Overheating on the track

[Arizona Vipers]

13/14 PCM is totally different than 14/15 so for sure have that taken care of...

The water pump was replaced with the thought being that the one he had was not machined just right "tolerances" were likely on the outside of the range. Installing a proven pump solved cavitation issues.

Where can I buy this "proven pump"????

[Arizona Vipers]

and finally an upgraded water pump from Arrow which I believe is what cured the problem.

\

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

[Special Ed]

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

Arrow

[Simms]

Arrow

Just curious, is it a different pump than OEM?

[kaamacat]

Although sometimes a simple thought..... are your radiator fans both working? Sometimes its the simple stuff that just goes poof.

[roadrunner]

Kaamacat poses a good question... keep in mind the fans are in a series/parallel arrangement... And there are two fuses... so you might loose one without losing the other... If both are working you should see only two speeds, both on low, both on high speed. High speed will be quite loud, and a ton of air from both shrouds.

[Special Ed]

Just curious, is it a different pump than OEM?

I believe closer tolerances

[mjorgensen]

I believe closer tolerances

Yes

[ViperGeorge]

Did your car ever shut off with the dash lights flashing? And the underdrive pulley did NOTHING? What were your ambient temps when you were hitting 240's? I pulled off at high 230's and then the car puked. Your car didn't puke at 240's?

My car did not puke or shut off. Dash light was flashing red though at 240. Here's data I posted on another thread.

Track High Plains Raceway near Byers, CO. Altitude is 5088 feet. Both test days were clear and nice with low humidity.

Baseline - Last time I was at the track
Ambient Temp 77
Stock Pulley
10-40 Mobil 1
Headers
No insulation on anything except O2 wires
Doug Shelby air box shield
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Coolant Max 243 after 15 minutes
Oil Max 263 after 15 minutes
IAT 95
Testing had to be halted due to melted wire harness

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95

Second run today
Ambient 86
Same mods as first run except
OEM PCM
Coolant Max 226 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 246 after 30 minutes
IAT 104

Third run today
Ambient 89
Same mods as first and second run except
Arrow PCM reinstalled
Coolant Max 240 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 258 after 30 minutes
IAT 105

A friend was also at the track the same day with his 2014 GTS. It is bone stock. He is a comparable driver to me at this track. He was running 238 coolant with oil around 250. Seems too hot even for a bone stock car.

[aNinjaneer]

Does it do it while driving normally, or just at the track? It's possible that the system simply wasn't bled properly. They're kind of a pain to bleed completely, and will definitely overheat if not completely purged of air. The last time we bled one, the thermostat took a while to open and allow the air bubble to leave the system. We sat with the steam port cracked open, and it was flowing steam for a good 5-10 minutes before the thermostat opened and gulped down all of the coolant in the reservoir.

[Jack B]

In general, the fans do not operate at high speed.

Although sometimes a simple thought..... are your radiator fans both working? Sometimes its the simple stuff that just goes poof.

[kverges]

Fans will not make a difference on track and in fact true race cars have no fans as they impede flow at higher speeds. I'd first suspect air in cooling system.

[Arizona Vipers]

are your radiator fans both working? .

Yeah we checked that first thing

- - - Updated - - -

I'd first suspect air in cooling system.

I bled the system there was no air

[Arizona Vipers]

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95

Wow so you think the underdrive pulley helped that much??

[ViperGeorge]

Wow so you think the underdrive pulley helped that much??

Well, I think it helped some. Insulating the cooling lines that run to oil cooler also probably helped. But when ambient rose to high 80s temps got hot again.

[XSnake]

I can't get my car even close to overheating. I don't think it went over 200* at Daytona a week ago. I'll look at my data later tonight when I post some vids.

[aNinjaneer]

I bled the system there was no air

You may have, but I'd still say there's a possibility you missed some air. Was coolant flowing constantly out of the steam port on top of the upper water neck? Even if it was done properly, I'd give it another go once the car is fully warmed up. Can't hurt, but could fix it.

[Arizona Vipers]

Ok, I took the car to lunch to see if it would overheat and it ran in the 190's.
The engine threw a code, P0174 "Fuel System 2/1 Lean" see attached picture. Could this be from running 100 octane?

vipercode.jpg

I'll be taking the car to Eddie soon to have everything double checked and will order the upper radiator hose and blueprinted water pump and maybe the underdrive pulley.

[Nemesis]

Having a lean state will also generate too much heat no? I know there are other in here who know more about this than I do..

[Stealth]

My car did not puke or shut off. Dash light was flashing red though at 240. Here's data I posted on another thread.

Track High Plains Raceway near Byers, CO. Altitude is 5088 feet. Both test days were clear and nice with low humidity.

Baseline - Last time I was at the track
Ambient Temp 77
Stock Pulley
10-40 Mobil 1
Headers
No insulation on anything except O2 wires
Doug Shelby air box shield
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Coolant Max 243 after 15 minutes
Oil Max 263 after 15 minutes
IAT 95
Testing had to be halted due to melted wire harness

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95

Second run today
Ambient 86
Same mods as first run except
OEM PCM
Coolant Max 226 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 246 after 30 minutes
IAT 104

Third run today
Ambient 89
Same mods as first and second run except
Arrow PCM reinstalled
Coolant Max 240 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 258 after 30 minutes
IAT 105

A friend was also at the track the same day with his 2014 GTS. It is bone stock. He is a comparable driver to me at this track. He was running 238 coolant with oil around 250. Seems too hot even for a bone stock car.

My 2014 GTS with TA Aero, Arrow PCM, 91 Octane and Corsa Cat-Back Exhaust has run fine on the Track (two trips so far, last one it was 85F). No dash warning lights, alarms, limp modes, audible pinging, etc. My Oil Temps were similar to yours--230-240Fs mostly -- on the 85F day. Not sure on coolant. The rpms see to have a direct effect on temps. For example, heel-and-toeing down from high speed (5th to 2nd) will move temps up a bit, but they quickly cool down in seconds once the motor rpms come down a bit and the air is hitting the car at speed.

[Arizona Vipers]

Having a lean state will also generate too much heat no? .

Yeah i would assume so. The motor would have to work harder to make the same power...

[G37Sam]

Yeah i would assume so. The motor would have to work harder to make the same power...

And in-cylinder temps would sky rocket. I'd be very careful of driving a lean running motor hard.

[FLATOUT]

The water pump from Arrow wasn't anything special, it was a known, working, and correctly functioning OEM pump. Since these cars rarely overheat on track it can be a bit tough to diagnose, so if you seemingly have an odd ball gen IV or V that consistantly sees elevated temps it's probably worth checking the pump.

[ViperGeorge]

I can't get my car even close to overheating. I don't think it went over 200* at Daytona a week ago. I'll look at my data later tonight when I post some vids.

My Gen 4 ACR never got remotely hot. It would run 200 coolant all day long on the track. Oil temps were never an issue either. The Gen 5s are different animals though. SRT says the engine is good to 255 coolant but that just seems really hot.

[aNinjaneer]

Ok, I took the car to lunch to see if it would overheat and it ran in the 190's.
The engine threw a code, P0174 "Fuel System 2/1 Lean" see attached picture. Could this be from running 100 octane?

vipercode.jpg

I'll be taking the car to Eddie soon to have everything double checked and will order the upper radiator hose and blueprinted water pump and maybe the underdrive pulley.

It could be... Is it leaded 100 octane? Could have killed one of the O2 sensors. Other than that, the 100 octane fuel shouldn't throw your trims off that much. Running lean could increase your EGTs, for sure, but your cooling system should be able to keep up with that. Get it to someone with a factory scan tool to properly diagnose it.