width of front tires causing darting or wondering front end

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10-29-2019
ViperGTS14

width of front tires causing tramlining, darting or wondering front end

Hi guys would like to discuss if its just the norm for our Vipers to tramlining a lot. I know this has been mentioned numerous times on different threads but not directly talked about for solutions or options. As we all know these Vipers have some of the nastiest size front and rear wheels/tires on them to the point the could negatively effect average daily driving on uneven street roads. So is that the reason we get massive unwanted wondering at higher speeds or is it alignment from factory causing this, maybe tire pressure? Going to lower all of the tires from 34 to 29psi and see if that helps but would be surprised if that makes much of a difference. P.s. I'm not a track guy, I care more about going straight and riding smooth that taking corners.
10-29-2019
MISSEDSHIFT09

I've driven to work after a weekend at the track without changing my setup (Toyo R888R's, 345/315's, cold tire pressure 24 psi). It's 46 miles, half of which are tire rutted back country roads and it's a full time job keeping the old TA2 straight. TONS of darting. All part of the fun of owning a Viper! You know you're lucky enough to be driving a race car on the street. But to the point, reducing camber/tow would help, although assuming you're in a GTS, it's the least aggresive of all the Gen V's.
10-29-2019
Arizona Vipers

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperGTS14

Hi guys would like to discuss if its just the norm for our Vipers to tramlining a lot. I know this has been mentioned numerous times on different threads but not directly talked about for solutions or options. As we all know these Vipers have some of the nastiest size front and rear wheels/tires on them to the point the could negatively effect average daily driving on uneven street roads. So is that the reason we get massive unwanted wondering at higher speeds or is it alignment from factory causing this, maybe tire pressure? Going to lower all of the tires from 34 to 29psi and see if that helps but would be surprised if that makes much of a difference. P.s. I'm not a track guy, I care more about going straight and riding smooth that taking corners.

What tires are doing this to you?
10-30-2019
Darius

The stickier the tires the more they will grab the grooves. I've never had a problem with P Zero's. Stock tires a little, hoosiers more so. If you don't want it darting get a grocery getter alignment and 300 tread wear tires.
10-30-2019
ViperGTS14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers

What tires are doing this to you?

Believe they are the original Pirelli P zeros going by the manufacture date.
10-30-2019
ViperGeorge

IMO your car should not be darty. I have three Vipers an 08, a 14, and a 17. None of them dart. I am running Pzeros on the 14, PS2s on the 08 (yea they are old), and on the 17 I am running PS2s in the front and PSSs in the rear. I would check your alignment. Castor in particular. My cars are very stable on the road.
10-30-2019
ViperGTS14

Thanks guys, I totally agree. Its to the point its very scary over 100 mph. What does everyone run their front tires PSI when cold?
10-30-2019
Bill Pemberton

Keep the tires at 29 -30 lbs. but also you are not stating much about the road conditions either. Are you on fairly rutted roads as this can be an issue with many cars with wide tires. The solution there is simply trying to stay out of the ruts, but tires alone will not solve that concern. We sell a wide range of vehicles at Woodhouse Auto Family, and this is not just confined to Vipers, as we see it with various Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros, Porsches, Alfas and many others. Often tied to the super sticky tires , but just as common folks , when asked , do comment that they drive on some fairly horrible roads, so always good to ask that.
10-30-2019
ViperGTS14

Yes road that are not favoreable are much worse, but even at higher speeds it seems like it wants to wonder.
10-30-2019
ACR-ISH

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperGTS14

Thanks guys, I totally agree. Its to the point its very scary over 100 mph. What does everyone run their front tires PSI when cold?

Check all ball joints. Sounds like you have some worn items. This will definitely affect the "darting" you are feeling. Jack up the car so the front of the car so the wheels are off the groud. Lock the wheel. Grab top and bottom of wheel and try to wiggle it. If it moves much, worn wheel bearing or UCA/LCA ball joint bad. Grab front and rear of tire. Try to wiggle. This would be a sign of tie rod or steering rack issues.

Text me if you have questions. I run my tires around 27psi cold. Running them too high can cause similar issues... but I have a feeling it's in your suspension somewhere. Maybe even a worn shock.
10-30-2019
ViperGTS14

I was thinking something like that but at 9k miles I doubted it. Going to do multiple things in stages, going to lower tire pressure down and test. Then test toe (can do this at home in the garage). Lastly will jack car up and test ball joints. Only other things would be camber/caster as well as the tires themselves. BTW the tires up front and in the rear are wearing extremely even.
10-30-2019
Bill Pemberton

ACR-ish has a good suggestion and regardless of the miles those areas should be checked. Chuckholes, curb damage, misaligned even from the factory, all could contribute , but time to take it in for a check up , imho.
10-30-2019
ACR-ISH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pemberton

ACR-ish has a good suggestion and regardless of the miles those areas should be checked. Chuckholes, curb damage, misaligned even from the factory, all could contribute , but time to take it in for a check up , imho.

Agreed. I'd have it aligned. In CA we only warranty alignments for 1 month since the roads can be so bad. I aligned mine 4 times this year. First 3 times it tracked, or wheel was off, or the specs weren't correct. Sometimes the "Specs" are nowhere near where they should be from a performance stand point. Check your suspension items and align the cars, easiest and cheapest steps 1 and 2.
10-30-2019
viperBase1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperGTS14

Believe they are the original Pirelli P zeros going by the manufacture date.

They've probably hit that hard and crusty state.

I had some of the old Toyo R888's that were about that old (kind of worn) that tram-lined all over the place. It got to be very dangerous.

Switched to Nitto Invo's (mostly out of desperate need and availability) and that fixed the tram-lining completely.

After driving new P-Zero's on the Porsche (came that way), I can see those fixing it too.
They feel as soft/smooth/quite as the Invo's.

Next time around I'll be looking hard at new Toyo R888r's or Michelin's.

ACR-ISH are you running Toyo R888r's?
10-30-2019
ACR-ISH

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperBase1

ACR-ISH are you running Toyo R888r's?

Yes I am. INCREDIBLE tires.
10-30-2019
ViperGTS14

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperBase1

They've probably hit that hard and crusty state.

I had some of the old Toyo R888's that were about that old (kind of worn) that tram-lined all over the place. It got to be very dangerous.

Switched to Nitto Invo's (mostly out of desperate need and availability) and that fixed the tram-lining completely.

After driving new P-Zero's on the Porsche (came that way), I can see those fixing it too.
They feel as soft/smooth/quite as the Invo's.

Next time around I'll be looking hard at new Toyo R888r's or Michelin's.

ACR-ISH are you running Toyo R888r's?

Just got back from lowering all the tires from 34 1/2 to 29 psi. Wow I can not believe 5 lb's make that much of a difference. I know there is still some walking which might be tires and alignment left to address, but damn tire pressure seriously made a huge difference already.
10-30-2019
JonB ~ PartsRack

Sorry Im late to the party.... high-winds took power out yesterday

MATCHED TIRE PRESSURES MATTER, as Bill P states, the sweet-spot for almost ALL Vipers is 29-30 psi Cold. Checked with a GOOD dial-gauge, not a $3 pocket-stick.......

ALIGNMENT MATTERS MOST... the OE alignment specs are for maximum gas miles and max tire wear. However, THAT MAKES TRAM-LINING WORSE! Get a moderate-performance alingnemnt, based around some minimum negative camber up front. It Matters a lot.

When you get your car corner-weighted-aligned, you can drive it with 1 thumb and 2 fingers.....
10-30-2019
ACR-ISH

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack

When you get your car corner-weighted-aligned, you can drive it with 1 thumb and 2 fingers.....

LOL. Love it.
10-30-2019
Whitey

I had the same issue. Changes to tire pressure and OE alignment did not help. The issue was corrected when I went with Toyo 888R's and DSC Tractive suspension.
10-30-2019
Arizona Vipers

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperGTS14

Believe they are the original Pirelli P zeros going by the manufacture date.

What are the dates? If you have a 2014 they could be over 6 years old. I won't drive a car with 6 year old tires.
10-31-2019
Special Ed

It's a toe in issue, not front but rear toe in. 1/4 to 1/2 degree of toe in over the factory spec. You don't need to worry about excessive rear tire wear as you will stillneed front before you wear out the rears. Gone will be the death grip on the wheel while driving.
10-31-2019
ViperGTS14

Just wanted to say thank you to all that have reached out to me with concern and help. This really does shows how awesome our small communicate really is.

Believe the issue isn't the alignment since I've got some experience with testing this by doing alignments on a lot of my own cars including a recent foxbody 03 cobra irs swap we did in my own shop. When i brought them the car to check they stated I did very well to the point they really didn't need to adjust anything lol. Regardless, today I did some measurements with toe and camber. There is a little toe (need to measure rears, as well as 1.5 neg on front and rear tires. This seems fine to me. But from the look and feel of these 6 year old concrete block which I can call tires, have honestly seen better days, they are hard and I mean rock hard. Need to hit up Jon B again for tires. lol
10-31-2019
sadil

Car definitely darts on regular roads. It’s kinda sketchy during the wet. Same car was straigth as an arrow on the track all the way to 140 mph.. Same tires.
10-31-2019
cashcorn

I had the same problem. Probably just dated/hard stock tires. Mine got hard after about 2 yrs, 3k miles(shitty tires) I went with Toyo's. These tires hook!! also upgraded to 315's up front, Badass! they are also very good cold. I't takes maybe a good 5 miles until operating temps. I have a 14 srt base suspension, upgraded calipers/brakes. thanks, Greg
10-31-2019
Mark1107

I just put my Jon B rears on today, and the tire place demanded I have the pressures set at 34 and I got the darting too. In the morning I will check it with my electronic monitor and reset them to 29 cold.
11-01-2019
JonB ~ PartsRack

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperGTS14

But from the look and feel of these 6 year old concrete block which I can call tires, have honestly seen better days, they are hard and I mean rock hard. Need to hit up Jon B again for tires. lol

We Gottem!

Thanks JonB@PartsRack.com