Subtle change in marketing

[Policy Limits]

Ill bet less than 10% of owners of all gen's track their cars. I like having a street legal race car for the road. Speculative as to what the next ACR will entail. What might help SRT ( they occasionally troll these sites ) is instead of telling them what they are doing wrong, to tell them what they are doing right (as I have done ie the book & flag) so they continue doing those things. As far as what should be done moving forward, the constructive criticism that is given is helpful I'm sure as well.

I also think that if viper loyalists truly love the car and the brand, then they need to do their part, as I have done, and show real support by purchasing the new, and best generation snake.

[RAY W]

Policy you are right about buying the best Viper made to date. I would want a loaded SRT with all the trimmings but at 130K for the car and the possibility that something better could be coming out I wouldn't get one now. I know there is no way that SRT will add another 50 or 100hp as that would further add to the demise of the 2013-14's still on dealers lots.

[Policy Limits]

Ray no better time to pull the trigger than right now in the dead of winter. Plus, the deals on leftovers are below MSRP, even some below invoice. Hope this helps.

[05Commemorative]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.

Yep, I was. right out of school. In fact had a ZR1 you mention (total crap of a car and had the same problem of today, looked like other vettes, just fatter in back) and got a 65 corvette instead. Have had a 65 AC cobra, 65 GTO, 66 442. I get the rawness you crave. I am just saying it is not enough to sell anymore. totally disagree with you on the 55-65 age group. Go to your typical track day and notice typically dominated in attendance by 911's and the majority are in their 40's. Ask why is that? They are clearly into tracking their cars, they want quality, they want to drive to and from the track, etc. In many ways, the 911 is the perfect example of a car that embraces its roots, but has evolved as well so that it is just as relevant today as it was 40yrs ago (not just 20). Time is moving ahead rather we like it or not and taste do change. No doubt I loved that 65 corvette and Cobra. Easy to work on, sound, looks, raw, etc. Reality though is the performance, quality, comfort, etc is so much better in all new cars today and why in the world would anyone settle for anything less in this price range? If one is fixated with that rawness, then go buy a used older one. If I had sold a 2008 to get a 13, I would be thinking it was one of the best decisions. Better car in every way and since you couldn't really modify the 08, you still can't on the 13, so what is the big deal. better car in all other aspects.

And I will echo what many have said, HP is not and should not be king for the car. Handling, performance, feel, looks, (ie, the whole package) is what is important. For those reasons, when the conv comes out, I will sell my Gen3 and move to the better car. Heck, I am tempted now, I am just not ready to give up the conv experience just yet. If I had a prior gen coupe (unless had an ACR waiting for the next one), it would be a no-brainer (other than the $$ involved).

[RAY W]

Yeah, I think a convertible would do it for me too. I was able to do some mods on the 2008 with the aftermarket pcm. Got it to 590 rwhp. A offroad pcm for the gen V would also help move me along.

[Viktimize]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.

The only problem with that marketing mentality, is that after you sell 10 cars to these so called "loyalists", where do you go from there? You just spent a pile of money on R&D and recreating a new car, all just to make a car to appease these loyalists but that nobody else wants.

[Policy Limits]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

[ViperSmith]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

I'd love to know how many canceled orders out of frustration and never looked at the cars again.

I think we all could have waited just fine, but you have to set expectations better. 2 year wait for a spyder 458, so people are used to waiting for what they want - but again - expectations are managed.

[Policy Limits]

I'm one. After 1/2 of waiting I threw in the towel & purchased a dealer car. It's not a Ferrari; it only takes three days to make one of these.

[ViperSmith]

I'm one. After 1/2 of waiting I threw in the towel & purchased a dealer car. It's not a Ferrari; it only takes three days to make one of these.

Well as did I, but we ended up buying one - but how many just said f'it and walked away completely.

[Troublemaker]

The only problem with that marketing mentality, is that after you sell 10 cars to these so called "loyalists", where do you go from there? You just spent a pile of money on R&D and recreating a new car, all just to make a car to appease these loyalists but that nobody else wants.

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. Maybe they would have if the initial launch of the car wasn't so flub breed. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want, you don't have to hope to lure them over, they are already waiting. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I purchased a 96 because it was always the Viper to own in my eyes. I have already dumped enough into it that I could have made two years worth of payments on the 5. I love the fact I can do anything I want to the car, even a 4/5 top end. That was another thing SRT could have made money on, a conversion for the earlier Gens which an aftermarket company did first. There is a lot of room for improvement and it looks easy from the outside since the car was so well done from the factory. The new breed of buyers got a wonderful block of ice, now it's time to remove everything that the "loyalists" don't want and let our Viper emerge.

[Viktimize]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

Who really knows? All of us potential Gen5 customers like to think that we are the average consumer that is considering the car, which isn't the case obviously. I know all the reasons that I want a Gen5, and because of those reasons the Gen5 is the only new car that fits the bill on the market. I would think my reasoning is pretty well shared among many others, but I can't say for sure that SRT had someone like me in mind when they determined their target demographic for sales?

I want a car that has enough jam in stock form to beat most things I will run into on the street. Turns heads. has all the creature comforts like nice stereo, A/C, leather interior, etc. Holds it's own on the track, yet still very enjoyable for leisure cruises and road trips. And doesn't cost a first born child. Only options with all that considered is either the Viper or Vette. But I hate the idea of seeing the same car on every other street corner, so the Vette is out. Sure I can pick up an SRT for 100k, but I am not dropping that kind of money and not getting the adjustable suspension that makes the car so much more of a cross over between track and street. I could swing the extra few grand to add it as an option, but the extra 30k to move up to a GTS just for the adjustable suspension is out of the question. If I could afford to just drop 30k without thinking about it or batting an eye, chances are my financial situation would allow me to be looking at Lambo instead, and the Viper wouldn't even be on my radar.

[ViperSmith]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

[Viktimize]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

The way the build process is for these cars, I don't see why they couldn't just offer a complete stripper model for guys like you? Like someone else mentioned, I think starting with an absolute base model and making everything a single option with no packages would probably be the best for sales. It is the only to make everybody happy. And it allows guys like me who are on the fence because of pricing, get into the car with just the options we want.

[Viktimize]

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

I'm guessing he would want no A/C or stereo, cloth interior, no power options, etc. ?? That's the way the original car was.

[VENOM V]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. Maybe they would have if the initial launch of the car wasn't so flub breed. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want, you don't have to hope to lure them over, they are already waiting. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I purchased a 96 because it was always the Viper to own in my eyes. I have already dumped enough into it that I could have made two years worth of payments on the 5. I love the fact I can do anything I want to the car, even a 4/5 top end. That was another thing SRT could have made money on, a conversion for the earlier Gens which an aftermarket company did first. There is a lot of room for improvement and it looks easy from the outside since the car was so well done from the factory. The new breed of buyers got a wonderful block of ice, now it's time to remove everything that the "loyalists" don't want and let our Viper emerge.

I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place. Just being honest with you, I think your expectations are unrealistic in today's marketplace. If I love something enough, I'm willing to compromise on the small stuff. A base model SRT is darned close to what you describe, in my opinion. You have a point that the locked ECUs drives away the tinkerers, but this car really doesn't need much tinkering. Those that want to tinker are better off buying a C7 or something. I've done tons of mods to my Camaro, but don't feel compelled to with the Viper because it is so damned remarkable on the road course stock.

[Troublemaker]

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

Unfortunately the stock car is more than I want to buy, I'm not interested in any of the interior fluff that comes on the car, the wheels and tires are something i have no interest in at all. I want the option to order the car exactly the way i want it, not the way the factory chose to option it. Its a hand built car, that should be an easy task. And the single biggest reason I will not be in a Gen5 is that the B&W was only made in a GTS.

[Troublemaker]

I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place. Just being honest with you, I think your expectations are unrealistic in today's marketplace. If I love something enough, I'm willing to compromise on the small stuff. A base model SRT is darned close to what you describe, in my opinion. You have a point that the locked ECUs drives away the tinkerers, but this car really doesn't need much tinkering. Those that want to tinker are better off buying a C7 or something. I've done tons of mods to my Camaro, but don't feel compelled to with the Viper because it is so damned remarkable on the road course stock.

I understand what you are saying, and agree from a certain perspective. I am not paying extra for all the extras, A/C might make the cut. I realize the car isn't what I want at this point. Somebody above mentioned that the 55-65 year old guys are the ones with the resources to purchase it, that is a weird assumption and wrong on several accounts but maybe the current build of the cars is geared more toward that buyer.

I'm glad you guys are happy with your car, and hopefully someday I can join the club. Until then I will settle for my old car.

[ViperSmith]

Unfortunately the stock car is more than I want to buy, I'm not interested in any of the interior fluff that comes on the car, the wheels and tires are something i have no interest in at all. I want the option to order the car exactly the way i want it, not the way the factory chose to option it. Its a hand built car, that should be an easy task. And the single biggest reason I will not be in a Gen5 is that the B&W was only made in a GTS.

Well, then I am not really sure what you are looking for, because SRT isn't going to build the 1992 car all over again. I think Ariel Atom fills that niche of bare bones racer at this point.

If the base SRT is too much for you, then I really just don't understand what you want - you are being unrealistic, IMHO. It just isn't where the rest of the car market is.

(and please don't construe it as being a personal attack)

[XSnake]

I don't want a hypercar Viper. That's the problem now. It's already overdone. As far as the ACR is concerned I am afraid it's just going to be more of the same add-on carbon fiber bits and diff cooler. You track guys would be better off just getting a ACR-X.

Everyone has been asking for more HP, more Carbon Fiber, Ceramic Brakes, and paddles (not everyone on the paddles). Those are not cheap items and the price is going to reflect that

[Troublemaker]

Well, then I am not really sure what you are looking for, because SRT isn't going to build the 1992 car all over again. I think Ariel Atom fills that niche of bare bones racer at this point.

If the base SRT is too much for you, then I really just don't understand what you want - you are being unrealistic, IMHO. It just isn't where the rest of the car market is.

(and please don't construe it as being a personal attack)

My skin is way to thick to be upset by a few comments. You might be right, you might not. I am trying to like the car as is, but a stripped down car at a reasonable price is what I am looking for. Maybe it is unrealistic, but I figured a factory that basically builds cars one at a time by hand could build whatever was ordered. It's cool, the right toy will eventually come along.

I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place.

No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

[Policy Limits]

Who really knows? All of us potential Gen5 customers like to think that we are the average consumer that is considering the car, which isn't the case obviously. I know all the reasons that I want a Gen5, and because of those reasons the Gen5 is the only new car that fits the bill on the market. I would think my reasoning is pretty well shared among many others, but I can't say for sure that SRT had someone like me in mind when they determined their target demographic for sales?

I want a car that has enough jam in stock form to beat most things I will run into on the street. Turns heads. has all the creature comforts like nice stereo, A/C, leather interior, etc. Holds it's own on the track, yet still very enjoyable for leisure cruises and road trips. And doesn't cost a first born child. Only options with all that considered is either the Viper or Vette. But I hate the idea of seeing the same car on every other street corner, so the Vette is out. Sure I can pick up an SRT for 100k, but I am not dropping that kind of money and not getting the adjustable suspension that makes the car so much more of a cross over between track and street. I could swing the extra few grand to add it as an option, but the extra 30k to move up to a GTS just for the adjustable suspension is out of the question. If I could afford to just drop 30k without thinking about it or batting an eye, chances are my financial situation would allow me to be looking at Lambo instead, and the Viper wouldn't even be on my radar.

Get the TA! It's the perfect blend of SRT & GTS! I bet you could get one for 115k! It's the one I would buy hands down if I were still in the market now.

And 130k for a Lambo will only get you a seven year old model. Very outdated and now replaced.

[VENOM V]

Get the TA! It's the perfect blend of SRT & GTS! I bet you could get one for 115k! It's the one I would buy hands down if I were still in the market now.

And 130k for a Lambo will only get you a seven year old model. Very outdated and now replaced.

Gotta agree with Policy on this one, the TA is a damned sweet mix, just about perfect for what I would buy today.

[VENOM V]

No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

LOL, good perspective.

[ViperSmith]

My skin is way to thick to be upset by a few comments. You might be right, you might not. I am trying to like the car as is, but a stripped down car at a reasonable price is what I am looking for. Maybe it is unrealistic, but I figured a factory that basically builds cars one at a time by hand could build whatever was ordered. It's cool, the right toy will eventually come along.



No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

Even hand built needs economies of scale to make it a reasonable price. I am sure SRT would build you whatever you want, but it will be factors more than the $100,000 SRT