4x4 Gurus, Advice on Lockers Please

[Vprbite]

So I have an 04 ram 1500. I use my 4x4 for what God and the engineers intended. I don't abuse it, but there is a reason I have to have a 4wd. I have never been stuck in this truck but I have used this truck. Crossed rivers getting to my favorite fishing/camping spot out in the boonies with water up to the headlights. Never been stuck. Was close once when I drove over what looked dry and turned out to be crusted over mud. That gummy, thick, terrible mud that your tires don't want to fling out. I had AT's at the time and it took all of my skill to rock it out and get her moving and back out. So after that, a winch went on the front, thus guaranteeing I have never seen terrible mud again. (That was the same trip we had to hit a mud hole where I watched my friends rear bumper go below the mud in front of me. It was our toughest drive out to our favorite, very very remote spot.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I have MUDs on there but haven't had a chance to put them to the test yet but that's not the issue. I plan on regearing. These MUDs aren't that much bigger than the tires I have been running since 04. Maybe an inch. But I figured it isn't a bad idea to get some oomph back. But I was considering adding a locker. If nothing else for peace of mind. I know I am saying I have never been stuck in this truck so you are probably thinking "why get one?" While others are wondering why I don't have one already. Truck has factory limited slip at the moment.

My question is, do I go Air Locker or Detroit Locker. I know the Detroit Locker is super strong but I am not worried about busting an air locker. Also,my truck is my DD and occasional tow rig (half ton truck so light duty towing). So street manners are definitely important.

So pros and cons as I see them are.


Detroit
Pros:
Detroit locker is super strong.
Super simple
Cheap. Much cheaper than an air locker.

Cons:
Tire wear.
Cachunk sound (not that big a deal to me)
I have heard on snowey roads or dirt roads at high speads they can be a pain in the ass.
I would imagine you could feel it on paved roads too at high speed when on the gas

Air Locker

Pros:
when it's off, it basically disappears.
No noise, no extra tire wear
I was going to install an air comoressor anyway
Obviously, I probably won't need to lock very often being that I have never been stuck and through some gnarly stuff. Though I could see myself locking and not going into 4wd until it really gets rough to save gas mileage for really long trips to the boonies. (I remember once this was an issue as my friend brought his land cruiser on 35s and I was worried I was gonna have to pull him out of there he was getting such crap mileage. he made it out but barely to the station on fumes. )

Cons:
Much more expensive
Weaker (but its not like they are made of glass and I am not dealing with a dedicated crawler here)
Already said, but worth mentioning again, much more expensive.


So what do y'all think? I am leaning toward an air locker. Unless I am way overstating the cons of the Detroit. As I am still healing from my wreck, I havent hit snow in a while but I am looking Forward to getting back to skiing again, so driving on snowy roads at high speeds will definitely come up on trips to colorado. And also, often times on fishing trips I will turn off the pavement and drive on 40 miles of fairly smooth, grated dirt roads before I hit the rough stuff where it's 4wd time. And if that's really obnoxious with a Detroit, that's not worth saving 5 to 600 bucks.

Your thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

[BlackSnake99]

I have f/r Detroits in my CJ-7. IMHO for a focused rock crawler there is no substitute but I would NOT want a mechanical rear locker on a vehicle that was driven on wet/snowy/icy roads. I might also suggest that you explore Ox lockers which are cable actuated. No air lines to leak. By the way the little ARB locker compressor is ALMOST as powerful as one of those little cigarette lighter compressors they sell at AutoZone (read worthless for just about anything).

For your application, ARB or Ox lockers hands down.


Gratuitous Jeep pic...

[ACRucrazy]

Sell the 1500 and buy a 2005+ 2500 Power Wagon They come with electronic lockers. sway bar disconnect, a warn 15,000 lb winch, skid plates and 4:56 gears from the factory.

[Vprbite]

I love the power wagon with the live axles, elec sway bar disconnect, etc. it's bad ass. As I said ina different forum, the power wagon makes me hard, the price tag takes me back to a wind sock kinda thing. Obviously not as bad on a used one. Yes I have thought about that. Hard for me to justify any new truck when the one I have is great, only has 94 or 96k on it, and only has a few places I gripe about improvement. Also, I'm still coming off of 1.3 million in medical bills so even with great insurance, I ended up blowing through a lot of money that would go toward stuff like that. So for peace of mind, I am living a little miser-esque until I refill the coffers.

By the way...anyone know why they do t offer the power wagon in a diesel? Intercooler in the way if the winch? Nope. Too expensive? Nope. It was because with the locking rear diff the torque on the diesel was breaking rear axles. Obviously you had to have a tire pretty seized up between two rocks or in absolutely evil sticky mud. But apparantly it was happening in testing. Also, I think the weight up front can be a drawback to hard core wheelers. But mostly it was the axle snapping. So bit of trivia for you there.

[Vprbite]

I have f/r Detroits in my CJ-7. IMHO for a focused rock crawler there is no substitute but I would NOT want a mechanical rear locker on a vehicle that was driven on wet/snowy/icy roads. I might also suggest that you explore Ox lockers which are cable actuated. No air lines to leak. By the way the little ARB locker compressor is ALMOST as powerful as one of those little cigarette lighter compressors they sell at AutoZone (read worthless for just about anything).

For your application, ARB or Ox lockers hands down.


Gratuitous Jeep pic...

Thanks for the input, guys. I have some follow up thoughts and questions if you don't mind helping me a bit more.

I had planned on putting a respectable comoressor in. Tankless. But with a pretty high duty cycle. Enough to air up the 35s in halfway respectable time or any buddyies tires that needed airing. So I understand what you are saying about the included compressor being not not very strong but that's an easy fix that was already on the docket. And I was thinking the non-Detroit solution was probably best for me but I wanted to ask some opinions first.

What's an Ox locker and they make one for a dodge? ******EDIT --Looks like they do make one for my axle. Now just gotta learn more about it.*******I like the idea of cables over air when possible. Call me old school if you must. What's your experience with them in terms of toughness and functionality? Apparantly their air system has a mechanical backup where you can still lock it in the event of a compressor or air tube failure.

What's a detroit locker like on snowy roads anyway? People just seem to say it's bad but I can't get a description. Though I don't need anything that rips through tires any sooner than happens anyway. You know how brutally expensive they are.

[BlackSnake99]

Thanks for the input, guys. I have some follow up thoughts and questions if you don't mind helping me a bit more.

I had planned on putting a respectable comoressor in. Tankless. But with a pretty high duty cycle. Enough to air up the 35s in halfway respectable time or any buddyies tires that needed airing. So I understand what you are saying about the included compressor being not not very strong but that's an easy fix that was already on the docket. And I was thinking the non-Detroit solution was probably best for me but I wanted to ask some opinions first.

What's an Ox locker and they make one for a dodge? ******EDIT --Looks like they do make one for my axle. Now just gotta learn more about it.*******I like the idea of cables over air when possible. Call me old school if you must. What's your experience with them in terms of toughness and functionality? Apparantly their air system has a mechanical backup where you can still lock it in the event of a compressor or air tube failure.

What's a detroit locker like on snowy roads anyway? People just seem to say it's bad but I can't get a description. Though I don't need anything that rips through tires any sooner than happens anyway. You know how brutally expensive they are.

Ox lockers have a very good reputation in terms of toughness and I would prefer a mechanical linkage over air any day.

I have a converted York a/c compressor as an air source and my front and rear bumpers are used as air tanks. Filling up 35's is no sweat and I can run air tools all day. I'm not sure what is available as far as an electric compressor but you would be better off with a tank of some sort. Powertanks are also a viable alternative. http://powertank.com/

As far as a Detroit on a snowy road, think about both rear wheels turning at the same rate of speed in a slick corner. Oversteer is no fun in a short wheelbase Jeep nor in a pick up with no weight in the rear.

[Vprbite]

Looking up the Ox. Looks like a pretty cool option. Thanks for the recommendation!

I Was looking at their setups. Their pneumatics have a mechanical backup in case the air system fails. That's pretty cool. I am one of the last trucks to still have a 4x4 lever. I hate that new ones are all dash switches. I have seen switches take a shit on me or someone I know a number of times. Weakest link issue. And I don't think a lever would look out of place in my truck. It's an automatic too so the transfer case is there on the floor but no shifter, so there should be room there. Or perhaps next to seat (left side) on the floor there. But if at all possible, I would do it on the floor next to the transfer case.

Now, there is another option in all of this. After regearing to 4.10 gears...just do nothing. I mean, I have done fine with the Limited Slip thus far, obviously.

But I suppose having the locker is like learning more languages, you will never be upset that you did it. Plus, when unengaged, it won't affect the way the limited slip functions around town or when in 4wd, right? It will just be the same as it is now, with the option to fully and completely lock when the trails get nasty or muddy, correct?

Thanks for all your input.


As far as air tanks, it seems there are plenty of comoressor options that work fine without a tank and I don't have to find a place to mount it. There are even compressors with 100% duty cycle.

[BlackSnake99]

Looking up the Ox. Looks like a pretty cool option. Thanks for the recommendation!

I Was looking at their setups. Their pneumatics have a mechanical backup in case the air system fails. That's pretty cool. I am one of the last trucks to still have a 4x4 lever. I hate that new ones are all dash switches. I have seen switches take a shit on me or someone I know a number of times. Weakest link issue. And I don't think a lever would look out of place in my truck. It's an automatic too so the transfer case is there on the floor but no shifter, so there should be room there. Or perhaps next to seat (left side) on the floor there. But if at all possible, I would do it on the floor next to the transfer case.

Now, there is another option in all of this. After regearing to 4.10 gears...just do nothing. I mean, I have done fine with the Limited Slip thus far, obviously.

But I suppose having the locker is like learning more languages, you will never be upset that you did it. Plus, when unengaged, it won't affect the way the limited slip functions around town or when in 4wd, right? It will just be the same as it is now, with the option to fully and completely lock when the trails get nasty or muddy, correct?

Thanks for all your input.


As far as air tanks, it seems there are plenty of comoressor options that work fine without a tank and I don't have to find a place to mount it. There are even compressors with 100% duty cycle.

Cool. You know way more than me about electric compressors. Never looked into them.

I will tell you that if someone gave me a stock Jeep and let me have one mod to make it more capable, it would be lockers. I could take an otherwise stock Jeep that's locked f/r and take it over stuff that a lofted Jeep with 35s with open diffs couldn't handle. It makes a huge difference in capability. I made it over that car literally without spinning a wheel once.

[Vprbite]

Gotcha. But also with this option, if I pop it in 4wd I still have my limited slip just as before, correct? When unengaged, it's just like I had never installed it, right?

[BlackSnake99]

Gotcha. But also with this option, if I pop it in 4wd I still have my limited slip just as before, correct? When unengaged, it's just like I had never installed it, right?

I don't know for sure, but my bet is that when not engaged it is an open diff.

[darbgnik]

Some lockers (electric) revert to open diffs when unlocked, some revert to limited slip, depends on the diff. I have front n rear Eaton elockers in my Hummer, simply the best money you can spend when you actually use your truck like the commercials.

Auburn sells the cheapest electric lockers IIRC, and they are limited slip when unlocked, but not made for your truck. You'll have to research whether the Ox is an open diff when unlocked, I don't know.

I would stay away from the ARB, or any air locker if it were me, too many things to go wrong. A simple electric locker has a switch and a wire, that's it. The Ox has a pull cable, that's it. Air lockers have a switch, a compressor, and air lines to turn brittle, break, and leak..........


But if most of your driving is in Arizona, a Detroit would be fine.