Is much of the old crowd here?

[ViperGTS]

well, i can tell you where i have been - away. far away. after leslie and i became moderators, we saw alot of things behind the scenes that we werent comfortable with. we werent sure what was going on, but we knew something was going on.

i remember when Chris was moved ("elected") from one position to another. (cant remember the exact details now). from president to something else i believe? anyway, written notices would come out from "other people", but i could tell it was Chris writing them, even though it had some elses name on them, i knew better.

because the marshalls hated johnb, we were asked (told) by chris to specifically target him. not from leslie and i, but Jonb always had a target on his back and never had a chance no matter what he did. chris' problem was i have always liked Jonb and consider him a friend, but i wasnt about to target anyone on the boards.

if we werent on the boards 24/7, we would get nasty pm's about it. i guess it was our fault that we had a job, or a life, or something besides the VCA. lee apologized once for his little nasty gram, but it went in one ear and out the other because we knew he meant it. and if you havent figured it out by now, lee has a very bad habit of doing that - saying or doing something stupid, then being forced to apologize for it later.

mary was relentless with pm's about do this, do that. i think she had an even bigger hand in the clubs activities than we all think. IMO, the comment "my presidents" was a good indicator of her mindset within the club.

i also never did like the whole VPA/Parts Rack conflict, especially knowing about most of the whole marshall/jonb history. but we were always told to heavily promote the VPA by Chris. i assumed part of it was Chris' hate for Jonb and chris probably wanting the hurt Jonb financially, but now we know Chris also benefited financially from the VPA.

i could go on and on. leslie and i are good friends. she is a wonderful person. we talked alot back then and still do occasionally today. but after a ton of emails, we both decided we had enough and quit the club about same time to save our good names. IMO, about the time the VPA was formed, is about the time the VCA was no longer fun for us and everyone else and started its downhill slide.

i came back, out of curiosity, to see what was going on after i got an email that basically said the HMS VCA-Titanic had hit an iceberg and was starting to sink. the "letter of doom" and everything that happened after that proved to me my gut suspicions were right.

why did i stay? because of alex. i have casually known alex for a long time, and i think i have a very good idea what he is all about by now. even though the VCA accuses him of being a member of "the last regime", he was not a DISHONEST part of that regime. big difference. a corrupt and dishonest few does not mean everyone else is corrupt and dishonest too. alex's (and other peoples) frustration can be heard in that phone recording that was made when lee was making a fool of himself again. janni, city, and a few others were just the icing on the cake for me. i know alot of us (especially the old timers) still have our guards up right now, but getting a club back under the control by the right people is a great start, and i think given a little time, we will be able to let our guards back down and have fun again real soon.

[City]

well, i can tell you where i have been - away. far away. after leslie and i became moderators, we saw alot of things behind the scenes that we werent comfortable with. we werent sure what was going on, but we knew something was going on.

i remember when Chris was moved ("elected") from one position to another. (cant remember the exact details now). from president to something else i believe? anyway, written notices would come out from "other people", but i could tell it was Chris writing them, even though it had some elses name on them, i knew better.

because the marshalls hated johnb, we were asked (told) by chris to specifically target him. not from leslie and i, but Jonb always had a target on his back and never had a chance no matter what he did. chris' problem was i have always liked Jonb and consider him a friend, but i wasnt about to target anyone on the boards.

if we werent on the boards 24/7, we would get nasty pm's about it. i guess it was our fault that we had a job, or a life, or something besides the VCA. lee apologized once for his little nasty gram, but it went in one ear and out the other because we knew he meant it. and if you havent figured it out by now, lee has a very bad habit of doing that - saying or doing something stupid, then being forced to apologize for it later.

mary was relentless with pm's about do this, do that. i think she had an even bigger hand in the clubs activities than we all think. IMO, the comment "my presidents" was a good indicator of her mindset within the club.

i also never did like the whole VPA/Parts Rack conflict, especially knowing about most of the whole marshall/jonb history. but we were always told to heavily promote the VPA by Chris. i assumed part of it was Chris' hate for Jonb and chris probably wanting the hurt Jonb financially, but now we know Chris also benefited financially from the VPA.

i could go on and on. leslie and i are good friends. she is a wonderful person. we talked alot back then and still do occasionally today. but after a ton of emails, we both decided we had enough and quit the club about same time to save our good names. IMO, about the time the VPA was formed, is about the time the VCA was no longer fun for us and everyone else and started its downhill slide.

i came back, out of curiosity, to see what was going on after i got an email that basically said the HMS VCA-Titanic had hit an iceberg and was starting to sink. the "letter of doom" and everything that happened after that proved to me my gut suspicions were right.

why did i stay? because of alex. i have casually known alex for a long time, and i think i have a very good idea what he is all about by now. even though the VCA accuses him of being a member of "the last regime", he was not a DISHONEST part of that regime. big difference. a corrupt and dishonest few does not mean everyone else is corrupt and dishonest too. alex's (and other peoples) frustration can be heard in that phone recording that was made when lee was making a fool of himself again. janni, city, and a few others were just the icing on the cake for me. i know alot of us (especially the old timers) still have our guards up right now, but getting a club back under the control by the right people is a great start, and i think given a little time, we will be able to let our guards back down and have fun again real soon.

Thanks for that effort Big!

There was so much manipulation and deception for so long that it becomes difficult to believe half of what you actually witnessed after a time. Time should heal most of this, but as I mentioned, it is VERY difficult for some (myself included). So those that want only "peace" on this forum are certainly entitled to it, as are all of us. Vindictiveness resulting from the past is no fun for any of us. But I think some need to better understand just how disingenuous a small group of leaders were and how so many Viper enthusiasts were negatively effected by their greed and complete lack of ethics. Speaking for myself, it doesn't make it any easier to "move on" when the "new enlightened group" is STILL acting underhanded.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Much thanks to Big, Leslie, City, and of course Drummer . . . . . . . . "It is NOT paranoia when they really ARE out to get you."

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

In reply to old-timers and Hisssstory: . . . . . .

Martin, I would actually enjoy a 'good old days' area to discuss fond, [and maybe even some not-so-fond] memories, and Viper as well as club trivia. As when the old club had only the Car&Driver BBS that myself, GaryL, Ivan, Dean3 helped create and build, with the knowledge and background participation of Team Viper in fact! Hard to believe, but I was the 'moderator' to that C&D BBS! It stayed up and running for almost 3 years BEFORE the club had a forum. How many here remember that forum? It may be what Martin mentioned..... . . . . . . . .

The original Team Viper has an annual reunion, and a LOT of trivia gets swapped at those events. That event ALONE would make a great Viper Quarterly Story.......

I clearly remember when Janni was a newbee! A smart, inquisitive newbee......I answered thousands of inquires back then and she was the ONLY female owner that I can recall posting, and driving-tracking in that early time.

[Dave97GTS]

I'm not a day 1 member but been around since 2001. I was more active on the other board in the early 2000's. I stopped being active on that other board several years ago because I didn't like the Kool-Aid they were serving. I continued my membership with the VCA (including Venom level) all those years until 7 days ago. I have however, been a JonB fan and customer since day 1 if that counts for anything.

[Shooter]

well, i can tell you where i have been - away. far away. after leslie and i became moderators, we saw alot of things behind the scenes that we werent comfortable with. we werent sure what was going on, but we knew something was going on.

i remember when Chris was moved ("elected") from one position to another. (cant remember the exact details now). from president to something else i believe? anyway, written notices would come out from "other people", but i could tell it was Chris writing them, even though it had some elses name on them, i knew better.

because the marshalls hated johnb, we were asked (told) by chris to specifically target him. not from leslie and i, but Jonb always had a target on his back and never had a chance no matter what he did. chris' problem was i have always liked Jonb and consider him a friend, but i wasnt about to target anyone on the boards.

if we werent on the boards 24/7, we would get nasty pm's about it. i guess it was our fault that we had a job, or a life, or something besides the VCA. lee apologized once for his little nasty gram, but it went in one ear and out the other because we knew he meant it. and if you havent figured it out by now, lee has a very bad habit of doing that - saying or doing something stupid, then being forced to apologize for it later.

mary was relentless with pm's about do this, do that. i think she had an even bigger hand in the clubs activities than we all think. IMO, the comment "my presidents" was a good indicator of her mindset within the club.

i also never did like the whole VPA/Parts Rack conflict, especially knowing about most of the whole marshall/jonb history. but we were always told to heavily promote the VPA by Chris. i assumed part of it was Chris' hate for Jonb and chris probably wanting the hurt Jonb financially, but now we know Chris also benefited financially from the VPA.

i could go on and on. leslie and i are good friends. she is a wonderful person. we talked alot back then and still do occasionally today. but after a ton of emails, we both decided we had enough and quit the club about same time to save our good names. IMO, about the time the VPA was formed, is about the time the VCA was no longer fun for us and everyone else and started its downhill slide.

i came back, out of curiosity, to see what was going on after i got an email that basically said the HMS VCA-Titanic had hit an iceberg and was starting to sink. the "letter of doom" and everything that has happened after that, proved to me my gut suspicions were right all along.

why did i stay? because of alex. i have casually known alex for a long time, and i think i have a very good idea what he is all about by now. even though the VCA accuses him of being a member of "the last regime", he was not a DISHONEST part of that regime. big difference. a corrupt and dishonest few does not mean everyone else is corrupt and dishonest too. alex's (and other peoples) frustration can be heard in that phone recording that was made when lee was making a fool of himself again. janni, city, and a few others were just the icing on the cake for me. i know alot of us (especially the old timers) still have our guards up right now, but getting a club back under the control by the right people is a great start, and i think given a little time, we will be able to let our guards back down and have fun again real soon.

Bingo.

So far though, this club is a breath of fresh air. I look forward to a strong and fun club, one that gets back to what it's really about. These great cars and the people that drive them.

And how grumpy JonB is on a Monday morning.

[Martin]

What's really interesting (and SRT should take note) is that virtually all of the old-timers on this board are still around in one form or another - f'ed up politics considered, they're there, although some are hiding out of disdain.

There weren't a lot of people in the beginning, but if you look at the typical half-life of people that got hooked on cars at first bite and invest their time in a club, I can't think something like a Viper that can match the number of people that fell in love with a new platform, a new concept, a "new" way of building American cars, and a fresh way of using social media to bring those people together for common fun - and they stuck with it.

To be honest, a lot of what makes the Viper a cult classic is the passion the old-timers had for it - and that cult-classic status has value going forward.... Just as long as the mainstream audience isn't targeted too heavily (because they will want something akin to the Mustang II or thereabouts). Just kidding - nobody would be that stupid...

Some people seriously screwed the pooch with respect to where things eventually went, but I suppose that's part of what our whole Constitution was based on. Let people give it a shot, make their mistakes, learn, and let life go on.

So far, the new site seems great - and it's got the feel to it that it can be great going forward. Let's see.......

[F15NEXT]

Not day 1, but it will be 16 years this Spring, so I guess that's close. Great memories too...I remember when I ran the 1st crab feast cruise for the VA/MD region in 1998. We mustered at the Naval Academy parking lot, and cruised over to the Eastern Shore for our crab feast. The then president Mike Warner was amazed that we had 25 cars turn out for the event. This past year was my 15th and last, but the club officers will be running the event going forward.

[Drummerviper]

Yeah, in the old days va/md was mostly Va, then mostly Md. I understood that but just didn't want to drive up I95.

Warner was/is a good guy. We also had George Farris and Biff , the window / top guy--VMania.

Many of us had come out of Vettes and when Viper arrived it was like Martians had landed. The miscreants that came later never understood any of that. To them it was a cash cow, and as dumb as they were/ are, they were lucky that others were just as dumb or naive.

That period of a Viper is gone forever, but will not soon be forgotten.

[F15NEXT]

... Warner was/is a good guy. We also had George Farris and Biff , the window / top guy--VMania.

Talked to George just the other day, he's doing great, and will be back East this Spring for the Preakness.

[Martin]

Bring out a direct injected ACR that has no frills on the interior, 740 HP+, 3200 lbs, and is all business on the engine/drivetrain, and we'll see what starts up again......

[Silver04]

Anyone that kept renewing their VCA membership and is now spouting off re: the VCA is kinda hypocritical, don't you think?

[Janni]

Not really - tried to fix it from within in 2012 and prior, failed (cards stacked against change), and renewed because in 2013 it was the only game in town and I still wanted to be part of the local region.

In 2014 - it's a different story.

[LittleCobra]

In reply to old-timers and Hisssstory: . . . . . .

Martin, I would actually enjoy a 'good old days' area to discuss fond, [and maybe even some not-so-fond] memories, and Viper as well as club trivia.

The original Team Viper has an annual reunion, and a LOT of trivia gets swapped at those events. That event ALONE would make a great Viper Quarterly Story.......

Motion to make this happen, any carriers?

[whitebluevipe]

since 2003 and now signed up here.

[big-n-italian]

since 2003 and now signed up here.

awesome! good to hear!

[Schen]

Hmmm...

Not a member by any means, but I guess you could say I'm 'hardcore Viper' for the last 13 years this upcoming May and I've gotten to know quite a few different people that have supported my enthusiasm regardless of owning one or not but it's evolved into so much more than that.

If it wasn't for that enthusiasm, I wouldn't be interested in Mopars. If it wasn't for that enthusiasm, I may not have had an interest in photography. If it wasn't for that enthusiasm, I might not have interest in cars at all.

But with a little help, I've met Ralph, Chuck, Maurice, Dick Winkles, Herb Helbig, Mike Stephens, Mark Trostle, and got blessings and advice from Graham Henckel...that stuff to me is just awesome, I could write a book on everything I've done up to this point.

It's been an interesting 12 years honestly. When I started posting on the 'forums', I didn't have anything else to contribute except for video games and die cast models. Someone with a black and silver Viper HATED that. I could tell when I met him at VOI12. My english, my typing rather, was atrocious and it's funny to look back on that kind of stuff and at the same time it's pretty cool to see how far I've come. I was told when I first joined the forums that there were going to be some people that may not like my posts, so just take it with a grain of salt. I did, never looked back.

So I gotta thank guys like Maurice, Joe Houss, Bobby, the NJ and Ohio Viper clubs, list goes on.

--RS

[AZTVR]

who were drinking the Kool Aid for a damn long time.

I sure had hoped that that tiresome metaphor had been retired ! I must have read it a 1-2 hundred times in the past year ! Talk about fatigue !!!!

[Thawk97]

I sure had hoped that that tiresome metaphor had been retired ! I must have read it a 1-2 hundred times in the past year ! Talk about fatigue !!!!

Not to mention it's a pretty rough thing to casually reference/joke about.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Started VCA with Gen I, dropped out when Gen III was introduced and the moderator announced any anti Gen III comments would be deleted, came back with the Gen V. Started here with Gen V. Still don't like the Gen I & II being called clown shoes. Gen V money is in the bank awaiting and auto.

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Been around since 02 with the VCA.. Good to see some long term viper owners back here, City, Chuck T, Jon B ect...

Good days are back...

Looking forward to the next VOI or equivalent...