1992 Viper RT/10 for sale not mine with Tan Leather Interior

[Coloviper]

This statement is so ridiculous its funny. How does owning the Lutz car automatically qualify someone as an expert on the 92's? You become an expert on certain cars by researching and collecting and analyzing info on them. Not by buying them. This car is an engineering test car that was very likely taken from the production line to be used for performance and evaluation purposes which may have included some type of interior evaluation. Hell. my 92 has a hard top. How can that be? The car was loaned to Heinz Pretcher, the CEO of American Sunroof to be used for the development of a hard top for the Viper. I'll bet Bob Lutz didn't even know that.

Granger;

Yours is the Dana test car as well correct?

I think it is so important to preserve this history before it is lost forever. These oddities are well worth the price of admission and it is just interesting to see.

Where are the other 6 test cars that are out there?

[Drummerviper]

Call me suspicious. But, who knows? I would think this would have come out loooog before now and I have been here from beginning . Dan makes a good point. And why would anyone "test" an interior color. That's a new one.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I believe I may have the definitive answer, but first I am verifying with one guy I trust as much as I trust my own memory...the problem is, he sometimes asks ME to verify his own recollections too ! Stay tuned...

[Drummerviper]

I will agree in advance to go with Jon. .

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Call me suspicious. But, who knows? I would think this would have come out loooog before now and I have been here from beginning . Dan makes a good point. And why would anyone "test" an interior color. That's a new one.

I can 100% confirm that Team Viper did and does in fact "Test" possible color combos, interior and exterior in the 'styling dome' area of CTC. They use PVP engineering cars to do it. They can change the lighting and reflectifity, etc, and a panel of design and other key staff choose colors.

{"JIM THE COLOR GUY" , where are you?}

[Granger73]

Granger;

Yours is the Dana test car as well correct?

I think it is so important to preserve this history before it is lost forever. These oddities are well worth the price of admission and it is just interesting to see.

Where are the other 6 test cars that are out there?

Correct, originally owned by the CEO of Dana. Mine was titled in March of 94 with 2153 miles. I have the data on all the others. For example VIN#33 was auctioned in March of 95 with 53856 miles. Ended up on salvage title 3 months later in July of 1995. Short life in the consumer market. I bought the car from Dana CEO, so if any one has any questions about differentials let me know. Since the 123 car has so many miles on it and was held for quite a while, there could be a lot of changes. Bottom line it's still a 1992 engineering test car...one of ???

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

..This statement is so ridiculous its funny. How does owning the Lutz car automatically qualify someone as an expert on the 92's? You become an expert on certain cars by researching and collecting and analyzing info on them. Not by buying them......

Granger: You bought one, and THEN you became an expert on the MY ! Did you know all that you know BEFORE buying a 92? Nope. You learned most if it afterwards. I would suspect that the guy who bought Bob Lutz' 92, {in person no less} can take the time, has the interest, and even the STAFF to research the hell out of 1992s after he bought a great one! Hell, he has Bob's home fone and cell phone.....

[nautoncall]

If it's true then that's a great piece of Viper history, but does it make it more "collectable/valuable" than a stock Viper? Who knows....maybe in 20 years we can have this conversation. I dare say it's not as valuable as Drummer's 0002 car owned by the guy who is the reason we are here on this Viper forum debating this very model. I think its all pretty cool for us Viper lovers.

When I read that about the parts from multiple years, made me think of the Johnny Cash song, "One piece at a time"

[Drummerviper]

Thanks, Jon. As always the last word.

[Coloviper]

Thanks Jon, while I should have been working this afternoon, I have had my detective hat on, been on the phone and following up this all. It would be great to find some sources of additional follow up wherever it can come in from.

As far as testing a color, as stated, it could be a glare issue, could be a durability issue, whatever I suspect the door panels and seats could be testing the material supplier itself as it how it holds up, how it fades. There are a lot of reasons why Engineering tests what they do. Sandy Eberling was the original Team Viper Engineer in charge of that very function on the interiors so "yes" Viper did look at that. That is not a new one.

Hopefully you can help Jon. A 1992 is a rare snake indeed but a test car could add to that. Make no mistake, this is not the Lutz car (don't worry Drummer, your car is still the king, which I know is all that matters) or the 500 mile Viper Exchange car that just sold which was never registered. This is a heavily used Team Viper (Viper Engineering) Test vehicle. It was used and abused. I am sure may have been in some of the magazines and high speed track tests. It performed well and is here to stay with it's battle scars.

I am a little amazed at the lack of love for what may have been uncovered here. We have a test warrior in the fight to move Viper forward and rather than accept it or understand it, we have a lot of individuals who just want to see it go away because they do not understand it.

Hopefully you can help Jon. I have a flurry of long time Viper engineers, and owners from the beginning looking into this for verifications. We will get to the bottom eventually.

[Drummerviper]

Hey, my car is no king. It sits on a lift with OE tires, and on a tender. B Lutz drove it 7700 miles. I change fluids , drive it around the block, but my most fun is still conversing with Bob about cars. Sadly , I mostly drive my SUVs.

[Viper Girl]

I am a little amazed at the lack of love for what may have been uncovered here.

Maybe its not a lack of love, but a group of people that want to give you as much info as possible...

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Drummer bought a desirable 1992 from Bob Lutz, but where did Lutz' boss Lee Iacocca turn when wanting to buy a 2nd 1992?

Lee bought MINE! I also helped him restore his vin # 0001 for museum use.

I am currently providing some OE parts for use on a famous 1989 Viper mule for the WPC museum...

Sorry for the brag, but its also fact.....

[Drummerviper]

" No brag, just fact. " Guns of Will Sonnett . Showing my age.

[XSnake]

Okay, boys and girls! I have the scoop on this and will let everyone know after the holiday weekend when things are finalized. My Dad was just getting ready to order a new Hellcat Challenger for himself, but that has instantaneously changed and he is currently talking with the owner on this car. All I can say is wow, wow, wow, wow what a story with all backing documentation!

Sounds like your dad can pull the trigger a lot faster than you can.

[nautoncall]

Maybe its not a lack of love, but a group of people that want to give you as much info as possible...

I agree. I, for one, have bought a car that I thought was a "rare gem" and paid way over what it was "worth" just because I thought it's rareness made it worth what the owner wanted. I believed it and let my emotions and excitement that I found a rare car make the purchase rather than my logic. In the long run, the car was still "rare" but actually worth WAY less I paid for it because it was touted as rare. A clean low mile OEM car was worth a lot more. Rare doesn't necessarily mean it's worth more than what a normal 1992 Viper totally OEM with 34K miles is worth. If you can get it for what a 92 with 34K miles should sell for then great. Just use logic instead of emotion.

[Granger73]

Granger: You bought one, and THEN you became an expert on the MY ! Did you know all that you know BEFORE buying a 92? Nope. You learned most if it afterwards. I would suspect that the guy who bought Bob Lutz' 92, {in person no less} can take the time, has the interest, and even the STAFF to research the hell out of 1992s after he bought a great one! Hell, he has Bob's home fone and cell phone.....

True, but that was 15 years ago. Had a long time to collect and categorize data. I'm sure the guy who bought Bob Lutz' 92, (in person no less) has the money, the staff, as well as Bob's phone number. That only proves he knows of someone who knows the facts, not necessarily that he has first hand knowledge. A little surprised.

[Coloviper]

Sounds like your dad can pull the trigger a lot faster than you can.

Kind of surprised at a negative personal comment coming from a Regional VP. Not sure what I did to you but seems you made a similar jab when I signed up for NVE1 years ago. You have an issue?

[Coloviper]

Maybe its not a lack of love, but a group of people that want to give you as much info as possible...

Kala, absolutely appreciate the help from those willing to help. Don't get me wrong, I over analyze everything so the due diligence is in full effect. While exciting, it is not a rushed wild response to buy. If everything checks out and history verified, that is a different story. In the meantime it is a very interesting oddity that is checking out as the details are uncovered.

Was just surprised by some of the negative comments of some.

[TeamViperSJE]

Interesting reading. This is Sandy Emerling - Team Viper's Interior/Exterior Body Manager from 1989-1998. Just got off the phone with my long-time Viper-friend, JonB - talking about this car.

The tan interior was first available on late 1994 "production" vehicles. This interior was created primarily for the green exterior vehicles - however, it was also available on the red, black, or yellow vehicles ..... again, in late 1994.

This 92 vehicle was built at the factory with a gray interior .... and more-than-likely became one of the many engineering "test cars" we used for development of new features, etc.

The first vehicle that Engineering (my group) created with a tan interior was on one of those test cars - it would have been a 92 or 93 red car, (or even a 94) that we had "painted green" to evaluate this color combination. We even had a set of wheels painted in a tan-color to match the tan interior - which looked really good - but only "without the black top and side curtains" installed.

If someone believes a 92 engineering test-car with a retro-fit interior is worth more than a production 92 vehicle, that is ok..... everybody values different things .... however, in my opinion, it does not make the car worth more $$. Also - as Coloviper said above - if this was a true test car with that many miles on it - "it probably was used and abused" and "pushed to the limit" on many occasions. Everyone on Team Viper drove those test cars to the max - if you know what I mean.

[Coloviper]

Thank you very much Sandy! Great info and awesome first post. Just trying to put the pieces together on this car to make sure what we are looking at is what it appears to be. Price and worth are all subjective just as you say. It is an interesting piece of Viper history, whether a high or low dollar value now or the future.

What is interesting is I never said it was worth more than a loW mile OEM which the argument was brought by others. I just think it is a very neat and rare piece of Viper Automotive history. Being an engineer myself, these are just so interesting to see and maybe own. Hey my 1995 Saleen S351R Speedster was owned by BASF, Ford and Saleen. Ton of first for parts, paint and prototype pieces on it, including World Challenge race components. Just a fun car and brings another dimension to ownership for the right enthusiast. This Viper will add that as well to the right owner.

Thank you Jon as well. John Gasman was getting back to me on Sandy as well. Got to thank Jm Johnson as well.

If you are still on the site Sandy, just curious what Team Viper does with the old Engineering files on these testers once retired. Being car #123,was a documented internal test car, would the team have a folder pertaining to a specific test car? Is info shredded. Just curious.

[Peter K.]

I can almost bet 100% the car was born with gray and then experimented with an interior swap when the tan came to fruition.

[TeamViperSJE]

Read the post I wrote about this.

[BlknBlu]

It is so cool to see these oddities appear even 25 years later. I am sure there are even more with each year of Viper. Would be cool to uncover all of them too.

Welcome TeamViperSJE

Bruce

[Atari_Prime]

Hey, my car is no king. It sits on a lift with OE tires, and on a tender. B Lutz drove it 7700 miles. I change fluids , drive it around the block, but my most fun is still conversing with Bob about cars. Sadly , I mostly drive my SUVs.

This reminds me that I should go for a nice long drive in mine on Saturday, after maybe heading out to a car show. Anyone in OC Cali want to join me?