Anybody tried the 370 mm rotor upgrade?

[Stubbygda]

Will need some new front rotors soon on my ta 2.0 and was wondering if anybody has tried the racing brake 370 mm rotor upgrade kit. I am particularly interested in track performance since that is 80% of the time i put on my car. Since i have a ta i am already using the d1001 pads but wondered if additional size of rotor increased braking. Any effect on anti-lock? What pads did ya use?

[One Viper Bite]

Are you currently using your TA brakes to their full potential? I wouldn't upgrade brakes in any form unless you feel like your skill has exceeded their thermal limit. Do you experience fade and decreased brake performance often and early on?

[Stubbygda]

I since i mostly track i threshold brake and trail brake a lot. Ta 2 brakes have performed great never fade but i use carbotech xp20/xp10 pads and srf fluid and am diligent about flushes and bleeds. Anyway its just the bigger rotors are about same replacement cost as brembos so trying to see if it a useful option. Anytime i can get better heat dissipation and potentially shorter stop times for same money it worth checking out. Have you use the 370 rotors?

[XSnake]

Try PFC pads.

[Stubbygda]

what pfc compound r u using in frt and rear. pfc doesnt even list dodge application on their web site. i have used 01 on my 2000 ACR years ago. how is wear? im using up a xp20 after about 10 20-30 min sessions ( a typical 2 day event) at VIR.

[XSnake]

The 01s were the factory equipped pads on the X's in the fronts. I believe the 97s are the rear. You can call Tom Francis and get them from him.

[Stubbygda]

Thanks.

[Dr.Ron]

Will need some new front rotors soon on my ta 2.0 and was wondering if anybody has tried the racing brake 370 mm rotor upgrade kit. I am particularly interested in track performance since that is 80% of the time i put on my car. Since i have a ta i am already using the d1001 pads but wondered if additional size of rotor increased braking. Any effect on anti-lock? What pads did ya use?

What pads did you end up going with? How were they?
Did you have a problem driving on the street with the track pads after a track day (pad material causing any vibrations,etc)?

Ron

[Stubbygda]

What pads did you end up going with? How were they?
Did you have a problem driving on the street with the track pads after a track day (pad material causing any vibrations,etc)?

Ron

Carbotech xp24 frt xp10 rear. I was using xp20 frt xp10 rear and would use up a set of front pads every event, rears last forever. So wear was my biggest issue the xp24 wear much better than xp20. I do run them on street but i spend most of my time on track. The biggest problem with the street use is that it wears off the nice transfer layer from the pad to rotor and u have to reestablish it next event. They squeek a little but nothing unbearable and ya have be careful if u dont have them up to temp as stopping distance is longer.

[Dr.Ron]

Thats what i did, xp24/10's, but on the ride home i was getting a loud groan and some vibration..

[Racingbrake]

Will need some new front rotors soon on my ta 2.0 and was wondering if anybody has tried the racing brake 370 mm rotor upgrade kit. I am particularly interested in track performance since that is 80% of the time i put on my car. Since i have a ta i am already using the d1001 pads but wondered if additional size of rotor increased braking. Any effect on anti-lock? What pads did ya use?

Racingbrake's 370x34mm rotor kit is being updated here:
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...l=1#post248282

Although it has not been installed on Viper yet as this kit was created exclusively by RB, while same discs were installed in hundreds of CTS-V and Camaro ZL1 track cars as an upgrade from stock 1pc rotors.

[Racingbrake]

If you are looking to maximize your G3/4/5 track potential, consider installing a "reduced" bias rear caliper kit like this kit specifically designed/built for Momentary Racing for a more "Balanced" brake set up.

Rear improved balanced kit:

http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Rear-A...dge-p/2546.htm

Discussion:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...l=1#post247493

System analysis and fundamental solution is what we offer, usually it works more effectively in the long run than just a component upgrade for short term change.

RacingBrake is proud to be a sponsor of Momentary Racing and can provide such an improvement for Viper to compete with other vehicles which seemed to have more choices than Viper.

[ViperGeorge]

If you are looking to maximize your G3/4/5 track potential, consider installing a "reduced" bias rear caliper kit like this kit specifically designed/built for Momentary Racing for a more "Balanced" brake set up.

Rear improved balanced kit:

http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Rear-A...dge-p/2546.htm

Discussion:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...l=1#post247493

System analysis and fundamental solution is what we offer, usually it works more effectively in the long run than just a component upgrade for short term change.

RacingBrake is proud to be a sponsor of Momentary Racing and can provide such an improvement for Viper to compete with other vehicles which seemed to have more choices than Viper.

Does your reduced bias rear calipers effect: 1) ABS operation, 2) the rear end wiggle that G5s experience under heavy braking, 3) stopping distances, 4) selection of the right friction pad? (ie. if we are using a particular pad combination will that need to change? In my case I use Raybestos ST45s in front and ST43s in rear. ST43s are slightly less aggressive than the 45s.)

[Racingbrake]

With stock set up Momentary Racing reported that the rear ABS always kicks in first (instead of front), and now you witnessed this rear end wigging shall further confirm the rear has too much bias which can impair the the brake potential because the front should "work" more than the rear but is hampered by the over-biased rear.

With this reduced rear bias in place, the rear ABS will not activate first, and since it provides a "more balanced" bias your tail wiggling will no longer be happening - The braking shall be more efficient and stable.

As to the brake pad compound, I would not suggest any change/adjustment to brake pad "aggressiveness" until you feel the need. Because this bias reduction (what's reduced in the rear is being shift to the front) is a fundamental change/solution to correct the OE set up deficiency, and the effect/result is not comparable to the bake pad compound change.

[MomentaryRacing]

Indeed. We have gone back and forth with various pads, downforce settings, suspension settings, and there just doesn't seem to be a way to generate as much "braking" traction compared to cornering grip - very unusual situation on a race car. When we reverse engineered ABS activation threshold, and created a math channel to trace it in our data, guess what we saw - rear ABS coming on in nearly every corner! This is on dry track, with race tires producing enough traction to get within a few tenths of class lap records - yet rear brakes keep trying to lock up, and force ABS to intervene.

(each red bar is rear ABS system coming on)

ABS.jpg

[ZeeViper]

could this not be done by adding a proportioning valve and a couple fittings for like 100$? or just change the front pad bite to rear pad bite ratio??

[MomentaryRacing]

You can get closer to a reasonable ratio with mixing pad compounds (although that is not likely to get it to the optimal range - believe me, we did the calculations) , however, on these cars, there are not that many compounds that can take brake temperatures these cars are capable of generating, so choices are limited.
Putting in line restrictors on the car where ABS system is also in control of F/R pressure ratio is an adventure in itself. We were advised by several engineers to not do that, although I do not recall exact reasoning. If someone wants to try though, would love to hear about the results even with the baseline bias fixed, it would still be nice to have driver-adjustible bias.

[ZeeViper]

ok, just curious.

two additional questions:

1. How did the engineers not notice this? i noticed within the first couple hundred miles, i think maybe the rears weren't "wore in" maybe? but i remember someone on the highway braked quickly so i covered the brake a bit too hard given the sensitivity of the pedals and got this yaw feeling that the back end wanted to come around. really unsettling to say the least. i attributed it to a crown in the pavement or something weird. now it doesn't seem to be uncommon at all to have a lively rear end haha.

2. Is the kit as sensitive to pad choice, or is it much less sensitive because the braking force overall has been reduced by the piston size??

Thanks

[Racingbrake]

It's sure to have been noticed based on the improved new ACR-E set up:

Front 6 piston: 55 CM^2 (60%)
Rear 4 piston: 36.4 CM^2 (40%)

This rear bias correction shall not make any change to how you would normally select a brake pad. It only makes the overall system more "balanced"

This solution is to reduce the rear piston area to achieve a better F/R ratio by shifting more bias to the front while the overall system brake force exerted remains unchanged (100%), unlike the proportional value which only cuts down the pressure to the rear.

[J TNT]

Great info , thanks for sharing !!!

[Racingbrake]

No problem, knowledge is for us to share.

Here is a table of bias analysis presented in the balance kit thread which can help you better understand the F/R ratio on original OE calipers vs. corrected w/RB caliper in the rear.




Total area is now 90.3 vs. Original 105.5 CM^2
Ratio becomes 61/39% vs. OE's 52/48%

In comparison ACR-E 6/4 piston set up:
Total: 91.4 CM^2
Ratio: 60/40%

So after replacing the rear caliper w/RB's (same rear as we used for Porsche CCM brake kit), your set up will be almost identical to ACR-E both in piston size (area) and ratio, and the effectiveness can be witnessed by any ACR-E owner that has experienced both set up.

[Racingbrake]

Received PM from members to confirm the 370mm BBk fitment under OE 4 piston calipers - Yes the kit will fit but it requires to widen the caliper clearance for 34mm rotor which is being illustrated below.
-------------------------------------------
Installation note for 370mm rotor kit:

Modification required for installing the BBK:

OE caliper width between pad sliding plates is measured as 35mm (for OE rotor thickness of 32mm)

Attachment 19968

Pad sliding plates must be widened by 2mm (1mm ea top and bottom) up to 37mm+ width in order to fit thicker (34mm) rotor with a proper clearance.
This modification can be easily done by using a Dremel or hand file.

Attachment 19969

After modified the gap between two metal plates s/b be 37mm or more - Just about flush with the caliper body (2 narrow ridges)

Attachment 19970

We can also confirm the kit will fit under 18" Sidewinder II wheels with proper clearance.

[Heysie]

Installed the 370 mm rotors from RB today.

Took the pad sliding plates out of the caliper, using a TX27 tore bit, and a grinder to make them smaller.
Installed everything back and there's enough clearance with 18" OZ and 3 piece BBS rims.

[Racingbrake]

Thank you for the feedback and sharing the fitment info.

[Racingbrake]

Installed the 370 mm rotors from RB today.

Took the pad sliding plates out of the caliper, using a TX27 tore bit, and a grinder to make them smaller.
Installed everything back and there's enough clearance with 18" OZ and 3 piece BBS rims.

Any driving impression to share?

This set up is especially favorable for those who prefer to stay with 18" wheels and track a lot (save tire replacement cost). You can substantially increase the thermal capacity w/o having to invest on some aftermarket BBK. The disc is the same as Cadillac CTS-V Gen 2 & Camaro ZL1 stock with wider annulus that allows you to use D1001 - The taller pads (D1001) for extra thermal capacity so you can run your brake cooler, session after session.

Caliper space out spacers are included in the kit for an easy installation. This front OE caliper BBK is proudly presented by RacingBrake, and your complete satisfaction both on street and track performance improvement is back with a money back guarantee. It's the best value brake kit ever offered for Viper's G3/4/5.

Front rotor kit: http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...e-V-p/2504.htm

Other options.

Rear balanced kit: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Rear-A...dge-p/2546.htm

This front BBK + rear RB balance kit (RB recommendation for tracking combo- fits 18' Wheels): http://www.racingbrake.com/ProductDe...ode=DOD-IRP-03

Front 6 pot big rotor kit and rear rotor kit (Fits 19"): http://www.racingbrake.com/Dodge-Vip...dod-irp-02.htm

Check out our complete brake replacement / upgrade offer for your Viper here:
http://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7324.htm