ACR CCB's on non ACR Gen V

[mnc2886]

As stated before, I wanted to have everything as an OEM part. I like the largest size carbon ceramic rotor as possible. So, to do that on the rear, I need to have the larger spindle. I wanted to keep the emergency brake with the larger rotor too. Is this about ultimate stoping power, simple answer no. It is the fact I want the CCBs on my 15 to match my 16. If I need to swap parts for a track event I can, if I want to stock extra spares, they fit both

More a matter of choice and I am still into this kit for a very reasonable amount. Reasonable being in the beholder shelling out the green. It's the same reason I built an ACR-X from a regular ACR and used all OEM (DMS South) parts on the car. I kept a running spreadsheet of bought and sold items and it was still cheaper than getting an X with depreciation.

Anyway, to each their own I guess. Thanks for the offer however.

Excited to see how this turns out. Hurry up already!!! Haha!

[Dr.Ron]

The SRT's, GTS's and GT's should have had the option to have CCBs in my opinion.

I agree!

As stated before, I wanted to have everything as an OEM part. I like the largest size carbon ceramic rotor as possible. So, to do that on the rear, I need to have the larger spindle. I wanted to keep the emergency brake with the larger rotor too

All nice, but if just the E-brake is causing difficulties sourcing parts and vastly increasing the expense, wouldn't deleting the E-brake have made more sense? Just asking as I have no idea if this is true or not.

Ron

[Racingbrake]

This Mercedes C63 owner did the same exact conversion when he converted his C63 standard iron brakes to E63 CCB. The rear axle also required to be exchanged due to different rear drum brake size.

Complete build thread here:

Stock OEM MB Carbon Ceramic Brake Conversion
http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...onversion.html

[1of1TA1.0]

No offense but how is this relevant to my conversion? This is a platform that does not support the brake package as an OEM. Gen V vipers (ALL OF THEM) can do this conversion easily. The front knuckles are the same, the rear knuckles are different. The rear knuckle spaces both the emergency brake and the main caliper roughly 1/2" further out to allow for the larger rotor. Could I run a smaller rotor, yes, do I want to no.

Knowing where to source parts from and not paying a suggested retail price makes this conversion on par with any CCB option. The good part is I can swap components between both of my cars, I've never said that there isn't other options, just what my direction is. Again, no offense but I feel like you are trying to poke holes in my direction Racingbrake. I happen to admire what you are doing for the Viper community and glad you do.

This Mercedes C63 owner did the same exact conversion when he converted his C63 standard iron brakes to E63 CCB. The rear axle also required to be exchanged due to different rear drum brake size.

Complete build thread here:

Stock OEM MB Carbon Ceramic Brake Conversion
http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...onversion.html

[1of1TA1.0]

****UPDATE****

So, for those of you wanting to know the pricing so far:

CCM Front Rotors Complete
CCM Rear Rotors Complete
Factory Brake Pads (with wear sensors, not used in this application)
Brake Pad Pins (All four corners)
Brembo Front Calipers
Brembo Rear Calipers

$9,000 plus shipping from a Forum member

Left Knuckle Assembly
Right Knuckle Assembly

$4,204 plus shipping from a Dodge Dealership

$13,204 total without shipping is what I'm into this for so far.

In fairness, I also had to buy a set of 19" wheels to clear this. I was going to replace the wheels either way but this is an additional expense. I got the wheels new for $3,495 and the tires NEW for $1,000.

The knuckles came in today and they ARE CORRECT!!

[ViperPete]

Jesus that's a lot of money for some brakes.

$17,500.... That's almost 20% the price of a new Viper.

[1of1TA1.0]

Brakes are $13,204 actually I know they need wheels but any of the CCM brake kits require wheels. The VE Steel kit does not but these are amazing. I can also recoup some of the costs by selling my existing parts. Not sure that I want to. I will be selling the stock wheels however as they won't clear so no need to keep them.

And your 20% is a bit off too, you can't get an ACR for 100k and that's the only way you can get these on a Viper from the factory.

[ACRucrazy]

That's going to be an awesome "non ACR" when it's done!!

[BRACR]

I think what you are doing is neat...I still cannot figure out the math......but you already have an ACR so I want to see the finished product.

[mnc2886]

I think what you are doing is neat...I still cannot figure out the math......Viper = 110,000 + 13,500 = 123,500. Equivalent ACR = 133-135,000?

Your not figuring the aero and suspension. Also, you need to pay for R&D.

[1of1TA1.0]

Thanks Chris!

That's going to be an awesome "non ACR" when it's done!!

[1of1TA1.0]

I know some don't understand my project but I am so ready to get this done this weekend. So much has happened from the start of this project that finally having the parts and the time is going to be awesome to spend time in the garage!

[GTSilver]

To be honest at first I was skeptical in regards to the ccb conversion mostly due to trying out ccb in the past in late model 911's on the track as they couldn't last 1 track season (8-10 track days) and replacement costs being ridiculous I was convinced with sticking to steel brakes. However the more I have researched the newer advancements in ccb's especially in the corvette zr1 and also on the acr from forum members here with thier extended life and also price difference compared to porsche, ferrari ceramic brake replacement costs I'm working on that conversion as well.

Yes with steel brakes i have better pad options for track use but now there are more offerings than they used to be 5 years ago, yes steel is still marginally cheaper but the reduced rotating mass with ccb is significant. If you had any car with ccb and converted to steel brakes the first time you drive it you'll feel the difference. I'm not stating that they will last for a lifetime but will last much longer than they used to be a couple of years back.

To the OP thanks for the info with documenting the process and good luck cant wait to hear your feedback when you try them out.

Thanks
Yousif

[1of1TA1.0]

Thanks Yousif and I appreciate the clarity and your opinion on the difference between Iron and CCB/CCM. I'm looking forward to getting them done this weekend.

To be honest at first I was skeptical in regards to the ccb conversion mostly due to trying out ccb in the past in late model 911's on the track as they couldn't last 1 track season (8-10 track days) and replacement costs being ridiculous I was convinced with sticking to steel brakes. However the more I have researched the newer advancements in ccb's especially in the corvette zr1 and also on the acr from forum members here with thier extended life and also price difference compared to porsche, ferrari ceramic brake replacement costs I'm working on that conversion as well.

Yes with steel brakes i have better pad options for track use but now there are more offerings than they used to be 5 years ago, yes steel is still marginally cheaper but the reduced rotating mass with ccb is significant. If you had any car with ccb and converted to steel brakes the first time you drive it you'll feel the difference. I'm not stating that they will last for a lifetime but will last much longer than they used to be a couple of years back.

To the OP thanks for the info with documenting the process and good luck cant wait to hear your feedback when you try them out.

Thanks
Yousif

[donb]

Your not figuring the aero and suspension. Also, you need to pay for R&D.

Another really cool part of this is putting the option on a non-ACR car.

I was originally looking at an ACR, but I couldn't DD a car with a 7 foot wing on it.

You cannot remove the wing on an ACR and drive it on the street, the suspension requires it to be there.

I'm excited to see how this will work on the car (and I hope it works out).

My only apprehension is whether or not all the new parts will bolt up and not need a change to ABS or traction control to work properly.

[VENOM V]

I think it's awesome what your doing. Looking forward to your impressions. They are far and away the best brakes I have ever used, street or track. Nice that you documented the build for others

[Racingbrake]

****UPDATE****

So, for those of you wanting to know the pricing so far:

CCM Front Rotors Complete
CCM Rear Rotors Complete
Factory Brake Pads (with wear sensors, not used in this application)
Brake Pad Pins (All four corners)
Brembo Front Calipers
Brembo Rear Calipers

$9,000 plus shipping from a Forum member

Thank you for sharing.

Can you please provide the price break down, $9,000 is an unbeatable price. This was what we paid when we purchased from Dodge dealer (25% off):

Car set 4x calipers: $2,450 (including pad hardware)
Car set (front & rear set) brake pad: $1,100
So 4 rotors cost ($9,000 - $3,550) = $5,450 or $1,362.50 each. If you don't mind sharing the supplier (PM is fine) we like to purchase some rotors from him for our build.

Have you noticed any difference on knuckles, and can you take a picture (top view) showing the caliper mounting holes.

Thanks - Warren

[1of1TA1.0]

The parts were purchased off of this forum from a member. It was something he had purchased from a supplier and then decided not to use them as he ordered a new ACR. That is why I got that price on the 4x rotors, 4x calipers, 4x Pin Kits for each caliper and Pads all the way around. I have then purchased the rear knuckles at $2,041 each. I just realized I needed the Pad Clips and ordered those today for $42 dollars and they are coming with additional pins at that price.

The knuckles are definitely different, they have longer length mounting pads for the brake caliper and the emergency brake. They aren't much different in appearance but they are obviously different. I will take much more detailed pictures this weekend when I mount everything up. I have included the parts list in this thread already. The brake code for the CCB/CCM option is BRM. anything on the parts list with that code is unique for the ACR set up. All other parts are universal for the Gen V. The front knuckles are a universal part.

I know some worry about whether the ABS or Stability control will be affected by this but I am almost certain it won't. Why do I say almost, anything is possible. Why am I so sure it will work, the system doesn't know if it has the stock brakes on it, a VE BBK, an Racing Brake kit or what I am doing. The ABS may kick in earlier or later however depending on programming that was changed for the ACR. Also, the pad wear sensors that the ACR uses will not be hooked up but this just means the user will have to be more aware of brake pad life as there won't be any audible indicator.

Hope this helps and I will definitely be more detailed with this.

[Racingbrake]

Appreciated.

Below is an illustration showing the possible offset difference between knuckles of ACR and CCB (ACR-E) that we predict.



If this offset variation is proven to be the case, then we might be able to offer other alternative solution that G5 members can re-use their existing calipers and spindle knuckle.

Nevertheless, for what you have paid for and get you are in great shape.

[1of1TA1.0]

Warren,

Let me know if these dimensions help you. They are not perfectly accurate but VERY close. I didn't have a straight edge readily available to be super precise. This view makes it look like it's not centered on the bolt hole but it is.

[Racingbrake]

We have CMM that can make precise measurement but yours is good enough to tell the difference.

As a comparison, if you can take the same measurement on your existing knuckles, it should read around 81-82mm.

[1of1TA1.0]

I sure will, I figured it would be. Let you know this weekend

[1of1TA1.0]

BIG UPDATE

Well they are on and everything fits. To cut to the chase however, I ordered the wrong rear brake clips so I have not driven the car more than in the drive way to settle the suspension.

It was very straight forward and went on without ANY issues. I will say I miss my lift, I did everything on jack stands. I am getting to old for jack stands lol.

So onto some of the pertinent info, I weighed everything so I could let you guys know what saved weight and what added weight. It is pretty amazing that it actually added 3.4 lbs. to the car. I weighed everything on a bathroom scale but it is pretty accurate. I also took detailed pictures on the rear knuckle. The ears are roughly 5 mm. longer than the factory Gen V parts. So to share some photos now,

Weights:

ACR Front Wheel and Tire 52 lbs.
ACR Rear Wheel and Tire 68.4 lbs.

Sidewinder II Front Wheel and Pirelli Corsa Tire 43 lbs.
Sidewinder II Rear Wheel and Pirelli Corsa Tire 57 lbs.

ACR Front Rotor 13 lbs.
ACR Rear Rotor 10.5 lbs.

TA 1.0 Brembo Front Rotor 21.8 lbs.
TA 1.0 Brembo Rear Rotor 21.8 lbs.

ACR Front Caliper with Pads and Pins 14.4 lbs.
ACR Rear Caliper with Pads and Pins 9.0 lbs.

TA 1.0 Front Caliper with Pads and Pins 11.0 lbs.
TA 1.0 Rear Caliper with Pads and Pins 11.0 lbs.

Total difference is 3.4 lbs so I guess I need to look for a lighter wheel and tire combo!

Beginning of the project:







Front Brake Set Up stock



Rear Brake Set Up stock

[1of1TA1.0]

Front Install





Rear Install













This is where the pad clips are missing from, I will order them on Monday.



Comparison of the Knuckles



Original









Final Install, I will take better pictures possibly tomorrow

[Arizona Vipers]

So from what I'm reading, if you take the wheels/tires out of the equation, the CCB setup saves 37.4 lbs over the TA brakes.
I wonder if there are any savings over the track pack brakes setup, as they are very light. Anyone know what the track pack stoptech rotors and calipers weigh?