Market all whacked up

[2000acr]

You are right about many at high prices. $50K + isn't going to happen on those. I think some look at what others are asking and then ask similar price. i'm sure you've seen this one, to me this is still high, but probably market correct if it checks out. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...19115940&Log=0

That one looks nice- low miles too. I want stripes though. thx

[luc]

Interesting thread. I'm the original owner of a 00GTS, Black/silver, ACR wheels, Corsa cat-back, Mopar smooth tubes/K&N with just under 20K miles and in perfect shape
I know that everyone has a different opinion of what "perfect shape" is but, I'm kind of crazy about keeping all my vehicles in great shape.
Anyhow, fact is that this Viper must have been the cheapest car that i ever owned.
I paid about $75K new and 16 years later the retained value is at least 50% and, If I am to believe this thread, going up every year
Amazing

[COI]

No truer words have been said.

The market is what buyers actually pay for cars.

Regarding VE and list prices - their asking price is pretty high on at least one of their cars. The '98 GT2 they have for sale is almost $60K higher than the the hammer price the GT2 from the Wayne Briggs collection just sold for at Mecum. The Wayne Briggs Viper actually had fewer miles. Yes, the buyer also paid a premium to Mecum but the seller did as well so unless lower fees were negotiated, the seller got low-mid $80's and the buyer paid upper $90's, both of which are far less than $149,900.

http://www.viperexchange.com/vehicle...tx-id-13659708

[Patentlaw]

Respectfully, the market is not what has "sold". For instance, if all of the people have cars that are at 100k and people are only willing to pay 10k and there are no sales, is there no market? The cars are marketable only at 100k. That is the real price. Unrealistic low ball offers do not make a market.

To the original poster.....I think that you are on to something. I believe that you are correct that there is a shrinking number of good cars available. I have been on the record time and time again. All these "tasteful mods" decrease the value of the car. I would not accept that as a car that I would buy. As time goes on, the number of unmolested cars decreases because more people mod their cars, get bored with them. and then try to dump them or get into an accident. It is a simple numbers game.

Unfortunately, with decreasing number of cars, the price is going to go up.

Lastly, why bust on Viper Exchange? I have not dealt with them or even been in their showroom even though I am very close. If you can't stand a bit of puffery or salesmanship, then Christmas or buying a phone must be hell for some of you. Buying a brand of motor oil must also be extremely maddening. Especially when you have to plunk down cash. If this is the worst thing that you have to experience in life, you are very lucky indeed.

[Atari_Prime]

Wait, what? How is the market not what sale prices are? That is the very definition of market value, what someone is willing to pay. What cars are priced at is completely irrelevant.

[2000acr]

Wait, what? How is the market not what sale prices are? That is the very definition of market value, what someone is willing to pay. What cars are priced at is completely irrelevant.

this... +1

[BFoster]

OP: if you decide to bjy your Canadian Viper, make sure to use a good broker for the transport across the border. Crossing the border can be a MAJOR issue. Triple check that your ducks are all in a row before pulling the trigger.


Aaaaand, THANK YOU to Viper Exchange and Woodhouse for what you do for the Viper market. I work for "one of those auction companies" and will agree that the prices you see are NOT reflective of where the market is. It all depends on the day and the time that the car rolls across the block. TV cameras always help prices. I've seen some absolute steals, and some outrageous hammer prices that make you scratch your head. DO NOT use these prices to judge late-model cars!

[harley56]

this... +1

This +2....

Regarding VE, I sold my '98 GT2 to Bernie some years ago. It had 1K miles and all documentation, Bernie stepped up and paid all the money and was great to deal with. Yes, they are above current market on the GT2 they have. I thought the one at Mecum would reach $100K, but with buyer fees that's pretty close to what buyer paid. I think Wayne Briggs could have done better, but as said by COI, he may have negotiated a lower sellers fee. I think $125K is all the money for what VE has and would set a new recent high, but wouldn't surprise me if they get near asking, there are only so many low mileage ones left.

[agentf1]

They have been at the bottom for a while, they will continue to go up IMHO. They are also worth every penny. Nice ones are also getting far and few apart.

[parabs]

Wait, what? How is the market not what sale prices are? That is the very definition of market value, what someone is willing to pay. What cars are priced at is completely irrelevant.

Complete disagreement.

Being in Canada I have been looking for a canadian 2006 Black coupe. Nine such cars were originally sold in Canada. I could import one from the US but that is not my preference, and as a result of my preferences the sale will be largely dictated to me....because I want one of the 9.

Thems the breaks, and if I want to play, I'll need to pay.

[Coloviper]

Pretty easy to import to Canada. My uncle bought my 06' and brought into Saskatchewan, Canada 4 years ago. Nothing more than checking with the Canadian border crossing on what was needed. Filled some papers out beforehand, document from Chrysler showing no recalls and bill of sale. Was easy and painless. No Import agent nothing. You will need to have it inspected in Alberta prior to register but that is easy. Dealer can try on daylights. No change of gauges since it has Kms.

[Patentlaw]

Complete disagreement.

Being in Canada I have been looking for a canadian 2006 Black coupe. Nine such cars were originally sold in Canada. I could import one from the US but that is not my preference, and as a result of my preferences the sale will be largely dictated to me....because I want one of the 9.

Thems the breaks, and if I want to play, I'll need to pay.

What he said.

[Darth Menace]

Ok- So I found a 2000 ACR- black, silver striped. Excellent shape. 14k miles. 43500$ Worth it? Also Id have to drive it 3000 miles home from Canada (week road trip), or ship it.

Yes or no.

I could also leave my screen name, as I used to own a 2000acr.

I dont know if you need help, but I imported my Viper into Canada so I can help you with any questions.

[Reboot]

Well using ebay as an example, none of the high priced cars are selling. They just keep getting re-listed.

The issue is at 50 or 60k it puts you in Zr1 range, and very close to Gen 5 range. The Gen II Gts is a cool car, but for similar $$ the Zr1 and Gen 5 are better by quite a bit.

The problem w/ eBay is that lots of times those cars don't sell on eBay. I'm a perfect example of a buyer who bought the car from the dealership directly rather than from their eBay posting. Rather than them get dinged on eBay for fees, I got them reduced in the asking price and they took down the auction. I'm sure many people deal w/ the dealer directly on eBay for these types of cars.

[ClayR]

Just to clarify guys- I am not confused on what the market has been. I have owned 2 Vipers, and a dozen Z06's. I have just seen a lot of '97 solid red with 30 to 50k miles type cars' for 50k$' plus ttl that just sit, and sit, and sit.

The only somewhat unique part of right now is that there are a lot of sellers that think there is some chance of that happening.

All of the reasonable condition cars for 30 to 40k sell fast. Its more of a timing issue.

The market is what buyers actually pay for cars.

I've got a 98' one owner 6K mile red GTS I'd probably take $50K for it. Sellers create a market, buyers enter a market.

[ClayR]

You are right about many at high prices. $50K + isn't going to happen on those. I think some look at what others are asking and then ask similar price. i'm sure you've seen this one, to me this is still high, but probably market correct if it checks out. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...19115940&Log=0

Well we know the seller is bsing when he says the air is Ice Cold. LOL And he uses the photos from when he bought it two years ago?!?!?!
'


RED FLAG!!!

- - - Updated - - -

There is a reason why people try selling on their own, because the dealers aren't stupid, but a lot of consumers are.

[drewsss]

The problem w/ eBay is that lots of times those cars don't sell on eBay. I'm a perfect example of a buyer who bought the car from the dealership directly rather than from their eBay posting. Rather than them get dinged on eBay for fees, I got them reduced in the asking price and they took down the auction. I'm sure many people deal w/ the dealer directly on eBay for these types of cars.

I bought two Vipers on eBay, and in both cases, called the seller before the auction ended and negotiated a price. eBay listing cancelled, no fees involved.

[ClayR]

Wait, what? How is the market not what sale prices are? That is the very definition of market value, what someone is willing to pay. What cars are priced at is completely irrelevant.

I disagree, pricing is HUGE. And as a dealer, we EXPECT a little negotiation.

[daveg]

Worked out great for me. There are many Vipers available on Craigslist. If you know how to navigate it, it can be a great resource.

As did I 4 years ago when I bought my 96 GTS but when it comes to CL, Caveat emptor.