Installing Used Parts-Several Questions-Headers, Gen 5 Intake, Mopar PCM

[stallion114]

So I finally have all my parts together that I purchased used from other members/ebay and have a couple questions.

1)Mopar PCM, It came out of an 08 SRT vert which is the same as my vehicle. I spoke Hendrick Dodge Birmingham and they said they cant guarantee that it will work on my car but are willing to follow the directions and give it a try. I am giving them the instructions that Mark J posted back in 2009. I told the dealer that the VIN will not be able to change. Would the instructions be the same for a new install vs a used one?

2)Gen 5 Intake Manifold-The one I purchased did not come with the bolts. Can I just reuse my existing bolts from the Gen 4 manifold for the gen 5 manifold?

3)headers-installing a full belanger setup-What parts do I need to complete the install? Is it recommended to reuse the bolts from the factory exhaust manifolds? Am I to reuse the manifold gaskets as well or should I order new ones? If so any recommendations?

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

So I finally have all my parts together that I purchased used from other members/ebay and have a couple questions.

2)Gen 5 Intake Manifold-The one I purchased did not come with the bolts. Can I just reuse my existing bolts from the Gen 4 manifold for the gen 5 manifold?

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

No, the bolts are different. The P/N for the bolts: 06510753AA

I offer compression limiters that make the installation easier as well.

Thanks
Doug

[stallion114]

Ouch the bolts are $50 for 20. But big thanks on the part number.

Those compression limiters look really nice. If I didn't have free machining via my dad it would be a no brainer. Im thinking about getting them anyway so I don't have to mail them to his shop and waste a week transiting.

[XSnake]

Ouch the bolts are $50 for 20. But big thanks on the part number.

Those compression limiters look really nice. If I didn't have free machining via my dad it would be a no brainer. Im thinking about getting them anyway so I don't have to mail them to his shop and waste a week transiting.

You can go to ACE and find them for much cheaper.

[stallion114]

Can anyone confirm if the mopar install instructions are the same for installing a used one?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Can't paste the link from my phone but look at my website under the intake manifold compression limiters for instructions, it will give you an idea.

[stallion114]

I'll definitely use your instructions for the manifold.
I should of clarified on my last post, I was wanting to know if the install instructions are the same for a used pcm being installed by the dealer

[Steve M]

This thread was useful for me:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...on-Gen-4-Viper

I used Doug's compression limiters (very nice BTW), and torqued mine down to 85 in-lbs. It's been running great ever since.

[stallion114]

Dropped my viper at Hendricks Friday morning, they finally got on it in he afternoon, and then called and said I needed to drive it past 20mph so the computer would learn. it was raining so he couldn't complete the drive portion of the install. I went over that afternoon after it dried up a bit and tech assured me it was all complete and to just do the drive portion per the instructions without the starscan hooked up. I told the TecH I wanted to bring it back Monday to make sure it said "learned". In hindsight I knew better but didn't want to leave it at the dealer until Monday. I followed the instructions running to 50 in 2nd and letting it slow on its own to 20 several times. The burble was gone and skip shift light wasn't lighting so I knew it was at least headed in the right direction.
Got in a rural area and got on it a bit, redlined 3rd and went into limp mode. I restarted it and made my way home with cel on. Once I got home I tried to do the final learn procedure of letting it idol with and without Ac and the thing lost all power. (I assumed bad battery connection). Came out an hour later and she fired up. I completed the idle learns when I went to start it after the final idle learn I lost all power again.

So now I have 2 questions:
1) any tips on what the electrical issue is? I tried disconnecting and reconnecting the battery and I get power back but when I hit the start button it clicks and then lights out no power. I'm assuming this is just a loose connection but I'm not sure where a common loose point would be.

2)if they hookup the starscan on Monday will they be able to tell if the car learned the computer or not? Should I just tell them to do the install again?

[Steve M]

If you take it back, I'd have them redo the throttle relearn for the PCM. It shouldn't be going into limp mode at WOT...was the limp mode the spitting and sputtering kind, or the kind where you lose power and basically can't go over 2k RPMs? Any idle adaptives that the PCM needs to learn it will do on its own, and is not something you can really check (at least not easily, and probably not with the dealer's scan tool).

As for the battery, how old is it? It might be time for a new one...these cars tend to eat batteries when they just sit around not connected to a battery tender of some sort.

[Rmj]

Check your battery connections very well. There are clamps that go around the posts and studs that secure the cable to the clamps. My ground cable nut was loose on the stud and caused the exact same problem. Impossible to tell with a visual inspection; put a wrench on them. Both ground and power cables are attached this way. I'd check all four connections closely; clamps and cables.
Rmj

[stallion114]

When it went into limp mode it would not allow the engine to go over 2k.
So when I bring it back should I just tell them to do the throttle relearn as in the one where they depress the gas several times and not drive it? Or should they redo the actual test drive portion? I'm just trying to figure out what to tell them. If it was a new pcm I'd probably just ride it out and see if I got another cel/limp mode before bringing it back, but since it's a used one I'm worried it's just keeping the previous owners data and running per his/her car.
Basically what would you do in my situation?



For the electrical:
Battery just got replaced last week so I'm thinking its a connection. I just tested the terminals and the battery cables in the trunk and they were both reading 12.73. Then went to start it and voila fired right up. I took it for a 10 minute cruise and seemed to be running strong with no issues. Where else might there be a bad connection? Also this probably sounds like a dumb question but how do I check to voltage at the front of the car?

Really appreciate the help Steve.

@RMJ I am going to look at the clamps closer tomorrow afternoon. That would make sense that it is completely shorting out. the clamps don't match and it almost looks like previous owner used types of bolts, etc. Might just stop by autozone and by replacements to rule that out if it isn't the issue.

[Steve M]

For checking the voltage in the engine bay, use the positive terminal that's located next to the fuse box...you can ground your multi-meter to the frame or wherever is convenient.

I'm honestly not sure if the throttle relearn needs to be redone, so I'd disregard my previous comment...if it didn't take, the car probably wouldn't run, so the fact that you don't have any other issues suggest it might be something else.

What other mods are done to the car, specifically with the air box/intake? Stock air box, stock paper filter? Does it connect to the throttle bodies with smooth tubes or the stock accordion tubes? Is the rain deflector located in the hood opening still in place? The only time I've run into this issue was when I tried running without the rain deflector installed in the hood - it ran, but would go into that kind of limp mode at the top of 3rd gear (130+ MPH). I put the rain deflector back in, and it ran great with no issues. I've left that deflector alone ever since.

[stallion114]

it has the k&n intake and it does not have a rain deflector.
I didn't even know anything was supposed to do in the intake scoop on the hood. I've been caught in the rain a couple times too!

Full Belanger and Gen 5 intake should be in by next weekend. Wanted to knock out the pcm first.

[Rmj]

I would find the electrical problem and fix it; clear the cel (it went into limp from over-revving-mine did it a lot when I first got the mopar pcm-easy to redline, you'll relearn the power curve); then drive it for awhile to get ALL of the new adaptives-it takes awhile.
Rmj

[stallion114]

Got the belanger in. I always liked the sound of my exhaust ok, and suspected it was already a Corsa. Once the sills were dropped this was confirmed.
Belanger is much louder but not obnoxious imo.

Put it in limp mode three times yesterday. It had just rained and based on the code I am thinking it is the rain deflector. Can anyone confirm that this is the correct part number? 05030575AA (listed as air deflector)

[Steve M]

According to the diagram I saw after looking up that part number, that appears to be correct.

[stallion114]

Updating my progress. I installed the headers but I am throwing code P2174 "sudden low airflow detected" every time I get on it. (same code I got after PCM install). I had gotten this code randomly prior to the PCM but it became more prevelant after the PCM and now with the headers it has happened everytime I go WOT in 2nd or up.
When it throws the code I get limp mode and a CEL.

I ordered the rain deflector part and it delivers today but I don't think that is the same code others have been getting with the rain deflector. If the rain shield doesnt solve the issue should I go ahead and swap out the K&N typhoon for a stock intake box?
I would have already tried this but it came on the car without the stock box so I need to purchase one.
Could this possibly be a bad MAP sensor? I am noticing that the car smells rich when I get back in the driveway after a cruise.
Also sounds like its missing at the very top of the powerband. The exhaust note starts breaking up under WOT between 5K-6K.

Hopefully the rain shield solves all the problems. I am holding off on the gen 5 intake install until I get this ironed out.

[Steve M]

I'm guessing the rain deflector alone won't solve your problems...where are you located? Close to anyone that could let you borrow a Gen 4/5 air box for a little bit to see if that's the issue?

In general, intake modifications will make the car run rich...fuel trims will take care of most of it, but they can only adjust so far, and they certainly don't work at WOT.

[stallion114]

I'm located in Birmingham AL.

Well the good news is the rain deflector appears to have solved my cel and limp mode issues. 0 cel or Lino modes after several drives.

Bad news is the high rom stutter is still happening. (I didn't expect the rain shield to help on this)
This issue only started after the headers so while normally I would start with replacing plugs and wires I'm thinking it is likely something else.

Any suggestions on what to look at or test for this issue? It starts stuttering around 4.5k-redline. I also notice the tach barely bounces at idle and I don't think it started doing this until post header install.

[Steve M]

I'd start with the plugs and wires, making sure that the wires are seated properly on both ends of the connection. Also make sure none of the plugs got cracked during the header install...spark plugs and wires aren't too bad to do on a Gen 4 Viper. Glad to hear the rain deflector seemed to fix your limp mode issues.

[stallion114]

I checked all the plug wires this morning and they were all seated well. I actually did some googling for "missing high rpm after headers" and found a couple threads on the vette forum where people with the exact same symptoms were caused from cracked plugs. I actually went to pep boys right before close and picked up 8 champion 3032 and 2 3132 that I gapped at the counter. They only had 8 3032 in stock but I read the 3132 are same without pre gapping. I've pulled 8 so far and I'll post pics in a bit. It had autolite double platinums installed so I'm assuming they had been changed before. I worst case I'm out $35 but it seems like the champions are the preferred plug anyway.
Do you actually torque the plugs or just go with tightening them 1/2 turn?

Appreciate the help Steve M

[stallion114]

Think I found the culprit! 9th one out has a full crack through it.

[Steve M]

A crack would do it...I can never get a torque wrench to fit, so I just tighten them down by hand and hope for the best. I've never had an issue doing it that way with my old Camaro (which was even more of a PITA), and now with this Viper.

Let us know if that fixes the high load, high RPM miss.

[Steve M]

Oh, and I also use the Champion 3032 plugs...they were the OEM plugs, so I just stuck with them. The ones I pulled out around 11-12k miles looked pretty good, but I replaced them anyway.