oil change, 4000 mile change and I checked the oil the morning it let go) and was bought back under CA lemon law because it sat for 67 days (after 30 consecutive days in CA you can request buy back I gave them 60 days before I requested it) should I ignore the fact that my current Viper has 19,440 miles on it and I still burn a quart every 1k miles? Should I blame Arrow heads/cam for my oil consumption? I don't see how since I had that modification done at 12k miles and it's always burned oil. Should I blame Arrow stage 1 PCM that I had before heads/cam? I don't see how since I had it installed at 7k miles and again my car has always burned oil.

Let me guess you all that don't agree with this think I should just accept burning oil because I modded the car? Well I'm not, as I know from experience stock Vipers full of oil can spin bearings and stock Vipers can burn oil well after the ridiculous 5k mile break-in which makes both cases an obvious manufacture defect that should be fixed under warrenty. I don't even want a new motor I believe FCA should pay to have Arrow re bore the cylinders and install a slightly larger piston and new rings. That fix would be around 5k and boom you have happy customers.

Hear hear! I agree. The apologists who scurry to the defense of an evil corporation is sickening, as is the legal minutiae that is pulled.

[ViperSmith]

Hear hear! I agree. The apologists who scurry to the defense of an evil corporation is sickening, as is the legal minutiae that is pulled.

Who is apologizing? The situation sucks all around but beyond two PCM modified cars there isn't some large warranty denial going on.

I get why people are upset, but the sky isn't falling as some proclaim.

Again I'll ask, beyond doing a tear down themselves, why aren't people upset Arrow isn't standing behind it's product? If arrow is so sure that they didn't cause the engine to go boom, why aren't they funding a suit to prove so? I get they all are trying to amicability resolve the issue as well so there is that.

The frustration is valid, and dodges excuses are bullshit - but beyond the two failures so far there isn't a pattern of denying non-modified cars.

[AZTVR]

As far as the blog goes, I would not want to be a part of damaging Disc's and SACA's cases while they still have a chance. From Andy's input, it doesn't sound like that door is shut yet. The manufacturer often has a knee jerk reaction to say NO ! that mod voids your warranty even before they know what the failure cause is. (At least that's true from my reading of issues with GM. ) I wouldn't start a fire while there are still negotiations involved. Unless we don't give a crap about Disc and SACA.

[KB Viper]

Who is apologizing? The situation sucks all around but beyond two PCM modified cars there isn't some large warranty denial going on.

I get why people are upset, but the sky isn't falling as some proclaim.

Again I'll ask, beyond doing a tear down themselves, why aren't people upset Arrow isn't standing behind it's product? If arrow is so sure that they didn't cause the engine to go boom, why aren't they funding a suit to prove so? I get they all are trying to amicability resolve the issue as well so there is that.

The frustration is valid, and dodges excuses are bullshit - but beyond the two failures so far there isn't a pattern of denying non-modified cars.

ViperSmith--I hate to go here with you because we've been gen v owners since the beginning but what are you talking about? These motors were popping way before the arrow PCM was released and FCA is admitting there is a contamination and consumption issue via R28/29 and by the addition of a block cleaning station. What does the arrow PCM have to do with this? I've complained to the dealer about oil consumption (a quart every 1k miles) and from 1500 miles till 16000 miles they told me it was normal. After my R29 recall and they recognized I have arrow stage 2 now the dealer is blaming the consumption on that. So again I'm going to ask what are you talking about???

[ViperSmith]

ViperSmith--I hate to go here with you because we've been gen v owners since the beginning but what are you talking about? These motors were popping way before the arrow PCM was released and FCA is admitting there is a contamination and consumption issue via R28/29 and by the addition of a block cleaning station. What does the arrow PCM have to do with this? I've complained to the dealer about oil consumption (a quart every 1k miles) and from 1500 miles till 16000 miles they told me it was normal. After my R29 recall and they recognized I have arrow stage 2 now the dealer is blaming the consumption on that. So again I'm going to ask what are you talking about???

Did I somewhere say that the PCM caused the issue?

[KB Viper]

Did I somewhere say that the PCM caused the issue?

Your post asking us why we aren't upset with arrow and asking why arrow isn't stepping up is suggesting it. Look I'm not going to nit pick this with you.

[BJG32]

I've been removed from the VOA facebook page. It appears my idea does not conform. Some mods are car salesman, possibly afraid this will hurt the pocketbook. You can not stop freedom of speech because you dont like it. I deserve every perk a PAYING VOA member gets.

Not only that i have not posted anything about this issue on that page. A little premature if you ask me.


Vipergirl, can you please re-add me to that group. My join request is waiting in approval.

[ViperSmith]

Your post asking us why we aren't upset with arrow and asking why arrow isn't stepping up is suggesting it. Look I'm not going to nit pick this with you.

Infer what you want. I am not really sure how else to phrase what Dodge is doing is bullshit.

[ViperSmith]

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[Special Ed]

Infer what you want. I am not really sure how else to phrase what Dodge is doing is bullshit.

You say "What dodge is doing is Bull Shit", or something like that.

[Viper Girl]

The VOA Facebook page is @DriveViper

I'm guessing you are talking about banned from the Viper Owners Association Group? That's not the VOA club page.


I DO AGREE with others that we need to step back and let Disc and SACA have their day without distracting noise right now. This isnt the time to troll social media. You may not like hearing that. But it's the right thing to do.

[Ggrrady]

Every sports car i had burned oil. Starting with M3 and M6, C63, FType R, 911, CLS63 and now the ML63.

A qourt per 1,000 miles is a bit much though.

[Augdog1964]

Sad but true. This is how all large corporations function. Profit above all else, including acting honorably. Filthy corporate fascists.

I love people who benefit from Capitalism, yet bad mouth the profit motive... Think Dodge would have done the Viper if they didn't think they could MAKE MONEY AT IT? Altruism doesn't generally create the cutting edge products and technology breakthroughs. Perhaps you would prefer a new Trabant? That is the car that no profit motive creates...

[KB Viper]

Every sports car i had burned oil. Starting with M3 and M6, C63, FType R, 911, CLS63 and now the ML63.

A qourt per 1,000 miles is a bit much though.

And the m5/6 engine was named as having the most failures in the last ten years.

[BJG32]

The VOA Facebook page is @DriveViper

I'm guessing you are talking about banned from the Viper Owners Association Group? That's not the VOA club page.


I DO AGREE with others that we need to step back and let Disc and SACA have their day without distracting noise right now. This isnt the time to troll social media. You may not like hearing that. But it's the right thing to do.

This one. Labeled "vipers owners association" with you and Maurice as mods. I already said i'll wait it out with this idea in our back pocket. I have not posted a word on that page.....Saca has....will he be banned?

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[Ggrrady]

And the m5/6 engine was named as having the most failures in the last ten years.

I own a small independent dealer, and I stopped selling BMW. I have no experince with the newer ones but every 2010, regardless of model or miles was a pain.

[bluesrt]

All the acrx cars with off road tune i have not seen or heard of one blowing