Crash's twin turbo Gen V on Hp tuners

[Junkie]

Better get a Motec before you put it into a wall, right?

It's had a Motec since 07...

What is the point you are trying to make? Saying Motec will make a TT Viper safer? That is true.

[rlhay2]

What is the point you are trying to make? Saying Motec will make a TT Viper safer? That is true.

Just another uninformed keyboard warrior...in a few months, he'll likely move on to something else.

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

It's had a Motec since 07...

What is the point you are trying to make? Saying Motec will make a TT Viper safer? That is true.

That guy is wearing me out. He doesn't want to be informed, just wants to argue.

[Junkie]

Just another uninformed keyboard warrior...in a few months, he'll likely move on to something else.

That guy is wearing me out. He doesn't want to be informed, just wants to argue.

positive rep. Thats exactly how it reads to me.

EDIT: I must spread some rep before giving anymore to rlhay2

[aNinjaneer]

I've seen Calvo's tuner dismiss stock ECU tuning time and time again. I also read Calvo imply the Motec safety features would have prevented this accident.

You sound pretty stressed. I'm content to use the forum for answers to my questions. Maybe you should pick up a phone and call someone to give you a hug?

Just because an OEM ECU was not designed for forced induction doesn't mean it won't work. I could show you 1032480138410803810358105803018 aftermarket examples along with D3PE's on the Gen V but let's not make you any angrier. #hack

Not dismiss its ability to RUN the motor... Not at all. But definitely to do the "same" thing that a quality EMS can do. That is indisputable. A stock PCM is unable to do boost by gear, traction control, sophisticated knock control, a launch control that actually works, closed-loop fueling, closed-loop boost control, etc. Never once have I said you can't get a motor to RUN on stock PCM. You're just putting words in everyone else's mouths.

[7TH_SIGN]

aNinaneer, I just saw the dyno pull you all did at JMS. Unbelievable how good it sounded. It even spun with the extra people in the trunk? Excellent work!

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

aNinaneer, I just saw the dyno pull you all did at JMS. Unbelievable how good it sounded. It even spun with the extra people in the trunk? Excellent work!

That was me driving....I know its hard to confuse two pasty white kits LOL

[aNinjaneer]

aNinaneer, I just saw the dyno pull you all did at JMS. Unbelievable how good it sounded. It even spun with the extra people in the trunk? Excellent work!

Yep, still spun, even with track bite on the tires and all those people in the trunk lol.

That was me driving....I know its hard two confuse to pasty white kits LOL

I don't think he was saying I was driving lol. Just saw my post.

[7TH_SIGN]

Yep, still spun, even with track bite on the tires and all those people in the trunk lol.



I don't think he was saying I was driving lol. Just saw my post.

That was me driving....I know its hard to confuse two pasty white kits LOL

Haha Yeah I saw Antonio, Love the thumbs up and 100% throttle, straight to business! Car is a beast and looking forward to seeing you guys run it! That transmission seems to be doing very well! Huge power numbers!

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

Haha Yeah I saw Antonio, Love the thumbs up and 100% throttle, straight to business! Car is a beast and looking forward to seeing you guys run it! That transmission seems to be doing very well! Huge power numbers!

I honestly couldn't be happier with the car. Just wish I could find a copper spark plug solution!

[38D]

Your so right about people wrecking even stock Vipers. I never could understand why so many people crash stock Vipers?!?! The car is so easy to drive. Lack of experience maybe?

Every car is easy to drive when the steering wheel is straight. And its not raining. And there isn't another car trying to squeeze you off the apex. And there is no pressure.

[Sticky]

That guy is wearing me out. He doesn't want to be informed, just wants to argue.

I'm pretty sure I asked for an update on a stock ECU turbo build? I'm more interested in learning about stock tuned forced induction results than being told I need a Motec or the car will end up in a wall.

[Sticky]

Not dismiss its ability to RUN the motor... Not at all. But definitely to do the "same" thing that a quality EMS can do. That is indisputable. A stock PCM is unable to do boost by gear, traction control, sophisticated knock control, a launch control that actually works, closed-loop fueling, closed-loop boost control, etc. Never once have I said you can't get a motor to RUN on stock PCM. You're just putting words in everyone else's mouths.

Words in your mouth? This thread, Page 2: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...fits-of-an-EMS

Your words:

As for arguing that my post has anything to do with selling MoTeCs, that is absolutely incorrect. I would make more money in less time with a stock reflash, I just simply am not impressed with the stock reflash options right now. Even with bringing in functionality similar to what they've developed for other platforms, such as the vettes, I wouldn't be happy with my options. For some people, it's perfectly fine to sacrifice all of the added features for the cost, but if you're going to be racing often, EMSs just give you so much more control over everything. I'm a firm believer in doing things right, not doing them cheap/easy. Not that there's anything wrong with being content with HPT, it's just not ideal. I've certainly done plenty of cars in stock ECU, but the currently solution for the Gen Vs is not acceptable, in my opinion.

You go on in that thread to dismiss the stock ECU and push a Motec on everyone. If you like I can post more quotes but I don't think it's necessary. You also stated a Motec is necessary for a centrifugal supercharger which D3PE proved is clearly not true.

The point being nobody is going to say a Motec isn't great or a better option. It sure is. It also is adding $20k to these builds. Maybe instead of telling everyone the stock ECU is unacceptable we could discuss stock ECU tuning, adjustments, and improvements?

Maybe more turbo sales would happen if people could move from the stock ECU to a Motec instead of having to do $50k+ at once? Is it so wrong to explore all options at all price points instead of dismissing them?

[TwinVipers]

Junkie I agree with you 100%. If I hadn't sold it I would have definitely switched to an EMS with boost by gear and traction control. Your so right about people wrecking even stock Vipers. I never could understand why so many people crash stock Vipers?!?! The car is so easy to drive. Lack of experience maybe?



Your correct but though different cars, as Junkie stated (he has owned both) the Supra when running large frame turbos (80mm+) hits extremely hard and fast! Actually the most violent car I've personally every owned/driven. Not to mention the Viper can house much more rubber for the rear tires unlike the Supra. My 3.4l stroker made great torque numbers as well. The car is dead, dead, dead, 6,500rpms hold on tight for dear life to 9,000rpms!

Damn that car is an animal! Was that yours?

[7TH_SIGN]

Every car is easy to drive when the steering wheel is straight. And its not raining. And there isn't another car trying to squeeze you off the apex. And there is no pressure.

Not going to get in to an argument on drag vs track racing but I and many others here who have actually piloted a 1000+whp 6-speed manual transmission car down a drag strip respectfully beg to differ on your assumption, let alone the streets.

Damn that car is an animal! Was that yours?

Yes sir. It was. Sold it last summer.

[Jdmuscle]

All of these Supra references around here... Generally people don't realize what that little 183ci can do with a big turbo especially with a V160 behind the 2J.

[aNinjaneer]

Words in your mouth? This thread, Page 2: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...fits-of-an-EMS

Your words:



You go on in that thread to dismiss the stock ECU and push a Motec on everyone. If you like I can post more quotes but I don't think it's necessary. You also stated a Motec is necessary for a centrifugal supercharger which D3PE proved is clearly not true.

The point being nobody is going to say a Motec isn't great or a better option. It sure is. It also is adding $20k to these builds. Maybe instead of telling everyone the stock ECU is unacceptable we could discuss stock ECU tuning, adjustments, and improvements?

Maybe more turbo sales would happen if people could move from the stock ECU to a Motec instead of having to do $50k+ at once? Is it so wrong to explore all options at all price points instead of dismissing them?

I'm flattered you spent the time to go and look up my quotes, but are you reading the same thing I am? In what you quoted, I pretty explicitly stated that you can run the car on HPT, but because of a lack of a number of features, it's not what we wanted to build. Trust me, it's the first thing we tried, and just weren't satisfied with it. Not only does it lack features, but depending on what/how you changed some of the tables, the car went into limp mode. You had to spend hours on the dyno just to figure out what the ECU liked and what it did not.

On William's car, James decided to give it another go. He got the car to run with the turbos, but it just did not drive the way it should, due to the things he had to do to trick the PCM into allowing boost. To the best of my knowledge, that is the only turbo Gen V to have ever run on the stock PCM. James arguably has more HPT experience with Gen Vs than anyone else, and even he was not happy with the initial results. He never got the car back to finish, and we've not really been interested in trying again.

We've developed a system that works, and customers are extremely satisfied with it. There's really no incentive for us to spend considerable time with a company that is unwilling to work with us on a product that is half developed.

I'm not trying to push MoTeC on anyone, as I don't make any money on selling the hardware, nor can I sell it, and my firmware is only available to Calvo Motorsports. I simply posted a thread about all of the things you gain with an EMS over the factory PCM. We're really happy with all of the improvements we've made with each car, and we're simply sharing our advancements. Maybe one day when HPT fully unlocks the entire PCM, we can try again and work around the other limiting factors.

[Sticky]

I'm flattered you spent the time to go and look up my quotes, but are you reading the same thing I am? In what you quoted, I pretty explicitly stated that you can run the car on HPT, but because of a lack of a number of features, it's not what we wanted to build. Trust me, it's the first thing we tried, and just weren't satisfied with it. Not only does it lack features, but depending on what/how you changed some of the tables, the car went into limp mode. You had to spend hours on the dyno just to figure out what the ECU liked and what it did not.

On William's car, James decided to give it another go. He got the car to run with the turbos, but it just did not drive the way it should, due to the things he had to do to trick the PCM into allowing boost. To the best of my knowledge, that is the only turbo Gen V to have ever run on the stock PCM. James arguably has more HPT experience with Gen Vs than anyone else, and even he was not happy with the initial results. He never got the car back to finish, and we've not really been interested in trying again.

We've developed a system that works, and customers are extremely satisfied with it. There's really no incentive for us to spend considerable time with a company that is unwilling to work with us on a product that is half developed.

I'm not trying to push MoTeC on anyone, as I don't make any money on selling the hardware, nor can I sell it, and my firmware is only available to Calvo Motorsports. I simply posted a thread about all of the things you gain with an EMS over the factory PCM. We're really happy with all of the improvements we've made with each car, and we're simply sharing our advancements. Maybe one day when HPT fully unlocks the entire PCM, we can try again and work around the other limiting factors.

You're flattered I used a forum's quote feature? You must be easily impressed.

Are you reading what I'm writing? That HP Tuners certainly can evolve and has evolved and so with it can stock ECU tuning. Early on people said an aftermarket cam was impossible with HP Tuners. Well, guess what? It's possible without the Arrow module despite some people pushing that option hard. A centrifugal blower is possible as well. A turbo setup was done by Calvo on the stock ECU, right? So clearly things can evolve and be done differently.

Simply saying, 'Motec OMG MOTEC MOTEC MOTEC MOTEC' to everything doesn't help the platform advance or help advance stock ECU tuning. Everyone gets it. The Motec is extremely capable. Cool beans, it's awesome. Discussing stock ECU tuning is fine too. Maybe you'll eventually be satisfied with it if people keep pushing forward with development? Discounting as a whole as you did (your words I quoted) doesn't help.

Do whatever makes you happy and whatever your customers want. People can explore other options as well. Tuning will evolve.

[Junkie]

Not going to get in to an argument on drag vs track racing but I and many others here who have actually piloted a 1000+whp 6-speed manual transmission car down a drag strip respectfully beg to differ on your assumption, let alone the streets.

Yes sir. It was. Sold it last summer.

Every car is easy to drive when the steering wheel is straight. And its not raining. And there isn't another car trying to squeeze you off the apex. And there is no pressure.

7th sign nailed it. I've road raced and driven 8 second manual trans street cars, being good at either isn't easy….



As far as the stock ECU tuning goes, maybe Sticky should just send him car somewhere else? I would assume you have a Viper and you're wanting to send it somewhere for twins? Antonio doesn't seem to have any interest in stock ECU stuff anymore, so thats the end of it. Why debate back and forth on something the vendor has no intentions of doing?

[Sticky]

As far as the stock ECU tuning goes, maybe Sticky should just send him car somewhere else? I would assume you have a Viper and you're wanting to send it somewhere for twins? Antonio doesn't seem to have any interest in stock ECU stuff anymore, so thats the end of it. Why debate back and forth on something the vendor has no intentions of doing?

I'm not trying to convince Calvo to do stock ECU tuning I'm trying to learn more about stock ECU tuning on the Gen V with turbos. This is a thread about a stock ECU tuned turbo Viper, right? If there are others, point me in their direction.

[v10tt]

Torrie from Unleashed Tuning has his TT running perfect on HPT, on 9 lbs. It took him a while to sort it out, but he got it on the $ according to him.
We've developed a Twin Turbo System that utilizes the OEM ECU. Our system has dyno'd 1002whp and 938wtq on 93 octane gas and stock engine.

[aNinjaneer]

Torrie from Unleashed Tuning has his TT running perfect on HPT, on 9 lbs. It took him a while to sort it out, but he got it on the $ according to him.
We've developed a Twin Turbo System that utilizes the OEM ECU. Our system has dyno'd 1002whp and 938wtq on 93 octane gas and stock engine.

I remember seeing an initial dyno video then never saw anything about that car again. Has it ever run at any sort of event? I've known Dwight for a long time, and was talking to him when the car was being built, just kinda forgot about it since I haven't heard anything about it.

[Jack B]

That was well put, I do not know why those facts are so hard to understand.

It is obvious that certain individuals have never used HPT themselves, nor, do they realize the viper version is not a complete version. Another issue is the inability to access "enhanced" PIDS, like knock retard.

I'm flattered you spent the time to go and look up my quotes, but are you reading the same thing I am? In what you quoted, I pretty explicitly stated that you can run the car on HPT, but because of a lack of a number of features, it's not what we wanted to build. Trust me, it's the first thing we tried, and just weren't satisfied with it. Not only does it lack features, but depending on what/how you changed some of the tables, the car went into limp mode. You had to spend hours on the dyno just to figure out what the ECU liked and what it did not.

On William's car, James decided to give it another go. He got the car to run with the turbos, but it just did not drive the way it should, due to the things he had to do to trick the PCM into allowing boost. To the best of my knowledge, that is the only turbo Gen V to have ever run on the stock PCM. James arguably has more HPT experience with Gen Vs than anyone else, and even he was not happy with the initial results. He never got the car back to finish, and we've not really been interested in trying again.

We've developed a system that works, and customers are extremely satisfied with it. There's really no incentive for us to spend considerable time with a company that is unwilling to work with us on a product that is half developed.

I'm not trying to push MoTeC on anyone, as I don't make any money on selling the hardware, nor can I sell it, and my firmware is only available to Calvo Motorsports. I simply posted a thread about all of the things you gain with an EMS over the factory PCM. We're really happy with all of the improvements we've made with each car, and we're simply sharing our advancements. Maybe one day when HPT fully unlocks the entire PCM, we can try again and work around the other limiting factors.

[TrackAire]

Stock ECU's are tearing this forum apart.....

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

I just don't think a car that makes 1100hp, blows the tires off, switches lanes, has no knock control is worth it or fun. Steve's car on the factory 19" Pirellis drove straight as an arrow, and was a blast. I like to build quality fun cars and I just don't want to use the stock ECU on our builds.