Viper ACR 2016 appreciation?

[WillyPrep]

I bought mine because its badass but whats everyone thoughts on appreciation? I agree with a lot of A's points

[Darius]

Mine has gone up 50k but I'm willing to sell it for 165k. It's a bargain.

[WillyPrep]

Mine has gone up 50k but I'm willing to sell it for 165k. It's a bargain.

at this point I'll pay that, sick of waiting for mime

[zee]

I really can't stand the way this dude talks in his videos. Very obnoxious but yes, he did bring up some good points. I think the TA 1.0 and the ACR will be the vipers to have in terms of collector level (and of course if there's a special edition built in 2017).

[Jabba954]

I can't watch this guy and his videos. He makes me want to punch him in the face and pitch his keys into the ocean.

ACR Appreciate? Not for a while. But it'll hold its value relatively well, even with track use. Especially if the V10 N/A Viper is truly dead next year.

[dewilmoth]

I'm obviously biased, but I think the ACR contains all of the makings of a future classic. Big N/A motor, 6 speed, no compromise performance, unique looks, and low build numbers. I don't think it will appreciate any time soon, but I do think eventually it will be considered very special. I also think it is an absolute steal for what you get, and the company it's compared against.

[Policy Limits]

My GTS actually has a real radio and a full carpet. So 1/4 mill & it's yours. Haha

[ViperSmith]

Not for awhile, sadly.

And lol @ "investing in cars"

[ACRucrazy]

Ugh..

[ViperDC]

Has any Viper appreciated? Enough said

[Terminator02]

The iconic gen 2 BW go in the 30s-40s with desirable year, cam, color combo etc. they are no investment. The very limited edition 99-02 ACR typically demand a 5k premium over the GTS. They are no investment. The very limited race GTS-R do command a high price. I suppose that's an investment but prices have been stagnant so that's even debatable. Now with this "1 of 1" while awesome, does make production numbers way less novel. The ACR is breaking track records but the original gen 1 and 2 blew away the comp when they debuted and people liked the viper more years ago. So honestly I don't see these being some investment at all. I have and love my gen 5 but the days of crazy car investments are likely gone. Now we just have outlier examples such as the ford GT.

[XSTAR]

What's the count on how many ACR's have been made...anyone have a rough idea?

[ViperJon]

They don't appreciate, some just depreciate slower than others.

[Bill Pemberton]

Viper DC

98 GTSR -- Appreciated for well over a decade, some drop now , but knowledgeable folks ( Russo and Steele for example ) expect them to rocket back up in years.
2010 ACR Convertible done for Woodhouse -- try and find a low mileage one that the owner does not want 125-140K . We sold them all at MSRP and I have been unable to buy a single one back for that. Considered by many at Dodge the rarest Viper ever built and they are not going down in price.
1997 Blue/White Convertible -- try and find a pristine one and you will pay over original MSRP
1992 Original , low mileage cars are now starting to approach and in some cases go over their original price.

I would say there are some Vipers that have done exactly that , and it is not uncommon to hear from very knowledgeable , long term collectors that primo examples of 96 GTS and some other models will likely reach over 100K in the next ten years, so there are logical cases that the Snake will make some dramatic gains, but as is normal with the automotive arena , long term is the key.

Superbirds did not go ballistic immediately and neither did a Hemi Cuda, but with only around 600 Gen IV ACRs made Worldwide, and less than half of that done with the Aerodynamic package, common sense says these cars will be rare and valuable just by their tiny numbers alone. The current ACR is such an anomaly , with even some commentators wondering how a street legal race car could be built in this day an age , why is this such a stretch for some to think a two year model that will show limited numbers will not command foolish figures in the next 10-20 years? Ironically with the TA 1.0 and TA 2.0 , somewhat taking a backseat to the ACR , there will be small numbers of these competent machines , so it would not be a surprise to see them propel upward. Lastly, with the advent of the phenomenally successful one of one program there are going to be some extreme , in your face , Vipers that will stun many , and when the line shuts down, where else are you going to find some of these wicked creations.

Whether one is a fan of the Viper or not, automotive history has shown one factor to be predominant in increasing value of various makes , and that is build numbers. To take a 25 year history of a car and have only around 32,000 examples ever built ( we know plenty were raced or wrecked or sold overseas ) , supply will dictate the value in years to come. I think about the one Viper Violet Convertible we had built with the Aerodynamic kit, and how folks called me over and over looking for that rare machine. That was years back, but it is the only car ever done in a very limited, late intro, color ( that became quite popular once folks actually saw one ) , so in years to come if one wants that machine, makes little sense it will become cheaper. Same scenario with the special cars being done now ----- glad I got a Gen V, and I honestly believe it will be a solid investment over the long term ( same way as I view my stocks ).

Thanks for listening

[SharpMan]

Dear god he's inarticulate.

Will the ACR appreciate? Doubtful. Might be desirable and depreciate less than other cars and still be worth something in 20 years as an anachronistic experience.

[ViperDC]

Viper DC

98 GTSR -- Appreciated for well over a decade, some drop now , but knowledgeable folks ( Russo and Steele for example ) expect them to rocket back up in years.
2010 ACR Convertible done for Woodhouse -- try and find a low mileage one that the owner does not want 125-140K . We sold them all at MSRP and I have been unable to buy a single one back for that. Considered by many at Dodge the rarest Viper ever built and they are not going down in price.
1997 Blue/White Convertible -- try and find a pristine one and you will pay over original MSRP
1992 Original , low mileage cars are now starting to approach and in some cases go over their original price.

Point taken, but basically it has to be a ridiculously limited model to even moderately appreciate. Also the original '92s MSRP in today's money is $90k+ so if you bought one for an investment you lost your ass when you consider that + storage fees + insurance + maintenance etc

Vipers don't have the mass appeal of a Hemi Cuda, it is what it is. These aren't investments in my opinion. I think the Gen V ACR will hold its value fairly well but you'd have to be high to buy one as some sort of investment.

That said, last raw, true manual badass record-setting car will help it hold it's value much better than most sports/super cars

[mikesax]

Who really cares?! I "appreciate" it every mile of every day it's driven!! FUN FACTOR negates ALL!! My Vipers are "appreciated" DAILY like no other car I've ever owned!!

[Bill Pemberton]

Ok, so you think a Hemi Cuda had the appeal it has now in the 1980s , 10 years after it was built? The numbers were extremely limited with the Hemi, just like Viper examples I listed above. Us old farts in our 60s and 70s remember when we bought cars like that for nothing compared to today, and if you think the super rare examples of a Viper won't have crazy appeal 30-40 years in the future ( which is what happened to Hemis ) , then we just beg to differ. I prefer to listen to folks at Dodge, owners of Russo and Steele, Barrett Jackson, and more -- who are friends from some of the charitable machines we did through them. You emphatically stated NO Viper ever appreciated, so I just listed some examples that had or currently were just to show I felt your comment was too broad. But life would be boring if we all agreed, and my point was only to illustrate that to say no Vipers ever appreciated was not completely correct.

Not going to change your opinion , but always amazes me why some Viper owners are the first to devalue our cars. When more and more calls are coming in from folks wanting to complete their collection of Vipers , and many getting super difficult to find, logic just tells me supply and demand is going to rule the roost even more after production stops in 2017. But , heck, I have had 8 of these beasts over the years, I admit to being a Viperholic , and completely wacko about the machine, but they seem to have all the makings with the advent of the current Hybrid Generation of being a machine that will never see the light of day in just a few short years. Truly the second coming of a Muscle Car Era ( much longer than the first ) is ending , and that was part of the formula that caused those cars of old to be so valuable now. I am just a student of history believing it is ready to repeat. Heck we just took in an early 93 ( rare antenna model) and 10 years ago no one cared. Surprisingly I have made calls to folks just looking for an early model to finish out their stable. With a Ford GT with a V6, Porsche 911s going away from naturally aspirated engines, the Viper disappearing, to me none of us has to be clairvoyant to see the heavy winds of change.

[Junkie]

Honestly, I'm not holding my breath on any of the modern Vipers appreciated in the time that I will be owning the car. I don't buy the car and plan on having it for 50 years. People are trying to claim its going to appreciate like the Ford GT because its Americas last real hard core super car. Would that be great? F yes, is that realistic, no.

[Bruce]

I really can't stand the way this dude talks in his videos. Very obnoxious but yes, he did bring up some good points. I think the TA 1.0 and the ACR will be the vipers to have in terms of collector level (and of course if there's a special edition built in 2017).

Zee, does that mean I should keep my TA 1.0???

[Coloviper]

Bill is right on for the older ones. The newer ones, it will remain to be determined but a lot of serious collectors are eyeing the more race versions of the GEN V now. That does not mean they are jumping on them now but they are eyeing them up. You have to remember that in the coming years, a true track car will be non-existent from the manufacturers. Gov Bills that have passed and waiting their period to take effect are already counting down the clock. 2020 will be here before you know it. The witch gets in and 2020 will be here before you know it and so much worse than we all thought. Mr. T gets in and there is hope for real world reasonability to this whole EPA mess. So many factors have to play in to make something collectible but it starts with demand over supply. Since GEN V supply is still building, prices will not be going anywhere on those models but down for a while. However the cars that Bill P is mentioning are already built and spoken for. They are already appreciating from the bottom of where they were just a few years ago. Good signs even if small. One day, we will say, "dammit" and slap our leg on some of these because in the heart, we knew better than our non-actions today.

Many on here don't hold on to cars for that long so doesn't matter to them. Others who are cheap SOBs like myself, will play the cards with the right cars we can afford to pick up. Would love to pick up a low VIN 92' to enjoy but no extra funds. While not the most performance of any of them (probably the least performance Viper in history) it is the one and only car out of the 25 year run with such an elite, such an athlete and celebrity based original buyers base of the small run, where people were paying ridiculous over sticker to get; it will do "extremely" well as it has all of the makings and backing in past media, in auto history, in owners, celebrities, truly hand build, recognized by everyone, etc., etc., etc. It is the only one, everyone will want one in the museum for those with big collections who want that sort of thing.

However, overall the one thing I feel is different this go around from the 60s muscle collector car market or the big collections the past few years which is a factor is people and even the mini-collectors like myself, we work hard and we want to enjoy and drive our cars. This sitting in a museum stuff for the majority, I believe is going to go away in the future, other than what I stated above. These mega collections like the Pratt, the Milner, the whatever, they are being dismantled and many today and I believe tomorrow just want to have a couple of daily cars and have only a couple unique and fun very special cars in a mini-driven collection because anymore and it is too hard to maintain and if you don't enjoy them driving, what is the point for most.

I was up to 5 at one time in the past and then sold a few to keep the ultra-rare 1 of 1 stuff, other than the 96' RT/10 which is much more production numbered car than a 1 off car but I wanted a car I could drive and not have a headache or a single worry if it even got a scratch. I take good care of it but don't tip toe around it. A car I could take to the track and beat on, which I would like to do (respectfully) but have not really done that much to date at the track.

The age old argument of if you took your money and put it away in this fund or that and invested it is so irrelevant anyway. NOTHING in life is guaranteed. You can lose it in the market as easy as someone stealing your collector car out of the garage. Life costs money to live, the same as anything else, throwing insurance, gas, this and that in an equation is also I think just wrong. In the end, if these cars are trading at their original MSRPs that is an amazing first step. Hey if I bought a new car and enjoyed it for 30 years to then sell it for exactly what I bought it for, regardless of what maintenance, tires, etc. I ould do that all day long everytime.

[Policy Limits]

Finger on the trigger on an 03 gated Murcielago. Only 6k miles, rare transmission and PPI came back clean. Car is a buck and a half and if it follows what the Diablo and Countach models before it have done in their respective markets, I think 1/2 mill potential in 10-20 years is there. Another big consideration is costs like people have stated with respect to insurance and maintenance. How about taxes? In my state it's 7% from jump street in sales tax and then you pay a quarterly excise tax on ownership on anything less than 10 years old. So it's another plus for the 03 car I'm currently considering. Either way, I'll keep my gen V. It's not an ACR-E but still rare just because it's a viper. And if owning the last naturally aspirated V10 with manual transmission ever made doesn't command a premium in 15 years, which I doubt, at least it will still be available to drive, own and enjoy. Cars are generally depreciating assets and no one has a crystal ball. A good friend sold his Scuderia a few years ago for a lousy buck and a quarter and now that values are nearly 300% higher there's gotta be seller's remorse. If it goes up its just a plus. But otherwise guessing max out 401 (k) and then grab annuities and diversify portfolio, real estate purchases are probably safer as investments. Besides clothing and furniture, cars are probably the only tangible asset that have gone down in value with time. There are exceptions, but that's all they are

[swexlin]

Finger on the trigger on an 03 gated Murcielago. Only 6k miles, rare transmission and PPI came back clean. Car is a buck and a half and if it follows what the Diablo and Countach models before it have done in their respective markets, I think 1/2 mill potential in 10-20 years is there. Another big consideration is costs like people have stated with respect to insurance and maintenance. How about taxes? In my state it's 7% from jump street in sales tax and then you pay a quarterly excise tax on ownership on anything less than 10 years old. So it's another plus for the 03 car I'm currently considering. Either way, I'll keep my gen V. It's not an ACR-E but still rare just because it's a viper. And if owning the last naturally aspirated V10 with manual transmission ever made doesn't command a premium in 15 years, which I doubt, at least it will still be available to drive, own and enjoy. Cars are generally depreciating assets and no one has a crystal ball. A good friend sold his Scuderia a few years ago for a lousy buck and a quarter and now that values are nearly 300% higher there's gotta be seller's remorse. If it goes up its just a plus. But otherwise guessing max out 401 (k) and then grab annuities and diversify portfolio, real estate purchases are probably safer as investments. Besides clothing and furniture, cars are probably the only tangible asset that have gone down in value with time. There are exceptions, but that's all they are

Excellent post, agree with you here. Good luck on the Murci!

[ViperDC]

Finger on the trigger on an 03 gated Murcielago. Only 6k miles, rare transmission and PPI came back clean. Car is a buck and a half and if it follows what the Diablo and Countach models before it have done in their respective markets, I think 1/2 mill potential in 10-20 years is there. Another big consideration is costs like people have stated with respect to insurance and maintenance. How about taxes? In my state it's 7% from jump street in sales tax and then you pay a quarterly excise tax on ownership on anything less than 10 years old. So it's another plus for the 03 car I'm currently considering. Either way, I'll keep my gen V. It's not an ACR-E but still rare just because it's a viper. And if owning the last naturally aspirated V10 with manual transmission ever made doesn't command a premium in 15 years, which I doubt, at least it will still be available to drive, own and enjoy. Cars are generally depreciating assets and no one has a crystal ball. A good friend sold his Scuderia a few years ago for a lousy buck and a quarter and now that values are nearly 300% higher there's gotta be seller's remorse. If it goes up its just a plus. But otherwise guessing max out 401 (k) and then grab annuities and diversify portfolio, real estate purchases are probably safer as investments. Besides clothing and furniture, cars are probably the only tangible asset that have gone down in value with time. There are exceptions, but that's all they are

Agree on the Murci. An early Diablo would be a wise investment as well. That said, Scuds have never been 125, nor have they gone up 300 %

To the rest, my point is go out and enjoy your car because you are not going to make money on it.

[Whitemamba]

Viper DC

98 GTSR -- Appreciated for well over a decade, some drop now , but knowledgeable folks ( Russo and Steele for example ) expect them to rocket back up in years.
2010 ACR Convertible done for Woodhouse -- try and find a low mileage one that the owner does not want 125-140K . We sold them all at MSRP and I have been unable to buy a single one back for that. Considered by many at Dodge the rarest Viper ever built and they are not going down in price.
1997 Blue/White Convertible -- try and find a pristine one and you will pay over original MSRP
1992 Original , low mileage cars are now starting to approach and in some cases go over their original price.

I would say there are some Vipers that have done exactly that , and it is not uncommon to hear from very knowledgeable , long term collectors that primo examples of 96 GTS and some other models will likely reach over 100K in the next ten years, so there are logical cases that the Snake will make some dramatic gains, but as is normal with the automotive arena , long term is the key.

Superbirds did not go ballistic immediately and neither did a Hemi Cuda, but with only around 600 Gen IV ACRs made Worldwide, and less than half of that done with the Aerodynamic package, common sense says these cars will be rare and valuable just by their tiny numbers alone. The current ACR is such an anomaly , with even some commentators wondering how a street legal race car could be built in this day an age , why is this such a stretch for some to think a two year model that will show limited numbers will not command foolish figures in the next 10-20 years? Ironically with the TA 1.0 and TA 2.0 , somewhat taking a backseat to the ACR , there will be small numbers of these competent machines , so it would not be a surprise to see them propel upward. Lastly, with the advent of the phenomenally successful one of one program there are going to be some extreme , in your face , Vipers that will stun many , and when the line shuts down, where else are you going to find some of these wicked creations.

Whether one is a fan of the Viper or not, automotive history has shown one factor to be predominant in increasing value of various makes , and that is build numbers. To take a 25 year history of a car and have only around 32,000 examples ever built ( we know plenty were raced or wrecked or sold overseas ) , supply will dictate the value in years to come. I think about the one Viper Violet Convertible we had built with the Aerodynamic kit, and how folks called me over and over looking for that rare machine. That was years back, but it is the only car ever done in a very limited, late intro, color ( that became quite popular once folks actually saw one ) , so in years to come if one wants that machine, makes little sense it will become cheaper. Same scenario with the special cars being done now ----- glad I got a Gen V, and I honestly believe it will be a solid investment over the long term ( same way as I view my stocks ).

Thanks for listening

Great post Bill.