Subtle change in marketing

[Troublemaker]

I mostly agree with you, but it depends if taking the sellers or buyers point of view. The seller never wants the consumer to "wait" for the model they want as they are too fickle and will buy the next items that satisfies them.

As for me as the buyer, I want more "basic" options that already exist today. For example:
1) I don't think the base SRT is worth $100k with cloth seats and missing leather. Just not competitive vs the cars I listed above.
2) odd no longer a "track pack" option for the SRT but agree with being included as std on GTS
3) odd I have to have a painted taillight surround on a GTS (luckily added matching color option for 14)
4) why can't I get the TA optional brakes on a GTS or any of the bits if willing to pay for it. If GTS is top dog, then let it be.

the oddest thing to me is the excitement around the TA which is a blend of the SRT and GTS with slight mods and no options. press is good because finally a sorted out car (proper alignment, etc) that didn't exist on prior tests cars.

So, while I agree great progress is happening, still a good ways to go.

I will give you a great buyer example. I would like the following car: (can't buy it today from factory)
1) launch edition blue/white stripes
2) T/A brake and suspension package
3) track pack wheels (machine faces versions)
4) color matched tail light bezel
5) T/A aero but painted to match car
6) carbon interior bits

Turns out, I can't order this car (ie, I can't buy what I want today) even though everything I mention are factory parts. (Jag, Porsche don't seem to have this issue)

In the beginning, I was all about the different models as I thought the flexibility was great. Now, I have changed my tune and prefer it follow true "hand built" motto of options. Let the user choose from the base model and add any of the following as options:
1) two vent hood
2) track attack or ta brakes
3) adjustable suspension
4) tail light surround color options
5) leather interior options
6) speaker options
7) wheel options
8) tire options
9) stripe options

again, all the parts already exist

It sounds like you and I are looking for the same car. You post above, although worded much more eloquently than mine, is exactly what I have said in numerous threads. Offer a stripped down nothing car and let the buyer build exactly what he wants.

[Russ Oasis]

OK, I'll give this one more stab. I think I realize where others may disagree with me now. BUT...here is where I'm coming from: Cars like the Viper (we'll include Porsche 911, the GTR, Ferraris, and the Corvette) are intended to be the closest things to street legal race cars. This is where, while nice, the Aston Martin (I own one) doesn't compare, and same with the Jag. They are sporty GT touring cars. The other track cars listed above are all about "which one is closest to a flat out race car but can still be driven on the street." In that regard, VIPER SHOULD WIN. You know all the scary things that the car magazines squawk about? It's because RACE CARS DON'T HAVE NANNY SAFETY NETS like street cars do. Race cars don't under steer (push) like street cars do. Race cars need to be treated with respect because you have to pay attention and be all over them all the time. If you want a car that's easy to drive on the track at 7/10's, then get the Audi or a GTR. But if you are unwilling to compromise and want the car that is the closest to a RACE CAR, then the Viper is for you. Now, to relate this back to my earlier points, I believe that SRT should market the car in that way. Maybe with a commercial that has a baby in the driver's seat getting a ticket (like the E-Trade baby), and the voice-over says "The 2014 Viper, not a car for babies." I was in advertising and marketing for 12 years, Read the Ries and Trout book and you'll understand where I come from on a marketing basis. Finally, for me, I could give a crap about the leather or the seats or the radio. If the car was faster around the track than any other car and it looks great...that's the ONLY thing I care about. I realize that there are others who don't feel that way...Hopefully, most of them are buying Ferraris to impress girls.

[Policy Limits]

Another marketing dynamic: service. Ferrari dealers work on Ferrari's & Lamborghini Dealers work on Lamborghini's. Dodge & Chrysler dealers work on Darts. most snake owners wouldn't trust a dealer to put air in their tires but would trust Tator's, Mark at Woodhouse. Problem if you're in the other 48 States. So marketing decided they'd have SRT style dealerships which was a Dodge Chrysler dealer paying $25k and getting additional tech training. Insufficient on the consumer confidence end IMO as these guys still primarily service caravans and darts. They need SRT exclusive dealerships to not only bring in new folks to the brand but to also keep the ones in that they have. What good is a factory warranty you are afraid to utilize? SRT dealers as I suggest wouldn't be limited to viper as all SRT vehicles like the Jeep GC would be welcome but the snake would just be the flagship. It would have a more performance based theme and would instill confidence in the consumer, instead of fear.

[Newport Viper]

I think you will see about 80ish Viper "dealers" as time goes by. I just don't see alot of dealers hanging around for the long haul. Even with the $25k they had to pony up.

[Viktimize]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

[RAY W]

Russ, a lot of the new guys don't get that when the Viper came out there were other choices just like today. Expensive, fast Ferrari's,
turbo Porsche's and every option imaginable Corvette's. Yet we bought Vipers that had nothing but a big motor and tires. Maybe because they reminded us of our early 70's muscle cars. Who needed air conditioning. I need more tire smoking.

I want a car that the Vette buyers are afraid of. That steals the thunder from the exotics. A 750hp uncontrollable monster that chases down any car while still having a factory warranty.

The market has spoken. Ferrari and Porsche guys won't be caught dead in one, much less go to Dodge Dealership. The GM guys are waiting for their new baby for 70K. We true loyalist and buyers of multiple Vipers feel like Dodge has forgotten how they got here.

[KRATEDISEASE]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home

Policy Limits.....Sounds like you are soon going to trade in your Viper from the above comments. I know that you get bored of your cars fairly quickly from your new car turnover history. Let me know when when you are bored of your GTS. I will take it off your hands as a favor. I still have my 17 year old 1997 GTS and have never bored of it. I keep my cars (if I can ) forever or until they are just too expensive to keep/maintain. I am waiting on you Sir for when you are ready to unload the GTS.

Kratey

[05Commemorative]

Russ, a lot of the new guys don't get that when the Viper came out there were other choices just like today. Expensive, fast Ferrari's,
turbo Porsche's and every option imaginable Corvette's. Yet we bought Vipers that had nothing but a big motor and tires. Maybe because they reminded us of our early 70's muscle cars. Who needed air conditioning. I need more tire smoking.

I want a car that the Vette buyers are afraid of. That steals the thunder from the exotics. A 750hp uncontrollable monster that chases down any car while still having a factory warranty.

The market has spoken. Ferrari and Porsche guys won't be caught dead in one, much less go to Dodge Dealership. The GM guys are waiting for their new baby for 70K. We true loyalist and buyers of multiple Vipers feel like Dodge has forgotten how they got here.

This is a pure silly statement. The Viper in the beginning had the segment to itself. There was really no high-end vette and was never competing w/Ferrari's. In that original $70k range, there was no competition, thus you could get away with no windows, etc. Having 400hp and a decent look was enough. Today, there is real competition and it is not enough anymore.

Sadly, you are making a statement that Dodge/SRT is forgetting its loyal buyers. How could this be further from the truth when the car's design went back to its roots, has much more power, handling, tech, and higher quality. How in the world did they forget the loyalist. In fact, those loyalist should be buying the cars now in droves and parking their prior models as the new one is just that much better. IF you have driven one, you already know that.

If you want to remember early 70's muscle cars and are old enough to do so, you have already aged yourself and proves my point, you can't build a new car today targeting the 60+ crowd. You build it for the 30's/40's buyers (which most were for original Vipers). Again, I stress Expectations are higher today. If you don't agree, you were never in the market to lay down $100k anyways. Just keep your Gen1/2, tell yourself it was a better car and call it a day. OR, be the loyal Viper guy you say you are and pony up the $$$ for a new one. But don't complain that the car has gotten nicer in every way and then suggest your needs were not being met. silly

[05Commemorative]

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

I actually think the SRT model is a bit confusing. You are right initially they suggested it to be the track car, but really not the case. If so, you could order the track pack for the car (you can't anymore). Also, the SRT model was slower on the track vs the GTS. I agree with your points though. I think the reality is the SRT is simply the lower priced model. no more complex than that

[Policy Limits]

Kratey- I get bored fast & variety is the spice of life.

I'd keep it at least a year just on principal. With so much cool stuff coming out I want to experience them all.

[RAY W]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.

[Policy Limits]

I think it's hysterical how the traditional guys think that the answer is throwing more horsepower at it. Factors such as suspension and engineering are as important as power. Lotus is a great example.

The Gen V isn't the coolest car I've ever owned, but it's one of them.

[ViperSmith]

I think it's hysterical how the traditional guys think that the answer is throwing more horsepower at it. Factors such as suspension and engineering are as important as power. Lotus is a great example.

The Gen V isn't the coolest car I've ever owned, but it's one of them.

The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Kratey- I get bored fast & variety is the spice of life.

I'd keep it at least a year just on principal. With so much cool stuff coming out I want to experience them all.

Totally respect and understand fully. Not knocking you, I am just JEALOUS of all the cars you have had and would be honored to take your "sloppy seconds".

I am a dumpster diver myself. One mans used car is another mans pride and joy.

[Policy Limits]

Ha. New stuff coming out worthy of my test drive: the 991 Targa, Supra Replacement, and of course, the Huracan.

When you're dead, you're dead for a LONG time.

[VENOM V]

The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

Totally agree. My view is that HP is for bragging rights, bench racing, and drag racing. Nothing wrong with any of those but they are not really the Viper's focus. Lap times is what matter to me because they are the best measure of a true sports car - the blend of acceleration, handling, aerodynamics and braking.

Two weeks ago I drove against a bunch of pumped out Cadillac CTS-Vs on the track. They were competing in the Cadillac Challenge, a time trial put on by Speed Ventures. Most of them came in on trailers, most had between 700 and 850 RWHP (that's 1,000 BHP!!!), but yet I was faster than at least half of them. These cars were modded to the max, with big dollars, running on Hoosiers and slicks. My Viper was 100% stock, on MPSC tires that wouldn't bite in the cold weather, and I only had about 2/3 the HP of the average Cad. And they couldn't come close to the Viper Comp Coupes with much less HP that were running 10 seconds per lap faster than them. So there you go, HP aint everything when it comes to a true sports car.

[VENOM V]

OK, I'll give this one more stab. I think I realize where others may disagree with me now. BUT...here is where I'm coming from: Cars like the Viper (we'll include Porsche 911, the GTR, Ferraris, and the Corvette) are intended to be the closest things to street legal race cars. This is where, while nice, the Aston Martin (I own one) doesn't compare, and same with the Jag. They are sporty GT touring cars. The other track cars listed above are all about "which one is closest to a flat out race car but can still be driven on the street." In that regard, VIPER SHOULD WIN. You know all the scary things that the car magazines squawk about? It's because RACE CARS DON'T HAVE NANNY SAFETY NETS like street cars do. Race cars don't under steer (push) like street cars do. Race cars need to be treated with respect because you have to pay attention and be all over them all the time. If you want a car that's easy to drive on the track at 7/10's, then get the Audi or a GTR. But if you are unwilling to compromise and want the car that is the closest to a RACE CAR, then the Viper is for you. Now, to relate this back to my earlier points, I believe that SRT should market the car in that way. Maybe with a commercial that has a baby in the driver's seat getting a ticket (like the E-Trade baby), and the voice-over says "The 2014 Viper, not a car for babies." I was in advertising and marketing for 12 years, Read the Ries and Trout book and you'll understand where I come from on a marketing basis. Finally, for me, I could give a crap about the leather or the seats or the radio. If the car was faster around the track than any other car and it looks great...that's the ONLY thing I care about. I realize that there are others who don't feel that way...Hopefully, most of them are buying Ferraris to impress girls.

Russ, we may not agree 100%, but I completely get where you're coming from. Before I bought my Viper, it was important to me that it was a dual-purpose wine-country cruiser and track bruiser. But now that I've owned it and tracked it, I care less and less about amenities and more and more about it kicking ass on the road course! Love the Viper's soul, wouldn't want it to change it's character one bit. It is the only production car that is truely a race car that you can drive on the street. The others are street cars that you can drive on the track. However, I recognize that most Viper owners are not as track-obsessed as us, so in order to survive it needs to appeal to a variety of people.

What's interesting about the TA is that it isn't that much faster than the GTS or SRT on the road course, but it's marketing is aimed at that race car soul. This underscores how good marketing will sell cars. I would imagine that many are enticed by reading about the TA, but then can choose the Viper that's best for them. The less expensive SRT or the loaded GTS, but they all have the same race car soul. I would like to read that book, you have my curiosity.

[mnc2886]

The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

True story. I think if SRT could find a way to shave off 150-200 lbs from the Track-pak car (3297 lbs), the Viper might be untouched on the track until the hyper cars take a swing. Especially if the rumored 1500 lb downforce of the up coming ACR comes to fruition. You'd see a 1:30 at Laguna if the Trofeos can match the MPSC performance.

[RAY W]

If nothing else is working and people who have bought Vipers in the past want more hp. What's the harm? We're putting up with the stuff we didn't ask for. If you think a 650hp ACR for 140,000K is going to do it. Prepare to be disappointed again.

[XSnake]

If nothing else is working and people who have bought Vipers in the past want more hp. What's the harm? We're putting up with the stuff we didn't ask for. If you think a 650hp ACR for 140,000K is going to do it. Prepare to be disappointed again.

If you think you are going to be able to get an ACR for $140k prepare to be disappointed

[mnc2886]

If you think you are going to be able to get an ACR for $140k prepare to be disappointed

If SRT charges more, they will be disappointed.

[XSnake]

If SRT charges more, they will be disappointed.

Everyone wants a hypercar for the price of a vette. It isn't going to happen.

[Troublemaker]

I honestly think the ACR should be under $140,000. To me all it should end up being is an SRT stripped down to almost nothing, with some high end MCS shocks, whatever aero works, CC brakes and a higher RPM limit.

[VENOM V]

I honestly think the ACR should be under $140,000. To me all it should end up being is an SRT stripped down to almost nothing, with some high end MCS shocks, whatever aero works, CC brakes and a higher RPM limit.

I think so too. If there are high-dollar options, so be it. But the base ACR should be a low-option car but with serious suspension, aero and brakes, and should start under $140K.

On the marketing front, the TA appears to have been a home run. Too early to say for sure, but so far nearly unamomous praise from the media and Viper nation alike. SRT is learning, let's hope 2014 is a good year for Viper sales so we can have an ACR.

[RAY W]

Everyone wants a hypercar for the price of a vette. It isn't going to happen.

I don't want a hypercar Viper. That's the problem now. It's already overdone. As far as the ACR is concerned I am afraid it's just going to be more of the same add-on carbon fiber bits and diff cooler. You track guys would be better off just getting a ACR-X.