Market all whacked up

[Atari_Prime]

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, I hope they are. But there are several posts here that mention The ViperExchange. I'm sure they are a great bunch of folks but their prices are not and have never been reflective of the market. It's like buying a Corvette from Corvette Mike, they will sell you this line if bull about the quality of their cars being better but its just not true. What you are paying for is the convenience of possibly finding the car you want without having to search for it. On average their prices are at least 5k above the market value for a given car and they hold firm on those prices until a sucker comes along and pays their premium. It's not a good baseline to use for values of the cars. Look at sale prices of Vipers on eBay, Barret-Jackson, Mecum, and the list prices on Craigslist and Autotrader and you will see this is true.

[FLATOUT]

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I would put our pre owned Viper inventory up against anyone's, anywhere. The shop that I personally manage goes over every car that comes in to make sure that they meet our standards. We just sold Chryslers original comp coupe, a Gen V GTSR, a Gen V GT3R, we have a 1992 on MSO, the 98 GTSR with under 1000 miles, a Gen IV 1.33 ACR with delivery miles on it, another 98 GTSR with delivery miles on it. We are maticulous when it comes to the quality of cars we sell.

Good luck on Craig's list.

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, I hope they are. But there are several posts here that mention The ViperExchange. I'm sure they are a great bunch of folks but their prices are not and have never been reflective of the market. It's like buying a Corvette from Corvette Mike, they will sell you this line if bull about the quality of their cars being better but its just not true. What you are paying for is the convenience of possibly finding the car you want without having to search for it. On average their prices are at least 5k above the market value for a given car and they hold firm on those prices until a sucker comes along and pays their premium. It's not a good baseline to use for values of the cars. Look at sale prices of Vipers on eBay, Barret-Jackson, Mecum, and the list prices on Craigslist and Autotrader and you will see this is true.

[dave6666]

Buying a car because of what it may be worth some day. lol.

[dave6666]

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I would put our pre owned Viper inventory up against anyone's, anywhere. The shop that I personally manage goes over every car that comes in to make sure that they meet our standards. We just sold Chryslers original comp coupe, a Gen V GTSR, a Gen V GT3R, we have a 1992 on MSO, the 98 GTSR with under 1000 miles, a Gen IV 1.33 ACR with delivery miles on it, another 98 GTSR with delivery miles on it. We are maticulous when it comes to the quality of cars we sell.

Good luck on Craig's list.

So no one else can check a car over to a top standard but you guys? Or doesn't?

Arrogant much bro?

[FLATOUT]

So no one else can check a car over to a top standard but you guys? Or doesn't?

Arrogant much bro?

Of course people can Dave, but to say we feed people a bunch of Bull and wait for Suckers is a bit insulting to the people in our industry that spend their days and many times nights searching the country for the best available cars in the market.

[ViperJon]

Lol at Dave coming in from left field to take a swing at VE. Have you ever bought anything from them or dealt with them in any way? Cheap shot from the cheap seats. I've never bought a pre owned car from them but I can say without question Viper Exchange gave me the absolute best price on my ACR-E as well as two previous ACR's. And they'll stand behind the sale if there are any issues.

[mnc2886]

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, I hope they are. But there are several posts here that mention The ViperExchange. I'm sure they are a great bunch of folks but their prices are not and have never been reflective of the market. It's like buying a Corvette from Corvette Mike, they will sell you this line if bull about the quality of their cars being better but its just not true. What you are paying for is the convenience of possibly finding the car you want without having to search for it. On average their prices are at least 5k above the market value for a given car and they hold firm on those prices until a sucker comes along and pays their premium. It's not a good baseline to use for values of the cars. Look at sale prices of Vipers on eBay, Barret-Jackson, Mecum, and the list prices on Craigslist and Autotrader and you will see this is true.

As a very recent customer of VE and BJ Motors, I feel I need to speak up here. I just bought a pre-owned Viper from them a little over two months ago. Truth be told, I hesitated slightly due to their advertised prices on their website, but I set an appointment after nearly a month of failed attempts with "regular" dealers. Not only did Bernie and Courtney give me the best price I had been offered so far by any dealership, they did it unsolicited. It was not a normal car transaction of any sort. I was treated with respect and taken seriously from the time I walked in the door and even now months after my purchase. So let's summarize this;

• I was sold an immaculate car for a better price than any dealership was willing to get to.
• My car was looked over by quite possibly the most well respected Viper Tech out there. Fully serviced, fluids and all prior to delivery by the way (and that was not extra). Not to mention, Andy runs that shop with customer service at the pinnacle of priorities.
• As a younger guy that struggled to get dealerships to take me seriously about purchasing the car and test drives, Bernie and Courtney actually were urging me to go for a spin.
• Now after being treated like this with a steller purchasing experience, VE has sealed the deal on me getting my next Viper from them.

Even if I had to pay a little more for my car, which I assure you didn't happen, all the above is worth it. Just put yourself in their shoes. I'm sure you've sold stuff before. Did you advertise at your bottom dollar? There is a reason there are heaps of reviews about them that are overwhelmingly positive from people all over. It isn't just a few anecdotes.

Rant over.

[Coloviper]

Dealership issues aside, the simple truth is all pre-GEN IV/V Vipers are starting to go up. The IV/V are still pretty new hence haven't bottomed out. Can talk GEN IIs all you want but GEN Is will be the first to really climb %-wise considering you have no story examples out there with 5,000 miles selling under $30k which is crazy.

A blind man on a galloping horse can see the older ones are on the way up. Better get them while you can. As far as buying to only make money, not the main reason for buying as should have passion first and be smart with your choice but who wants to lose massive amounts of money if you do not have to? Buy smart, enjoy the car and on the side, hope for luck because a lot of the car collecting community with acceptable appreciation is luck and timing.

But keep eyes open as a lot of junk out there.

[XSnake]

Your first mistake is looking at a book when trying to value these cars.

[ZZ SRT]

Dealership issues aside, the simple truth is all pre-GEN III/IV/V Vipers are starting to go up. The IV/V are still pretty new hence haven't bottomed out. Can talk GEN IIs all you want but GEN Is will be the first to really climb %-wise considering you have no story examples out there with 5,000 miles selling under $30k which is crazy.

Corrected. Gen III prices only seem to be going down.

[XSnake]

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, I hope they are. But there are several posts here that mention The ViperExchange. I'm sure they are a great bunch of folks but their prices are not and have never been reflective of the market. It's like buying a Corvette from Corvette Mike, they will sell you this line if bull about the quality of their cars being better but its just not true. What you are paying for is the convenience of possibly finding the car you want without having to search for it. On average their prices are at least 5k above the market value for a given car and they hold firm on those prices until a sucker comes along and pays their premium. It's not a good baseline to use for values of the cars. Look at sale prices of Vipers on eBay, Barret-Jackson, Mecum, and the list prices on Craigslist and Autotrader and you will see this is true.

VE doesn't typcially have your avg. car. Just look at what they have right now. 500 mile G2 final edition, 30 mile 1.33 hardcore, 12k mile G2 ACR, 4k mile G2 ACR, sub 1k mile 96 GTS, etc... They don't deal in your average car so you aren't going to get the average price. You get what you pay for. You want a clean no stories, low mileage Viper. You're gonna have to pay a little more for it.

[Atari_Prime]

Good luck on Craig's list.

Worked out great for me. There are many Vipers available on Craigslist. If you know how to navigate it, it can be a great resource.

[2000acr]

Ok- So I found a 2000 ACR- black, silver striped. Excellent shape. 14k miles. 43500$ Worth it? Also Id have to drive it 3000 miles home from Canada (week road trip), or ship it.

Yes or no.

I could also leave my screen name, as I used to own a 2000acr.

[ICPREY]

If it is truly in excellent shape, then yes. Everyone has their own view of "excellent shape".

[Geronimo]

Paying more for a car such as this from a reputable dealer is great insurance and piece of mind knowing that your getting a premium machine vs a pos that you may have to invest more money in than the dealer price. We all see the cars with problems and the questions that come looking for help.

[Vprbite]

Peace of mind, plus saving yourself a trip to check out a car can easily become a push, money-wise. IMO. Our respected dealers do tend to ask a little more but I think you are paying for a service, effectively. I don't think it makes people "suckers." And no, I haven't bought a vehicle from Viper Exchange so I am not making a homer call here.

Also, I never count Barrett Jackson values as indicative of current market values. I've seen people buy things while pretty hammered because they know they are on TV.

And if all of the cars out there are priced too high, who is the one who is off on their idea of current market values?

[ViperPete]

I'm not saying that prices aren't going up, I hope they are. But there are several posts here that mention The ViperExchange. I'm sure they are a great bunch of folks but their prices are not and have never been reflective of the market. It's like buying a Corvette from Corvette Mike, they will sell you this line if bull about the quality of their cars being better but its just not true. What you are paying for is the convenience of possibly finding the car you want without having to search for it. On average their prices are at least 5k above the market value for a given car and they hold firm on those prices until a sucker comes along and pays their premium. It's not a good baseline to use for values of the cars. Look at sale prices of Vipers on eBay, Barret-Jackson, Mecum, and the list prices on Craigslist and Autotrader and you will see this is true.

I bought my Viper from Bill Pemberton from shitty cell phone pictures. Why? RELATIONSHIP!!! It isn't always about price! I got an amazing deal for my car from him and i don't consider myself a "sucker" because i bought it from one of the "big 3" - and i'm in the car business of 12 years now.

When i was shopping for my Viper, i looked at a lot of them. Autotrader, craigslist, ebay, cars.com.... dealerships... let me tell you.... I found more wrecked cars and more cars with "stories" than i could believe. These cars are a huge investment. It PAYS to buy one from a reputable place. A place where they know the car inside and out- maybe even the previous owner.

It's always buyer beware but for such an expensive item... there are certain cautions one must take.

You going to buy a Yenko off craigslist? how about a Shelby? Lamborghini?

Some things you leave to the professionals.... in my honest opinion.

One day, buyers of Vipers will far surpass the available cars for sale. That day is rapidly coming.

[GABOON]

yes, might be great deal-- I would not sell my '99 ACR for that price! As for a 3000 mile trip you say a week; you are looking at about $250 a day for gas, lodging, food so shipping is going to be less and you do not run up milage on car. You know that we in AZ. VOA made the the run back from NVE1 inside 3 days-- 2000 miles; we also made it back from NVE2 inside 3 days-- 1600 miles. Both trips were easy cruises-- Good Luck!

[f80m3driver]

I always thought the definition of a market is where buyers and sellers come together and a price is reached.

So if that's what they're selling for, then that is the market price, whether you like it or not. You're welcome to disagree with the prevailing market price (many people probably disagree with market pricea for real estate, stocks, classic cars or otherwise), but don't kid yourself into thinking that you're somehow smarter than the market and everyone else is wrong.

If that's what people are paying, then that's what they're worth, for now anyway.

Amd don't get upset at a dealer for charging a little more. If they were that greedy, they would go out of business. Plenty of people are obviously happy to pay a bit more in exchange for a little more convenient, security, service and so forth.

I certainly am. I never used to be, when I had less money and was more price conscious. Bit these days I'll happily pay 10% or so more to avoid the hassle of trawling ads and visiting random people at their houses to search for a car.

Maybe those moaning about dealer prices are simply not in the dealers target market, which is the slightly more affluent car buyer who doesn't have time or energy to spare to muck around doing it the hard way.

[Camfab]

$43,500 seems like a great deal on a perfect ACR. Then again excellent shape is one persons opinion. Canada is a long way from home and likely harnessed with some border/emission hassles. Take a trip out there, it would make for a fun adventure. I went all over the country searching for my car, that was half the fun. Certainly someone spending close to 50K on a toy shouldn't be worried about spending a few grand here and there on travel.

I agree with f80m3driver, on target!

[damstr]

For what its worth I bought my red 97 GTS with 19k miles for $41k end of last year from Viper Exchange. That was a little above what I was seeing red 97's going for BUT I had the following going for me that I felt made the asking price worth it.

Single owner with ALL paper work and warranty work done to the car
Gen IV wheels
B&M Short shifter
TNT Catback exhaust

Those are all things that I wanted to do myself so saving me the time of already have them installed on the car was a huge plus.

[Mbccenter]

I have sold Viper in down and up markets. There are potential buyers in all that never buy because they are to worried about paying to much. They just end up missing out on good cars and usually end up with a problem one if they get one at all. Salvage from a reputable person is a good way to pay under market and have the same enjoyment. I have done many and most online advice on them is crap. Just sold a perfect 13k mile 02 GTS and they saved 10k under current market. Never even placed a add for the car. Good ones go fast.

[parabs]

Is the market for Gen 2 GTS's all crazy, or are most sellers dreaming?

I cannot find 1 Gen 2 GTS with stripes that's not salvaged or wrecked nationwide, unless its 10k-20k over book.

That said, all of these overprice cars are sitting, and not selling. A few years ago I owned a couple. Bought AND sold for reasonable prices.

Now its just crap, or decent cars for 50-60k.

What happened?

You are talking about a low production car that is 14-20 years old. If you want a specific model or colour you're going to have to get comfortable paying whatever it costs. Buying Viper used isn't about book values, it is about watching the market and purchasing when you feel comfortable...and then enjoying that purchase!

[2000acr]

Just to clarify guys- I am not confused on what the market has been. I have owned 2 Vipers, and a dozen Z06's. I have just seen a lot of '97 solid red with 30 to 50k miles type cars' for 50k$' plus ttl that just sit, and sit, and sit.

The only somewhat unique part of right now is that there are a lot of sellers that think there is some chance of that happening.

All of the reasonable condition cars for 30 to 40k sell fast. Its more of a timing issue.

The market is what buyers actually pay for cars.

[harley56]

Just to clarify guys- I am not confused on what the market has been. I have owned 2 Vipers, and a dozen Z06's. I have just seen a lot of '97 solid red with 30 to 50k miles type cars' for 50k$' plus ttl that just sit, and sit, and sit.

The only somewhat unique part of right now is that there are a lot of sellers that think there is some chance of that happening.

All of the reasonable condition cars for 30 to 40k sell fast. Its more of a timing issue.

The market is what buyers actually pay for cars.

You are right about many at high prices. $50K + isn't going to happen on those. I think some look at what others are asking and then ask similar price. i'm sure you've seen this one, to me this is still high, but probably market correct if it checks out. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...19115940&Log=0