Help with buying a Viper

[Enzo101]

Good morning members,
I recently joined the VOA because I have been looking a Viper and would like to get some information before I make a serious inquiry. I do apologize if these topics have all been covered. This car will be for my dad, he is looking for a retirement celebration vehicle. I let him drive my 2016 GT350 and he said it was too raw for him, that and finding another one at sticker is near impossible. He likes the Corvette but is not a GM fan. Thankfully, there is a certified SRT dealer near our hometown so a Viper looks much more appealing. The car in question is a "Used" 2013 SRT Viper Launch Edition. It has 132 miles on it and the dealership is asking $83,995 for it. I saw a 2013 down in Texas brand new sell for $70,000 under sticker but it was yellow. So here are my questions.

1) What is a good price to pay for the vehicle listed above? I was thinking half of sticker.
2) What are service cost like? (oil changes, filters cost, oil cost, ect.)
3) Are there any issues with it being a 13 and first year of production?
4) Are there any ways to keep the bottom of the seats from wrinkling? I've seen a few V gen Vipers with this issue.
5) How raw is it compared to the GT350? (I understand it is a totally different car but he wants something that is comfortable and can perform well)
6) Is the front bumper low enough that is scrapes on speed bumps or parking curbs?
7) What is sticker of a launch edition Viper?
8) Do you think because it is 1 of 150 it may be valuable one day? This doesn't have an affect on the purchase, just curiosity.
9) Do the side pipes cause a lot of in cabin heat? If so, are there aftermarket ways to fix this?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and any and all help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
-G

[13COBRA]

If he thinks the GT350 is too raw, he won't like a Viper.

I had my GT350 for less than 36 hours, decided it wasn't exciting enough, then sold it and purchased my ACR within a week.

[Enzo101]

I was afraid it was going to be to hardcore for him.

[Policy Limits]

1.) Wholesale is 60k, retail 75-80k 2.) Change oil twice per year, 300 bucks. 3) yes 5 recalls make sure they were addressed. 4) not really 5) can't comment haven't driven both, different leagues I suspect 6) 5 inches of clearance. Angle it and you're fine 7) 140k loaded 8) no 9) no again but careful exiting with shorts on

Great time to buy, 50 pennies on the dollar is a deal.

[Enzo101]

Thank you! This is very helpful. I was going to start negotiating at 60k and hope to be in the low 70s.

[98intrigue]

1) What is a good price to pay for the vehicle listed above? I was thinking half of sticker. I think the listed price is already a fantastic deal for a launch edition. I'm actually surprised at the prices I've been seeing LEs listed for. Six months ago, they were still in the upper $80Ks to low $90Ks and now I've seen a couple listed in the low $80Ks. If you don't care about mileage, I saw one listed at $69K with 22k miles on it.
2) What are service cost like? (oil changes, filters cost, oil cost, ect.) It's a relatively low maintenance car. Oil changes, if done yourself, can be done for around $60.
3) Are there any issues with it being a 13 and first year of production? There's a handful of recalls that you'll need to check on. http://recalls.mopar.com/
4) Are there any ways to keep the bottom of the seats from wrinkling? I've seen a few V gen Vipers with this issue. The laguna leather seats on the GTS are known for this. The standard sabelt leather seats, alcantara insert seats, and ballistic nylon seats don't seem as bad.
5) How raw is it compared to the GT350? (I understand it is a totally different car but he wants something that is comfortable and can perform well) I haven't driven/ridden in a GT350, but I don't think the Viper is anything to concerning.
6) Is the front bumper low enough that is scrapes on speed bumps or parking curbs? You'll be fine. I haven't scraped my TA once, which has the front splitters reduces clearance by about 2.5".
7) What is sticker of a launch edition Viper? It was $140,490, but that was before the $15,000 price reduction.
8) Do you think because it is 1 of 150 it may be valuable one day? This doesn't have an affect on the purchase, just curiosity. Maybe one day...but not anytime soon. The '96 blue/white cars are fetching good money for being 20yrs old, but they still haven't caught up to their original MSRP.
9) Do the side pipes cause a lot of in cabin heat? If so, are there aftermarket ways to fix this? Nothing compared to Gen 3/4 cars, but you can feel a good amount of heat if you stick your hand between the seat and side sill. You can purchase high flow cats or remove the cats all together, which greatly reduces the amount of heat caused by the 2 cats on each side of the car.

[13COBRA]

If he wants a neat car that is comfortable, a Challenger HC would probably be more up his alley.

[ViperSmith]

While I haven't driven a 350. I'd have to assume on the "raw" scale it is a 5.5/10 - the Viper is probably more a 8/10.

Those are good prices for those vehicles. Taking prices of what a 3 year old car sold as new on a dealer lot shouldn't indicate what they are going for price wise.

[swexlin]

If he wants a neat car that is comfortable, a Challenger HC would probably be more up his alley.

This was going to be my suggestion as well. Fast, comfy, can be had auto or stick. The Gen 5, while waaaay more comfy and composed than previous gens, is still a "raw" car compared to many.

[Enzo101]

Thank you! @98intrigue

[Enzo101]

We drove a 2016 SRT 392 and it was very nice! If the Viper doesn't work out that'll probably be the way to go. The Hellcat is a bit much and its impossible to test drive one. He likes the looks of the viper and the deals that they have right now.

[Enzo101]

It's actually pretty raw for a Mustang. This is coming from someone that hasn't had a real sports car. It'll be used for rallies and weekend trips so it being super raw may not be an issue. Have to drive one first.

[13COBRA]

The 13/14 GT500 was much more "raw".

[Enzo101]

Lol well yeah hahaha all that HP and a solid rear axel isn't the best for handling. Which is why he didn't buy one.

[TheKosherStogie]

^I believe you emailed me yesterday.

Goodluck with the search!

[lochnessmonster]

From what I can gather thus far, your father hasn't actually driven the Viper. I would suggest that he does the same with the Viper as he did with the GT350. Now, I haven't driven a GT350, but I can't imagine it being more "raw" than a Viper. There are many things about the Viper that make it both unique and unapologetic at the same time. Ingress and egress are issues for some people, and given that your father is purchasing this car as a retirement celebration car, I'm gathering he isn't in his 30's or 40's. I have absolutely no problem getting in and out of the car, but I would suggest that isn't going to be the case for everyone, and particularly someone further on in life. The GT350, I would imagine is much easier to get in and out of. Also, calling visibility out of the Viper "poor" is probably an understatement. He needs to drive the car to actually realize that, whenever you are trying to pull out of a parking lot etc., you must absolutely have the car at a 90 degree angle to the road you are going to pull out onto, or there will be no way you can see oncoming traffic from both directions. Does he want to drive a stick shift forever? The ride quality in my GTS is quite good in street mode for a car that is essentially a race car for the street, but by no means is it "comfortable." You still feel every bump, pebble, and imperfection in the road. Is he going to want to deal with this? Is storage capacity an issue? The Viper has a generous amount of storage for a supercar/racecar but by no means is it ample relative to other vehicles. Is he going to want to carry two golf bags or just one? If the answer is "two", forget it.

I would suggest that all of these issues be address before you or he even think about price, resale value, curb scraping, and service costs. Quite honestly, from what you've said, I don't think the Viper is the car for him. Like a woman, yes, it's absolutely gorgeous, and without question, it's going to make him want to take it out for dinner, and have a lot of fun afterwards, but is he really prepared to live with it on a daily basis?

[Dman]

Maybe you can get a test drive since it has miles on it.

Based on your #5, I'd have to agree, Viper probably isn't even a consideration. I've had 11 mustangs, including multiple GT500's, I have a '14 now and have driven a GT350, the GT350 is tame and easy compared to the GT500, and both are luxury cars by comparison to a viper, even a GTS. I'll take my wife out to dinner in the city or on a country multi-hour cruise in the GT500, the Viper, not so much, and I have a loaded GTS.

The wrinkle in the seats looks worse than it is IMO, I find in pics mine shows like it's wrinkled but in person it looks like rich leather, awesome.

As for rarity, actually the LE at 150 of them is one of the highest production numbers and is anything but rare, for example there are 53 black with silver stripe GTSs in 2013 which seems like a common combo, and 150 of the LE, 3 times as many of those, for a viper to be rare, you want under 50 made IMO, and 1of 1 is the ultimate, I personally see the LE as a bargain car, very early production so it can have bugs, but negotiating an extended warranty takes care of that.

I agree with the other posts above on other items, but unless he can test drive it, if the GT350 is too raw, I'd say pass big time on the viper. I would recommend a hellcat, especially a Challenger with 6 speed, what a blast of a car & you could drive those 24 hours & be comfy.

[Dman]

Lol well yeah hahaha all that HP and a solid rear axel isn't the best for handling. Which is why he didn't buy one.

You'd be surprised. On trackdays my '14 GT500 easily drives around 911s, race prepped WRXs, vettes, I driven around multiple Z06s and a calloway. The GT500 is hugely underestimated on the road course, I love taking it out there and the reaction of people after a few sessions and how they can't believe how it handles compared to the field. Yes, some of it is certainly the driver, and I run a much improved wheel/tire setup, and 703rwhp, but you know, that's it. lo

[kbench55]

We drove a 2016 SRT 392 and it was very nice! If the Viper doesn't work out that'll probably be the way to go. The Hellcat is a bit much and its impossible to test drive one. He likes the looks of the viper and the deals that they have right now.

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

[swexlin]

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

This exactly! Hellcat or nothing if going SRT8.

[darbgnik]

I think the wrinkling is because they used real leather with the Laguna interiors, not that fabric bonded "leather" you'll find in Escalades, Rams, etc. FWIW, I love the nylon seats, but for everyone that thought they wanted real leather, now you have it..... But I agree it looks less relevant in person.

Also, I love the Viper, but raw is an understatement. He should really drive one, an extended test drive, to know what he's in for. The Challenger is less "sportscar" than both the Viper and GT350, but it would still be a fun car.

[Coloviper]

Raw can mean different things to different people. For example, raw to me is how the car rides. A hopped and solid suspension race car is a raw car. The power, idle, gas mileage, interior features or lack there of, etc. might be raw to another individual.

So if raw to your Dad means how the car rides and a GT350 would qualify as raw, then I would make the following suggestion. Pick up a used GTS model car (13/14). Some can be had in low 70s with low miles. Then put on the Viper Exchange shock package so you can use the center console to change settings or a MCS suspension system dialed down on the softest settings. Plan on a new set of Pirelli tires and that will make the car ride like a boulevard cruiser. It just takes the harshness out of the car. As sound also contributes to a driving experience, find one with a stock exhaust and a 18 speaker stereo upgrade because then it gets the additional sound deadner from the factory. The only other potential dial in for comfort or less rawness is to consider to have the seats redone by Venzano. Some complain about the bottoms and backs not having enough padding. Venzano can fix that. I rode in one with the Venzano fix and it was very, noticeable in a good way.

Most Vipers owners like to brag about their rawness Viper, but the GEN V is a pussy cat in rawness factor compared to a GEN I. Hope it helps! It sounds like your Dad has already been attracted to the Viper based upon your comments but the cost new is what has held him back. In the end, if that is the case, you can get a GT-350 for him but remember he will still want a Viper. The Viper owners and Viper family contribute to 1/2 of the enjoyment of the car, when you look at the overall ownership experience. Being born a Blue Oval boy and owning a ton of Mustangs over the years, I eventually worked up to a Viper. Truth be told, I don't even look twice at a Mustang now. I still have a place in my heart for them (and own a few collector Saleens) but owning a Viper and interacting with the Viper passionate owners, is a whole other experience entirely. I think your Dad will value that experience beyond the car itself.

[Enzo101]

From what I can gather thus far, your father hasn't actually driven the Viper. I would suggest that he does the same with the Viper as he did with the GT350. Now, I haven't driven a GT350, but I can't imagine it being more "raw" than a Viper. There are many things about the Viper that make it both unique and unapologetic at the same time. Ingress and egress are issues for some people, and given that your father is purchasing this car as a retirement celebration car, I'm gathering he isn't in his 30's or 40's. I have absolutely no problem getting in and out of the car, but I would suggest that isn't going to be the case for everyone, and particularly someone further on in life. The GT350, I would imagine is much easier to get in and out of. Also, calling visibility out of the Viper "poor" is probably an understatement. He needs to drive the car to actually realize that, whenever you are trying to pull out of a parking lot etc., you must absolutely have the car at a 90 degree angle to the road you are going to pull out onto, or there will be no way you can see oncoming traffic from both directions. Does he want to drive a stick shift forever? The ride quality in my GTS is quite good in street mode for a car that is essentially a race car for the street, but by no means is it "comfortable." You still feel every bump, pebble, and imperfection in the road. Is he going to want to deal with this? Is storage capacity an issue? The Viper has a generous amount of storage for a supercar/racecar but by no means is it amble relative to other vehicles. Is he going to want to carry two golf bags or just one? If the answer is "two", forget it.

I would suggest that all of these issues be address before you or he even think about price, resale value, curb scraping, and service costs. Quite honestly, from what you've said, don't think the Viper is the car for him. Like a woman, yes, it's absolutely gorgeous, and without question, it's going to make him want to take it out for dinner, and have a lot of fun afterwards, but is he really prepared to live with it on a daily basis?

You bring up some very good points! He loves manuals and it is becoming harder and harder to find. He is 65 and getting in and out is an issue. We have been unable to locate one, nearest one is about 200 miles away besides the one mentioned. I asked about service because we were looking into a GTR but service was way to expensive for his taste so it is something to consider. I have yet to see the trunk of one but I will be in Memphis tomorrow to take a look at one at a dealer and be able to answer some of the questions that you asked. I really appreciate the response!

[Enzo101]

Maybe you can get a test drive since it has miles on it.

Based on your #5, I'd have to agree, Viper probably isn't even a consideration. I've had 11 mustangs, including multiple GT500's, I have a '14 now and have driven a GT350, the GT350 is tame and easy compared to the GT500, and both are luxury cars by comparison to a viper, even a GTS. I'll take my wife out to dinner in the city or on a country multi-hour cruise in the GT500, the Viper, not so much, and I have a loaded GTS.

The wrinkle in the seats looks worse than it is IMO, I find in pics mine shows like it's wrinkled but in person it looks like rich leather, awesome.

As for rarity, actually the LE at 150 of them is one of the highest production numbers and is anything but rare, for example there are 53 black with silver stripe GTSs in 2013 which seems like a common combo, and 150 of the LE, 3 times as many of those, for a viper to be rare, you want under 50 made IMO, and 1of 1 is the ultimate, I personally see the LE as a bargain car, very early production so it can have bugs, but negotiating an extended warranty takes care of that.

I agree with the other posts above on other items, but unless he can test drive it, if the GT350 is too raw, I'd say pass big time on the viper. I would recommend a hellcat, especially a Challenger with 6 speed, what a blast of a car & you could drive those 24 hours & be comfy.

I had no idea the viper was that raw of a car. The previous gen yes but not the new one, not that there's anything wrong with that. That's the appeal of the Viper. I'm hoping to test drive one soon to make a final decision on it. Again idc about if it'll appreciate over time. It was more of a curiosity thing but thank you for your insightful input!

[Enzo101]

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

Totally forgot about being able to change the horsepower. The dealer right down the road just got a white on tan. If it had a stick I probably would not have posted anything on this forum and it would be sitting pretty next to the 350.