Gen 5 supercharger???

[TAMPA-G5]

sorry if this is a topic already talked about............ I'm new to forums lol but I'm looking for info on best choice of supercharger for my gen 5 I heard arrow was building a sledgehammer but I called viper exchange and they say they are over a year out on having it ready

[Evan@D3PE]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...-Build-by-D3PE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W7n9QMDWE

[donk_316]

The layout of this message board makes it best to just search before asking. There are tons of buried threads about product releases that aren't in the vendor forums.

[rlhay2]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...-Build-by-D3PE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W7n9QMDWE

But what times does it run with the 6 speed manual transmission?

[Evan@D3PE]

But what times does it run with the 6 speed manual transmission?

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system?

[Nightstalker]

Good one

[Voice of Reason]

Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

[FLATOUT]

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system?

Evan do you guys have any 1/4 mile data with the kit at the 750-800rwhp range?

- - - Updated - - -

Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

Not shelved.

[Coloviper]

Not shelved.

Ha! Ha! Are you under a gag order from the EPA? (Kidding) At least a full sentence of details might be a little more appropriate Andy. Very excited at the potential of that kit. Does it at least seem hopeful it might be released this year? I guess for starters does the kit actually exist or was it still just a concept? Hey we are all expecting a factory like attention to detail and reliability but realize that takes a lot of time effort and a little luck to put together and test. Maybe a thread all to itself is appropriate. If you do, I bet it gets lots of views and traffic, stirring excitement for VE as the initial announcement was a big deal to many. Non response in the fashion above, when you are very open on most all other responses causes concern for those even remotely interested.

[Voice of Reason]

Ha! Ha! Are you under a gag order from the EPA? (Kidding) At least a full sentence of details might be a little more appropriate Andy. Very excited at the potential of that kit. Does it at least seem hopeful it might be released this year? I guess for starters does the kit actually exist or was it still just a concept? Hey we are all expecting a factory like attention to detail and reliability but realize that takes a lot of time effort and a little luck to put together and test. Maybe a thread all to itself is appropriate. If you do, I bet it gets lots of views and traffic, stirring excitement for VE as the initial announcement was a big deal to many. Non response in the fashion above, when you are very open on most all other responses causes concern for those even remotely interested.

Maybe Dodge was able to get it EPA certified so for the final year of production they're going to offer a Hellcat option? That would be amazing if they did so that's the rumor I'm starting.

[rlhay2]

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system?

Nothing...and still almost everything.

How many of your potential customers are expected to opt for the TH400 transmission?
And how many of your potential customers will keep their manual transmission?

Perhaps you are trying to market to the smaller customer base.
It was your R&D, it is your product to market it as you choose.

[Evan@D3PE]

Nothing...and still almost everything.

How many of your potential customers are expected to opt for the TH400 transmission?
And how many of your potential customers will keep their manual transmission?

Perhaps you are trying to market to the smaller customer base.
It was your R&D, it is your product to market it as you choose.

Evan do you guys have any 1/4 mile data with the kit at the 750-800rwhp range?

Nope, but still not sure how that discredits our supercharger system or has anything to do with this thread? Our supercharger system works, has been used and abused for many miles of daily driving and racing, makes power, doesn't chunk belts, etc, etc. Does Procharger or Whipple have to put an expert driver in every car they make a kit for and run times at every setting to prove they work?

[rlhay2]

Nope, but still not sure how that discredits our supercharger system or has anything to do with this thread? Our supercharger system works, has been used and abused for many miles of daily driving and racing, makes power, doesn't chunk belts, etc, etc. Does Procharger or Whipple have to put an expert driver in every car they make a kit for and run times at every setting to prove they work?

You are being evasive and misdirecting or misinterpreting my statements.
I have not discredited the supercharger package you guys have designed.
So we can leave that stone unturned.

Just run one with the 6-speed transmission that is available to 95% of the Viper customer base.
Or perhaps you intended this system as a drag race package: to be sold with a 3 speed trans with no overdrive.


As for the OP's original question:
The Arrow positive displacement, twin screw supercharger on a large displacement 2-valve motor is going to be an exercise in throttle control and/or traction management.

[Evan@D3PE]

You are being evasive and misdirecting or misinterpreting my statements.
I have not discredited the supercharger package you guys have designed.
So we can leave that stone unturned.

Just run one with the 6-speed transmission that is available to 95% of the Viper customer base.
Or perhaps you intended this system as a drag race package: to be sold with a 3 speed trans with no overdrive.


As for the OP's original question:
The Arrow positive displacement, twin screw supercharger on a large displacement 2-valve motor is going to be an exercise in throttle control and/or traction management.

A supercharger has nothing to do with a transmission. We've shown what the system is capable of and that it can handle any abuse. If/when I decide to run it and try to dial in a 6spd number, or one of our customers does it, I'm sure someone will still have an issue with it and it still won't be the apple to apple comparison you guys are trying to get

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

We also have one that uses a Paxton Novi 2000. Has made 790whp on the 6.5 lbs pulley.

[7TH_SIGN]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

[mjorgensen]

There are a lot of things happening at Arrow as a business whole and they are slammed with work. The S/C project is not over, but resources and politics do play major roles in this type of work since Arrow does have contracts. Also getting company's to make complicated parts for limited runs is not only hard, but expensive. Arrow really wants this S/C package to happen and they have every intension of seen it through there is just no hard timeline they can offer sorry.

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

The kits start at $10,999.00 and go up on there depending on fuel system and engine management options.

[FLATOUT]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

Heads, Cam, full exhaust, tuning, motor out, trans out installation. I could only post the price of the parts, minus exhaust and install to make it "look" much cheaper than it actually is. We advertise and sell everything complete and installed WITH a 12month/12000 mile warranty.

[IndyRon]

I think all the vendors that have posted have a quality product with excellent fit and finish. I get the desire to have times with a 6speed but the reality is we know the power output and can predict with pretty good certainty the timeslips. The 6speed will likely be within a few tenths in ET with a 3-5mph higher trap speed.

The only real question now is whether you want the driving characteristics and torque curve of a well thought out centrifugal system available now or a positive displacement system that may or may not be available anytime soon.

I appreciate the vendors bringing these products to market even if I'm not in the market for them LOL.

[Dman]

Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

Dodge is really good at secrets, so not hearing anything could mean it's dead or could mean it's announced next week. The Hellcats and the ACR both came out of silence for the most part. It does seem like some teasing would be better than this try at shock & awe they use, I mean who's going to steal their thunder over a SC'd viper? It's not like it's a Camaro vs mustang battle.


As for the aftermarket, are we saying there's no one running one of these kits that has run at the track? The auto trans setup I don't discredit at all, it was a setup for marketing & to set a record & well done. But yea, I don't see that as a setup for the Viper community, and there are installed kits out there, which is awesome, are these guys getting these kits and putting their cars in the garage?? Again, I'm a HUGE fan of D3 / Calvo, etc., amazing stuff, but I agree, not to be taken as demanding or anything, but I'd assume there's track experience with these kits, which would be nice to hear about & see, since if I or 95% of buyers wanted to pull the trigger, the most trans change we'd do is the clutch upgrade. But this is no big deal to me right now, I'm still figuring out if I'm long timing my car, in which case I might be interested, or doing a '17 in which case I wouldn't for quite a while. Meanwhile I wait for my R28 results, lol.

[Evan@D3PE]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

Evan, the SC kit has been in a car and working for months now without an issue on Motec. We tried our first HP tuners car last week and had one day with it. Towards the end of the day on the street we were very close to figuring out the rest of the bugs. We do however suggest a good engine management system and the use of knock control which you guys have stated you turn off on everything you guys tune. I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you, nor did I knock your product when I posted to a thread about Gen V Sc's, I would appreciate if you did the same.

[aNinjaneer]

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

Is this really necessary? We haven't pointed out the numerous issues you guys have had dealing with HPT, or the fact that you decided to gut the car to stuff an auto in there... Why is it so hard for shops to just point out their own accomplishments, instead of attempting to bash other shops? Personally, I wouldn't recommend HPT at all for the Viper, given its issues (that people have found band-aids for), especially if trying to make any amount of considerable power.

James has only had a few days to work on the couple of cars Antonio has built for stock PCM, one with the Novi 2000 and another turbo car. The first was a proof of concept that it could be done, and we drove it around on the street for over a week without any issues. The customer wanted the MoTeC, but it was tested on HPT just to see if it could be done, and it worked just fine, especially given the short window for testing before going MoTeC. Who knows how your car would do without the auto in there. You just did your first HPT s/c customer car recently, and it surely hasn't gotten enough miles for you to claim that it is perfect, and will never go into limp mode, like nearly every single HPT car does at some point. I don't blame any of the limp mode issues on tuners, from any shop, but on HPTs current lack of functionality. They simply haven't unlocked all of the tables required to PROPERLY run the car, especially in boosted applications. The product is still in its infancy.

Can we all just be civil, and not try to point fingers at everyone else? You have a product, that we've complimented plenty of times, and Antonio has products, as well. There is no need for anyone to bash anyone else. Antonio and I have both been completely transparent with everything, and are probably the only people who will be completely honest about the quirks we've run into. I'd rather tell someone we have issues we're sorting out than tell them we've figured everything out, and worry about figuring it out after they've brought in a car.

[FLATOUT]

The kits start at $10,999.00 and go up on there depending on fuel system and engine management options.

I'm trying to understand the pricing of the supercharger packages out there and what all you get for the advertised prices. This is in no way meant to piss anyone off I am just trying to understand.

Is the $10,999.00 inlcuding install, tune, exhaust, or is it the blower package itself minus everything else? And this question is to both shops that are advertising the kits. The base 750 kits out the door installed price is what?