Overheating on the track

[Arizona Vipers]

After tracking a Gen 2 for a year with a problem that nobody could fix (described in other threads) I started tracking my '13 about 6 months ago. The car did great at the first 4 events I took it to, one at INDE in AZ, then two weekends in a row at Chuckwalla (One Nasa event and Viper Tracks, then East track here in Phoenix) The car kicked ass at all these events until the motor blew. It was replaced under warranty a few weeks ago. We did a 400 mile break in on the street. I took it to Main track (1.6 mile track) here in Phoenix last week, the car ran hot and would shut off at the end of every session right as I would pit-out. I took it to Airpark Dodge/Eddie Martin, nothing obvious was found. So drove it down to INDE (4 hour drive) yesterday for an event this weekend. Took the car out first session (62 degrees outside) and in my 3rd lap I looked down and saw coolant was 239* and left the track and car shut down in the hot pits and puked coolant everywhere. So loaded up the car, lost hotel money, track money, gas both ways and more importantly my time. So the car with the old motor ran perfect under any tack situation, with the new motor it cant do 3 laps in 62* weather. I love Viper's and own several and will always drive them on the street, but since i started hitting the track 1.5 years ago, I've done about 20 events, and only 4 I've actually been able to do. All others car has failed and nobody can fix it. Imagine going to the track 20 times and your car fails 17 of them, many are long drives far from my home. I love Viper's and cant imagine tracking another car, but everyone I know around me that also tracks cars never has these problems and always has fun at the track. I just want to have fun at the track. My buddy bought a Z06 at the same time I started tracking and we do all events together and the only problem he has ever had is a cracked rotor and he runs his car as fast as me. 17 events now I broke down while he has no issues. Viper Exchange? Woodhouse??? Anyone have any ideas on making a Gen 5 be able to run at the track and not overheat? I'll give this on more try.

[donk_316]

Not many people have reported overheating but the few that have, never seem to fix the issue.

There is a larger radiator available and now Calvo sells a really affordable upper radiator hard pipe (the stock rubber one was shown to collapse on a dyno run they posted)

Otherwise it should be a warranty issue with the new engine.

[Arizona Vipers]

Not many people have reported overheating but the few that have, never seem to fix the issue.

There is a larger radiator available and now Calvo sells a really affordable upper radiator hard pipe (the stock rubber one was shown to collapse on a dyno run they posted)

Otherwise it should be a warranty issue with the new engine.

Thanks, great info! I would do the bigger radiator for sure, but something else is fundamentally wrong. It's night and day since replacing the motor.
I'm assuming I have the same upper radiator hose from before the engine replacement, but would be open to trying that for sure.
Agreed on the warranty issue, Nemesis was out there on same track with no overheating issues.
I'd also like to say that this was the first time I have ran this configuration on this track so I wasn't pushing the car near as hard as I normally do on a tracks I'm familiar with.

[darbgnik]

No value post here, but maybe something to do with it still being a tight engine? Either that, or something off with the new tune on the new engine, as the 2016 motor is a little different????? Definitely odd and good luck!

[Vprbite]

The hard pipe radiator hose is probably a good idea cause those things cavitate bigtime. I also think something about the design of the hood seems to trap some hot air in there up near the cowling by the windshield on the Gen V.

It's weird though because scads of people track these cars and don't overheat. Maybe you are a good enough/aggressive enough driver that you are pushing the limits. Perhaps try the close out panel from DSE? I think people seem to have decent results with that. It would be really helpful to see if that hose is cavitating though. Because that will heat it up ultra fast. Are you sure the fan is working? And, lest we forget, is the water pump working for sure? Are you seeing the coolant flow? I know Eddie and he knows these cars inside and out but I'm just going through my checklist I would go over if you brought it to my house and we looked at it. Just in case you missed something.

Also, you/we are thinking about the input portion of the motor. What about the other end? Are you CERTAIN there is no problem with the exhaust? Cats can fail and not throw a CEL. They can even puke their substrate out. It's happened. Could it be clogged up such that it is burning fuel and therefor not messing pissing off the rear O2 sensors but not letting all that heat appropriately flow out? Perhaps that's why you get a couple laps before it overheats? Just a thought.

Best of Luck. Let me know if I can help.

[FLATOUT]

Carl's TA 2.0 was having similar issues and he did many of the things that were already suggested, radiator, hard pipe (I think), and finally an upgraded water pump from Arrow which I believe is what cured the problem.

And as already mentioned it's a pretty uncommon thing which made it difficult to diagnose.

[Arizona Vipers]

and finally an upgraded water pump from Arrow which I believe is what cured the problem.

\

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

[Special Ed]

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

Arrow

[cab33]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.

[Special Ed]

PM sent

[swexlin]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.

This. I would get the car back to the dealer, something wasn't done right (or a faulty part used) when the new engine went in.

[Arizona Vipers]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.

Eddie Martin is an extremely capable tech who has done a lot of these swaps.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Interesting it was after an engine swap, this could be the first real clue as to what is going on. Before the problems seemed to be with select few TA 2.0s. Maybe it is somehow an issue related to a batch of engines or human error on install.

I know Karl absolutely threw the kitchen sink at it (other than changing engines or cars) and never fixed the issue. He was also reporting some crazy IAT at WOT of 30 degrees over ambient on track (seems very high even without heat shield, he did have the airbox plug installed). He was turning some very fast lap times at COTA but maybe that had nothing to do with it given your experience.

Here is one thread where it was discussed:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...emps-revisited

Edit : saw FLATOUT says above a water pump did help.

[Special Ed]

Interesting it was after an engine swap, this could be the first real clue as to what is going on. Before the problems seemed to be with select few TA 2.0s. Maybe it is somehow an issue related to a batch of engines or human error on install.

I know Karl absolutely threw the kitchen sink at it (other than changing engines or cars) and never fixed the issue. He was also reporting some crazy IAT at WOT of 30 degrees over ambient on track (seems very high even without heat shield, he did have the airbox plug installed). He was turning some very fast lap times at COTA but maybe that had nothing to do with it given your experience.

Here is one thread where it was discussed:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...emps-revisited

Edit : saw FLATOUT says above a water pump did help.

The pump not only helped it it cured the problem.

[Pappy]

PM sent

[TrackAire]

The pump not only helped it it cured the problem.

Is there any information on this pump and what is different about it?

TIA

[rlhay2]

Are you running the standard 50/50 anti-freeze : water ratio or something more suitable for Arizona weather?

[Arizona Vipers]

I forgot to include the vehicle mods:
Arrow tune
Belanger headers/mufflers, deleted cats

Pappy mentioned in a PM that maybe the Arrow computer could be tuned for '13 and the '16 tune is different. I'm going to PM FLATOUT about that....

Thanks guys.

[Dman]

I forgot to include the vehicle mods:
Arrow tune
Belanger headers/mufflers, deleted cats

Pappy mentioned in a PM that maybe the Arrow computer could be tuned for '13 and the '16 tune is different. I'm going to PM FLATOUT about that....

Thanks guys.

They are different, I don't know if it could lead to your problem, something is definitely wrong, it doesn't sound at all like a little bug, something is outta whack, but if you have the orig Arrow from the '13 motor, then you need a swap for the '16, this came up in discussion concerning engine swaps and the latest recalls. You could swap the stock PCM back in, which I assume they would've updates with the engine swap and see if the cooling is improved.

[supersnake]

It seems like a restriction of water flow. Since you say this is a problem since engine swap. How far have you driven it non track. Does it get hot on the street? I have seen sometimes on exchange engine plastic plugs to plug oil and water lines. Might be a plug left in a part of the water flow lines maybe partly blocking flow. I have seen 2 put in the same hole and one gets removed and still leave one in there. I doubt that this is the problem as I have heard lots about Eddies work but we are only human.

[Arizona Vipers]

How far have you driven it non track. Does it get hot on the street? .

We drove it 500 break in miles on the street it never got hot.

[Redsled]

After tracking a Gen 2 for a year with a problem that nobody could fix

I've tracked my 98' GTS race car for 10+ years with the stock radiator and have never had issues. Will the car get hot at times, yes, if I keep the car near redline for extended amounts of time, but that is the exception, not the rule. The problem with the Gen 2 cars was always airflow to the radiator, not the radiator itself. Perhaps you are driving the car at redline for extended periods, which is causing the overheating?

[Arizona Vipers]

Perhaps you are driving the car at redline for extended periods, which is causing the overheating?

Yeah I drive the car hard, but no different than the way I drove it with the old motor. I ran that track a few months ago in a very similar configuration and never had any heat issues. Same with Chuckwalla, both CCW and CW.

[Pappy]

This probably won't make you feel any better, but it was posted today on another forum.

"We're packing up to leave from a Sebring track day today with 86F ambient temps. There were 4 Z06s here. Every Z06 overheated, including two novice drivers who overheated within 3 laps on their first ever track session. "

Pappy

[ViperGeorge]

Several of us have experienced high temps on track. Carl did and I have. Others too. 243+ coolant, 265+ oil. SRT says engine good to 255 coolant but that seems hot. I knew Carl tried a bunch of stuff but I hadn't heard about the water pump. I need to look into that. I've put on an underdrive pulley, water wetter, spring in upper radiator hose, insulated radiator lines and tank, nothing helped.