Stock/Arrow/Torrie

[outnumbered]

Curiosity was killing me, so I took the car to JTSVP so Tony could work with Torrie on creating a new tune. We ran all three tunes in 80+degree weather. I'm happy.image.jpg

[DZnutz]

This is on a completely stock car? kinda hard to believe that the Torrie tune net 52 rwhp and 43 rwtq

[outnumbered]

Sorry not stock. The car has a full exhaust

[dewilmoth]

Sorry not stock. The car has a full exhaust

Still impressive. I assume the dyno curve for arrow was with the aftermarket exhaust as well? Nice gains from the arrow.

[7TH_SIGN]

What was the a/f? Did the car have the exhaust on with the Arrow PCM? Great numbers on the Torrie tune!

Also was this remote dyno tuning? So you only gained 20whp and 9wtq over stock with the Arrow PCM??? Something doesn't add up.

[Steve M]

Nice gains for sure...there would probably be much less of a difference in cooler weather, but that graph right there shows you just how much power the stock and Arrow PCMs pull when the temps start climbing.

[outnumbered]

What was the a/f? Did the car have the exhaust on with the Arrow PCM? Great numbers on the Torrie tune!

Also was this remote dyno tuning? So you only gained 20whp and 9wtq over stock with the Arrow PCM??? Something doesn't add up.

I don't have that printed, but I believe it was a pretty flat 12.x.

And yes, the full exhaust was on for all runs. We ran the Arrow tune first, then stock, then tuned for the final.

I did however lose my decel pop

[7TH_SIGN]

I don't have that printed, but I believe it was a pretty flat 12.x.

And yes, the full exhaust was on for all runs. We ran the Arrow tune first, then stock, then tuned for the final.

I did however lose my decel pop

You can get the decal exhaust note back but damn the power you picked up with Torrie is very nice!

[Steve M]

What was the a/f? Did the car have the exhaust on with the Arrow PCM? Great numbers on the Torrie tune!

Also was this remote dyno tuning? So you only gained 20whp and 9wtq over stock with the Arrow PCM??? Something doesn't add up.

You are missing the affect of the ambient temps on the stock and Arrow numbers...both the stock and Arrow PCMs pull a fair amount of timing and add fuel with ambient temps that high. You can keep it from doing that with HPTuners.

[outnumbered]

What was the a/f? Did the car have the exhaust on with the Arrow PCM? Great numbers on the Torrie tune!

Also was this remote dyno tuning? So you only gained 20whp and 9wtq over stock with the Arrow PCM??? Something doesn't add up.

Yes remote tuning. Torrie basically took over the computer. You could sit there and watch him making the changes on the screen.

[outnumbered]

You can get the decal exhaust note back but damn the power you picked up with Torrie is very nice!

I was quite pleased. The car definitely feels stronger.

[zzmike]

This is awesome data, and may help a number of owners, myself included, in choosing the direction to go with their cars.

Thank you for sharing this!

[Murpowa]

Impressive numbers

[Strykerviper2014]

I was quite pleased. The car definitely feels stronger.

Torrie is tuning my car Wednesday , doing the same thing , I live in Canada , thanks for the feed back

[outnumbered]

Torrie is tuning my car Wednesday , doing the same thing , I live in Canada , thanks for the feed back

Best of luck!

[Dave1968]

Yah I agree, and we still haven't answered why. Its fairly common knowledge we are due a 30 whp gain and much more than 9 wtq with the ARROW PCM. So what is happening, and is it affecting the accuracy of the stats for the Torrie tune. I would want this little mystery solved first before I made my decision.

[7TH_SIGN]

^
Yeah it just seems like we are missing variables affecting the results of each tune. Others have logged 30whp/wtq gains with the Arrow.

[outnumbered]

The Arrow tune actually had the longest cool down period, and was tested with the lowest outside temp.

[Steve M]

Yah I agree, and we still haven't answered why. Its fairly common knowledge we are due a 30 whp gain and much more than 9 wtq with the ARROW PCM. So what is happening, and is it affecting the accuracy of the stats for the Torrie tune. I would want this little mystery solved first before I made my decision.

I already answered why...the stock tune and Arrow PCM both pull timing when ambient temps get that high, and it's not an insignificant amount.

The Arrow tune has to be safe for everyone, including cars that are running balls to the wall on the track for 30+ minute sessions. Because of that, the Arrow tune has to be more conservative...with HPTuners, you can tune it for the conditions your car will see. The tune I run on the street isn't the same tune I'd be running on a road course, and I can change that with a few mouse clicks and about 60 seconds to upload the new file to the PCM. HPTuners is nothing more than another tool in the toolbox to make your car faster...if you know what you are doing, you can make really impressive gains. If you don't, it's just like any other tool - you can cause more harm than good. Torrie clearly knows what he's doing.

[donk_316]

Yeah no thanks. A remote tune for your car on a dyno? Let's hope nothing melts down on the hwy or driving around town.

Arrow tune is built by Arrow. For the Arrow engine. In all scenarios

So if you go across country do you have to fine tune based off altitude, weather conditions and engine load?

[Steve M]

Yeah no thanks. A remote tune for your car on a dyno? Let's hope nothing melts down on the hwy or driving around town.

Arrow tune is built by Arrow. For the Arrow engine. In all scenarios

So if you go across country do you have to fine tune based off altitude, weather conditions and engine load?

No...the mass air flow and manifold air pressure sensors would compensate. A well done HPT tune will be every bit as robust as the Arrow tune.

These cars are actually very simple to tune for the basic bolt-ons...the MAF tables take care of the WOT fueling, and you need to dial in some additional spark in a few areas and get rid of some of the nannies (like cat-overtemp protection). That's really about it as far as power production is concerned.

[donk_316]

Thanks Steve for the explanation. I just would feel better once I see some miles on this sort of thing before passing judgement.

The dyno graph as posted is suspect. Such a small gain from the Arrow which has been proven over and over to give much more than this. Then a massive jump for the remote tune? Just looks screwed to me.

I'll wait for more real world testing, I appreciate the OP doing this though.

[Steve M]

Thanks Steve for the explanation. I just would feel better once I see some miles on this sort of thing before passing judgement.

The dyno graph as posted is suspect. Such a small gain from the Arrow which has been proven over and over to give much more than this. Then a massive jump for the remote tune? Just looks screwed to me.

I'll wait for more real world testing, I appreciate the OP doing this though.

This isn't the first time I've seen something just like it:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...ht=arrow+gains

[outnumbered]

Yeah no thanks. A remote tune for your car on a dyno? Let's hope nothing melts down on the hwy or driving around town.

Arrow tune is built by Arrow. For the Arrow engine. In all scenarios

So if you go across country do you have to fine tune based off altitude, weather conditions and engine load?

A remote tune is no different than if he is sitting there at the dyno. The tuner see's everything that the car is doing. This is not a "canned" tune. I guess the only omission is the sound.

Pdv25 had the same setup--I believe he made 607 with his orange TA, and he had many (according to all his videos) high speed passes with no issues. My car will more than likely not be pushed that hard.

[outnumbered]

I can see certain situations where I would still run the Arrow tune. I'm glad I have both.