Which headers?

[mjorgensen]

I was being sarcastic, I liked and have heard most of the information, I agree with it, BUT like me you have every right to do what's best for you and I will not tell anyone any different if they chose a different path.

The word I used was "retard," but I know I am not supposed to say that now days.....but yeah, that guy is nuts. "Imagine having to replace a $1500.00+ set of headers after each race weekend!"

I look at it this way. If the headers are damaged in the next 5 or 10 years, I really do not give a damn. I will buy some more. I want the clutch to be bulletproof today while I am driving and racing the car. In the grand scheme of things, as a consumable, headers are not any more expensive than tires.

[Voice of Reason]

The 5 into 1 merge collector of the ARH makes a lot more design sense to me than Belanger's tri Y design. This is especially true when I look at Belangers and ask myself why are the Y pipes the same diameter when one is receiving primaries from 2 cylinders and the other receiving 3? Shouldn't the side with 3 be bigger? And the "pickle" baffles me as well, no other headers have this that I've ever seen. Now ARH isn't without some issues, I've fought some gasket sealing issues between the upper and lower header, but I'm hopeful that I now have that behind me.

Truth be told if you aren't modding beyond exhaust and a tune then Jonb's high flow cat replacement pipes seem like the way to go:
1) similar HP gains
2) less chance of burning O2 wires
3) 4x cheaper than the header options
4) easier installation
5) virtually no chance of problem leaks

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

When we visited Arrow Racing Engines back in May, the stock Viper manifolds glowed red hot too. Don't know what they are made out of though.. just sayin.

I don't know if an exhaust that wont get red hot on WOT. Even my Titanium exhaust on my cbr1000rr got glowy on the dyno.

Dual-Wall Stainless on OE. Street-driven, drag-raced headers do NOT stay at WOT as on the dyno, or on a 40-minute++ race event. Street car and drag-racer RPMs stay at WOT for only a few seconds at a time, while Race Cars are at WOT or on the way too WOT about 60% of the time. Can be HOURS!

You can coat either metal, but Coated Stainless still runs hotter than Coated Alumanized steel.

I do remember MANY Belanger Header customers not even re-using their factory heat shields, wanting to 'display' the headers. Hitemp wires/boots a must, and insulating against heat on ANY system, OE too, is recommended on frequently-tracked cars.

As for the Belanger velocity-cone / pickle: Same reason as a jet engine burning can: CFM thru a cylinder is greater if the intake travels the wider, larger path thru the can. You see a Pickle in the "collector" of every jet airliner in service. Why is that 'blockage' there?!? Better CFM flow results. ps if you have a Forced-Air intake you dont need the pickle, and can delete it in production.

[TCurtner]

Where can i get my headers, hiflocats and corsa exhaust, and my controller installed, and setup for my car? (closest to East TN)
What should i expect to cough up to get it done?

[Stealth78]

I know this is an old thread but..... I have to say reading this thread is mildly discouraging... I really want to squeeze some more HP out of mu GenIV this year and was thinking ARH, hi-flo's, and possibly a Corsa back section. For a car that is primarily street driven what would one with experience suggest? Could I get away with coating the headers? What are my options on coatings? I do know when I had B&B headers (SS non coated) on one of my SRT Rams I felt like I had to change my clutch fluid constantly, I even upgraded to DOT 4 and still didn't see much improvement. Thanks in advance!

[06SRTCoupe]

I know this is an old thread but..... I have to say reading this thread is mildly discouraging... I really want to squeeze some more HP out of mu GenIV this year and was thinking ARH, hi-flo's, and possibly a Corsa back section. For a car that is primarily street driven what would one with experience suggest? Could I get away with coating the headers? What are my options on coatings? I do know when I had B&B headers (SS non coated) on one of my SRT Rams I felt like I had to change my clutch fluid constantly, I even upgraded to DOT 4 and still didn't see much improvement. Thanks in advance!

Greetings Stealth. I have a Gen III coupe, M&M headers, high flow cats, and a corsa catback. So, pretty close to the setup you are thinking about. I also have a K&N CAI and a BBK throttle body. This is it for mods (besides an SCT tune from A&C). I didn't wrap my headers, I didn't have any special coating put on (they come coated). I did two things. One, I left the stock heat shields on the car. Now, at least for the M&M's, this took some re-molding of the shields while re-installing them. To put it more bluntly, I had to force them to fit around the M&M headers. However, I finally got them to and was able to bolt them back up. The only other thing I did was wrap a couple wires and the O2 sensor wires with some good DEI reflective tape...which took about 15 minutes to do.

I have never had anything boil or wiring burn up. I have gone on many aggressive cruises in 100+ degree heat at 4000+ feet, through the mountains, and the clutch has always performed great (stock clutch with Dot 4 fluid...not even high temp fluid). I have never had any issue sitting in stop or go traffic either or any high speed runs. Never had a problem at the track (1/4 mile drag strip) either but didn't really go there that much and only had a few runs each time I was there.

Now, this is my personal experience. From what I have read, I think one of the big issues with controlling heat is (at least for Gen III and IV cars) the heat shields. They really do a fantastic job of keeping the heat away from things...especially the clutch fluid line. I know it doesn't look as good as having those beautiful headers on display at the car shows, but I personally could care less about that.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do and I hope this helps!

[SNKEBIT]

greetings stealth. I have a gen iii coupe, m&m headers, high flow cats, and a corsa catback. So, pretty close to the setup you are thinking about. I also have a k&n cai and a bbk throttle body. This is it for mods (besides an sct tune from a&c). I didn't wrap my headers, i didn't have any special coating put on (they come coated). I did two things. One, i left the stock heat shields on the car. Now, at least for the m&m's, this took some re-molding of the shields while re-installing them. To put it more bluntly, i had to force them to fit around the m&m headers. However, i finally got them to and was able to bolt them back up. The only other thing i did was wrap a couple wires and the o2 sensor wires with some good dei reflective tape...which took about 15 minutes to do.

I have never had anything boil or wiring burn up. I have gone on many aggressive cruises in 100+ degree heat at 4000+ feet, through the mountains, and the clutch has always performed great (stock clutch with dot 4 fluid...not even high temp fluid). I have never had any issue sitting in stop or go traffic either or any high speed runs. Never had a problem at the track (1/4 mile drag strip) either but didn't really go there that much and only had a few runs each time i was there.

Now, this is my personal experience. From what i have read, i think one of the big issues with controlling heat is (at least for gen iii and iv cars) the heat shields. They really do a fantastic job of keeping the heat away from things...especially the clutch fluid line. I know it doesn't look as good as having those beautiful headers on display at the car shows, but i personally could care less about that.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do and i hope this helps!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Stealth78]

Thank you very much, this does help! I have read that about the heat shields before, but I've only heard it about the GenIII. Do the GenIV shields manipulate as easily?

[06SRTCoupe]

Not sure on the Gen IV shields but I'm going to assume they are the same as the Gen III shields.

[SNKEBIT]

Gen 4 doesn't have any shields. Have to make your own or I think one of the businesses here makes them. Don't remember which biz.

[chicagopd50]

I have heat shield on my stock headers and have cat deletes and also got rid of the crossover piping.. 100% difference in heat issues.. the car runs cool even in 90 degrees weather

[Stealth78]

Gen 4 doesn't have any shields. Have to make your own or I think one of the businesses here makes them. Don't remember which biz.

Haha! What a dipshit I am... Confirmed, just went out in the garage and took a look, definitely no shields. So this brings my next question. It looks as if the factory manifolds/headers are stainless steel (I think), so if I'm going to a more free flowing exhaust why would I suddenly have heat issues affecting other components?? I can totally understand it on the GenIII when removing the shields but now that I opened my eyes and took a better look at whats there from the factory I'm not understanding how this could create a problem. Are the factory GenIV headers double layered?

[Steve M]

Haha! What a dipshit I am... Confirmed, just went out in the garage and took a look, definitely no shields. So this brings my next question. It looks as if the factory manifolds/headers are stainless steel (I think), so if I'm going to a more free flowing exhaust why would I suddenly have heat issues affecting other components?? I can totally understand it on the GenIII when removing the shields but now that I opened my eyes and took a better look at whats there from the factory I'm not understanding how this could create a problem. Are the factory GenIV headers double layered?

The factory manifolds are double walled.

[Stealth78]

The factory manifolds are double walled.

Wow I'm half smart... Just screwed up the terminology!

[06SRTCoupe]

Stealth, I bet you could just buy some Gen 3 heat shields and muscle them in just like I did. You'd also have to buy 6 Gen 3 header bolts that have the extra shaft to allow the heat shields to be secured down with nuts. I could snap a photo of mine if you'd like.

[SNKEBIT]

Stealth, I bet you could just buy some Gen 3 heat shields and muscle them in just like I did. You'd also have to buy 6 Gen 3 header bolts that have the extra shaft to allow the heat shields to be secured down with nuts. I could snap a photo of mine if you'd like.

Won't work. The gen 4 has a different stagger to the bolts. They are more "central" to the port.

[Redx]

Won't work. The gen 4 has a different stagger to the bolts. They are more "central" to the port.

Hey SNKEBIT, did you ever put big 1 7/8 inch primary Tri Y headers and 3 1/2 in catback with removable cat pipes into production? If so were the results positive? Or are these more suited for a heads/cam car?

I run your 1 3/4" and put down 590RWHP/580TQ on a dynojet trapping 129MPH, bolts ons arrow tune, etc, just wondering if worth upgrading.

[06SRTCoupe]

Oh ok. Well he could still put the shields on. Bolting them down doesn't really matter anyway.

[SNKEBIT]

Hey SNKEBIT, did you ever put big 1 7/8 inch primary Tri Y headers and 3 1/2 in catback with removable cat pipes into production? If so were the results positive? Or are these more suited for a heads/cam car?

I run your 1 3/4" and put down 590RWHP/580TQ on a dynojet trapping 129MPH, bolts ons arrow tune, etc, just wondering if worth upgrading.

Only benefits a BIG H/C build or S-C.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh ok. Well he could still put the shields on. Bolting them down doesn't really matter anyway.

Yup, they would still keep heat contained.

[Stealth78]

I honestly can't remember what my 06 coupe shields looked like but I just looked at the SRT Ram that I still have (this one's stock) and I do not see how those shields would be able to transfer onto my GenIV especially with headers installed, are the shields from the car to the truck different on the GenIII's? Has anyone tried just running headers that have been coated while wrapping all other sensitive components with success?

[Redx]

Just run a set of ceramic coated headers, run dei wrap over your clutch line and wires, no issues so far and car is driven hard. Just make sure to put your engine mount heat shields the correct direction or you could melt them.

[Stealth78]

Just run a set of ceramic coated headers, run dei wrap over your clutch line and wires, no issues so far and car is driven hard. Just make sure to put your engine mount heat shields the correct direction or you could melt them.

What are my best options for coatings on ARH headers? What do you mean "engine mount heat shields"?

[Stealth78]

Also, should I have them coated if I have to wrap them? I swear I never thought trying to figure out an exhaust setup could be so unmotivating...

[parabs]

Anyone have thoughts on the Calvo manifold mittens?? I have been curious about them since I first read about them.

[robviper]

Would be much appreciated to see some pictures of a couple header set-ups. Heat shield...no heat shield. I'm most likely doing them too.