Viper production coming to an end in August of 2017!!!???

[Bruce]

Autoline is reporting this sad news/rumor, hope it is just rumor... :furious:


https://youtu.be/MTtBL7ZauYU?t=48

[Photog1]

No way!! The Viper must continue, why would they stop production of the most beautiful american car on the planet? Dodge needs a Halo car. They just need better marketing. We were on a cruise this past weekend and the cars generated lots of spectators everywhere we went. People asking questions about the car and loving them. People just need to know that the car exists and that is done with good marketing.
They also liked the stryker green the best. :)

[G37Sam]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised. The Gen V's aren't cheap to build.

In this part of the world, dealers struggled to sell most of them at cost. Many dealers had to get support from FCA to liquidate their stock, other dealers sold them at a loss just to get them out of the way. With earlier GTS's retailing at $150k these cars were def no going anywhere. I don't know what the situation is like in the US but at an MSRP of $85k I doubt FCA is making as much money per Viper as GM does with their Vettes.

Then you have all the $30k engines that had to be replaced in earlier models, that couldn't have been cheap either. From a business standpoint, I'm surprised it lasted this long.

[GBS]

I definitely hope it's not true.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Probably more fuel economy requirements than cost (or maybe cost of developong a new power plant). Instead of a supercharged V8 Viper there will be none (if the rumor is true).

[Viper vince]

I have to agree with G37Sam they have had many engine issues on the 2013 and the 2014 cars since they changed vendors. It comes down to dollars and cents and the numbers do'nt lie.

[smhog]

Well, the video states that Viper production at CAAP ends in 2017. Maybe they're moving. probably not.

Doesn't the EPA regs become tougher starting 2017?

[swexlin]

I think the Viper as we know it will end. I can see the Hellcat engine going into a new 2-seater, which will be a hot car, no doubt, but it will be a new car with new name.

[sparkrn]

If this rumor is not true, I hope FCA straightens it out. I'm looking at ordering a new viper right now and am hesitant to buy a $115,000 car that will have a dwindling base of owners (voa). I mostly only drive my car at club events, and with halting production that means a shrinking membership and events to attend. SAY IT ISNT TRUE

[Coloviper]

While it is possible, I am not sure I believe it. That entire video was negative on everything. The reporter there looks and sounds like he stepped off the set of Fargo.

In all seriousness, it makes absolutely zero sense. Stop production of 2017 model year in August. A final model year due to regs, if that is the case, they would build 2017s up to December 31st of 2017.

The Viper will end one day but that article based it on absolutely nothing. They made a point to talk about the vouchers so they know they are good to 2017. All speculation on their part with no facts. In reality, I hope it is not true. If it is, I hope prefix buys it all up and continues it as a reproduction model which bills have passed to allow companies to due below 500 units a year, with no EPA regs.

[redrichard]

Was still hoping for a Gen V convertible, with this I may consider a Medusa .

[ViperJon]

They have been saying this since 1993.

[ViperRT98]

The Viper is a love it or hate it car. It has a smaller following than other sports cars that people compare it to. Let us compare it to the 911 and the Corvette, which has a very strong and loyal following. The Corvette is like a girl who earned a BA in business. She is overall attractive and looks better than most. She is athletic and still have some curves and she can make your heart beat a little faster and give you some butterfly's. She is a person you like and one that you could marry. The 911 is more like a person who earned their MBA. She is smart and successful. She may not be as attractive as the Corvette (IMO) but she still turns heads. She can do everything the Corvette can do but it is just that she comes from a higher class family. She is the one your family wants you to marry but they will accept the corvette as well. I would have to say both are very attractive and both have great qualities but neither scream exotic. The Viper is kind of like the girl you always wanted but knew everyone would believe she just extremely high maintenance, she is perfect in every way but may not be the brightest person in the world. She may have earned her BA degree (barely) but no matter where she goes and what she wears she is a head turner.. She is the girl that walks by and you have to turn you head and get a second look. She is the one your family warns you about but she is the hottest girl you ever seen and her looks are so exotic she is 1 in a million. Once you have her you see all the hidden qualities and see her true heart. She is loving and caring she has everything you want but she is still a little spicy at times and you have to handle her with care.

We are different because we have something that a few people can have. We are disliked by other sports car owners and dreamers because we have a piece of history that is very limited that many of us dreamed about as kids. The Viper as come a long way. My Gen 2 may not have any cup holders and no storage but it does have it's own personality. The Viper is one of 2 American Supercars. One being a Ford and the other being the Viper. I would hate to see it go away again. I would also hate seeing the heart of the Viper going from a V10 to a V8 supercharged. If the Gen 5 is the end of the road for the Viper it will be a sad day. However I believe you are owning a car that will only increase in value and will pay you back for all the love and care you have given it.

[ViperTony]

Painful to watch the commentator in that video he was making facial expressions that seemed to indicate his hemorrhoids were bothering him.

[City]

If that number is actual, can you make a profit (both cash and "halo marketing revenue/benefits") from 700 annual sales? I was never aware sales were than low.

[Loud]

This rumor comes up every 2 months....

[Bill Pemberton]

Viper Tony,

Thanks for the only comment really illustrating the man's true plight. He obviously fits into your medical point of reference as he is a bit of a pain in the asp, literally. This rumor has been going on for well over a year and is likely more a question whether the Viper and it's monstrous V10 can meet the standards beyond 2017. Since this rumor is just that , a rumor , sure makes sense that it could be August of 2018 , after which the 2017 models would cease. But knowing Dodge, they could build through the end of the year. Of course , we have to all remember that in 2009 the car was going to be sold and rumors of it's death have been greatly exaggerated , so who knows what is really happening?? Folks rushed out in 2010 and bought Vipers with rumors it would never be sold again and some Dealers even pushed that , which was obviously unethical. In 2013 we get the new Viper and bingo those who went with the rumors were to some degree shocked. Could this happen , sure, but those of us acquainted with the car know that the rumors have been there various times over the years and we still have the Viper. Right now with the immense interest in the ACR and continuing orders on TAs and the one of one program the reality sure seems that Dodge is investing an awful lot of effort in a car it is getting rid of in a relatively short time --- now that should be the item that really makes you think !!??

[Schen]

John's a really nice guy, met him at the plant at the ACR reveal. Talked Vipers for at least an hour. FWIW, look what happened to the Ford GT. I wouldn't expect a similar fate, don't be surprised. The Gen V has accomplished quite a bit in a short amount of time despite all the gremlins.

--RS

[Bill Pemberton]

Heh, gotta have fun and John is okay , but Tony was joking on one thing that is somewhat true -- he often talks like he is in pain. Plus I am somewhat bored by the rumors as eventually one may end up being true, but literally they have gone on for over 10 years, so I am a bit jaded.

[Roddy]

Not surprised. One awesome car but low volume = limited profitability.

[BlknBlu]

Does that mean another end of the line event at CAAP, cause that was a blast.

Bruce

[Schen]

Heh, gotta have fun and John is okay , but Tony was joking on one thing that is somewhat true -- he often talks like he is in pain. Plus I am somewhat bored by the rumors as eventually one may end up being true, but literally they have gone on for over 10 years, so I am a bit jaded.

No doubt, I agree. It's instant click bait for sure and I know there's odds and ends, everyone gets ribbed once in a while right? So far Autoline is the only one to make the claim, it's when it spreads like wildfire it becomes annoying and then will be forced to put up with 'did you know Viper production is ending?' Questions. I hate that, but if it does happen I think I'll be a little less disappointed if it does. I think with the Gen IV it was kinda sudden.

--RS

[The_Greg]

His source is questionable at best. Our company also uses some industry forecasting packages that also say the Viper's days are limited, but that's just their educated guess. Unless multiple supplers or FCA themselves claim it, then I'm going to forget about these claims.

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree Greg, we started a rumor as a joke in 2013 and the next thing we know , almost verbatim it was listed on AllPar from an individual who said he got it from a strong source. We were the strong source, but somehow the sarcasm did not carry through , and AllPar jumped on it not even knowing we were the ones who made it up. With social media , anymore, so much stuff is presumed correct prior to any hard data and as I noted some of these rumors have been around for quite awhile , but like you mentioned it is an educated guess and many of the times it is just someone using a crystal ball forecast due to other circumstances - kind of like the Ford GT being a V6 Twin Turbo ,not a V8 and Ford spending tons of money pushing Ecoboost 6s and 4s and really not discussing the V8 much. With other manufacturers dropping V6s in their main models and going 4 cylinders , it is pretty rational for folks to ascertain that the automotive industry is going smaller to meet emission demands, fuel economy mandated standards, engine start up emissions, etc.

[ViperSmith]

It wouldn't surprise me if the power plant changes in the Viper. The 8.4L V10, as much as we love it, isn't long for this world and emission requirements are worse than ever before.

Dodge isn't going to throw away the Viper marquee to keep a few loyalists happy because it doesn't have a V10 in it anymore.

Smaller, high revving engine with electric assist like the hyper cars would be a killer combo.

[Bill Pemberton]

Whether right or not , the rumors are out due to all the handwriting on the wall with numerous manufacturers, but..................

1. Remember the Viper was supposed to die according to rumors in 2010
2. The Challenger was only supposed to go until 2014 , according to rumors
3. The SRT8 Jeep was to be cancelled this year...

Need I go on ,haha.

[FrgMstr]

I heard from a very good source that CAAP was closing in 2017 in order so that GM could start building the mid-engine Corvette there.

[Bill Pemberton]

Naw , they are changing the name to CAP and they are going to be manufacturing baseball caps for all the Major League Teams and Nascar.

[ddominator1]

looks like my TA will soon raise in value :)

[ViperTony]

Naw , they are changing the name to CAP and they are going to be manufacturing baseball caps for all the Major League Teams and Nascar.

I heard a rumor I was going to order an ACR soon. :)

[FrgMstr]

Naw , they are changing the name to CAP and they are going to be manufacturing baseball caps for all the Major League Teams and Nascar.

I have been duped again!

[Bill Pemberton]

Tony I like your kind of rumors, ha!

[Coloviper]

Bill;

That is the Corvette crowd, is that CAAP or AARP?


Naw , they are changing the name to CAP and they are going to be manufacturing baseball caps for all the Major League Teams and Nascar.

[Bill Pemberton]

Oh , now I understand the name is staying the same ......the letters just stand for something different.

Corvette Association of Aged Persons!

[viper_eddie]

I've seen this before and have asked but nobody responded. What do the new CAFE standards have to do with a car that Dodge makes less than 2k a year of (or whatever the number is) when they make millions of others?

Isn't the CAFE standard about the average for the manufacturer?

[Bill Pemberton]

Not sure what you want someone to answer you with , but if you are commenting on Manufacturers who complain about having to meet new standards , then yes I would agree this is a lame excuse or a skirting of the issue in my estimation by any Manufacturer who would say the demise of a certain model was due to CAFE requirements - if said model was a low volume vehicle.

[johniew398]

Not sure what you want someone to answer you with , but if you are commenting on Manufacturers who complain about having to meet new standards , then yes I would agree this is a lame excuse or a skirting of the issue in my estimation by any Manufacturer who would say the demise of a certain model was due to CAFE requirements - if said model was a low volume vehicle.

Well as we know the Viper's demise is nothing but rumor. Too bad people don't start rumors for good things.

Anyway Bill, I'm more than happy with the 2014 TA you sold me.

[Bill Pemberton]

Orange is the new Black , Johnie , ha. I have to admit I am still torn between the TAs and the ACRs --- both are great values today for track fanatics.

[v10enomous]

Is this because GM bought Chrysler a few weeks ago as I recall ?:)

[KPViper]

Is this because GM bought Chrysler a few weeks ago as I recall ?:)

Well you got the GM and recall right in this post! Two things that are always related.

[outnumbered]

If that number is actual, can you make a profit (both cash and "halo marketing revenue/benefits") from 700 annual sales? I was never aware sales were than low.

Ralph Giles made the comment at The Tail of the Dragon event that Dodge has never made a dollar off the Viper.

[Coloviper]

Well as we know the Viper's demise is nothing but rumor. Too bad people don't start rumors for good things.

I do believe the Viper is making very positive waves in the Automotive world. The ACR publicity is everywhere and even in non-car arenas. I also feel the 2017 25th Anniversary of Viper is going to be a major year for Viper. It is going to be a monster of a car. I don't think it is the end but if it is, Dodge will throw out such an "End Game" car, it will set the standard for others to measure against for a decade afterwards. I have to dig up that gravestone picture where it shows the Viper RIP on it with 1992 scratched off then 1993 below it scratched off and continuing to 2013. Needs to be updated every year but seems it is the car non-believers would like to see dead. It's because in today's pussified world, it should just not exist. The fact it does is what I absolutely love about it.

[sparkrn]

I heard a rumor I was going to order an ACR soon. :)

Just win one��

[Granger73]

By 2017 a Tesla vehicle will be the top dog. As all of you old time Slot Car guys know, the electric motor can also act as a brake, and tracking with a 4 wheel drive Tesla will be the ultimate track experience. Gonna happen!

[daytonprowler]

The ACR is a start to hopefully turning things around for Viper.

Maybe Chrysler is finally reading from the book of Elvis....

"A little less conversation, a little more action."

A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDkvwbQwtyo

[Nine Ball]

If the Viper does end in 2017, all I can say is those who waited just missed out. I've been enjoying every minute behind the wheel since I had the 2013.

[viper_eddie]

Not sure what you want someone to answer you with , but if you are commenting on Manufacturers who complain about having to meet new standards , then yes I would agree this is a lame excuse or a skirting of the issue in my estimation by any Manufacturer who would say the demise of a certain model was due to CAFE requirements - if said model was a low volume vehicle.

That's exactly what I was looking for. I don't believe the CAFE standards require enough so a manufacturer is required to stop producing a very low volume vehicle when they literally make over a million vehicles. It seems to me those high volume vehicles would more than cover for the fuel efficiency. But that was just my opinion and I wasn't sure if there's any truth to it.

[viper04]

Just saw this and was wondering if this it true any thoughts on this? Thanks.

http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2015/07/viper-near-end-of-life-29316

[Zybane]

Auto Forecast Solutions? :rolleyes:

[Coloviper]

Doesn't sound like a "Solutions" company. More doom and gloom generator.

[J TNT]

If your worried about it , then there hasn't been a better time to get one !
I can see these cars being iconic in 10 years from now. :)

[I Bin Therbefor]

It has been my opinion from day one that the key to Viper survival was to expand the buyer community to include the non-tradition Viper buyer. There just aren't enough traditional buyers including track oriented buyers to keep the Viper in production. To me that meant an AT option in all models and a convertible - the traditional boulevard cruiser. The ACR model should be included in the line up as the halo car, but the bread and butter revenue would come from the boulevard cruiser.

[sadil]

Anyone have decent production numbers for the viper line? 90's until 2014?

I think the problem with the Viper is that its disappearance will not effect Dodge. Unlike the Corvette, who's disappearance would cripple Chevrolet. This are the kinda things that would give management stupid ideas.....

[BlknBlu]

more to come

Bruce

[V1P3R]

why, why must you do that?

[timberwolf]

If your worried about it , then there hasn't been a better time to get one !
I can see these cars being iconic in 10 years from now. :)

Agreed. Only means our cars will be worth more, especially with such low production. To me, V10, 6 speed manual rear wheel drive sports cars are few and far between these days. Imagine 10 years from now.

[F2V]

Coincidentially, the 2017 rumor date is very close to the expiration of the $15k new Viper purchase coupon, announced in 2014. Anyway, if the rumor comes to pass, I'm sure it will bode well for Prefix, and the limited continuation of our classic Viper.

[Bill Pemberton]

A little over 30,000 cars have been built since 1992.

[XSnake]

I'm going to the FCA dealer conference next month in Vegas. I'll let the forum know what I hear on the topic.

[ViperDC]

Viper is alive and well. Just read the "article." LOL at claims the ACR isnt getting good media attention. The car has been all over the media.

[ViperSmith]

A little over 30,000 cars have been built since 1992.

Also known as less than the number of corvettes built in a single year :)

[Jack B]

It is though the article was written a year ago and just released

[kirkinsb]

A little over 30,000 cars have been built since 1992.

Bill, do you have any idea of those 30k....how many have been totaled and are no longer in existence? I have always wondered that. Maybe 3-5K???

[Bill Pemberton]

That would be a wild ass guess on my part , but we do know a lot of them have gone overseas over the years, and some were turned into race cars in the earlier years. I do know not as many were wrecked as so commonly posted on Forums.

[lochnessmonster]

Also known as less than the number of corvettes built in a single year :)

Exactly^^^^

My feeling is that the concept of "low production numbers", and "exclusivity", in a U.S. based car, causes automotive journalist's and the automotive public's heads to explode. It just doesn't compute. How could a car company possibly be satisfied selling a limited number of hand crafted, high performance, rear drive, V10 gas guzzling, manual transmission cars????? Surely the car must be going extinct. Uh, no, that's exactly what Dodge envisioned in 1988-1992, and that is exactly what Ralph and the SRT team have ensured over the years. Thank you Dodge for "thinking out of the box" and providing us with a very special automobile and ownership experience. What a crazy concept.........................

[serpent]

There are a lot of factors for doom gloom. Imo, it has to do with not going more extreme. The viper has always been known to be extreme. That ended when these cars only put out 640HP. Now its trumped by a heat soaking C7Z. It also doesnt have the most HP, yes it is all marketing BS, but numbers help sell cars.

Not sure why they have not designed a convertible for the V, that and putting a DCT in the ACR only. Btw, I'm not a fan of either! But what ever the ACR achieves today or on the near future I dont think will stand too long since technology is catching up at a pretty significant pace.


I'm still a fan and will always be. I just hope there is a Gen VI, that way I can purchase a low mile garage queen some of you post more about rather than driving!!!
:drive:

[lochnessmonster]

Anyone have decent production numbers for the viper line? 90's until 2014?

I think the problem with the Viper is that its disappearance will not effect Dodge. Unlike the Corvette, who's disappearance would cripple Chevrolet. This are the kinda things that would give management stupid ideas.....

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/dodge-viper-sales-figures.html

[ViperDC]

There are a lot of factors for doom gloom. Imo, it has to do with not going more extreme. The viper has always been known to be extreme. That ended when these cars only put out 640HP. Now its trumped by a heat soaking C7Z. It also doesnt have the most HP, yes it is all marketing BS, but numbers help sell cars.

"Trumped?" The Z06 has 5 more HP.

[VYPR BYT]

Viper is alive and well. Just read the "article." LOL at claims the ACR isnt getting good media attention. The car has been all over the media.


It is though the article was written a year ago and just released
I thought the same thing when I read that.

[ViperDC]

While it is possible, I am not sure I believe it. That entire video was negative on everything. The reporter there looks and sounds like he stepped off the set of Fargo.


LOL!

I wouldn't lend much credence to this report. Everything I've seen would indicate the opposite of production ending. (Plant investments, new ACR that is a hit, etc.)

[Viper Girl]

Merging to older thread

[ViperSmith]

I said in the other thread - I think the V10 Viper is kaput, but we'll see it reincarnated as something wicked again for Gen6. The Viper brand isn't going away.

As long as dodge is swimming in cash, they'll prop up low sales numbers. So, pray it keeps that way.

[Viper Girl]

Coincidentially, the 2017 rumor date is very close to the expiration of the $15k new Viper purchase coupon
Exactly what I was thinking... I have a coupon till 2018... Surely there will be a 2018 model to use it on... LOL

[ViperDC]

Exactly what I was thinking... I have a coupon till 2018... Surely there will be a 2018 model to use it on... LOL

I think the current gen will run through 2018. At that point it will be due for a redesign so it'll be interesting to see what happens with it.

[viperman4125]

Very true, But that was BEFORE Fiat took over- it's a done deal, you will see, hate to see it, but Sergio will let it go,- He Has 3 cars in Italy he owns, Ferrari, Maserati, & Alfa Remo, he could care LESS about the viper, && he is out to cut $$$ so he can Merge w/ others.!! Boo hoo
Whether right or not , the rumors are out due to all the handwriting on the wall with numerous manufacturers, but..................

1. Remember the Viper was supposed to die according to rumors in 2010
2. The Challenger was only supposed to go until 2014 , according to rumors
3. The SRT8 Jeep was to be cancelled this year...

Need I go on ,haha.

[BlknBlu]

I am sure there is a GOVT mandate in 2017 that may not work for the Viper. The car has never been about sales.

Bruce

[lochnessmonster]

I heard a rumor that the world was supposed to end in 2012. What ended up happening with that?

[ViperTony]

I heard a rumor that the world was supposed to end in 2012. What ended up happening with that?

Obama was re-elected and the world began ending.

[lochnessmonster]

Obama was re-elected and the world began ending.

Trump to the rescue?

[serpent]

"Trumped?" The Z06 has 5 more HP.
This is a viper we are talking about. So it's 2006 all over again where the corvette does better in the performance tests? I could give two shits about a corvette but the numbers are there. Even if the car heatsoaks, it is still selling.

Perhaps we will see the HP bump and a drastic change for 2016, but I don't see this production with no major changes drag out to 2018.

[ViperDC]

This is a viper we are talking about. So it's 2006 all over again where the corvette does better in the performance tests? I could give two shits about a corvette but the numbers are there.

The Corvette does better in performance tests?

Wrong.

The "drastic change" you're looking for is called the ACR - AKA the new sheriff in town.

[lochnessmonster]

The Corvette does better in performance tests?

Wrong.

The "drastic change" you're looking for is called the ACR - AKA the new sheriff in town.

This^^^^^ I am just dying to see a head to head..................can you say blood bath Viper style?

[BLUEVIPER]

...you just have to look at the overall trend in super cars...turbos and superchargers..to extrapolate what comes next in the Viper. My guess is an engine something along the lines of the Hellcat
Do I think the Viper is going away...absolutely no way...unless the corvette goes way!!!!
The reality is...although the manufacturers have done a lot to get more horse power every year while still trying to up MPG...there gets to a point of
diminishing returns (Plan B).
This means smaller displacement and turbos and superchargers (Plan B)...
in reality it is just a farce....if these forced induction cars were driven like an old lady..ya the MPG will be higher...but if I (or I assume most of the Viper nation) drives like a Viper is meant to be driven...or how we like to drive...the MPG will be not bettter....it may be even worse...

LONG LIVE AMERICAN IRON (DISPLACEMENT)!!!

[donk_316]

Remember that the Viper 8.4L V10 was designed with forced induction in mind...

Slap the "sledgehammer" forced induction package on and it's a 900hp monster, not a 645hp monster!

[kdaviper]

Just saw this and was wondering if this it true any thoughts on this? Thanks.

http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2015/07/viper-near-end-of-life-29316

Notice the "?" in the title? This suggests that the article is based on rumors. The same rumors which the autoline video covered.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Now that Ferrari is going IPO, how about FCA giving Ferrari the rights to the Viper. Ferrari then would introduce a "Viper by Ferrari"; the present car further developed (9 to 10 ltrs V-10) and built at a Prefix operated facility in the USA. Sell through Ferrari dealers and VERY selected Dodge dealers. That gives the "Viper by Ferrari" an AT from Ferrari, a convertible from Prefix, and a GT and a track car from the existing Viper line. Naturally a full race program.

[mikesax]

I can't predict the future-but there is no HAPPIER car guy on the planet than me right now!! My 2 Vipers are HANDS DOWN the most amazing vehicles on the road-there isn't car out there that I would trade either of them for-except maybe another Viper!! Should the powers that be decide to "kill it"-I will make sure I have a 3rd tucked away to use in 2018 and beyond!! I drove home next to a 2015 corvette tonight-I followed him for a few miles and I'm sorry-the ass of that car is hideous!!!!! The Viper is in "no mans land" when it comes to cutting edge technology-it is most definitely a UNIQUE BRUTE-an exclusive throwback-the kind of car that is NOT for the "androgynous" type of person that seems to dominate our world!! My wish is that "just enough REAL driving enthusiasts" purchase it for FCA to continue to develop it - the Viper is IMO the most fun one can have on 4 wheels-WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!

[lochnessmonster]

I can't predict the future-but there is no HAPPIER car guy on the planet than me right now!! My 2 Vipers are HANDS DOWN the most amazing vehicles on the road-there isn't car out there that I would trade either of them for-except maybe another Viper!! Should the powers that be decide to "kill it"-I will make sure I have a 3rd tucked away to use in 2018 and beyond!! I drove home next to a 2015 corvette tonight-I followed him for a few miles and I'm sorry-the ass of that car is hideous!!!!! The Viper is in "no mans land" when it comes to cutting edge technology-it is most definitely a UNIQUE BRUTE-an exclusive throwback-the kind of car that is NOT for the "androgynous" type of person that seems to dominate our world!! My wish is that "just enough REAL driving enthusiasts" purchase it for FCA to continue to develop it - the Viper is IMO the most fun one can have on 4 wheels-WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!
I have a term for it: "Transformer Ass". Now that's not attractive.

[viperman4125]

What planet are you from ?? UOTE=I Bin Therbefor;153118]Now that Ferrari is going IPO, how about FCA giving Ferrari the rights to the Viper. Ferrari then would introduce a "Viper by Ferrari"; the present car further developed (9 to 10 ltrs V-10) and built at a Prefix operated facility in the USA. Sell through Ferrari dealers and VERY selected Dodge dealers. That gives the "Viper by Ferrari" an AT from Ferrari, a convertible from Prefix, and a GT and a track car from the existing Viper line. Naturally a full race program.[/QUOTE]

[viper_eddie]

Now that Ferrari is going IPO, how about FCA giving Ferrari the rights to the Viper. Ferrari then would introduce a "Viper by Ferrari"; the present car further developed (9 to 10 ltrs V-10) and built at a Prefix operated facility in the USA. Sell through Ferrari dealers and VERY selected Dodge dealers. That gives the "Viper by Ferrari" an AT from Ferrari, a convertible from Prefix, and a GT and a track car from the existing Viper line. Naturally a full race program.

OK so will Ferrari double the price while they're at it? The last thing I want to see is Ferrari running the Viper program.

Ferrari has enough insecurity that they won't let anyone loan a LaFerrari to do battle against the 918 and P1, what makes you think they would help develop a car that will beat theirs performance wise?

[Simms]

Odd timing. Seems like anytime the viper gets good press someone has to throw some negativity out there.

[I Bin Therbefor]

What planet are you from ?? UOTE=I Bin Therbefor;153118]Now that Ferrari is going IPO, how about FCA giving Ferrari the rights to the Viper. Ferrari then would introduce a "Viper by Ferrari"; the present car further developed (9 to 10 ltrs V-10) and built at a Prefix operated facility in the USA. Sell through Ferrari dealers and VERY selected Dodge dealers. That gives the "Viper by Ferrari" an AT from Ferrari, a convertible from Prefix, and a GT and a track car from the existing Viper line. Naturally a full race program.[/QUOTE]

Neptune. We're here as missionaries to help the backward natives.

I've got to joke, because if not I'll be torn between shouting in anger or crying in frustration.

Here we've got a magnificent car both in style and performance soon to be out of production due to ? - bad marketing, greedy dealers, auto press - I don't know. What I fear is in a couple of years reading Viper on the list of those that should have been a market success but weren't.

[Coloviper]

Can't market against government. No matter how great Dodge could do or didn't do with marketing the car, EPA and safety regs will win out. If they had their way, we would be in horse carriages. Then again all those horses farting, the EPA would ensure we put them on a low methane diet.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Can't market against government. No matter how great Dodge could do or didn't do with marketing the car, EPA and safety regs will win out. If they had their way, we would be in horse carriages. Then again all those horses farting, the EPA would ensure we put them on a low methane diet.

When cars were first introduced in New York, the newspapers were thrilled because the cars would eliminate the horse manure that was clogging the streets and smelling up the city. Go figure.

[ViperGeorge]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, or something like that. Either way it sounds like the guy was talking about the EPA.

[KB Viper]

I would hope they would keep the gen v going until 2020 and get a nice long run out of it. To me a 4 year model run just seems to short.

[Brian GTS]

I can't predict the future-but there is no HAPPIER car guy on the planet than me right now!! My 2 Vipers are HANDS DOWN the most amazing vehicles on the road-there isn't car out there that I would trade either of them for-except maybe another Viper!! Should the powers that be decide to "kill it"-I will make sure I have a 3rd tucked away to use in 2018 and beyond!! I drove home next to a 2015 corvette tonight-I followed him for a few miles and I'm sorry-the ass of that car is hideous!!!!! The Viper is in "no mans land" when it comes to cutting edge technology-it is most definitely a UNIQUE BRUTE-an exclusive throwback-the kind of car that is NOT for the "androgynous" type of person that seems to dominate our world!! My wish is that "just enough REAL driving enthusiasts" purchase it for FCA to continue to develop it - the Viper is IMO the most fun one can have on 4 wheels-WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!

PLUS ONE!!! The current Viper is a phenomenal machine and we have the 1 of 1 program, ACR, etc. I mean, the 1 of 1 program alone is amazing! Live it up and enjoy because this is the heyday for the Viper program! :)

[ViperDog]

Good thing is, the Viper program goes on for another two years. A lot can happen between now and then, like sales picking up.

[ViperDog]

I am sure there is a GOVT mandate in 2017 that may not work for the Viper. The car has never been about sales.

Bruce

Maybe, but it still has to make a business case. Even as a halo car, sales this low isn't going to help it survive.

[ViperSmith]

Maybe, but it still has to make a business case. Even as a halo car, sales this low isn't going to help it survive.

I think power train will change - but Dodge has been investing in may ways a lot into the Viper as of late. From the ACR, CCB as an option, custom paint options, customization, etc.

I don't see that just all being abandoned in less than two years for, well nothing.

[Aspirations57]

Why even worry about it, it will most likely be beyond our control anyway. Lets enjoy what we have now in the Viper world and see what Dodge/SRT can come up with so we can bitch about that later.lol

[Newport Viper]

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2015/10/viper-leaving-in-2017-30239?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[donk_316]

2017 is the last year? I guess that's the "big news coming from the plant in a few weeks" that was rumored.

[Darius]

That's not true!! They are delivering blown v10's to Detroit right now!!:lol2::witless:



http://horsepowerkings.com/reports-are-coming-in-saying-supercharged-v10s-have-been-delivered-to-chrysler-viper-update-coming/

[ACR]

doesn't make much sense, the ACR just came out, don't you think their supreme car would have had the best? Also, the article states the tremec 6060 tops out at 650tq, we are already at 600ftlbs, a supercharger would be well north of 50ftlbs

[donk_316]

doesn't make much sense, the ACR just came out, don't you think their supreme car would have had the best? Also, the article states the tremec 6060 tops out at 650tq, we are already at 600ftlbs, a supercharger would be well north of 50ftlbs

Dude the HP kings link is a known click-bait. He was just having fun and saying its just a rumor

[ACR]

Dude the HP kings link is a known click-bait. He was just having fun and saying its just a rumor

lol after reading his post again I see that, shit it's 1:15 am, I'm mush...

[VENOM V]

For those of you who don't know Newport Viper, he's our resident pessimist. Not quite a troll, but always glad to rain on everyone's parade. You won't hear from him for months, when times are good. The second any bad news shows up or better yet, an unsubstantiated rumor appears, so does Newport! It's like hokus pokus.

[donk_316]

Looks like the rumors were true... ?

[ViperSmith]

For those of you who don't know Newport Viper, he's our resident pessimist. Not quite a troll, but always glad to rain on everyone's parade. You won't hear from him for months, when times are good. The second any bad news shows up or better yet, an unsubstantiated rumor appears, so does Newport! It's like hokus pokus.

https://greeneggsandlam.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/debbiedowner.jpg

[sparkrn]

I heard of this 2017 end date back in June of this year. The reason being that the existing car will not be able to meet government safety requirements for various things such as airbags etc. I don't want this to be the case, but from who told me, I tend to think it's true. I sure hope I have been told wrong and it all works out somehow!

[99RT10]

Repost :D

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10831-Is-this-the-end

[FLATOUT]

For those of you who don't know Newport Viper, he's our resident pessimist. Not quite a troll, but always glad to rain on everyone's parade. You won't hear from him for months, when times are good. The second any bad news shows up or better yet, an unsubstantiated rumor appears, so does Newport! It's like hokus pokus.

Quoting again so everyone can read.

[Coloviper]

Could be the end, only internal really knows. 25 years of production is well beyond what the fore-fathers thought it could do. That is a success in itself. Everything runs a course in life, including people.

I want to believe it will live on in some form as 25 years of branding is not something you just throw away. However there are principles and values to the brand which can not be compromised and still keep the brand pure. Are those principles and values important today to the buyer, well.....................some at best.

If it is the end, accept with grace, get all relevant information, history, etc over to the club and Prefix. Let it live on in the private sector. I would be okay with that. The car will be a collector as long as replacement parts start to be made and sold without Viper Tax on top of Viper Tax. Honestly if the car was a lot easier to maintain ar a reasonable price, you would see a resurgence on the collector status.

I mean for $25k you can get a near no stories Gen I used. That is a ton of car for the money. If I was a youngin' looking for a first car and had money, wow what a great opportunity at a great price. Hell today, it just takes one good movie where the Viper is the main car in it for the collector community to remember how great it was.

Whatever happens, I am in the brand for life with one or two Vipers. I want to add a Gen V if I can in the next year or two. Which would be by 2017. Guess we will see.

[Purplekoolaid]

Guys,

My dad works at viper as one of the white-collared workers at the plant. He has been predicting this for a long time, although he doesn't know anything for sure. When the viper was proposed to Sergio, it had to have a business case, and the business case was 12 cars a day at $100k. Now they only produce 3 cars a day at $85k and have occasional shut-downs. He believes (but doesn't know) that the viper with the price cut is actually losing money. I think he predicted that same year that it would end due to contracts with suppliers.

I will be buying one ASAP using his EP, even though he'll likely knock my head clean off since I'm 25. That, or pick the safer option of buying a used one without him knowing.

Btw, he has not heard or seen anything about supercharged engines going to the plant, and is baffled every time he hears about them. He did say there is a low liklihood they "sneak" them in so the workers don't know about them and leak details, but the plant has less than 100 people total.

I've wanted a viper my entire life, and I'm finally at an age to get one, albeit financially irresponsibly. This is the 'sign' I need to buy one ASAP.

[Snakebit10]

Sad sad news. Hopefully it will come back in a few years. Well at least we hope FCA learned a lot from the failures surrounding the G5 through no fault of the car. I hope it comes back better than ever, with a dealer network and customer service that is the cars equal. What a way to go out though. I hope they blaze as many tracks as they can with the TA and ACR and send Halley out with a bang with many track records.

[swexlin]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Remember, there was a break in 07, and from 11-12. Maybe a year or two break, and then in 2019 or 2020? We'll see.

[donk_316]

I kinda hope they do call it a day on the Viper... Then the G5 will be the best one ever built... and not a new and improved one in a few years making mine outdated.

[99RT10]

I kinda hope they do call it a day on the Viper... Then the G5 will be the best one ever built... and not a new and improved one in a few years making mine outdated.

This has to be one of the most retarded statements. To want the viper to end so you have the "best one"? Really? :rolleyes:

I would rather see it continental to a G6 and get even better. :drive:

[Viper Girl]

From the Detroit Free Press

"The production shuffle would leave the Dodge Viper as the only car produced by Fiat Chrysler in the United States. Workers at Conner Avenue Assembly in Detroit hand-built just 760 of the V-8 sports cars last year."

have to question the article though... Anyone have a V8 Viper? LMAO



http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/chrysler/2015/09/17/uaw-fca-deal/32559393/

Merging threads two threads on the subject

[Sybil TF]

Wonder if I should get a gem 5 before it's too late?

[BlackSnake99]

Wonder if I should get a gem 5 before it's too late?


So you think that when they stop production all Gen Vs will magically cease to exist?

[99RT10]

So you think that when they stop production all Gen Vs will magically cease to exist?

Only the red ones.

[Murpowa]

No, owners begin to ask ridiculous prices due to supply and demand principles

So you think that when they stop production all Gen Vs will magically cease to exist?

[BlackSnake99]

No, owners begin to ask ridiculous prices due to supply and demand principles

Lol. If you think the Gen V (as much as I like it) will suddenly appreciate once production stops when they are having difficulty selling them now, then I think you will be disappointed.

[drueherl]

I think if we are all honest with ourselves we would agree with a previous post that says a viper is financially irresponsible. I think that the manufacturer would also agree... All good things come to an end. I'm glad I have one and would recommend those that don't get one.

[ViperSmith]

I am unsure why people think Prefix is setup to "take over the Viper" - that is an absolute fantasy.

Dodge must lose an insurmountable money on each one sold - how do people expect a pretty boutique company like Prefix to be able to manufacture and produce a product like that?

Dodge will continue with the Viper after 2017, as long as the economy keeps (seemingly) pumping along.

[99RT10]

Lol. If you think the Gen V (as much as I like it) will suddenly appreciate once production stops when they are having difficulty selling them now, then I think you will be disappointed.

Ford had a hard time selling the GT and now look at them! Murpowa might be right, my 140k mile 94 is going to be worth well over $100k.

Yeah me!


:D

[Voice of Reason]

Well someone out there better be ordering the perfect ACR Extreme, and then sit on it in their garage, so I can buy it from them in 5 years. And that's all I have to say about that.

[99RT10]

Well someone out there better be ordering the perfect ACR Extreme, and then sit on it in their garage, so I can buy it from them in 5 years. And that's all I have to say about that.

By then, it will be worth $250K. You might want to get it now, while it's still cheap......................... really. :car-smiley-003:

[Photog1]

To much doom and gloom!!! Stay positive that the Viper will continue for many years to come. Dodge knows that the Viper is responsible for huge sales of other FCA brands.
Before my first Viper all of my cars were GM. Since my first Viper 11 years ago I have bought all Chrysler product. As you can see from my signature all Dodges.
LONG CONTINUE THE VIPER!!!

Also why so many Enthusiast?? You guys need to join the VOA!!

[Stealth]

The Viper has traditionally had some years off during production. it is only normal that there would be some adjustments to the next model given emissions requirements and consumer demand.owners of the last 2005 - 2006 Ford GT cars are probably not upset that their car is out of production. I am amazed every day that dodge built such an amazing car and I do not expect to sell my 2014 GTS anytime soon

[Murpowa]

Lol. If you think the Gen V (as much as I like it) will suddenly appreciate once production stops when they are having difficulty selling them now, then I think you will be disappointed.

Your arrogance is laughable.

Let's say they produce a MAXIMUM of 50 ACR extremes from 2015 to 2017. Production ceases and the Viper is no more. I would say those 50 extremes will be awfully rare, would they not?

[BlackSnake99]

Your arrogance is laughable.

Let's say they produce a MAXIMUM of 50 ACR extremes from 2015 to 2017. Production ceases and the Viper is no more. I would say those 50 extremes will be awfully rare, would they not?


Because I (respectfully I might add) disagreed with you I am arrogant? Really? You should have read my first response before I edited it for the VOA board...

You can't change the focus of a debate in midstream and expect to get anywhere, Hoss. We were discussing the Gen V in general, remember? I (respectfully) disagree that Gen V prices will shoot up suddenly at the conclusion of the production run such that Sybil/TommyFox will be forced to get one while she 'still can' or whatever she said. Now, do I think that the ultra-rare Extreme ACR will appreciate ala the FGT? Yes, I do. I do not have the same hope for the run-of-the mill Gen V.

See how nice I was? I didn't call you an asshole even once!

[Murpowa]

Because I (respectfully I might add) disagreed with you I am arrogant? Really? You should have read my first response before I edited it for the VOA board...

You can't change the focus of a debate in midstream and expect to get anywhere, Hoss. We were discussing the Gen V in general, remember? I (respectfully) disagree that Gen V prices will shoot up suddenly at the conclusion of the production run such that Sybil/TommyFox will be forced to get one while she 'still can' or whatever she said. Now, do I think that the ultra-rare Extreme ACR will appreciate ala the FGT? Yes, I do. I do not have the same hope for the run-of-the mill Gen V.

See how nice I was? I didn't call you an asshole even once!

1) There was no change in debate - the topic is directed at the Gen V (???????)
2) No where did I state that I expect the price of a Gen V to "shoot up suddenly"
3) No where did I call you an asshole

[WANTED]

Because I (respectfully I might add) disagreed with you I am arrogant? Really? You should have read my first response before I edited it for the VOA board...

You can't change the focus of a debate in midstream and expect to get anywhere, Hoss. We were discussing the Gen V in general, remember? I (respectfully) disagree that Gen V prices will shoot up suddenly at the conclusion of the production run such that Sybil/TommyFox will be forced to get one while she 'still can' or whatever she said. Now, do I think that the ultra-rare Extreme ACR will appreciate ala the FGT? Yes, I do. I do not have the same hope for the run-of-the mill Gen V.

See how nice I was? I didn't call you an asshole even once!

LMAO, great post

[BlackSnake99]

No, owners begin to ask ridiculous prices due to supply and demand principles


2) No where did I state that I expect the price of a Gen V to "shoot up suddenly"


Uhm, well in essence, yes you did.

[TheAnonymousOne]

Fiat has to pour money into their (IMO) crappy plan to make Maserati and Alfa like a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's highly unlikely to succeed. Maserati, Fiat, and Alfa are not known for their quality. I can see them remaining niche brands, but Fiat is betting big on them. No money left or incentive for them to focus on the Viper.

[Dman]

When the viper was killed before (which turned out to only be a 2 year coma) prices didn't spike, I bought my gen4 then and got a great deal, there were deals happening because there are 2 ways of looking at it, they aren't making them anymore so 1. the supply is now limited so price should go up 2. it's a discontinued car and currently sparse support will now only dwindle further, so good luck with that.

It would be ironic if the one thing that would finally make a viper worth more, or it's true value, is it's death.

Any who, been hearing this for a while, when Fiat announces it, then I'll believe it, and even then, wouldn't surprise me if 2-3 yrs later it's resurrected with a totally new engine / drivetrain combo for the new world. Either way, I've got mine, and if I want to move to another model, I will, really no impact to me for years to come and hopefully it'll either be here or be back.

[Granger73]

The only car I know of that Really turned out to be an "instant Collectable " was the FGT. Any thoughts as to why this particular car made it?

[TitanSnake]

Strategically, FIAT would be better poised in the market if they stick a detuned Ferrari v12 motor down in the viper chassis like VW did with the 5.2 v10 shared in the Audi R8 and the Gallardo/ Huracan.

[TrackAire]

The only car I know of that Really turned out to be an "instant Collectable " was the FGT. Any thoughts as to why this particular car made it?

I still believe it was because about 5 years ago few guys started running them at the Texas mile and getting over 200 mph, then 230's etc. I think they ended up over the 250 mph mark in the mile. The cars looked nearly bone stock on the outside....but underneath they probably had an additional $100k to $200k of modifications to the motor, drivetrain, etc.

So they start getting a lot of internet press and people started noticing the car and it's performance potential. Now mix in the iconic looks, the racing history of the original GT-40's and it started to hype up. So you could buy a car in the $110k range used and people point to it and say "wow, I just watched that thing go over 200 mph at the Texas Mile last week....what an awesome car". The reality is a bone stock FGT probably wouldn't get over 170 mph in the mile. Once the prices started to go up a little, people jumped in worried that they're going to miss out. Then you have Barrett Jackson, etc showing hours of television coverage of auctions and the prices get even more inflated. Once you get two or more really drunk guys with unlimited funds bidding on the same car, the price just gets silly....but once the hammer strikes, every other FGT owner thinks his car is now worth what the auction produced. Now Ford junkies were looking at the FGT as the future Shelby Cobra and how it appreciated.

Just my opinion of why the FGT appreciated like it did.

If the Gen 5 Viper was the fastest drag car or standing mile car, that would definitely help values and appreciation. 99% of the masses only care about straight line speed. Unfortunately road course records aren't as important to the masses since most people either drag race on the street or do a quick burst on the freeway and shut her down.

[Simms]

IF it did end in 17, no vert? Or as a 17?

[ACR Steve]

"It would be ironic if the one thing that would finally make a viper worth more, or it's true value, is it's death."

Just like any great artist.

All rumors ,nothing new . Everyone wants to say you heard it first by them . If they are wrong nobody looks back at what they said. However if they are right they will be the first to say they predicted it.

Just keep buying Vipers . Maybe Sergio and his bean counters will understand our passion

[Drummerviper]

I still believe it was because about 5 years ago few guys started running them at the Texas mile and getting over 200 mph, then 230's etc. I think they ended up over the 250 mph mark in the mile. The cars looked nearly bone stock on the outside....but underneath they probably had an additional $100k to $200k of modifications to the motor, drivetrain, etc.

So they start getting a lot of internet press and people started noticing the car and it's performance potential. Now mix in the iconic looks, the racing history of the original GT-40's and it started to hype up. So you could buy a car in the $110k range used and people point to it and say "wow, I just watched that thing go over 200 mph at the Texas Mile last week....what an awesome car". The reality is a bone stock FGT probably wouldn't get over 170 mph in the mile. Once the prices started to go up a little, people jumped in worried that they're going to miss out. Then you have Barrett Jackson, etc showing hours of television coverage of auctions and the prices get even more inflated. Once you get two or more really drunk guys with unlimited funds bidding on the same car, the price just gets silly....but once the hammer strikes, every other FGT owner thinks his car is now worth what the auction produced. Now Ford junkies were looking at the FGT as the future Shelby Cobra and how it appreciated.

Just my opinion of why the FGT appreciated like it did.

If the Gen 5 Viper was the fastest drag car or standing mile car, that would definitely help values and appreciation. 99% of the masses only care about straight line speed. Unfortunately road course records aren't as important to the masses since most people either drag race on the street or do a quick burst on the freeway and shut her down.


Are you saying there was a time GTs were $110 or did I misread?

[sparkrn]

Are you saying there was a time GTs were $110 or did I misread?

I think it was just an example he used, everyone knows the GT never fell in value.

[viper_eddie]

Are you saying there was a time GTs were $110 or did I misread?

They did bottom out in the low $100k range awhile ago then spiked up. The Ford GT was never an "instant" collectible.

[Rapidrezults]

I like the idea of comparing an ACR Extreme to a GT3 RS 4.0. Only 600 made, and a true track car like the Extreme. Probably wishful thinking but by the time 2017 rolls around there may only be a few hundred or less of the Extremes built, and if it can just hold to anywhere near 10-15% of its original value I'd be happy. I do think that N/A track cars of this caliber will be more appreciated in the next 3-5 years.

[SlateEd]

If this rumor is not true, I hope FCA straightens it out. I'm looking at ordering a new viper right now and am hesitant to buy a $115,000 car that will have a dwindling base of owners (voa). I mostly only drive my car at club events, and with halting production that means a shrinking membership and events to attend. SAY IT ISNT TRUE

Luckily this won't be an issue... even if production stops relatively soon (and I don't personally think it will) the VOA is only growing. Many Vipers are out there being enjoyed by people who haven't experienced the VOA yet... it's our own marketing challenge to find and attract those owners to hang out with like-minded-maniacs, but there are plenty of 'new members' out there without any additional new cars. VOA will thrive for decades regardless.
but on a personal note I would like to buy a new one and won't have the coin for another few years... so Dodge, please keep em coming!

[darbgnik]

They did bottom out in the low $100k range awhile ago then spiked up. The Ford GT was never an "instant" collectible.

I should have bought one in 2008 when I was considering it......... that train has left the station however. I don't remember 110, but I do remember sub 150.

[Vprbite]

I love my fellow members. But I don't need them, the "dwindling base of owners" as sparkm called us to enjoy it. I went to dinner with my girlfriend tonight and came out to 6 people standing around my car talking about it and when I came to get into it, they were asking abut performance, naturally aspirated vs FI and such, and that kind of stuff happens all the time. Not to mention the enjoyment of driving it I get which I would if I were the only person on earth. I would be saddened if all of my VOA friends were suddenly gone because they all ascended to heaven during the rapture while I stay squarely planted here (I've accepted the fact that I will be "Left Behind" and im ok with it.) because they are great people and add to the enjoyment. But I love the car even if I am the only one who owns one.

Either way, I still think this is all rampant speculation on the part of ALLPAR who I put in the journalistic realm of the national enquirer. And, just because the auto union doesn't have a contract doesn't mean they won't make the car. They may just decide to quit being bullied by unions which had run roughshod over the auto industry for years. (Please note, I am not saying all unions or union members are bad. Just that the situation on detroit had gotten bad ) and we saw and paid for the results of that lovely marriage.

Also, the ford GT was desirable, but was not the investment juggernaut it is now the instant it was released. It took a little bit. Plus, they only made that thing for 3 years or so. Take out the wrecked ones, take out the highly modded ones and there not very many to be had. I believe that is what is producing the values we see now.

[ACRucrazy]

They did bottom out in the low $100k range awhile ago then spiked up. The Ford GT was never an "instant" collectible.

Truth. I remember the thought of selling my house so I could buy a heritage, looking back it would have been the better decision. Haha.

[Coloviper]

I should have bought one in 2008 when I was considering it......... that train has left the station however. I don't remember 110, but I do remember sub 150.

Lowest I remember was near the end of the run. 3 option car, brand new for $115k. After the initial shine wore off the release, they were not not in the desired collector range and Ford offering discounts to move the last few.

Then a few years later, they started to just jump. Likely the mid-engine and LOW maintenance of living with a Ford contributed to the collector status.

Until we get a handle on this absolutely ridiculous Viper Tax BS, the car will never be a true collector. I feel that is the one reason the Viper has never hit this status. Mopar jacking things up 1000% on simple stuff is to blame.

Once car is out of production and Sergio gets his wish, GM will have nothing to do with Viper. Hopefully Viper John Parts of America steps in and buys all remaining inventory and hopefully Prefix acquires all engineering and supplier relationships so that everything is out of whoever owns Chrysler and in the hands of our community. 10 years from now, we could see it pop. Then again if we are still asking 1000% markup for basic stuff once the car is out f production, ain't going to happen.

[Granger73]

They did bottom out in the low $100k range awhile ago then spiked up. The Ford GT was never an "instant" collectible.
In the car collector world, it was an instant collectable.

[roadrunner]

Part supply is not the answer to the Ford GT resurgence versus Viper... have you priced any FGT parts lately? They are completely unavailable or exceptionally expensive. Headlamps alone were unavailable by the end of 2006... and were thousands of dollars even if you could find them. Perhaps the opposite is true... the more expensive the parts, the more value there is in the vehicles regardless of condition.

Ford GT sales/production (Wikipedia)



Year
Reported US Sales
Production


Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
Total


2005
7
4
44
70
117
150
91
113
176
165
157
208
1302
2027


2006
157
194
204
157
178
185
147
143
133
102
261
58
1919
2011


Grand Total
3452
4038

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Ford GT was a unique case:

Only made 2 years (although not super limited numbers).
Nothing before or after like it. The new GT will impress but is also much more expensive, limited and a "only" V6.
American / Ford. Ford does not have a Corvette or Viper so Ford fans only have the 2 year run (until now).
No other american made rear engine car.
Ferrari level performance for MSRP of $150k, priced "too low" to begin with?
Historical / nostalgic value (why else would a paint job nearly double the price)
Bulletproof and easy to get tons of power without upgrading the entire car.
Performance and styling was a home run.
Collectors / investors / auctions got a hold of it and pricing has shot through the roof. Hard to say if it is a bubble waiting to burst.
Probably missing something.


While a Viper has a lot of these attributes, there are tons of them by comparison (all years considered), but when you boil them down by year / model not so much. However, for those who want a Viper there are many more to choose from from 92 to present day.

It will be interesting to see if the last of the top tier performance oriented NA cars gain value eventually. The Z/28 has huge discounts right now, not sure how long it will be before they begin to climb again. On one hand it is the end of an era, on the other hand do people really care? If all were offered at once more people would prefer the GT500 and Hellcat than the GT350R and Z/28. Most people want the power number, creature comforts, stereo, and a nice interior. Not everyone is a purist and appreciates the hard core track car with NA power. Maybe not until they become garage art for collectors. This is why many are asking why would someone pay $25k more for a Z/28 than a ZL1 when it dosen't have a radio and has 80 less HP. This is how the masses think, and in reality they are being reasonable for what they will use the car for which isn't really driving on a track.

When the Viper came out it was essentially the Hellcat or Ford GT of the time, unfortunately the power bar keeps rising for now and the only way to keep producing these power numbers is with forced induction. While those of us here see what that did to the Z06 in a negative light, I'm afraid most people don't care and just want a power number to put on a T-shirt / badge / etc. People are used to the power numbers increasing hand over fist with the next model release, that's going to have to plateau at some point (it already has in a way). Rising power and reducing emissions doesn't mix with a traditional power plant. After that what will sell cars, what will the bragging rights be? Why will joe blow need the next big thing if not for 50 more HP?

If a car goes 0-60 in 3 seconds do people really care if it is electric, a V8, V6, etc. That is the question for the next 10-20 years. Could a supercharged Viper with 900 HP pass emissions and go out with a bang? As much as I hate to say it, I think the Viper would sell a lot better if that was an option although personally I'd rather have the existing NA ACR. What if the Viper kept the same horsepower but lost 500 lbs? Headlines wouldn't be a fraction of what they would be for 900HP.

The Viper has helped advance the course of the HP wars for its entire life. I think the HP war is an era that might be coming to a close soon. If that's the case, rebooting the formula for whatever is next might be the best thing. When the Viper died in 2010 it was more due to the economy, if it died again it would be for reasons beyond the financial aspects. I don't believe it has ever been about the money, halo cars usually aren't (Z06 may be an exception).

If suddenly Vipers became worth $300k, think about your insurance costs and taxes, think about the "risk" of taking it out on the track, think about mileage concerns with just driving it. There would be tons more posts on how much they went for at the auctions, etc. and probably less on track days. More investors vs people who actually enjoy driving them on a regular basis. Cost of entry would be higher for those who wanted one, etc.

[Bill Pemberton]

SSG -- well written, well thought out with a common sense approach. I still firmly believe the demise of the Viper, if it happens, is caused more by the problematic nature manufacturers are having in getting bigger displacement engines to meet tightening EPA standards. One only has to look at the Ford approach to Ecoboost everything , including the new Ford GT. Motors are getting smaller and smaller or going the Hybrid route. We may be seeing the end to HP wars as we know it , as stated by many.

[ViperDC]

I'll believe it when I see it. Lots of speculation there...

[v10enomous]

Let me know when they sell the rights to the "Viper" name.

[TrackAire]

Are you saying there was a time GTs were $110 or did I misread?

I was strictly speaking used cars when they were in the lower $100k range when the economic world was taking a crap. My point being a well kept FGT with 23000 miles on it is just as stunning as a FGT with 2400 miles on it. When parked next to each other, they look identical. If I had a crystal ball back in the 2007-2009 time frame, a very clean (although high miles in the world of FGT) unit could be had at a bargain compare to today's prices.

Hell, I've even wondered if I had bought a couple of salvage titled units at the low point, they probably would have easily sold at a huge gain recently, especially to the overseas market.

[Zybane]

Oh jeez, seems this rumor has hit Leftlanenews:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/fca-to-retire-dodge-viper-in-2017-89951.html

[99RT10]

Oh jeez, seems this rumor has hit Leftlanenews:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/fca-to-retire-dodge-viper-in-2017-89951.html

It's not a rumor. The car is dead. The smart people should recognize the opportunity to get the last few and arguably the best made Vipers ever. Every single 2017 car should be sold before it leaves the production line.

[viper_eddie]

In the car collector world, it was an instant collectable.

Sorry but I don't really understand what that means. I have limited collector car knowledge and, frankly, could care less about it except for the fact that a bunch of people with lots more money than me raise prices to artificially high levels which means enthusiasts who want to drive certain cars will never get a chance to. That's what bothers me about it.

I'm not a betting person but even if they shut down production in 2017 I am willing to bet they'l reintroduce the car.

[Granger73]

The
Sorry but I don't really understand what that means. I have limited collector car knowledge and, frankly, could care less about it except for the fact that a bunch of people with lots more money than me raise prices to artificially high levels which means enthusiasts who want to drive certain cars will never get a chance to. That's what bothers me about it.

I'm not a betting person but even if they shut down production in 2017 I am willing to bet they'l reintroduce the car.
It typically takes 20-25 years for a collectable car to see dramatic price appreciation. It only took the FGT @2-3 years.

[ViperDC]

It's not a rumor. The car is dead.

It's a rumor until it's confirmed by Dodge.

[J TNT]

It is all speculation, but it is also a great time to Buy a New Viper for those who are concerned! :)

[bogdan]

Oh jeez, seems this rumor has hit Leftlanenews:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/fca-to-retire-dodge-viper-in-2017-89951.html

The comments section is full of derp.

[Coloviper]

Time will tell. I don't think Dodge will kill it but then again, they may have another Halo concept of where they want the company to go in the future. Present Viper really doesn't fit a product technology blending into the other lines, unless you count side marker lights and the entertainment system. If they do kill it, then they do and thankfully I have one. Hoping to add a GEN V before the end, new or used. If the end, then will find a way to make that happen.

Who knows, the GM Merger thing could be a lot more real than we think. Once Ferrari IPOs, and Chrysler has some more cash on top of cash, it is entirely possible the GM Acquisition could be very real to get their hands on that FCA cash, etc.

The comments section of that Left Lane is a bit embarrassing. If this is what the car hobby has become today, I am glad I am a dinosaur and rolling with a different crowd. A lot of those people need to put down the magazines, turn off their computers and drive a car. So much about the new vette, blah, blah., blah. Even if that vette did not overheat, it is still the ugliest thing on wheels today, outside of the Aztec. Will never own it, EVER.

Either way, 25 years by 2017 is hell far and gone more time that anyone would have given it at any time since inception. It is a proud product and a hell of a machine.

[Bruce H.]

Reports of the Gen V's death have been greatly exaggerated for the last three years ;) But I think this is the first time it hasn't come from a forum member, LOL.

[RedTanRT/10]

Oh jeez, seems this rumor has hit Leftlanenews:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/fca-to-retire-dodge-viper-in-2017-89951.html


From today's Automotive news;


DETROIT -- The Viper, Dodge’s all-American exotic sports car launched nearly a quarter-century ago to much acclaim, will end production in 2017, according to details contained in Fiat Chrysler’s new contract with the UAW.

The product plan is included in the agreement that will be voted on by UAW members next week. It also indicates that FCA will upgrade its eight-speed automatic transmission.

The original Viper went into production in 1992. It was updated in 1996, 2003 and 2008, before Chrysler’s bankruptcy ended its run in 2010. A redesigned version debuted in 2013, but a big price increase and improved competitors hurt sales.

The 650-hp sports coupe is built at FCA’s Conner Avenue assembly plant in Detroit. The company's $5.3 billion product plan indicates no replacement vehicle for the small factory where Vipers are built by hand by about 80 employees.

FCA has struggled to sell the Viper since its relaunch. Through September, just 503 Vipers were sold in the United States, down 7.9 percent from the same period a year before. Dodge sold just 760 Vipers in all of 2014.

In addition to other product changes first reported by Automotive News in September -- such as Ram 1500 production moving from Warren Assembly in suburban Detroit to Sterling Heights Assembly 10 miles away -- the plan also shows that FCA plans to squeeze more efficiency out of its current eight-speed automatic.

The transmission -- used in almost all of FCA’s rear-wheel-drive based cars, crossovers and SUVs -- will switch from a current “Gen1” to “Gen2,” according to details given UAW members about FCA’s Kokomo, Ind., transmission complex.

No timeframe was provided for the transmission upgrade, however.

The eight-speed was designed by ZF Friedrichshafen and licensed to FCA. In its current configuration, the eight-speed provides a 9 percent boost in fuel economy over a six-speed automatic, according to FCA’s securities filings.

You can reach Larry P. Vellequette at lvellequette@crain.com.

[ViperSmith]

Why does everyone assume that Conner not building the Viper means no more Viper? Could be consolidating to other places, etc. perhaps they'll pay Prefix to build it for them.

Conner no longer building it per a contract doesn't mean much.

[Coloviper]

I don't think they can pay Prefix to build it as would that not go against UAW contracts? Then again didn't Ford pay Saleen to build the Ford GT back then, when Saleen Performance Vehicles was in Detroit?

An interesting note is the laws did change a year or so ago that as long as you were producing less than 300 vehicles per year, anyone could build a "replica" vehicle for sale and not have to comply with current EPA and crash test standards. Could that be why the GEN V was brought back on a retro GEN II Coupe styling. In that case, with that loop, Prefix could take full ownership over producing and selling the 2018+ Vipers from their operations and not hurt UAW, nor other contracts in place. Maybe this is why they are developing 9L and 10L prototype motors? It is proven, they only need to sell their retro-cars through the top 4 dealers to meet a 300 car max.

Quite the conspiracy deal but then again, I believe in Aliens. I see them everyday. They are illegal but Aliens. Ha! Ha!

[donk_316]

You guys are seriously reaching if you think a finish company like prefix is going to start producing entire cars.

[ViperSmith]

My point only was that Conner not building Vipers doesn't mean that Vipers won't be built.

I don't think Prefix can do it either.

[Bruce H.]

When we toured Prefix as part of NVE1 they claimed to have the ability to design and build complete cars, or soon would. Buying Arrow and hiring Mr. Winkles would be another step towards that goal.

[viper04]

I do hope it stays.!:(

[v10enomous]

The Dodge Viper Is the Last Great American Car

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27047/the-viper-is-the-last-great-american-car/

[Stealth]

The Dodge Viper Is the Last Great American Car

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a27047/the-viper-is-the-last-great-american-car/

A lot of misinformation in that article.

My '14 Bumblebee GTS with all the Carbon Fiber and Laguna Leather does not "have cheap interior bits", "smell funny when it gets hot", etc. as noted in the article.

Our cars are hand-built, precision, nuclear-powered sledge hammers! They are not latte, poser-machines. The public has always had a hard time appreciating the distinction and seems more and more interested in cars to drive to Starbucks vs. cars to drive.

Glad I got my Viper! I believe the FCA will stay in the game with the Viper as a Halo car, although there may be some normal generational break while the new beast is created.

[mikesax]

It really is a PHENOMINAL automobile!! Cool article-HOWEVER there is NOTHING-I repeat NOTHING CHEAP about the interior of my 2 GTS's-also they SMELL MAHVELOUS!!! The Viper sound is "the Viper sound" though-unique and glorious 24/7 IMO!! I will have a third-that's for sure!! If there were no Viper's I'd probably own a corvette-BUT- in todays world "Corvettes are for people that CAN'T handle a Viper"-plain and simple!! I'm 5'11'-180 lbs-and my Viper's fit me "like a glove"!! Have seen a few Corvette people TRY to FIT in my Viper's and they TRULY can't enter and sit in a comfortable fashion!! The Viper truly is a race car you can drive on the street-I've logged about 38,000 miles in my 13-14-15 over the last 28 months-I drive them daily for most of the year-and TO ME they are the most COMFORTABLE cars I've ever owned!! Once I sat in my first Viper-my 2010 vert-I was hooked!! I felt like I was HOME!!! They are MORE comfortable than my Raptor and Range Rover-which RARELY get driven-mostly used in the dead of the Jersey winter!! TOO MUCH interior room-sounds ODD I know-but I LOVE being "tucked in" when I sit in my Viper's!! I TRULY feel like I am one with the car-that is such a GREAT feeling to me!! It doesn't hurt that I think it's the HOTTEST piece of machinery on the road either!! In any event-the original Cobra's kind of sold how our Viper's sold-and those who kept them SMILED for years after!! Another misunderstood ICON when it was available to purchase 50 years ago-similar to the Viper today IMO-so bring on the future-it's ALL GOOD!! I will continue to slip in to my Viper's one day at a time and smile for EVERY minute of EVERY mile-I couldn't think of a better way to get from point A to point B!!!

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Here's a positive rumor I'm starting: Viper bows out in 2017 only to be replaced by SRTs version of the rear engine car to compete with Ford GT and the new Zora Vette. Just imagine a rear engine ACR with 2000lbs of downforce.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I am glad I have a V10 Viper, not a V8 or V6. I really don't think this is the end of the Viper, but it will probably take some other form, i.e., supercharged or twin turbo V6. Just a sign of the times, Ford GT is showing the way. I guess I am too old school and think there is no replacement for displacement. If you have a V10 you better hang on to it or get em while you can. The prices of the remaining Vipers will definitely go up when the V10 is no longer available in a new Viper, whether or not a twin turbo V6 is faster, etc. I would like to be around in 40 years to see what a V10 Viper is worth then. Look at a Hemi Superbird today and how valuable and sought after they are now. You could not give a Superbird away in 1970.

[duffman04]

Like it or not, putting a quality fast shifting auto or DCT in the viper is what will get the car selling enough for FCA to make money on. No its not a true drivers car then, but at least you'll be able to buy a viper in the future.

[Chipster]

Made front page of Fox news this morning with an article about going out in 2017.

[jvm728]

Made front page of Fox news this morning with an article about going out in 2017.

That was up yesterday. So sad. So much publicity and dodge/SRT has said nothing

[Chipster]

That was up yesterday. So sad. So much publicity and dodge/SRT has said nothing

Oops. Hopefully not the case that Viper ends. Some note from SRT would be good

[mjorgensen]

What I think sucks is that for the life of the Viper there is very little press, now that there is a possibility it will go away every news outlet and blogger want to write about it... The only hope is that FCA sees all the out cry and changes directions :-)

[v10enomous]

What I think sucks is that for the life of the Viper there is very little press, now that there is a possibility it will go away every news outlet and blogger want to write about it... The only hope is that FCA sees all the out cry and changes directions :-)

The press seems to focus on the Doom and Gloom of the Viper.... The car will kill you... Chrysler will kill the car... The car will burn your girlfriend's leg off... The car will bite you in the ass... Your right arm and left leg will look like Schwarzenegger's. That's all they seem to cover. At some point the people reading this stuff start to liken Viper ownership to a tour in Iraq.

[genVer]

At some point the people reading this stuff start to liken Viper ownership to a tour in Iraq.

:D that was hilarious!

[Rapidrezults]

What I think sucks is that for the life of the Viper there is very little press, now that there is a possibility it will go away every news outlet and blogger want to write about it... The only hope is that FCA sees all the out cry and changes directions :-)

Changes directions is the key point. It's on path to happen.

[ViperTony]

Changes directions is the key point. It's on path to happen.

It has to happen if the "Viper" is to continue it's legacy. The GenV platform has given all it can give. New direction, new design. Let's hope it will shock the automotive world, again.

[Rapidrezults]

It has to happen if the "Viper" is to continue it's legacy. The GenV platform has given all it can give. New direction, new design. Let's hope it will shock the automotive world, again.

Absolutely!

[ViperSmith]

It has to happen if the "Viper" is to continue it's legacy. The GenV platform has given all it can give. New direction, new design. Let's hope it will shock the automotive world, again.

There is just a lot of new technology out there and I think it is narrow minded of people to think it must always be in some "configuration" because of 1992. As long as it maintains the goal of kicking ass, then revolutionize it.

[sadil]

Ralph just recently became head of design at FCA. He will figure it out. As long as real car guys are involved with upper management, good things will happen. His influence on design at Dodge and FCA has kept them afloat for years.

[mikesax]

This car is a mechanical and architectural work of art from ANY angle IMO!!!!! Nothing quite like it!!!!!

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/mikesakosits/IMG_0272_zpszxuthnsd.jpg
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/mikesakosits/IMG_0268_zpsqtq8x09m.jpg
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/mikesakosits/IMG_0276_zpscuzqadtz.jpg

[wrh3]

The Viper is awesome, it just needs a GOOD marketing department behind it. The SRT drive event I went to when the Gen V was released sold me.....and then that went away.

[Rac10000]

The Viper is awesome, it just needs a GOOD marketing department behind it. The SRT drive event I went to when the Gen V was released sold me.....and then that went away.

Agreed. Almost impossible to even find one in my area to take on a test drive.

[Stealth]

[QUOTE=mikesax;171632]This car is a mechanical and architectural work of art from ANY angle IMO!!!!! Nothing quite like it!!!!!

+1!

Your car looks like mine except mine is yellow and black.

Like many here, I have owned many sports cars of many different types and the Viper stands alone at the top. I have driven even more different cars than I have owned and the ones I would consider as a "replacement" for my Gen V Viper are much more expensive, and usually prohibitively so (priced a Hurican or a 488 lately?). Even the far less powerful and 911-looks handicapped 991 GT3 and GT3 RS will realistically set you back $165k--195k. Further, when you move up into rare-air cars you further shrink the universe of places you can drive and park the car, thus decreasing the likely use.

The Viper has always been such an awesome masterpiece in this regard: exotic; yet durable and usable. Viper = Strong like Bull! The Gen V GTS with Laguna Leather, 18-speaker stereo, backup camera, infotainment, Carbon Fiber bits, Corsa tires, etc. addresses any fit, touch, luxury issues not covered in my Gen IV. One of my clients has 2 Ford GTs and investments aside, that is NOT a superior driving car to the Gen V, has no utility for weekenders and has serious overheating issues at the track.

No problem with me for the Gen VI Viper to make some changes so long as it keeps the dominating Viper spirit in mind! In the interim, I plan to keep the Gen V for the indefinite future. Thanks FCA!

[lochnessmonster]

It really is a PHENOMINAL automobile!! Cool article-HOWEVER there is NOTHING-I repeat NOTHING CHEAP about the interior of my 2 GTS's-also they SMELL MAHVELOUS!!! The Viper sound is "the Viper sound" though-unique and glorious 24/7 IMO!! I will have a third-that's for sure!! If there were no Viper's I'd probably own a corvette-BUT- in todays world "Corvettes are for people that CAN'T handle a Viper"-plain and simple!! I'm 5'11'-180 lbs-and my Viper's fit me "like a glove"!! Have seen a few Corvette people TRY to FIT in my Viper's and they TRULY can't enter and sit in a comfortable fashion!! The Viper truly is a race car you can drive on the street-I've logged about 38,000 miles in my 13-14-15 over the last 28 months-I drive them daily for most of the year-and TO ME they are the most COMFORTABLE cars I've ever owned!! Once I sat in my first Viper-my 2010 vert-I was hooked!! I felt like I was HOME!!! They are MORE comfortable than my Raptor and Range Rover-which RARELY get driven-mostly used in the dead of the Jersey winter!! TOO MUCH interior room-sounds ODD I know-but I LOVE being "tucked in" when I sit in my Viper's!! I TRULY feel like I am one with the car-that is such a GREAT feeling to me!! It doesn't hurt that I think it's the HOTTEST piece of machinery on the road either!! In any event-the original Cobra's kind of sold how our Viper's sold-and those who kept them SMILED for years after!! Another misunderstood ICON when it was available to purchase 50 years ago-similar to the Viper today IMO-so bring on the future-it's ALL GOOD!! I will continue to slip in to my Viper's one day at a time and smile for EVERY minute of EVERY mile-I couldn't think of a better way to get from point A to point B!!!

Well said.

[v10enomous]

The Dodge Viper Needs To Die

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-should-kill-the-viper-once-and-for-all-203559122.html

[CarolinaViper]

The Dodge Viper Needs To Die

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-should-kill-the-viper-once-and-for-all-203559122.html

One of the best articles about the Viper in recent time...he gets what the Viper is all about.

[Zybane]

Laugh, the same re-hashed drivel we've seen from a lot of these so-called Prius driving auto journalists:

And there were many problems. While your right leg would indeed no longer melt, it did still get rather toasty. To even it out, the side exhaust would deliver third-degree burns every time you tried to climb out—if you could get out.

The engine note retained a quality John Deere would approve of. The ride was as harsh as a go-kart. At over $120,000, the Viper was rather expensive when compared to, say, a Corvette Z06. And while there was now a quality navigation and radio in place, you couldn’t hear any of it because the noise within the cabin was so deafening it made your ears bleed. After 30 minutes, you wanted to get out. But as we’ve established, that’s not possible.

Ridiculous embellishments and hyperbole. And anyone who would say:

Johnny Sixpack, who looks purely at horsepower numbers and declares that “only an idiot would spend over $100,000 on a Viper when you can buy a more powerful Hellcat and a lifetime supply of Bud Light and still have money to spare” won’t get it.

Is a complete moron. Who cross shop's a super-car made for decimating the track with a heavy family car with a iron block supercharged engine designed for burnouts at your local red-neck strip?

[Coloviper]

Man what would the automotive community do if we did not discuss every detail on the Viper here first. 3/4 of that article is rehashed Viper speak from the 90s, opinions made in our forums and misquoted parts from stories we have told to ourselves in the club.

Taking all that into account, sure seems like WE are in control of the "info" that the "media" gathers and puts out there. Time to play the game and take charge of this thing.

Reality is Viper will die in 2017, but not before a hell of a 25th Anniversary model on the way out. We are talking about the GEN V Viper that is, but pretty sure it will shed its skin and emerge with GEN VI that is different. No more Ferarri shackles, no more baby budgets, no more marketing mishaps. Dodge can fix everything and it could be a halo for a changed company again. We can practically write all those future articles right now. The media is going to source there data here anyway.

[kdaviper]

Should I mention that the UAW contract does not specifically mention closing CAAP? Yes, there are no finalized plans for production at CAAP at this time, but the contract also states that there will be no reduction in labor force in the US.

[Bruce H.]

Good article...sort of. He predictably discusses exhaust note, foot well heat, burning sills, challenging egress and interior noise levels before eventually discussing what we all love about the car, and what makes it the only choice for many of us.

I think the cars virtues are very difficult to market, certainly using normal methods. If one of the car's greatest strengths and appeal is it's track performance, I wonder how many have been sold to other track rats that have seen them dominating lapping days everywhere. I've tracked my T/A out front regularly with two different groups for two years, answered countless questions and taken passengers, yet none of them have bought a Viper. I have track friends that have since bought different cars for their combined track and street use, and the many Porsche owners that I track with and have impressed continue to buy new Porsches like they're on sale for half price. Many others here track their Vipers also, whether on the road course or drag strip, and we're showcasing the car's performance every time we do.

Enthusiasts that don't track naturally place more importance on non-track features and this is where it becomes a tougher sale. Brand prestige becomes much more important at lofty price points and I think it was a mistake to move the Viper back under the Dodge brand. Lots of happy Dodge fans here, but don't expect buyers of Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Ferrari, ect to be attracted to the Dodge brand. I thought it was an incredibly poor move to slash the price by $15k which told the world that Dodge thought the car was over-priced, or undesirable enough to require a huge price adjustment.

If you think insufficient marketing is the issue then maybe they should have increased their marketing by $15,000 per vehicle instead of slashing the price. Sales since the price drop would suggest the price drop didn't work. Can't very well raise the price $15k now. I think they should have offered a sale price to move old stock rather than a permanent price reduction, and that would have avoided screwing up the resale market as well. Rant over.

I think if they want the Viper to sell in profitable numbers they need to redesign the car to be appealing to enthusiasts who could become first time Viper buyers, and if they want it to be exclusive and exotic they need to increase the price accordingly. The Viper faithful have mostly already bought their Gen V's, and small car tweaks at this point aren't going to make others run out to buy one. I have a $15k coupon I won't use because there's been no changes to attract me to a new purchase (ACR doesn't suit my needs). A next Gen almost certainly would, even though my coupon will have expired by then.

I know the V10 is at the core of the Viper's identity for those who have been into Vipers in the past, but it likely isn't for many new buyers. It wasn't a factor for me personally, but rather the car's performance, durability and reliability. I love a manual, but will definitely go DCT on my next purchase for track use. I'd prefer the look and function of active aero, and active suspension is practically a requirement in higher-end performance cars. Keep the hot sills and other quirks that practically define it as an exotic, those aren't drawbacks to me, but make the car modern and competitive for both track rats and the Viper's market segment.



I think that almost every enthusiast looking to buy a high performance track capable two-seater sports car in this price range (and is therefore a bona-fide prospective Viper buyer) is already aware of and has considered the Viper. It seems impossible to me that such a person isn't aware of it. He may not have seen, sat in or test driven one like was the case when I purchased mine, but he certainly could see one now if there is any level of interest. He'd likely check forums for competing cars where he'd find that there aren't many that can stand up to track duty like the Gen V, and would likely see the Viper referenced and eventually make his way to a Viper forum where he's find the Viper is a standout. The Viper has been around, and improved, for an awfully long time now. Buyers are aware of it.




The Dodge Viper Needs To Die

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-should-kill-the-viper-once-and-for-all-203559122.html

[Space Truckin]

" Brand prestige becomes much more important at lofty price points and I think it was a mistake to move the Viper back under the Dodge brand. Lots of happy Dodge fans here, but don't expect buyers of Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Ferrari, ect to be attracted to the Dodge brand. I thought it was an incredibly poor move to slash the price by $15k which told the world that Dodge thought the car was over-priced, or undesirable enough to require a huge price adjustment."

^^^this^^^ in a nut shell, Dodge has always been the 3rd of the big 3.

[kdaviper]

" Brand prestige becomes much more important at lofty price points and I think it was a mistake to move the Viper back under the Dodge brand. Lots of happy Dodge fans here, but don't expect buyers of Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Ferrari, ect to be attracted to the Dodge brand. I thought it was an incredibly poor move to slash the price by $15k which told the world that Dodge thought the car was over-priced, or undesirable enough to require a huge price adjustment."

^^^this^^^ in a nut shell, Dodge has always been the 3rd of the big 3.

iirc, 60% of 2013 MY Gen V sales were to conquest buyers.
Also, Jeep seems to have no problem snagging sales from "luxury" brands

[Bruce H.]

All 2013 and 2014 Vipers were built under the SRT brand, not Dodge. The point of SRT, at least in part, was to distance the Viper from the Dodge reputation and create a brand that was all about performance. But as it turned out Tim wanted and needed the Viper to enhance the Dodge brand, and the SRT, SRT Motorsports, and Ralph at the helm were no more.


iirc, 60% of 2013 MY Gen V sales were to conquest buyers.
Also, Jeep seems to have no problem snagging sales from "luxury" brands

[ViperSmith]

I personally don't get why the car isn't more of a success. There really isn't a whole slew of options in the ~100k range to choose from. Oh sure, you can buy a base 911 with no options and pleather seats. There is the GTR (which are being heavily discounted). You can buy a boat M5 if you want. You can get an M6 with a $130k MSRP for less than $100k because no one wants them as well. The C7Z has sold well, but the Corvette has a much stronger and longer history than all the others in the range.

But the fun starts again at the $160 range. The new NSX will be there, at $200 you have the 911tS, the new baby McLaren. At $150 you start to find fun used exotics.

At <= $75 there is a slew of fun stuff.

What are people shopping in the $100k bracket buying for performance?

[RedTanRT/10]

All 2013 and 2014 Vipers were built under the SRT brand, not Dodge. The point of SRT, at least in part, was to distance the Viper from the Dodge reputation and create a brand that was all about performance. But as it turned out Tim wanted and needed the Viper to enhance the Dodge brand, and the SRT, SRT Motorsports, and Ralph at the helm were no more.

SRT never built the brand, it takes tons of money and time. Tim said end this silly experiment (and infrastructure) and go back to call the Viper a Dodge, that's the brand everyone associates with Viper.


I personally don't get why the car isn't more of a success. There really isn't a whole slew of options in the ~100k range to choose from. Oh sure, you can buy a base 911 with no options and pleather seats. There is the GTR (which are being heavily discounted). You can buy a boat M5 if you want. You can get an M6 with a $130k MSRP for less than $100k because no one wants them as well. The C7Z has sold well, but the Corvette has a much stronger and longer history than all the others in the range.
But the fun starts again at the $160 range. The new NSX will be there, at $200 you have the 911tS, the new baby McLaren. At $150 you start to find fun used exotics.

At <= $75 there is a slew of fun stuff.

What are people shopping in the $100k bracket buying for performance?



It's been said over and over by many on these boards, the market has evolved and customers want an automatic transmission. Look at the auto/manual mix of premium sports cars from 50K to 300K, the mix is 80% to 100%. Go on autotrader and compare prices on auto/manuals in this segment, the sticks bring discounts.

Whether it was a market miscalculation, or a lack of funds to reconfigure the G4 chassis (to provide space clearance) and/or find a suitable trans, the result is lack of buyers. I'd bet an auto trans would have tripled '13 sales, gave the viper much more exposure and buzz, and solidified the business case.

[V10LEE]

They have been saying this since 1993.

Yeah this.

[ViperSmith]

SRT never built the brand, it takes tons of money and time. Tim said end this silly experiment (and infrastructure) and go back to call the Viper a Dodge, that's the brand everyone associates with Viper.





It's been said over and over by many on these boards, the market has evolved and customers want an automatic transmission. Look at the auto/manual mix of premium sports cars from 50K to 300K, the mix is 80% to 100%. Go on autotrader and compare prices on auto/manuals in this segment, the sticks bring discounts.

Whether it was a market miscalculation, or a lack of funds to reconfigure the G4 chassis (to provide space clearance) and/or find a suitable trans, the result is lack of buyers. I'd bet an auto trans would have tripled '13 sales, gave the viper much more exposure and buzz, and solidified the business case.

Agree with your assessment.

[CarolinaViper]

I personally don't get why the car isn't more of a success. There really isn't a whole slew of options in the ~100k range to choose from. Oh sure, you can buy a base 911 with no options and pleather seats. There is the GTR (which are being heavily discounted). You can buy a boat M5 if you want. You can get an M6 with a $130k MSRP for less than $100k because no one wants them as well. The C7Z has sold well, but the Corvette has a much stronger and longer history than all the others in the range.

But the fun starts again at the $160 range. The new NSX will be there, at $200 you have the 911tS, the new baby McLaren. At $150 you start to find fun used exotics.

At <= $75 there is a slew of fun stuff.

What are people shopping in the $100k bracket buying for performance?

Can't agree with you more. Its got to be the best value for anything $70 - $150 and unfortunately that may be its down fall. Its too expensive for the average Blue-collar worker (thus why the Hellcats are doing so well) and not expensive enough for the higher-end earners. Look at our professional athletes and celebrities do they want to be seen in a Dodge. Not everyone can can agree on what is value, but some make it based on their perceived social status. (ie women's shoes and pocketbooks). Growing up in the 70's (me that is) the Dodge car was a working person's car - didn't see to many wealthy people driving Dodge's. Dodge themselves might have seen the same view as this, might be why there is no Dodge moniker on the Gen Vs, which I think is a shame. I live in a very small town and people always think the car is a Vet. Which leads me to my second thought. How can GM sell thousands of ZO6s the price range is similar in cost to the Viper, what I mean by that is, those that can afford a ZO6 can more than likely afford the Viper, but choose not to. Figure this out and Viper can survive for many years to come.

[Bruce H.]

SRT never built the brand, it takes tons of money and time.

The SRT brand was built and they did spend tons of money to support it, and almost nothing since bringing it back under Dodge.

SRT marketed and promoted both the new brand and the Viper heavily starting with SRT Motorsports campaigning the Gen V in 2012 just ahead of its release, set up an SRT dealer network among Dodge dealerships with Viper trained techs, competed in 2013 and on to win the championship in 2014...and at the height of their success pulled the plug. Everybody knew Dodge made the Viper, but the SRT brand represented a new beginning of sorts for a car that they wanted people to know was new improved and above what the public expected from Dodge. SRT was a spinoff brand that could effectively differentiate its best vehicles from what the buying public came to expect from Dodge, and they had already given it the time and money needed to establish it. Everybody knew where to go to buy a Viper, and I can't see that bringing it back under the Dodge brand has helped it at all. I hope the marketing department didn't pin their hopes on being able to show a glimpse of the Viper in commercials promoting other Dodge vehicles.

[Rapidrezults]

SRT never built the brand, it takes tons of money and time. Tim said end this silly experiment (and infrastructure) and go back to call the Viper a Dodge, that's the brand everyone associates with Viper.

SR-whaaat? That's what everyone asks when you say the words SRT. Same thing happened when I owned "SVT" Cobras...while it's a great subtle delineation of a brand(performance division), it's an uphill battle to rebrand an entire line of vehicles into it's own accroynm. In theory it sounds great, in practicality, a miserable idea. Without a huge budget and a long, long term commitment you're just asking for confusion. Anyone with 100+k to burn is going to be diligent enough to get to the root of who actually makes a vehicle. On one hand you're asking for the lineage and history of the Viper name to carry through, on the other you're saying disregard all of that old Dodge stuff, we're entirely new now. Don't think Dodge didn't do their research to validate this failure after realizing it wasn't going to work.

The Dodge Viper has a defined personality, leaving very little margin for diversity in use. It does not appeal in majority to those seeking to increase their social status, which is what a majority of buyers in this segment are looking to do. Does it increase your testosterone status? Absolutely. At this price point, it is purely a car that appeals to those wanting to break out of a mold or stay consistent with a persona they identify with.(Radical, wild, brute, extreme) Does it feel strange to wear a suit and get out of your Viper for a business meeting? For me it would. Does the same notion apply to an R8, GTR, Porsche, Corvette, etc etc? Not in my opinion. The designs attract a more diverse buyer pool and while not as radical and awesome looking as the Viper, they can appeal to those not wanting to give off the 'extreme' vibe and still maintain an acceptable level of performance. Does your average wife sit in the Viper and feel like it increased her social status on Instagram? Nope. Does it make her feel like her husband just bought a mid-life crisis car? Yup. We seem to forget about that element when assessing the lack of sales. Those little(in some cases big) things we call Wifey's. Good thing mine doesn't run my checkbook. :) Heck, Ben Keating, the king of Vipers, had to invent a new suspension system to get his wife to want to take out the Viper over the ZR1. That says a lot.

There is a unique incongruency to the Viper not found in any other performance car that I am aware of. It is aesthetically consistent with the likes of Lamborghini, Ferrari and many other exotics but it does not poses the brand status. What you end up with is people just interpreting it as some type of toy/hobby or kit car. It's cool and fun, but not taken seriously enough to consider purchasing.

I love the Viper for everything it is, but I really think the lack of sales goes a lot deeper than adding a DCT or increasing horsepower.

[2snakes]

GM Would not have the Camaro have more horsepower than the Corvette.. Why would Dodge do that to the Viper.. Put a supercharger on the Viper and make 800 HP with 5 pounds of boost .. Lets be top dog again

[BlknBlu]

Looks like the Viper Nation failed in keeping the car alive. 500 units a year was not the goal.

Bruce

[RedTanRT/10]

Hey Chris, SRT as a separate franchise didn't make sense and that's why FCA folded it in. SRT as a model designation has done great. When you create a separate franchise you now have to support infrastructure like distribution, seperate staffing, marketing and a separate franchise agreement for the dealers and many other items. FCA also saw there was also customer confusion, look at a website like autotrader, there you had to use SRT as the Brand to find a viper, if you tried Dodge, you got nothing.

Most everyone knows AMG as a Mercedes. By the end of 2016 they will establish it as a separate brand, 20 plus years after they been building AMG badged models. Up till now it has always been a model, not a brand. Launching a separate brand is extremely costly and takes time to take roots and be profitable for both the OEM and their dealers. FCA tried it for two years and decided it wasn't working

here's a portion of an article in Automotive news this week. You'll read that they need to consolidate people and resources

FCA shuffle could cut squabbles, find successor

Automotive News
October 12, 2015 - 12:01 am ET
DETROIT -- A shuffling of top executives last week leaves Fiat Chrysler with one champion for cars in the U.S. and another for pickups, crossovers and SUVs -- instead of multiple brands fighting for attention and limited marketing resources.

The changes in the U.S. lineup also may shed light on the competition to succeed CEO Sergio Marchionne as head of operations in North America and possibly even as head of the parent company.

Dodge brand head Tim Kuniskis, 48, adds responsibility for the Chrysler and Fiat brands and was appointed to parent company Fiat Chrysler Automobiles' Group Executive Council, the global automaker's highest management body. In that capacity, he will serve as the champion for cars.

[ACRucrazy]

Looks like the Viper Nation failed in keeping the car alive. 500 units a year was not the goal.

Bruce

The Viper Nation failed no one. Dodge can't expect to sell 2000 Viper coupes a year. Make the convertible many wanted, which is too late IMO. By now the Gen V is "old news". A convertible and coupe version from day 1 would be a different story. If a Gen VI ever comes around I hope Dodge doesn't make the same mistake.

[Rapidrezults]

Hey Chris, SRT as a separate franchise didn't make sense and that's why FCA folded it in. SRT as a model designation has done great. When you create a separate franchise you now have to support infrastructure like distribution, seperate staffing, marketing and a separate franchise agreement for the dealers and many other items. FCA also saw there was also customer confusion, look at a website like autotrader, there you had to use SRT as the Brand to find a viper, if you tried Dodge, you got nothing.

Most everyone knows AMG as a Mercedes. By the end of 2016 they will establish it as a separate brand, 20 plus years after they been building AMG badged models. Up till now it has always been a model, not a brand. Launching a separate brand is extremely costly and takes time to take roots and be profitable for both the OEM and their dealers. FCA tried it for two years and decided it wasn't working

here's a portion of an article in Automotive news this week. You'll read that they need to consolidate people and resources

FCA shuffle could cut squabbles, find successor

Automotive News
October 12, 2015 - 12:01 am ET
DETROIT -- A shuffling of top executives last week leaves Fiat Chrysler with one champion for cars in the U.S. and another for pickups, crossovers and SUVs -- instead of multiple brands fighting for attention and limited marketing resources.

The changes in the U.S. lineup also may shed light on the competition to succeed CEO Sergio Marchionne as head of operations in North America and possibly even as head of the parent company.

Dodge brand head Tim Kuniskis, 48, adds responsibility for the Chrysler and Fiat brands and was appointed to parent company Fiat Chrysler Automobiles' Group Executive Council, the global automaker's highest management body. In that capacity, he will serve as the champion for cars.



Yup. I'm all for the designation. Funny you use the AMG analogy as that's exactly what came to mind for me.

[Trainerdave]

GM can sell a ton of Z06's at that price due to the fact that allot of vette owners are in their golden years(or close) very brand loyal, so it's corvettes or nothing, the problems it suffers have no effect on those people, who are usual cars and coffee guys , holding motor trend magazine , some are so brainwashed I'm convinced the would buy that car of it came with wood wheels.

[Newport Viper]

It's been said over and over by many on these boards, the market has evolved and customers want an automatic transmission. Look at the auto/manual mix of premium sports cars from 50K to 300K, the mix is 80% to 100%. Go on autotrader and compare prices on auto/manuals in this segment, the sticks bring discounts.

Whether it was a market miscalculation, or a lack of funds to reconfigure the G4 chassis (to provide space clearance) and/or find a suitable trans, the result is lack of buyers. I'd bet an auto trans would have tripled '13 sales, gave the viper much more exposure and buzz, and solidified the business case.


Mike has the bottom line right... ^^^^^^^ The Viper buyer has aged... Me included :(


At least they have the Viper at the OC AutoShow in CA.... Will that help... well fingers crossed....

No Vert and no Auto killed me off. I clutched several Vipers for 17+ years and 140,000 ++ miles....put up with all the Dodge dealer service bullshit... Enough was enough... I now have both with AMG (SLS) and couldn't be happier. It's "Viper" like with none of the issues. More money ...yes ...but prices are now climbing (2015 last year). I watched the market for 6-8 months before purchase. I have owned it for 7 months and the average price has gone up $9,000-12,000. (1837 coupes 884 roadster). If you have extra cash scoop one up now. Hopefully, the Viper does the same when they kill it shortly.I really miss my 1995 Viper!!


https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/12138590_1137024832993307_2575114070129853904_o.jp g

[donk_316]

I agree with the article.

Dodge killed off the Viper when it went full Hellcat. Never go full Hellcat.

[Bruce H.]

I'm not so sure the typical Corvette buyer is all that much different than the typical Viper buyer. In fact, it seems many have bought a Viper after owning Corvette(s) first. Maybe it was time for a change, maybe they put together the extra cash for one, or maybe the less practical Viper eventually fit into their expanded collection of vehicles. Either way, there are lessons for Dodge to learn from the success of the Corvette more than any other brand since Viper buyers mostly come from that same pool of buyers.

The Corvette appeal goes well beyond the availability of an auto or vert...it also offers the latest technology in performance, safety and features. Rev matching on the manual, magnetic dampers, electronic differential, cylinder deactivation yielding about 30 mpg on Stingray, Performance Data Recorder and video recorder for track rats, a mind blowing array of traction and stability control settings, and on and on. Viper has shunned technology and features forever, and that was definitely part of the appeal to many including myself...but we're a dying breed that are unable to support that Viper formula. That formula, while appealing to the few, hasn't been competitive for years, or maybe ever when you look at sales, and everyone must agree that its time is running out.

I think those who feel the Viper has to stick rigidly to its life-long formula are going to be the ones most disappointed with its future. The good news is you can still buy a brand new one now, and there will always be good used ones available with low mileage. I might keep my TA forever, appreciating its elemental nature as I drive and track it less and less as it ages, but the next performance car I buy will be thoroughly modern, full of the technology, performance and safety features. It will surely cost more than my TA, perform even better, and I won't care if it has a V10 NA or a V6 TT under the hood...it'll be all about performance. It would be great if it's a Viper, and if Dodge can make a business case for it maybe they'll get the green light to build it. But what is certain is that it will have to change substantially to survive, and there will always be other cars for buyers to choose from if it doesn't.

[DFox]

At the end of the day, whether the viper is killed or not... I for one will always own one. This is coming from someone who is a millennial and has owned 2 vipers now(Gen 4 ACR & Gen V TA 2.0).

I imagine from a P&L standpoint from the big wigs at Chrysler, they're thinking the recent success of hellcat and how to build it from here. I am sure the ACR success will tell all in the coming months. It's easier to look back and from the outside and say dodge dropped the ball heavily when introducing the Gen V... Oh well...

If they kill the viper. I imagine prices of the vipers will hold or increase. If they continue to pump them out just to get a return, I can see it hurting everyone. Time will tell...

[Clutch2014]

The Viper Nation failed no one. Dodge can't expect to sell 2000 Viper coupes a year. Make the convertible many wanted, which is too late IMO. By now the Gen V is "old news". A convertible and coupe version from day 1 would be a different story. If a Gen VI ever comes around I hope Dodge doesn't make the same mistake.

The "Viper Nation" complained loud, hard and long when the Gen V had its' pre-release driving events for the press. Over, among other things, fender gap. Fender freaking gap. I watched those threads unfold over on the VCA forums before that club pooped the bed, with profound disbelief.

Many of that same "Nation" now want to see the car die out again...and my question is, Why? Someone explain that to me, a fellow fan. Someone lay it out for me in no uncertain terms, and either confirm or deny the suspicions I'm really starting to harbor about this "Viper Nation."

[ViperSmith]

The "Viper Nation" complained loud, hard and long when the Gen V had its' pre-release driving events for the press. Over, among other things, fender gap. Fender freaking gap. I watched those threads unfold over on the VCA forums before that club pooped the bed, with profound disbelief.

Many of that same "Nation" now want to see the car die out again...and my question is, Why? Someone explain that to me, a fellow fan. Someone lay it out for me in no uncertain terms, and either confirm or deny the suspicions I'm really starting to harbor about this "Viper Nation."

Seems to be just a bunch of "good riddance" that it could disappear.

[Bruce H.]

Clutch,

I think when you have a car like the Viper with owners that are so obsessively passionate about, they are not the most open to the manufacturer changing the car, and for some for their pride and joy to no longer be the top dog any more. They may also feel so strongly about the legend of the car that they would rather see it axed than morphed into something quite different.

The previous Gen Toyota Supra owners were down on the latest iteration when it came out in 1993 (and went on to make their's practically worthless), Jaguar XK owners were highly critical of the F-Type that replaced their model at the top of the line, Corvette owners went mental over the new C7 losing the round tail lights, and the Porsche faithful go ape shit over any change at all.

And for most enthusiasts, the best one ever built is the one they own ;)

And then there are those that feel their car's value will increase if the car ends production...which is probably true.

[ViperJon]

The "Viper Nation" complained loud, hard and long when the Gen V had its' pre-release driving events for the press. Over, among other things, fender gap. Fender freaking gap. I watched those threads unfold over on the VCA forums before that club pooped the bed, with profound disbelief.
"

Yeah, how dare someone laying out 120K-145K at that time have the nerve to complain about bad fitment of body panels. The nerve! You've spent exactly nothing, come back when you have some skin in the game.

[Drummerviper]

If I could just get someone who could explain to me how it has lasted past 2010 when cars sat forever on lots and then comes a total throwback imagineless car with mediocre performance and ultimatley gets waxed by the high production Vette. I had one of the first deposits on a 2013. Then the intro of that car couldn't have been worse/embarrassing.

Don't get me wrong Gen 5 owners. You have a true American exotic that will always be a head turner , but it should have been so much more.

[viper_eddie]

I wonder if the Corvette forum guys get a kick out of these "Viper production will end" threads as we do from their defense of the Z06 issues!

[Bruce H.]

I wonder if the Corvette forum guys get a kick out of these "Viper production will end" threads as we do from their defense of the Z06 issues!

I know that many of the serious car enthusiasts and track rats among them are as sympathic to the challenges of the Viper as we are of theirs. Why would anyone get a kick out of their issues?

[Clutch2014]

Yeah, how dare someone laying out 120K-145K at that time have the nerve to complain about bad fitment of body panels. The nerve! You've spent exactly nothing, come back when you have some skin in the game.

Well, guess I'll start with you, since "skin in the game" means so much to you.

Yes. I don't have "skin in the game." However, I do have decent powers of observation. And when I look at different first drives and see this:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/11/29-2013-srt-viper-fd.jpg

And this:

13614

And this:

13615

And see the pretty awesome words attached to images like those...words that are appreciative of what the car is (or at the time, could be)...tell me, is it not disconcerting to go into a place where you would think people would be most welcoming of those images, and instead see them flipping the hell out because the cars don't look like pixel-for-pixel reproductions of the NY Auto Show car?

Do you know what us non-"skin-in-the-game"-having people call stupid BS like that? "First-world problems." And we don't do so with admiration, either.

When Grassroots Motorsports drove a Viper around for a week last year, they mentioned in the feature the stereotype that Viper drivers are "douchebags" - which was a new one to me when I read it, until I remembered those dumb topics. Then it made somewhat-depressing sense. Because, skin in the game or no, anyone who is going to flip the hell out over what ended up being a non-issue like that is no one I want to be around.

[Clutch2014]

Clutch,

And then there are those that feel their car's value will increase if the car ends production...which is probably true.

You're next, because this is a point I really want to address. Because, frankly, it pisses me off to no end.

You know what I like about the Viper? It's a world-beater that doesn't cost world-beater money. It's low-volume, it's hand-built, and there might be an air of exclusivity around it...but it's attainable. It's a dream car that can actually be yours...unlike a McLaren P1, for instance, or even a McLaren 650S.

Without waxing too much more eloquent about it, I don't want to see this marquee end up a Barrett-Jackson staple, where it's sold for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars, trailered away from the auction, and then stuffed into room-temperature-controlled garages to act as a line-item on someone's portfolio or a conversation piece. Super-specific examples that have the history to justify it? OK, sure. Jack the prices up. But for Gen Vs and Vipers in general? That's doing a car like that a great disservice, in my opinion.

Hmm...the more I think of it, the more it pisses me off. So, I'm just going to cut my thoughts there.

[C5Longhorn]

I wonder if the Corvette forum guys get a kick out of these "Viper production will end" threads as we do from their defense of the Z06 issues!

They don't want it to go away because if for no other reason, competition breeds a better product including Corvette.

Rick

[Vprbite]

P
Laugh, the same re-hashed drivel we've seen from a lot of these so-called Prius driving auto journalists:

And there were many problems. While your right leg would indeed no longer melt, it did still get rather toasty. To even it out, the side exhaust would deliver third-degree burns every time you tried to climb out—if you could get out.

The engine note retained a quality John Deere would approve of. The ride was as harsh as a go-kart. At over $120,000, the Viper was rather expensive when compared to, say, a Corvette Z06. And while there was now a quality navigation and radio in place, you couldn’t hear any of it because the noise within the cabin was so deafening it made your ears bleed. After 30 minutes, you wanted to get out. But as we’ve established, that’s not possible.

Ridiculous embellishments and hyperbole. And anyone who would say:

Johnny Sixpack, who looks purely at horsepower numbers and declares that “only an idiot would spend over $100,000 on a Viper when you can buy a more powerful Hellcat and a lifetime supply of Bud Light and still have money to spare” won’t get it.

Is a complete moron. Who cross shop's a super-car made for decimating the track with a heavy family car with a iron block supercharged engine designed for burnouts at your local red-neck strip?


All exotics are harder to get out of than a Camry. That's just due to design restrictions. But my girlfriend gets in and out of the car in a nice dress and heels just fine, and I have never had a problem getting in and out of the car and I have ONE EFFING LEG! So any auto journalist who says he can't get in and out of the car is just a useless schmuck.

[Vprbite]

It really is a PHENOMINAL automobile!! Cool article-HOWEVER there is NOTHING-I repeat NOTHING CHEAP about the interior of my 2 GTS's-also they SMELL MAHVELOUS!!! The Viper sound is "the Viper sound" though-unique and glorious 24/7 IMO!! I will have a third-that's for sure!! If there were no Viper's I'd probably own a corvette-BUT- in todays world "Corvettes are for people that CAN'T handle a Viper"-plain and simple!! I'm 5'11'-180 lbs-and my Viper's fit me "like a glove"!! Have seen a few Corvette people TRY to FIT in my Viper's and they TRULY can't enter and sit in a comfortable fashion!! The Viper truly is a race car you can drive on the street-I've logged about 38,000 miles in my 13-14-15 over the last 28 months-I drive them daily for most of the year-and TO ME they are the most COMFORTABLE cars I've ever owned!! Once I sat in my first Viper-my 2010 vert-I was hooked!! I felt like I was HOME!!! They are MORE comfortable than my Raptor and Range Rover-which RARELY get driven-mostly used in the dead of the Jersey winter!! TOO MUCH interior room-sounds ODD I know-but I LOVE being "tucked in" when I sit in my Viper's!! I TRULY feel like I am one with the car-that is such a GREAT feeling to me!! It doesn't hurt that I think it's the HOTTEST piece of machinery on the road either!! In any event-the original Cobra's kind of sold how our Viper's sold-and those who kept them SMILED for years after!! Another misunderstood ICON when it was available to purchase 50 years ago-similar to the Viper today IMO-so bring on the future-it's ALL GOOD!! I will continue to slip in to my Viper's one day at a time and smile for EVERY minute of EVERY mile-I couldn't think of a better way to get from point A to point B!!!

On long trips, my girlfriend sometimes falls asleep and she said it's because she finds the Viper "soothing" (her exact term) even with headers and corsa, she says that she feels so tucked in and held all safe and it relaxes her. My mother came along on one of our drives and she said the same thing. Thay the car held her so firmly and kept her in place that she preferred it to her Audi.

And I actually liked the interior of my Gen II GTS, for that matter. I didn't find it cheap and neither did anyone who rode in it. That was before I met my current girlfriend who is lovely and a wonderful girl, but when I had my Gen II GTS I was dating more superficial, shallow women, and even they used to compliment the interior. I don't see how anyone could bag that hard in the Viper interior, especially the new one. These...journalists, and I use that term in the loosest sense of the word, don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They wouldn't know a classy interior if it took a dump on their chest. And quite frankly I am sick of hearing their drivel written for morons.

**I have a theory they praise the corvette so much because there are millions of corvette owners who might stop buying their toilet paper, I mean magazine, if it said anything bad about the corvette. But bag on our Vipers and only 25000 people tops could cancel their subscription. Given the number of people who own more than one Viper and how many are wrecked, there may be more like 15,000 owners total. But millions currently own a vette. That's a bigger demegraphic so they stroke their little weenies with their trash writing. It's just a theory. But it's probably right.

: )

[ACR]

why is someone on viperalley claiming they went on a plan tour recently and heard from an iduividual there are big [good] things coming? I call bs

[darbgnik]

The "Viper Nation" complained loud, hard and long when the Gen V had its' pre-release driving events for the press. Over, among other things, fender gap. Fender freaking gap. I watched those threads unfold over on the VCA forums before that club pooped the bed, with profound disbelief.

Many of that same "Nation" now want to see the car die out again...and my question is, Why? Someone explain that to me, a fellow fan. Someone lay it out for me in no uncertain terms, and either confirm or deny the suspicions I'm really starting to harbor about this "Viper Nation."

When you say fender gap, do you mean where the hood meets the fender? Or people's fascination with having the rubber tucked tight against the fenders?



And I think Bruce is right, we are a dying breed who actually wants to drive the car ourselves. This latest instant gratification generation(which I'm on the high side of, but still a part of) would rather be faster at the touch of a button, and don't have the time or desire to actually develop any skill. InstaRacers?

[Vprbite]

Good point about the "instaracers" as you say. But some of these cars you don't even feel like you are going that fast because of all that technology. The GTR is fast but it's like a video game when driving it. My Viper is so much more fun.

[SADVIPER]

Regardlessof what happens, my Viper love will stay ever strong and passionate same as 2010 when production stopped. I'm enjoying my Viper.

[Viperawi]

Killing the viper? very unlikely .. Developing the viper? well that's always the case either if it is in 2017 or 2020 etc.

I am not against the developments, I believe no one is. Yes we might like the generation that we have and bought more than any upcoming new generation because it means more to us with all the memories but going against the going forward is not the right thing. As long as the viper can hold it's personality, any upgrade can be appreciated. And "viper personality" can be very subjective to owners, but if it is becoming a corvette, say a high selling units with mass production cheap interiors it will be going backwards. Also, if the viper is built as any other supercar, then why would someone actually consider one? it will be down to the looks and designs. But having the unique personalty, the rawness and engaging with the road all the time will give you that extra push to buy a viper. As stated above, it is the perfect car to develop your driving skills, and if you are an "instaracer" it is an open market after all.

And personally, I don't believe for one second that the performance of the viper is the issue in the first place for not achieving the selling targets if the numbers mentioned here are true. The main issue from where I see it is marketing. How many times I get pulled off just to be asked "what car is this man?" and they will be shocked it is not a ferrari. And each time I take someone to the SRT showroom to show him the viper, they will at least think of buying it and one of my friends just did.

And I quote the following:

"Marketing this hellion has always been a challenge. Unlike its rivals, the Viper has never enjoyed a stable corporate parent. The Chevrolet Corvette has been around so long it has its own museum. In the U.S., the Porsche 911 outsells the BMW 1-Series, Subaru BRZ, and Mazda MX-5 Miata. The Audi R8 has been marketed more than most Hollywood blockbusters, appearing in both Iron Man 1 and 3—not to mention in many more places, including its very own iOS game."

[SuperBird4404BBL]

From Autoweek

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/viper-cease-production-2017

[Dman]

This thread may go on longer than viper production does.

The viper is beta-max, technically superior at what it is designed to do, but out marketed, out hyped, out market shared, at every turn. There was a tremendous opportunity at the re-launch and it got effed up and I believe it was the cancer that sucked the life out of the brand. SRT thing was a blunder, the $140+k target was a blunder, the press cars were a blunder, handling of the press, everything, and that's asking the car to make up for a lot of human mistakes. My guess is the vert design was never approved because they knew the car was terminal by then & it was all too little too late. Now the ACR will go out & bash lap records and the world will talk about what a shame it is to lose it ... but how it's still so hot & rattley, and would be douchey to drive on the street, blah blah, in typical magazine fashion.

We can Monday morning quarterback it all day. If SRT hadn't split out, if they priced a GT equipped model with aero right at $99k and focused on perf, if they ran an ad, had test cars with matching tires, didn't piss off the press, blah blah... but based on the UAW post reference, we truly may be at the end of an era. Just sucks.

[Bill Pemberton]

Not clairvoyant, but still believe the answer will end up being quite simple, the Viper was no longer built due to the difficulty in meeting EPA mandates and we all know the engine is only certified through 2017. There is a point where FCA has to view the viability of continuing a car in the midst of continuing pressure and standards in all kinds of areas - EPA changes are not just with air quality standards. We can see , just using simple logic, that Ford is progressing with Eco everything, including the Ford GT, and there are folks out there as disturbed about a V6 in this car and not a V8. So we need to stop and wonder if the discontinuation is true condition of sales or other hypothesis, or just a case of too many mandated changes to go forth with a 8.4 liter beast? I truly believe that is the scenario, though I have no proof, but it seems to be the thought process with the automotive industry as a whole -- set forth by the Governments of the World.

[v10enomous]

Something has to go:

[X] EPA

[ ] Dodge Viper



Not clairvoyant, but still believe the answer will end up being quite simple, the Viper was no longer built due to the difficulty in meeting EPA mandates and we all know the engine is only certified through 2017. There is a point where FCA has to view the viability of continuing a car in the midst of continuing pressure and standards in all kinds of areas - EPA changes are not just with air quality standards. We can see , just using simple logic, that Ford is progressing with Eco everything, including the Ford GT, and there are folks out there as disturbed about a V6 in this car and not a V8. So we need to stop and wonder if the discontinuation is true condition of sales or other hypothesis, or just a case of too many mandated changes to go forth with a 8.4 liter beast? I truly believe that is the scenario, though I have no proof, but it seems to be the thought process with the automotive industry as a whole -- set forth by the Governments of the World.

[Coloviper]

The longer this goes on, the more chance it will have a Z06 motor in it. (ah.....that just hurts) Both the death talk and FCA merger discussions are ridiculous. Tired of both! Agree the EPA must go or be toned down in certain areas of their crusade.

I saw an interesting Dodge commercial yesterday with the Dodge Brothers doing donuts. At the end, the narrator said, "get them (Challangers, Chargers) before they are history". Might be more true than we like to believe. With the pending non V-8+ world that is at our doorstep, I suspect it will be the case for more than just the Viper. Now Viper only ever had a V-10 so downsize on cylinders is a tough sell, it would be an outright kill in many cases however Ford GT never came in non-V8 or (+), either so who knows. But Mustangs, Cameros, Vettes, etc. all did come with a V6 at some point so no biggie for them.

I just wish Dodge would say something. If it continues, then say it does but will be radically different and do not get comfortable with your cylinders. That statement would not hurt current sales. If it is a kill, then say it is but Dodge will make as many of them as people want before December 31st, 2017. Then it is a feeding frenzy to the end. Saleen did it with the S351R Mustangs in 1999 and that was an okay year for S351 Sales. If the end, Viper can do something which will ensure positive maximum sales through the end.

Though would suck for current owners. Drop the base price another $15k (everyone who ever bought a new Viper ,gets a $20k voucher situation) and pump out as many as you possibly can, since the engineering has already been paid for, factory set up, etc. . Get the absolute most out of the initial investment. Better to make a larger revenue bucket with more cars out than a bigger profit per car but much less cars. Either way do something Dodge but sitting there and saying nothing is not helping a damn thing. Stop talking to GM and start running your own business. While the Viper is in the noise level of the FCA, it is sure seems to show the heart of what is going on at that company.

[Clutch2014]

The longer this goes on, the more chance it will have a Z06 motor in it. (ah.....that just hurts) Both the death talk and FCA merger discussions are ridiculous. Tired of both! Agree the EPA must go or be toned down in certain areas of their crusade.

I saw an interesting Dodge commercial yesterday with the Dodge Brothers doing donuts. At the end, the narrator said, "get them (Challangers, Chargers) before they are history". Might be more true than we like to believe. With the pending non V-8+ world that is at our doorstep, I suspect it will be the case for more than just the Viper. Now Viper only ever had a V-10 so downsize on cylinders is a tough sell, it would be an outright kill in many cases however Ford GT never came in non-V8 or (+), either so who knows. But Mustangs, Cameros, Vettes, etc. all did come with a V6 at some point so no biggie for them.

I just wish Dodge would say something. If it continues, then say it does but will be radically different and do not get comfortable with your cylinders. That statement would not hurt current sales. If it is a kill, then say it is but Dodge will make as many of them as people want before December 31st, 2017. Then it is a feeding frenzy to the end. Saleen did it with the S351R Mustangs in 1999 and that was an okay year for S351 Sales. If the end, Viper can do something which will ensure positive maximum sales through the end.

Though would suck for current owners. Drop the base price another $15k (everyone who ever bought a new Viper ,gets a $20k voucher situation) and pump out as many as you possibly can, since the engineering has already been paid for, factory set up, etc. . Get the absolute most out of the initial investment. Better to make a larger revenue bucket with more cars out than a bigger profit per car but much less cars. Either way do something Dodge but sitting there and saying nothing is not helping a damn thing. Stop talking to GM and start running your own business. While the Viper is in the noise level of the FCA, it is sure seems to show the heart of what is going on at that company.

Dodge likely isn't saying anything right now because anything they could say can and will be used against them in a court of public opinion.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[wrh3]

Something has to go:

[X] EPA

[ ] Dodge Viper


^ This

[v10enomous]

Parting shots still coming in... Most car enthusiasts aren't all that into being "baked to death in hot ovens" last time I checked. So now they equate Viper ownership to Auschwitz. Nice!

http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-worst-cars-for-sitting-in-traffic-1737114633

[thetalonguy]

Parting shots still coming in... Most car enthusiasts aren't all that into being "baked to death in hot ovens" last time I checked. So now they equate Viper ownership to Auschwitz. Nice!

http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-worst-cars-for-sitting-in-traffic-1737114633

I saw that a couple of hours ago...As soon as I saw the top ten worst headline, I knew right away the Viper made the list. It's a shame the disrespect that the media loves to give.