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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Conte View Post
    Your Viper is your slowest sports car.
    Depends on whether or not you're turning.

  2. #102
    The guy that spent 2 weeks posting 2000hp of fuel consumption isn't allowed to say the word "Turning" for at least a month.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Conte View Post
    The guy that spent 2 weeks posting 2000hp of fuel consumption isn't allowed to say the word "Turning" for at least a month.
    Well then you aren't allowed to list all of your wife's cars in your signature.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNinjaneer View Post
    Well then you aren't allowed to list all of your wife's cars in your signature.

  5. #105
    +rep, that was so funny S**T

  6. #106
    Well played...well played.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNinjaneer View Post
    But yes, HPT for the Gen V is nowhere near a finished product, and as you said, I believe it is still in Beta.
    It hasn't been in beta since the release of VCM Suite 3.0, and that was back on February 1st of this year. They just released VCM Suite 3.2 back in June. It still isn't a fully developed solution (being able to adjust knock sensitivity would be nice, as would a few other things I've addressed over on the HPT forum), but it definitely isn't beta.

    As for the reference to the 5-10 bolt-on cars going into limp mode, that was a known and well documented issue with adjusting one table for better throttle response. That was also VERY early on (about 2 years ago at this point), pretty much right after the product hit the market, and people were still trying to figure out what worked and what didn't. If a bolt-on car is going into limp mode with HPT these days, it's because the guy clicking the mouse did something wrong. Suggesting otherwise is misleading at best.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
    Viper > Supra
    Man I miss mine sometimes. Like I can't sleep. Maybe it's just me withdrawing from boost! Do you still have both of yours?
    Last edited by 7TH_SIGN; 07-15-2016 at 11:15 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by rlhay2 View Post
    Sounds great! Now please share the link to the vid of a D3PE Viper with the manual transmission making a 1/4 mile run please. ETs is not that important, trap speed will be the most informative.
    What? Am I in charge of what they do with their car? They went with an auto to get 1/4 mile records and they accomplished it. Seems like it runs well to me.

    As has been stated, HPTuners is a beta product. It may evolve to a damn good solution for boosted applications. It does not appear to be there yet.
    Ok well maybe it will get there? Saying people shouldn't use it doesn't make sense. You use it unless your sig is off. Guess you are comfortable with beta? Or maybe it's not as rudimentary as some imply?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Conte View Post
    Sticky I think the issue is that you're not trying to see both sides here. Calvo and Collin are trying to deliver a quality product for their customers. The better the product is the happier the customers are. The less issues these customers have the happier they are, the more people they tell and the more repeat business Antonio and Collin can get.

    When you have a solid option that you can deliver repeatable results with that is the option you choose. They attempted to make a lower rung package to save customers money in an effort to reach a second group of buyers, but were up front that they were unhappy with the mid-term quality of the end product. So they wanted some more time to see if they could get it to where they were satisfied (AKA - stating that more HP Tuners development was needed and saying they were going to try and take that on before making a final decision that the customer needed to move to something they could be satisfied with the end result of - Motec).

    When that option was no longer there after the car was crashed, they moved to the stance that with so many hours already invested into that car and the shortcomings it had and how much more work it looked like it would need - and probably a pretty good educated guess about if it was going to ever act the way they wanted (sans more development from HP Tuners internally) - they said that they are not interested in trying to develop that lower rung package any longer.

    To be upset at them for saying that in their experience after a legitimate attempt, they do not feel that HP Tuners currently will allow them to deliver a finished product up to their standards is you being very unreasonable.

    They have standards, found a solution. The solution that Collin and Antonio developed took TONS of hours, the M1 software is different than a normal ECU where everything is done, you configure the sensors and go about your day. They had to write firmware, they had to figure out all the CAN language for the dash. It is an extremely involved operation. In essence they had to write all the things that HP Tuners needs to figure out how to unlock, and additionally write in all the things that the stock ECU doesn't have parameters for. It was an extremely in depth undertaking which is why you can't just go buy a M1 and put it on your Viper, it must be purchased through Calvo Motorsports because they own the software package for the car.

    So beyond the fact that they even gave the HP Tuners a real shot, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them championing a better system, and even moreso, a system they had to spend thousands of dollars developing so that they could even use it.

    Reading your responses I'm having a difficult time figuring out what you actually want out of the conversation. I can't tell if you're just feeling like them not continuing to work on HP Tuners is them in some way calling your baby ugly - which only makes sense to me if you are a Chrysler OEM ECU Engineer.

    But either way you're definitely being unreasonable in terms of how much you're running these guys through the ringer for promoting a far and away better performing option. Even if HP Tuners figures out the cheat code that completely unlocks every aspect of the ECU, the Motec is still going to be better. You do understand that right? And even if it was entirely unlocked, it would still be OK for them to recommend the Motec.

    You aren't appreciating the amount of time it takes to get an unstable platform, or an undeveloped platform to work correctly. Looking to save $15,000 of ECU is all well and good until the calibrator needs 100 hours of dynoing your car over and over to try and make it have the same 3000rpm 43% throttle 1lb of boost hiccup go away that only occurs at 62 degrees ambient.

    Well if he bills you for that time you just spent the $15k again and have an inferior product. And who knows if he can even make it go away. And that doesn't count the eighty loaded hits on the dyno they may need to do on your engine which might be an entire season of driving for the owners buying this package.

    These are the things that you eliminate when going with a solid system where you aren't hamstrung by "what is locked" or trying to make something that doesn't want to see boost operate a turbo engine at over two atmospheres.
    If wanting further details on stock ECU tuned examples is running someone through the ringer well then so be it. They posted this thread themselves. I didn't even know about the Stage 6 setup on HP Tuners or that anyone cracked quadruple digits on the stock ECU until this thread. I'm learning and I hope others are too about their options. How else do you propose to utilize a forum?

    I don't know how many times I need to say I think Calvo's offering is a great product. $55k cash is a lot of money to me and I'm not prepared to dump it on a turbo kit worth more than 50% of the value of the car. Some people don't mind. Good for them, it's all relative.

    The point is the Calvo tuner continually pushes his approach as the only approach. I think that's pretty lame. Especially considering people are doing all kinds of interesting things all kinds of different ways. He discounted D3PE and they went out and took the 1/4 mile record. If that isn't showing the capability of stock ECU tuned force induction Gen V cars I don't know what is.

    Let's not forget the Dodge engineers specifically put forged internals in this motor for those who want to run nitrous or turbos. It's a strong engine. They knew people would boost it. People are even doing it on the stock ECU and it's holding together. This motor makes quadruple digits without breaking a sweat. Even on the stock ECU as nitrous build after nitrous build has shown.

    I'm not appreciating what exactly? Their turbo setup is great. The Motec is great. What I don't appreciate is a 'tuner' misleading an entire forum that his way is the only way.
    Last edited by Sticky; 07-16-2016 at 05:18 AM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by aNinjaneer View Post
    I just spoke to Dwight (Stage 6) the other day asking about Torrie's car. His car has never ran at any event, so who knows how well it actually runs on the street. He also said that they, too, are running into limp mode at elevated boost levels. How many shops running boosted cars on HPT need to experience limp mode for you to consider for a second that the product is simply not mature enough to offer a turbo package with any sort of warranty?
    If you are as good of a tuner as you want the forum to think you are why don't you help them out? Or would that cut into the profit margin?

    It's just a matter of time before it's figured out. All stock DME tuning on every platform evolves. I think it's encouraging that we are seeing what we are seeing already. I like to think positively of what can be done instead of trying to make it seem like it can't be done.

    Much respect to those pushing the Gen V and stock ECU tuning. Someone has to do it...

  12. #112
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    Desperate troll is desperate and still trolling.

    It's time to close this thread.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by rlhay2 View Post
    Desperate troll is desperate and still trolling.

    It's time to close this thread.
    X2. It's very obvious

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by rlhay2 View Post
    Desperate troll is desperate and still trolling.

    It's time to close this thread.
    It certainly takes one to know one. Your posts regarding what D3PE does with their Viper being my responsibility add a ton to the thread. Not to mention your pointless insults that you throw around.

    Could have sworn the topic was a stock ECU tuned twin turbo Viper. Sorry people wanting to discuss this and learn about the pros and cons bothers you so much. Maybe you're the troll? Go read a different thread if you have nothing to contribute other than asking for it to be closed because you can't handle it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
    X2. It's very obvious
    Get a room you two.

  15. #115
    What is there to discuss? The shop and tuner have posted opinions on it. You're the only one still on it. It seems the only issue you have is Collin not liking HPT, where in reality that just doesn't matter. If Calvo doesn't want to pursue it anymore, you being a cry baby about it on the internet isn't going to change that.

    When do you start working on HP tuning with a TT Viper? Since you're so dead set on it working I assume you have or have intentions of building a boosted Gen5?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
    What is there to discuss? The shop and tuner have posted opinions on it. You're the only one still on it. It seems the only issue you have is Collin not liking HPT, where in reality that just doesn't matter. If Calvo doesn't want to pursue it anymore, you being a cry baby about it on the internet isn't going to change that.

    When do you start working on HP tuning with a TT Viper? Since you're so dead set on it working I assume you have or have intentions of building a boosted Gen5?
    They are welcome to their opinions. What, I'm not welcome to mine? It also means HP Tuners discussion ceases as a whole?

    Whether someone likes or dislikes HP Tuners or stock ECU tuning is irrelevant. It is still pertinent to Gen V forced induction discussion as a whole.

    I don't care if Calvo wants to pursue it or not, so what? The discussion as a whole can move forward with or without Calvo's blesing. They can do whatever they want as it's their business. I'm not dead set on it working but I'm certainly interested in those who have tried or have it working. The discussion on stock ECU tuning doesn't end because Calvo's tuner doesn't like it.
    Last edited by Sticky; 07-17-2016 at 04:14 AM.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
    It certainly takes one to know one. Your posts regarding what D3PE does with their Viper being my responsibility add a ton to the thread. Not to mention your pointless insults that you throw around.
    My 14 year old has more cogent arguments.

    You cited D3PE to support your argument. There is no proof that they have had success with a manual transmission, stock engine, Force Induction Viper. Like many, I love the idea of a F1X on a Viper, there is just no proof that it works...yet.

    I wish you the best on your pursuits. But your childlike demeanor on this forum is not going to behoove many to share information with you.

    Calvo tried a HPT TT car and deemed it unsuccessful. Feel free to start another thread, imploring to hear of the success of others.
    Most vendors are going to be leery of posting in another shop's thread.

    You'll likely dismiss this advice, it's what children do.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by rlhay2 View Post
    My 14 year old has more cogent arguments.
    He must take after his mom.

    You cited D3PE to support your argument. There is no proof that they have had success with a manual transmission, stock engine, Force Induction Viper. Like many, I love the idea of a F1X on a Viper, there is just no proof that it works...yet.
    Seriously? LOL, even Hennessey is selling the D3PE kit. They used an auto because an auto is easier to launch on the strip. The kit worked fine with a manual. Why would the transmission choice mean the blower doesn't work? Huh?

    I wish you the best on your pursuits. But your childlike demeanor on this forum is not going to behoove many to share information with you.
    I don't care what you wish me as I have no respect for your opinion at this point.

    Calvo tried a HPT TT car and deemed it unsuccessful.
    So what? This means an HPT tuned TT car is impossible or that others can't do it? Did you ignore the posts about other attempts by other people?

    You'll likely dismiss this advice, it's what children do.
    No, it's what adults do when someone who has no idea what they're talking about tries to sound like they do. You just smile, nod, laugh to yourself, and move on.

  19. #119
    Load
    Torque management on the shifts
    Wheel spin

    Just a few things the auto changes drastically

  20. #120
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    Strange how someone who isn't building FI cars at all knows more and better than people who use it daily to build FI cars.

  21. #121
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    Nothing strange, penis envy is a powerful motivator.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSmith View Post
    Strange how someone who isn't building FI cars at all knows more and better than people who use it daily to build FI cars.

  22. #122
    All that really needs to be said here is that not a single FI car without an auto on HPT has made it to any events. At all. And the one auto that did went into limp mode after every burnout. I've given you numerous examples of cars that have consistently had limp mode issues, but yet you still "feel" like I'm being biased because I like a product that works 100% every time. We tried HPT on boost multiple times, and were never satisfied with it. I tried, James tried, and none of us were content. I developed a product that works, and it's what we're sticking with. Period.

    But again, you're welcome to buy HPT for your car and start playing with it. Then you can fab up your own turbo kit and show us all how it's done. If you manage to pull it off, you'll surely sell a number of kits, so have at it.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSmith View Post
    Strange how someone who isn't building FI cars at all knows more and better than people who use it daily to build FI cars.
    I only happen to own over 40 forums dedicated to forced induction cars. Maybe I do know better?

    If selling forced induction cars made anyone a genius Hennessey would be considered one. He isn't.
    Last edited by Sticky; 07-17-2016 at 02:36 PM.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by aNinjaneer View Post
    All that really needs to be said here is that not a single FI car without an auto on HPT has made it to any events. At all. And the one auto that did went into limp mode after every burnout. I've given you numerous examples of cars that have consistently had limp mode issues, but yet you still "feel" like I'm being biased because I like a product that works 100% every time. We tried HPT on boost multiple times, and were never satisfied with it. I tried, James tried, and none of us were content. I developed a product that works, and it's what we're sticking with. Period.

    But again, you're welcome to buy HPT for your car and start playing with it. Then you can fab up your own turbo kit and show us all how it's done. If you manage to pull it off, you'll surely sell a number of kits, so have at it.
    Didn't D3PE take the 1/4 mile record from you with a centrifugal when you're running turbos? Why aren't you talking about that? More power and torque yet you're slower? Why aren't you getting out to a strip or have you admitted defeat? Why are you creating arbitrary requirements for a system to work?

    All you talk about is limp mode issues that cars had in the past. Big deal, like your Motec setup worked flawlessly the moment a harness was created.

    I'm welcome to buy HPT and fab up a kit and sell it? Cool. The thing is I won't do that. I have no vested monetary interest in this topic. You do. That alone says plenty about why you push the Motec so hard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack B View Post
    Nothing strange, penis envy is a powerful motivator.
    Penis envy and common sense are synonyms now. Heh, the Viper world sure is interesting. Especially with the fragile egos.
    Last edited by Sticky; 07-17-2016 at 02:49 PM.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
    I only happen to own over 40 forums dedicated to forced induction cars. Maybe I do know better?
    Then I would expect you should know something about forum etiquette...

    Coming in here just to argue, isn't what this forum is about...

    Discussion and debate is fine, but your purposeless inflammatory, insulting, trolling posts are against forum policy.


 
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