PCM Reflash. Where to send it and a couple of questions.

[MacGyvers Mullet]

Hey everyone,

I have a 96 GTS with some very simple mods: Cats removed, Roe smooth tubes and K&N filters. I just wanted to keep the car as stock as possible, while removing the cabin heat, lowering the fan temps and opening it up just a bit. Driveability and engine longevity is more important than HP at this point. I don't have any dreams of this one being a 10 second car. Having all of that mentioned, a local tuner said it would be more dollars to sense to get the PCM reflashed, rather than buying a SCT and getting custom tunes for it...given my very simple mods.

1. Where is the best place to get a PCM reflashed nowadays? The viper store looks very reasonable at $400 and they can custom tune it to my mods. Has anyone gotten theirs done from there?

2. Anything I need to be aware of or warnings before doing this? I am guessing this is a simple uninstall/reinstall of the PCM as to where a dealer does not have to be involved?

3. Is my PCM locked up with that tune at that point? If I ever need to go back to 100% stock, would I need to send it back for a stock flash? Or can a dealer just do a stock reflash?

Thanks!

[Dan Cragin]

We have been doing calibrations for the 1992-2006 Viper's for years. We have a calibration for your combination of parts. The 1996 GTS calibration can be updated as well for much better driveability.
Feel free to give me a call.

Dan Cragin
310-597-6295

[dave6666]

Hey everyone,

I have a 96 GTS with some very simple mods: Cats removed, Roe smooth tubes and K&N filters. I just wanted to keep the car as stock as possible, while removing the cabin heat, lowering the fan temps and opening it up just a bit. Driveability and engine longevity is more important than HP at this point. I don't have any dreams of this one being a 10 second car. Having all of that mentioned, a local tuner said it would be more dollars to sense to get the PCM reflashed, rather than buying a SCT and getting custom tunes for it...given my very simple mods.

1. Where is the best place to get a PCM reflashed nowadays? The viper store looks very reasonable at $400 and they can custom tune it to my mods. Has anyone gotten theirs done from there?

2. Anything I need to be aware of or warnings before doing this? I am guessing this is a simple uninstall/reinstall of the PCM as to where a dealer does not have to be involved?

3. Is my PCM locked up with that tune at that point? If I ever need to go back to 100% stock, would I need to send it back for a stock flash? Or can a dealer just do a stock reflash?

Thanks!

1) There are several vendors that can reflash PCM's. Dan Cragin has obviously already posted and is one of the top in the game.

2) No "dealer" is involved. Unless you can't remove your PCM yourself.

3) Sending the PCM out to flash it versus buying an SCT and doing the same is, yes, a one shot tune that you are locked into. You will not be able to return to stock without sending it to someone again, nor will you be able to do future updates either without, once again, sending it out to be flashed.

I do recommend getting the SCT. With a followup dyno session or some simple logging you can gain a lot more.

[My98RT10]

What does "better drivability" in this context really mean? How does it materialize? I am on the fence of getting an SCT X3....
Thanks!

[dave6666]

Driveability is the smooth delivery of performance without a primary focus on your dyno sheet. Too many people only concern themselves with peak hp but the car is a bitch to drive.

[My98RT10]

So you mean less bucking, hesitating, hickups, better gas milage etc....? Sounds good to me ;-)

[MacGyvers Mullet]

I spoke to Dan over the phone yesterday and he is extremely helpful. He inspired a ton of confidence and I look forward to having him take care of the reflash. I am going to get a couple of dyno runs in before I send in the PCM, so he can have the A/F tables and we can see if there is any detonation before the tune.

And as Dave explained (and thanks for the answers above), driveability beats out peak HP in my book any day. I've been in some 9 second street cars and a few are absolutely miserable to drive around town. Plus, my mods can't even get the car into any competitive trap speeds, so why be slower than others and have a crummy running ride. I'll be happy with a smooth ride that is a bit faster than stock. That was the main intention in the first place. It will still be interesting to see what the reflash ends up doing, overall.

EDIT: I will forgo the SCT for this application. I am going to stop the mods at this point and just keep it there. If I was going to build it up further, then most definitely I would invest in a SCT. This will be a one and done situation though. And yes, I know...famous last words.

[Bill Pemberton]

Dan is a super guy and one of the most Passionate Diehard Viper Guys around.

[Alley]

Dan did my pcm about 5 hears ago after I ported my heads. Amazing job and fast turnaround.

[Ricketts]

Another vote for Dan here!

[RPM9000]

Dan tuned my pcm on my Gen1 about 4 years ago. Great job. 498 RWHP. I really miss that car.

[BrianACR]

Is there a good tuner up here in Canada(specifically Alberta) that can do a pcm reflash? Or would I be better off to remove it and send it out to somebody?

[Darth Menace]

Wait for the (long) winter we have when it is stored, and send it out to them.

[dave6666]

Wait for the (long) winter we have when it is stored, and send it out to them.

What is a "(long) winter?"



dave6666

[Darth Menace]

Sorry Dave, it won't let me see your response. The block option works.

[dave6666]

Sorry Dave, it won't let me see your response. The block option works.

No it doesn't. You replied

dave6666

[BrianACR]

Thanks 'Darth'. And Dave6666, (long) winter is a typical Albertan winter. Usually beggining of october to end of April-ish

[Darth Menace]

Winters are way too long in Canada/Alberta, but absence makes the heart grow fonder.

PS Dave, sorry again about your response. I cannot read it. My signature says it all about the typical trolls. Sad life for a 50 year old.

[dave6666]

PS Dave, sorry again about your response. I cannot read it. My signature says it all about the typical trolls. Sad life for a 50 year old.

Cool story bro. I like communicating with you on the forums

Oh. Who's 50 bro? I'm not.

[MacGyvers Mullet]

Just an update to finalize this thread.

I sent the PCM to Dan Cragin, and wow...what a great experience. Dan was super helpful right off the bat and had great communication throughout the whole process. I told him what I was shooting for, which was a mild tune geared towards driveability more than dyno numbers, and he nailed it.

Mods on the 96 GTS are just cat removal, ROE smooth intake tubes and K&N drop in intake filters. I want to keep it as stock as possible, but bring down the cabin heat and stop the rocker panels paint from bubbling up.

The tune (after the mods) brought it from 414hp/457tq to 432hp/460tq. The important thing is the A/F ratio is spot on and the mild lump in the midrange curve is now gone, with a great power through the entire curve. Throttle response is vastly improved, it doesn't has the small bogging issues when cold and the no-cat fumes are 80% gone. He also programmed my factory fan to kick in earlier. This, along with a 180* thermostat, ensures the temps do not even go above 195*, when they easily hit 225-240 in the hot weather. Idling in 90* weather for more than 3 minutes can now be a fun thing.

Worth every damn penny for the driveability and for the peace of mind that the engine will run healthy from this point on. Thanks, Dan!

[dave6666]

Just an update to finalize this thread.

I sent the PCM to Dan Cragin, and wow...what a great experience. Dan was super helpful right off the bat and had great communication throughout the whole process. I told him what I was shooting for, which was a mild tune geared towards driveability more than dyno numbers, and he nailed it.

Mods on the 96 GTS are just cat removal, ROE smooth intake tubes and K&N drop in intake filters. I want to keep it as stock as possible, but bring down the cabin heat and stop the rocker panels paint from bubbling up.

The tune (after the mods) brought it from 414hp/457tq to 432hp/460tq. The important thing is the A/F ratio is spot on and the mild lump in the midrange curve is now gone, with a great power through the entire curve. Throttle response is vastly improved, it doesn't has the small bogging issues when cold and the no-cat fumes are 80% gone. He also programmed my factory fan to kick in earlier. This, along with a 180* thermostat, ensures the temps do not even go above 195*, when they easily hit 225-240 in the hot weather. Idling in 90* weather for more than 3 minutes can now be a fun thing.

Worth every damn penny for the driveability and for the peace of mind that the engine will run healthy from this point on. Thanks, Dan!

How many miles and drive cycles do you have on the tune now?

[MacGyvers Mullet]

How many miles and drive cycles do you have on the tune now?

Not much at all. Maybe around 150 miles with about 10 full cold/hot cycles.

[My98RT10]

Just an update to finalize this thread.

I sent the PCM to Dan Cragin, and wow...what a great experience. Dan was super helpful right off the bat and had great communication throughout the whole process. I told him what I was shooting for, which was a mild tune geared towards driveability more than dyno numbers, and he nailed it.

Mods on the 96 GTS are just cat removal, ROE smooth intake tubes and K&N drop in intake filters. I want to keep it as stock as possible, but bring down the cabin heat and stop the rocker panels paint from bubbling up.

The tune (after the mods) brought it from 414hp/457tq to 432hp/460tq. The important thing is the A/F ratio is spot on and the mild lump in the midrange curve is now gone, with a great power through the entire curve. Throttle response is vastly improved, it doesn't has the small bogging issues when cold and the no-cat fumes are 80% gone. He also programmed my factory fan to kick in earlier. This, along with a 180* thermostat, ensures the temps do not even go above 195*, when they easily hit 225-240 in the hot weather. Idling in 90* weather for more than 3 minutes can now be a fun thing.

Worth every damn penny for the driveability and for the peace of mind that the engine will run healthy from this point on. Thanks, Dan!

Thanks for the update! That makes me wanting such a tune, too :-) . Also, first time I read about the small bogging when cold. This I noticed as well since I have the car. It doesn't really bother me as it goes away real quick. Would be nice though if a tune could correct it. But first I need to get an SCT tuner (still).

BTW: I visited Dan in his shop during my summer vacation in July. Really nice guy and VERY knowledgeable!

[MacGyvers Mullet]

My cold bogging also went away in a couple of minutes and never truly bothered me. It was just a nice bonus to see it fixed.

I didn't go the route of buying a tuner and just sent him the PCM. Dan can price it out for you, but I will at least say it's a great pricing structure. Definitely do it.

[GTS Dean]

Thanks for updating this thread with your results!