Subtle change in marketing

[I Bin Therbefor]

The seats are no longer identified as coming from Ferrari's supplier but rather as coming from the supplier that also supplies the seats for the GTS-R. The same manufacture is named just a different association. This is consistant with putting a lot of marketing money into the racing program as a means of reaching the target audiance. Sort of cleaning things up a bit and making it all nice and neat.

[Troublemaker]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

[ViperSmith]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

[Troublemaker]

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

[ViperSmith]

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

This isn't 1996 anymore, as much as people wish it was for whatever reason.

Throw aero on the GTS or the SRT and you'll come to virtually identical times as the TA.

People complaining that it has lack luster performance obviously haven't given it a proper go around the track. Anyone here who has tracked it will attest it is a complete monster.

But hey, lets all remember how fast the Gen II was 17 years ago.

[johniew398]

http://www.sabelt.com/en/news/Pages/...Viper_srt.aspx

[ViperSmith]

Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Jack B]

I am totally with you, the SRT seemed like the perfect car for a dealer's inventory. A little different, but, linked to the SRT is the way every hater/doubter starts with the statement, "$150,000 (or $130,000) priced them out of the market". I didn't realize how much faster a loaded GTS is than the SRT?

Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Policy Limits]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home

[KRATEDISEASE]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home

Policy Limits.....Sounds like you are soon going to trade in your Viper from the above comments. I know that you get bored of your cars fairly quickly from your new car turnover history. Let me know when when you are bored of your GTS. I will take it off your hands as a favor. I still have my 17 year old 1997 GTS and have never bored of it. I keep my cars (if I can ) forever or until they are just too expensive to keep/maintain. I am waiting on you Sir for when you are ready to unload the GTS.

Kratey

[Troublemaker]

Your first sentence sums it up in a nutshell. You can't go after both buyers, you need to pick a target and give it everything you have, or at least everything the Fiat will let you have. Like it or not, they hold the purse strings now. The car is a good base, but it has an identity crisis going on, they really need to figure out what they want it to be and who they want as their target buyer. The high end buyer they were looking to lure over, has different requirements. Most don't want to or just can't push a clutch in, heck some probably can't even drive a manual. They are looking for a car that is "exclusive", I even hate that I used that word at all, but vanity definitely comes into play over $100,000.

It's a Dodge, even if SRT wants to call it something else. The buyers are out there, but just as SRT has no idea who they are, they may not even know they are them themselves. There lies the problem, the marketing was so bad, neither side really even knew who the other was.

We all have our ideas of what defines a Viper, mine are more old school.

[Nine Ball]

We all know the SRT w/ track pack is the fastest Gen 5.

[Newport Viper]

[Policy Limits]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

[VoodooRob]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

100% Agreed

[Policy Limits]

But hind sight is 20/20 and moving forward constructively what's the answer? Well to start you have a young energetic knowledgeable and passionate CEO with good intentions. You have Fiat now in exclusive control with resources and experience in the Euro market. There's this racing program and some so so marketing(have you seen the TV ad with the Viper in it?). I think SRT exclusive dealerships might work, both in bringing consumers in who are new to the brand and keeping people currently here who are here already. Making paddle shifters an option might make sense. Cleaning up the ordering process is a must. And here's what they've done right & should continue with: the viper book that was delivered with a personalized letter, it felt awesome. The flag that was sent out, another great touch.

[Viktimize]

I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[Jack B]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.

I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[Viktimize]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

[05Commemorative]

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

I actually think the SRT model is a bit confusing. You are right initially they suggested it to be the track car, but really not the case. If so, you could order the track pack for the car (you can't anymore). Also, the SRT model was slower on the track vs the GTS. I agree with your points though. I think the reality is the SRT is simply the lower priced model. no more complex than that

[Russ Oasis]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

[ViperSmith]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

That is pure, unadulterated crazy talk.

I love the fact the car is a pure track monster that my wife loves to ride in to go out to a nice dinner or just around town.

The car itself, everything in it, is outstanding. The issue is and has been the dealer network, launch, and subsequent marketing (which is turning around). SRT didn't help itself by flub after flub - but it seems to be fixing.

I personally didn't know the car was back until way after it was introduced again. Dealers didn't return my calls, SRT didn't advertise what dealers would be able to order well, dealers didn't call back to allow for ordering - so - everything you could do wrong to sell your product happened. It shouldn't have been so difficult to part with $110,000





As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013...ction-numbers/

[Troublemaker]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

I think we are on the same page, the Viper basically created the game, now it's just another player.

As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013...ction-numbers

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

I for on was never a fan of the 3&4 looks, it's justs my opinion.

It's interesting that you mention taking the wife out. Mine loves riding in my " old car", and even went with me to look at the Gen5 at the dealer. Her response was that it looks like the one I have. She actually walked away from the Viper and went and looked at the Challengers. This is where I am now, waiting for them to build the car I want. Nineball's car is as close to perfect as it gets for me, unfortunately every dealer I have been to shot themselves in the foot by stocking all GTSs. The TA might be in my future too, I'll save my opinion until I actually see one on the track this year.

Until then, we will have to agree to having different opinions.

[Nine Ball]

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

FI is a lot of fun, but keep in mind that the Gen 1-3 cars actually need FI to hang with a stock Gen 4-5 car. Those who spent the thousands to put Roes and Paxtons on their Gen 1-3 cars and were happy with the results, will also be happy with the performance of a stock Gen 4-5 car.

[Russ Oasis]

Gentlemen,
Check out the very famous marketing book entitled "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout. They have written an entire series of marketing and advertising books and consult for huge corporations. One of the 22 Laws is that you must NARROW your focus to actually do better in a segment. Troublemaker states that "we created the game (category)." If that's true (and I kind of feel that there is some merit to it) then being the first "in the category," we should own the category. That's in the book. If we don't own the category, it could be our fault for trying to be everything to everybody, rather that the hot and nasty race car that the core Viper owners want and made the Viper famous in the first place . I speak only for myself, but I don't care if the car can be easily driven around town or if my girlfriend / wife likes the way it drives. I want a car that intimidates Ferraris, Porsches, and McClarens on the track. I don't care if the car magazines say that the footwell is hot. THAT'S WHAT RACE CARS ARE ABOUT. All I care about is that we beat everybody else when the car is taken to the track. As far as the dealer network goes, most of the criticisms that you guys direct at the dealerships are deserved. That said, if the demand even by a small group was high enough, people would do whatever they had to (with dealers) to get the car. Dealers are simply the pimple on the ass of an elephant. Finally, do not misconstrue my comments. I love Vipers more than any other car. I have 7 of them and will purchase the Gen V within the next 60 days. I'm just giving you my personal feedback about where Viper could be veering off track with marketing and direction. I don't think it's "crazy talk" to want us to maintain the track record at Nurburgring, VIR, Sebring, Daytona, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. In fact, rather than crazy talk, it's the heart of the car.