Subtle change in marketing

[I Bin Therbefor]

The seats are no longer identified as coming from Ferrari's supplier but rather as coming from the supplier that also supplies the seats for the GTS-R. The same manufacture is named just a different association. This is consistant with putting a lot of marketing money into the racing program as a means of reaching the target audiance. Sort of cleaning things up a bit and making it all nice and neat.

[Troublemaker]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

[johniew398]

http://www.sabelt.com/en/news/Pages/...Viper_srt.aspx

[ViperSmith]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

[Troublemaker]

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

[ViperSmith]

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

This isn't 1996 anymore, as much as people wish it was for whatever reason.

Throw aero on the GTS or the SRT and you'll come to virtually identical times as the TA.

People complaining that it has lack luster performance obviously haven't given it a proper go around the track. Anyone here who has tracked it will attest it is a complete monster.

But hey, lets all remember how fast the Gen II was 17 years ago.

[ViperSmith]

Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Policy Limits]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home

[Troublemaker]

Your first sentence sums it up in a nutshell. You can't go after both buyers, you need to pick a target and give it everything you have, or at least everything the Fiat will let you have. Like it or not, they hold the purse strings now. The car is a good base, but it has an identity crisis going on, they really need to figure out what they want it to be and who they want as their target buyer. The high end buyer they were looking to lure over, has different requirements. Most don't want to or just can't push a clutch in, heck some probably can't even drive a manual. They are looking for a car that is "exclusive", I even hate that I used that word at all, but vanity definitely comes into play over $100,000.

It's a Dodge, even if SRT wants to call it something else. The buyers are out there, but just as SRT has no idea who they are, they may not even know they are them themselves. There lies the problem, the marketing was so bad, neither side really even knew who the other was.

We all have our ideas of what defines a Viper, mine are more old school.

[Jack B]

I am totally with you, the SRT seemed like the perfect car for a dealer's inventory. A little different, but, linked to the SRT is the way every hater/doubter starts with the statement, "$150,000 (or $130,000) priced them out of the market". I didn't realize how much faster a loaded GTS is than the SRT?

Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Nine Ball]

We all know the SRT w/ track pack is the fastest Gen 5.

[Newport Viper]

[Policy Limits]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

[VoodooRob]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

100% Agreed

[Policy Limits]

But hind sight is 20/20 and moving forward constructively what's the answer? Well to start you have a young energetic knowledgeable and passionate CEO with good intentions. You have Fiat now in exclusive control with resources and experience in the Euro market. There's this racing program and some so so marketing(have you seen the TV ad with the Viper in it?). I think SRT exclusive dealerships might work, both in bringing consumers in who are new to the brand and keeping people currently here who are here already. Making paddle shifters an option might make sense. Cleaning up the ordering process is a must. And here's what they've done right & should continue with: the viper book that was delivered with a personalized letter, it felt awesome. The flag that was sent out, another great touch.

[Viktimize]

I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[Russ Oasis]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

[ViperSmith]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

That is pure, unadulterated crazy talk.

I love the fact the car is a pure track monster that my wife loves to ride in to go out to a nice dinner or just around town.

The car itself, everything in it, is outstanding. The issue is and has been the dealer network, launch, and subsequent marketing (which is turning around). SRT didn't help itself by flub after flub - but it seems to be fixing.

I personally didn't know the car was back until way after it was introduced again. Dealers didn't return my calls, SRT didn't advertise what dealers would be able to order well, dealers didn't call back to allow for ordering - so - everything you could do wrong to sell your product happened. It shouldn't have been so difficult to part with $110,000





As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013...ction-numbers/

[Troublemaker]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

I think we are on the same page, the Viper basically created the game, now it's just another player.

As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013...ction-numbers

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

I for on was never a fan of the 3&4 looks, it's justs my opinion.

It's interesting that you mention taking the wife out. Mine loves riding in my " old car", and even went with me to look at the Gen5 at the dealer. Her response was that it looks like the one I have. She actually walked away from the Viper and went and looked at the Challengers. This is where I am now, waiting for them to build the car I want. Nineball's car is as close to perfect as it gets for me, unfortunately every dealer I have been to shot themselves in the foot by stocking all GTSs. The TA might be in my future too, I'll save my opinion until I actually see one on the track this year.

Until then, we will have to agree to having different opinions.

[Nine Ball]

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

FI is a lot of fun, but keep in mind that the Gen 1-3 cars actually need FI to hang with a stock Gen 4-5 car. Those who spent the thousands to put Roes and Paxtons on their Gen 1-3 cars and were happy with the results, will also be happy with the performance of a stock Gen 4-5 car.

[Russ Oasis]

Gentlemen,
Check out the very famous marketing book entitled "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout. They have written an entire series of marketing and advertising books and consult for huge corporations. One of the 22 Laws is that you must NARROW your focus to actually do better in a segment. Troublemaker states that "we created the game (category)." If that's true (and I kind of feel that there is some merit to it) then being the first "in the category," we should own the category. That's in the book. If we don't own the category, it could be our fault for trying to be everything to everybody, rather that the hot and nasty race car that the core Viper owners want and made the Viper famous in the first place . I speak only for myself, but I don't care if the car can be easily driven around town or if my girlfriend / wife likes the way it drives. I want a car that intimidates Ferraris, Porsches, and McClarens on the track. I don't care if the car magazines say that the footwell is hot. THAT'S WHAT RACE CARS ARE ABOUT. All I care about is that we beat everybody else when the car is taken to the track. As far as the dealer network goes, most of the criticisms that you guys direct at the dealerships are deserved. That said, if the demand even by a small group was high enough, people would do whatever they had to (with dealers) to get the car. Dealers are simply the pimple on the ass of an elephant. Finally, do not misconstrue my comments. I love Vipers more than any other car. I have 7 of them and will purchase the Gen V within the next 60 days. I'm just giving you my personal feedback about where Viper could be veering off track with marketing and direction. I don't think it's "crazy talk" to want us to maintain the track record at Nurburgring, VIR, Sebring, Daytona, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. In fact, rather than crazy talk, it's the heart of the car.

[Jack B]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.

I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[05Commemorative]

Gentlemen,
Check out the very famous marketing book entitled "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout. They have written an entire series of marketing and advertising books and consult for huge corporations. One of the 22 Laws is that you must NARROW your focus to actually do better in a segment. Troublemaker states that "we created the game (category)." If that's true (and I kind of feel that there is some merit to it) then being the first "in the category," we should own the category. That's in the book. If we don't own the category, it could be our fault for trying to be everything to everybody, rather that the hot and nasty race car that the core Viper owners want and made the Viper famous in the first place . I speak only for myself, but I don't care if the car can be easily driven around town or if my girlfriend / wife likes the way it drives. I want a car that intimidates Ferraris, Porsches, and McClarens on the track. I don't care if the car magazines say that the footwell is hot. THAT'S WHAT RACE CARS ARE ABOUT. All I care about is that we beat everybody else when the car is taken to the track. As far as the dealer network goes, most of the criticisms that you guys direct at the dealerships are deserved. That said, if the demand even by a small group was high enough, people would do whatever they had to (with dealers) to get the car. Dealers are simply the pimple on the ass of an elephant. Finally, do not misconstrue my comments. I love Vipers more than any other car. I have 7 of them and will purchase the Gen V within the next 60 days. I'm just giving you my personal feedback about where Viper could be veering off track with marketing and direction. I don't think it's "crazy talk" to want us to maintain the track record at Nurburgring, VIR, Sebring, Daytona, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. In fact, rather than crazy talk, it's the heart of the car.

I agree with much of your points, but when you say "that is what race cars are about", you lose me a bit. The car is not a race car and to suggest that it is would be a gross mis-representation. Of all street cars, it might be one of the closest. The reason I have a problem with the statement is to be true, you then would be ok with the following:
1) no interior to speak of (no carpet, no side windows, no heater, no radio, no ac, on and on, etc
2) exposed factory rollbar

Again, lets not confuse ourselves. It is a street car that is pretty good out of the box on a road course. Lets not think that somehow it should not have the modern conveniences of street cars that already exist in $25k economy cars. Seriously, the Gen2 interiors (and the gen 3/4) are much worse that what is in a Kia today. I just say it is time to let that argument go.

The Viper does not own a category. If it did, what would it be? scariest car to drive at speed? Not good on the streets or at the limit? Those are the perceptions and worst yet, many of the owners are actually proud to say that. Seriously, cars are safer, faster, better quality and have more technology and luxury than 10yrs ago or even more so than 20yrs ago. A car with "only" raw performance and looks could compete then because most every other car was crap in the other categories as well. That is no longer the case today.

so, back to Marketing which is purely about getting an audience interested and purchasing your product. So, for the person interested in buying a $100k-130k sports car, the following exists:
1) Viper
2) Z07/ZR1 corvette (whatever they call it) when it comes out soon - not enough info yet
3) Porsche 911 S - great quality, design, reputation - you either love or hate it. manual/auto/conv/coupe, 2wheel/4wheel drive, all options you want, amazing dealer network, history
4) GTR - easy to drive at max. auto only, coupe only - easy to drive is its strength and weekness
5) low end Aston Martin - not as performant, but great looking, sound, luxury, auto only, coupe/conv
6) Audi R8 (V8) - exotic, high quality, luxury, not as performant, great dealer network
7) Jag F-type - great looking, great luxury, auto only, now coupe/conv options

Funny part, the GTS in my opinion has a better interior than many of the above, like the look better than all (except maybe the Aston), better performance than all the above. But no auto/conv options is not good. reputation of scary to drive is not good. reputation of poor street car is not good. Dealer network is not good. Basically, it makes it very hard on itself to compete with anyone that does not already love the history/have knowledge of the Viper.

So, what Market does it own? The one that is not acceptable in todays market? Thus it must change its perceptions in the marketing side. I actually feel the product already has changed towards the right direction. But like I say, just go to a dealer for each of the above cars (I have recently) and walk through the entire experience. You will be blown away on the variations in product, dealer network, etc. The problem is not the product (other than no options for auto and conv), but everything surrounding it.

I am sure I am missing some, but just look at that list for a moment. If you were not a fanatic of any particular car, but had the interest of getting the best car in that price segment, which do you choose? In particular, if you are in your 30's or 40's, which do you choose? I mention that because that is the prime market to keep the car sustainable.

[VENOM V]

This is an interesting debate, but I think some are overthinking this. I think it's simple: Buyers now have the flexibility to choose whatever they want. A stripped SRT (which is not really stripped, it has the amenities that all cars of the current era in this price range should), a TA that really bulls-eyed the hardcore track package for a reasonable price, or a more loaded GTS. Just buy the one you want, and let others choose the one that fits them. If none of them appeal to you, then that's fine, just don't buy one or wait until they do offer a model for you (convertible, ACR, Etc.). But honestly, if you really love the car, it shouldn't be hard to make the compromise of choosing the model and options that most fits what you're looking for.

SRT made mistakes in marketing the initial car yes, but they've really made positive strides with the TA launch. I see nearly universal praise of it, even the media is coming around. And I see more and more previous-gen Viper owners realizing that the Gen V did keep it's snake soul. Anyone that's driven one on the track knows this.

Sure, we'll see more bashing in media, but the Viper will never be the automotive press's darling. It's a rebel of a sportscar and takes no prisoners on the road course. The Viper's not for everyone, which is fine because I prefer owning a rare machine rather than a cookie-cutter Porsche, GT-R or Corvette. For a small segment of the population like most people on this site, the Viper is a freakin' home run dream machine.

[05Commemorative]

This is an interesting debate, but I think some are overthinking this. I think it's simple: Buyers now have the flexibility to choose whatever they want. A stripped SRT (which is not really stripped, it has the amenities that all cars of the current era in this price range should), a TA that really bulls-eyed the hardcore track package for a reasonable price, or a more loaded GTS. Just buy the one you want, and let others choose the one that fits them. If none of them appeal to you, then that's fine, just don't buy one or wait until they do offer a model for you (convertible, ACR, Etc.). But honestly, if you really love the car, it shouldn't be hard to make the compromise of choosing the model and options that most fits what you're looking for.

SRT made mistakes in marketing the initial car yes, but they've really made positive strides with the TA launch. I see nearly universal praise of it, even the media is coming around. And I see more and more previous-gen Viper owners realizing that the Gen V did keep it's snake soul. Anyone that's driven one on the track knows this.

Sure, we'll see more bashing in media, but the Viper will never be the automotive press's darling. It's a rebel of a sportscar and takes no prisoners on the road course. The Viper's not for everyone, which is fine because I prefer owning a rare machine rather than a cookie-cutter Porsche, GT-R or Corvette. For a small segment of the population like most people on this site, the Viper is a freakin' home run dream machine.

I mostly agree with you, but it depends if taking the sellers or buyers point of view. The seller never wants the consumer to "wait" for the model they want as they are too fickle and will buy the next items that satisfies them.

As for me as the buyer, I want more "basic" options that already exist today. For example:
1) I don't think the base SRT is worth $100k with cloth seats and missing leather. Just not competitive vs the cars I listed above.
2) odd no longer a "track pack" option for the SRT but agree with being included as std on GTS
3) odd I have to have a painted taillight surround on a GTS (luckily added matching color option for 14)
4) why can't I get the TA optional brakes on a GTS or any of the bits if willing to pay for it. If GTS is top dog, then let it be.

the oddest thing to me is the excitement around the TA which is a blend of the SRT and GTS with slight mods and no options. press is good because finally a sorted out car (proper alignment, etc) that didn't exist on prior tests cars.

So, while I agree great progress is happening, still a good ways to go.

I will give you a great buyer example. I would like the following car: (can't buy it today from factory)
1) launch edition blue/white stripes
2) T/A brake and suspension package
3) track pack wheels (machine faces versions)
4) color matched tail light bezel
5) T/A aero but painted to match car
6) carbon interior bits

Turns out, I can't order this car (ie, I can't buy what I want today) even though everything I mention are factory parts. (Jag, Porsche don't seem to have this issue)

In the beginning, I was all about the different models as I thought the flexibility was great. Now, I have changed my tune and prefer it follow true "hand built" motto of options. Let the user choose from the base model and add any of the following as options:
1) two vent hood
2) track attack or ta brakes
3) adjustable suspension
4) tail light surround color options
5) leather interior options
6) speaker options
7) wheel options
8) tire options
9) stripe options

again, all the parts already exist