Best headers and intake

[vipersick]

BEST headers and exhaust system for GTS 2013.
and intake.

[ViperPete]

Are you asking a question?

[vipersick]

yes i want to know?

[ViperPete]

yes i want to know?

Factory intake is proven best.
Belanger Long tube headers have proven best. I would say that pretty much anything is better than the factory exhaust manifolds, especially when you get rid of the cats.

Check:

www.viperexchange.com
www.theviperstore.com
www.jtsvp.com

All those vendors can help you out with pricing and availability.

[vipersick]

belanger OR AMRCAN RACING ?

[Steve M]

belanger OR AMRCAN RACING ?

Personal preference...both will make around the same gains on the dyno. Personally, I like the way the Belangers sound over American Racing Headers...Belangers use coated aluminized steel with a tri-y design, and the ARH headers are stainless with a 5-into-1 merge. The material choice and collector design both have an impact on sound.

In this case, take your pick...lots of people around here running one or the other. I'm sure they'll chime in with their experience.

[Dman]

Fortunately you're asking a simple question and you won't have much deliberating to do.

Like above, IMO, only 2 choices on headers, ARH or Lou Belangers. Personally I've been using Belangers since '99 on 4 vipers now, including my gen5, perf is apples to apples, although I'm sure both would argue superior design, lol. I'm sure ARH is great, they work with SRT and I've never seen anything but stellar reports and I'd not hesitate to buy them, but I'm a Belanger loyalist from my history with it, I had a simple question the other day & Lou spent 45 mins on the phone with me giving so much wisdom I wanted to take notes. Hiflow cats with both of course.

As stated, don't change anything on the intake, even the filters, not worth the $ or the hassles you'll get.

Catback is probably only deliberation you'll have. Full belanger is loud and nasty, too loud for me, not loud enough for others. I did belanger and stock catback, if I were to change catback I'd go Corsa, I've had Corsa twice and the tone really ensures no drone and although nice & loud it's a pitch that doesn't hurt the ears on the highway. I had the Aero which sounded great but the tone after an hour on the highway would start to create fissure in my skull.

Call the references above, talk to ARH and Lou and get their pitches; Mark and JonB are awesome guru's to talk these thru and have tons of combo experience and very supportive before and after your purchase.

You should think about an Arrow PCM if you do the exhaust, not required, but it made a world of difference on my car and others.

Enjoy.

[vipersick]

Thanks :) Now i know what is the defense betweens two.
I am asking because this car not like other car many exhaust system they have and many people have exhaust expect this car and no videos or review for that things.

[Rapidrezults]

Instead of an intake, put your money into an intake heat shield. Money well spent.

[pdv25]

Instead of an intake, put your money into an intake heat shield. Money well spent.

I think I'm the only one who runs the K&N intakes. No one seems to like it.

[Nine Ball]

Thanks :) Now i know what is the defense betweens two.
I am asking because this car not like other car many exhaust system they have and many people have exhaust expect this car and no videos or review for that things.

Here is a video of my '14 with American Racing headers, no cats, and Corsa catback. It is loud, but no drone when freeway cruising.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Nt2npJSJY

[vipersick]

now i know i will change my headers and cats i will keep my stock cat back and i will change the filter only and tune that is :)

[ACRucrazy]

That's why you win all the races PDV..

[Nine Ball]

I think I'm the only one who runs the K&N intakes. No one seems to like it.

I have one sitting here in a box. Want to do a dyno before/after though, same day.

[Rapidrezults]

I think I'm the only one who runs the K&N intakes. No one seems to like it.

I didn't know that. In that case I'm ordering one right now! Lol. Your kills speak to your mods!

[viper04]

I think I'm the only one who runs the K&N intakes. No one seems to like it.
I like it also. I guess it's just you and me.

[Rapidrezults]

OP, for great sound clips of Belangers with different combos check out this video library:

https://www.youtube.com/user/mjorgensen99/videos

[viper04]

I have one sitting here in a box. Want to do a dyno before/after though, same day.
If you can that would be good. I know Torrie had done a test with it and pick up some HP, using the HP tuner. Maybe that's the missing ingredient needed to make it work. Please let us know what you find. Thanks.

[vipersick]

with header and corsa catback not loud for crusing but in thigh rpm it will be loud

[Steve M]

I have one sitting here in a box. Want to do a dyno before/after though, same day.

You'll also need to monitor IATs while cruising and WOT (look for recovery time on this one - i.e. how long it takes for the temps to drop with a massive inrush of air) for both to get the complete picture.

[Nine Ball]

You'll also need to monitor IATs while cruising and WOT (look for recovery time on this one - i.e. how long it takes for the temps to drop with a massive inrush of air) for both to get the complete picture.

I have the Shelby heat shield to install, as well. I wonder if the K&N even works with that?

[pdv25]

That's why you win all the races PDV..


I didn't know that. In that case I'm ordering one right now! Lol. Your kills speak to your mods!

That's been my trick lol!!


I have the Shelby heat shield to install, as well. I wonder if the K&N even works with that?

The kit comes with a metal shield under the intakes. The AIT always have a 5-7 degree delta from ambient air. When your at idle the AIT quickly go up, but when you move it quickly drops. I did have a CEL (p0068) manifold pressure, throttle position correlation. I happened twice since I got the intakes back in November. I disabled that code with HP tuners. I may happen to you since you're running the arrow?

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy353/pdv1976/20150707_215815_zpsawzfceu3.jpg

[viper04]

I have the Shelby heat shield to install, as well. I wonder if the K&N even works with that?
My guess would be no, It sit a little bit difference than the stock airbox, but Tony do you have the Arrow PCM? I think one of the reason why there were a lot of limp mode and bad dyno numbers using the K&N is that the Mopar PCM did not disable the "Air flow rationality monitors" like the updated Arrow PCM. One of the updates Arrow did that allow changes to air cleaner duct and filter. Steve M can chime in on this. I know some car are or seem to be more sensitive to more air flow. None the less it would be a good test to see. Maybe I can do it when I get sometime.

Here is a picture from ACRucrazy hope its ok to post it, but you can see with the Arrow updated PCM the 3 features offer with the update.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/8915-Arrow-Gen-IV-Race-Controller-Installed

[Steve M]

The kit comes with a metal shield under the intakes. The AIT always have a 5-7 degree delta from ambient air. When your at idle the AIT quickly go up, but when you move it quickly drops. I did have a CEL (p0068) manifold pressure, throttle position correlation. I happened twice since I got the intakes back in November. I disabled that code with HP tuners. I may happen to you since you're running the arrow?


Interesting...there are some guys having throttle related issues with PD blowers on other Mopar products, and I ended up coming across this on the HPT forum:


The problem is that the code uses pressure differential across the throttle to achieve sonic flow. The problem is that when you put a supercharger between the throttle and the MAP sensor as soon as the blower starts making any boost the throttle will want to go wide open to satisfy the sonic flow equation.

Makes me wonder if the Venom PCM uses a similar scheme to determine whether or not the air is flowing as it should.

These cars are incredibly sensitive to changes in the intake tract - with airflow rationality disabled on mine, my car still went into limp mode when I removed the hood scoop rain shield. Based on the limited data I have, it appears that the MAF sensors had a pretty decent delta between the two (like a 4 lb/min difference) when it went into limp mode. Lots of checks and balances in these PCMs.

[viper04]

You'll also need to monitor IATs while cruising and WOT (look for recovery time on this one - i.e. how long it takes for the temps to drop with a massive inrush of air) for both to get the complete picture.
Steve M
This was one of the reason I keep it on the car. I did not plan to keep it on the car but just use it for car show to look nice LOL! but with the Gen V you can monitor the IAT in the dash and at cruise it runs about 5 to 8 degree above ambient air temp and it would recover twice as fast as the stock air box and always runs cooler.

[ViperGeorge]

Word of caution on header install. The upstream O2 wires run very close to the header and can melt if not properly insulated. I have a ton of insulation on mine and DEI heat shields on the header pipes. However, I still worry the wires or connector will melt at some point. I have been toying with the idea of running the wires under the frame with some kind of skid plate in front of them to protect them from road debris. I know a few folks have melted the wires already. In fact the connectors got crisp. Woodhouse will insulate the wires when they install Bellangers but I don't know if others know to do this. The headers are also real close to the starter and wires. Not sure if this is a problem or not.

Gen 4s with headers would often melt the rear O2 wires because of how close they are to the exhaust in the side sill. The Gen 5 has a bit more room in the sill and you don't even need to install the downstream O2s if you have the Arrow controller. Just use a threaded plug or install an old O2 and don't connect the wires.

[mjorgensen]

BEST headers and exhaust system for GTS 2013.
and intake.

I always have the Belanger headers and exhaust in stock, I have sold close to 80 sets of them for the GenV alone. I know PVD is FAST! But I still stand by SRT and Dick Winkles recommendation of maintaining the stock air box because it is a true ram air design and the K&N does not seal to the hood.

Thanks,

[pdv25]

I always have the Belanger headers and exhaust in stock, I have sold close to 80 sets of them for the GenV alone. I know PVD is FAST! But I still stand by SRT and Dick Winkles recommendation of maintaining the stock air box because it is a true ram air design and the K&N does not seal to the hood.

Thanks,

It's fast because it's a Woodhouse viper! ;)

[mjorgensen]

It's fast because it's a Woodhouse viper! ;)

Shhhh :-)

[DZnutz]

I always have the Belanger headers and exhaust in stock, I have sold close to 80 sets of them for the GenV alone. I know PVD is FAST! But I still stand by SRT and Dick Winkles recommendation of maintaining the stock air box because it is a true ram air design and the K&N does not seal to the hood.

Thanks,

Special discount for us board members???

[mjorgensen]

Special discount for us board members???

I have special pricing when we do the installs, I have decent discounts for mail orders whether you are a forum member or not (I try to be fair priced to everyone). I'm not an online mail order store so won't/can't give stuff away maybe that's why there are no "Thanks Mark" threads lol. I am always available on email, txt or the phone around the clock to help anyone so I think that is worth something to our customers (I hope anyways). Belanger's are worth every penny of retail so small discounts are ok, but I will not diminish product values of great parts just to steal a sale.

If you want some I have them and I think you will feel good about the purchase in the end, sorry for the long winded answer, I could have just said yes and posted a price I suppose, but I'm a talker :-)

[USCDOC]

Well I LOVE my Corsa you installed. Price for install and parts were better than I could get here in Cali. You're knowledge of the products are priceless too. I've never had such an awesome customer service. So "thanks Mark!"

[Dman]

I didn't know that. In that case I'm ordering one right now! Lol. Your kills speak to your mods!

Haha, PDV's kills speak to his other mod ... Driver Mod.

[pdv25]

Haha, PDV's kills speak to his other mod ... Driver Mod.

HAHA!! :dude3::car-smiley-003:

[KB Viper]

i have stock intake with K&N drop in filter. i had the agency performance intake with smooth tubes and lost 4hp on back to back runs on the dyno. I have american racing headers with cats & stock mufflers and have no complaints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zha5iP0Nfbc

[Voice of Reason]

I'm very happy with my AR Headers, cats, and stock catback. I believe Roanoke has some of these headers in stock still so give them a call.

[ViperPete]

Has anyone wrapped Viper headers before?

I coated and wrapped the headers on my Avenger and the difference in underhood temps is way lower than before.

I know when I eventually get headers i'll wrap them, even if they don't look as pretty.

Its not like you can see the headers on a Viper really anyway.

[ViperGeorge]

Has anyone wrapped Viper headers before?

I coated and wrapped the headers on my Avenger and the difference in underhood temps is way lower than before.

I know when I eventually get headers i'll wrap them, even if they don't look as pretty.

Its not like you can see the headers on a Viper really anyway.

Wrapping them is not advised. The metal goes to hell. I spoke with Bellanger about this and he is adamant that you don't wrap them.

[ViperPete]

Wrapping them is not advised. The metal goes to hell. I spoke with Bellanger about this and he is adamant that you don't wrap them.

The metal goes to hell?

What kind of metal are they using? What thickness? If they are ceramic or jet-hot coated beforehand, I don't understand why a header wrap would corrode or melt the tubes.

[KB Viper]

mine are coated. American racing also do not recommend wrapping.

[Strykerviper2014]

I have the HP tuner and K&N ordered from torrie, hoping on good results!!!

[Viperawi]

I have special pricing when we do the installs, I have decent discounts for mail orders whether you are a forum member or not (I try to be fair priced to everyone). I'm not an online mail order store so won't/can't give stuff away maybe that's why there are no "Thanks Mark" threads lol. I am always available on email, txt or the phone around the clock to help anyone so I think that is worth something to our customers (I hope anyways). Belanger's are worth every penny of retail so small discounts are ok, but I will not diminish product values of great parts just to steal a sale.

If you want some I have them and I think you will feel good about the purchase in the end, sorry for the long winded answer, I could have just said yes and posted a price I suppose, but I'm a talker :-)

vipersick, send Mark an email, he will do the rest ! Great communications, fast and clear responses. The best prices too. "Thanks Mark" is just not enough lol.

As for the questions, I do prefer the belanger over ARH as it has always been a viper thing over the last generations. No intake needed, the stock is perfect.
And yes, get the Arrow PCM from Mark as well.

Good luck, Mowafaq habibi o mabrook el Viper : )

[G37Sam]

The ARH vs Belanger debate can only end with a proper "rev off"

Then a Corsa vs ARH Uproar rev off.

Those of you running headers with stock mufflers, is it too raspy or restrictive? Aftermarkets are all 3" I believe.

[Herrsss]

I put Corsa catbacks and Belanger headers on my '08 roadster several years ago expressly to avoid mind numbing drone especially when the top is down which is most of the time. This ended up being one of my better decisions for the car!!

[donk_316]

I don't understand why the viper community has such a hard on for a torque based header design, for an engine that is already torque heavy.

The ARH header just seems like the logical choice for this engine.

[mjorgensen]

I don't understand why the viper community has such a hard on for a torque based header design, for an engine that is already torque heavy.

The ARH header just seems like the logical choice for this engine.

The only real way to prove the benefits of the Belanger's is to do 2 cars that start out stock with equal power and even roll runs, then install each header and Arrow PCM, I have heard this done once by a real ARH fan that swore they were the best choice, well he left the Belanger's on the car and that said it all IMO. Torque wins races, the faster you get to speed the more speed you can achieve in a lower amount of time and distance. BUT we can debate it all day long, dynos don't tell the whole story that's all I know.

[FLATOUT]

I don't understand why the viper community has such a hard on for a torque based header design, for an engine that is already torque heavy.

The ARH header just seems like the logical choice for this engine.

The Arrow stage 1 and stage 2 heads and cam ECU calibrations were done with ARH Headers on the car. I prefer stainless over coated mild steel headers. Just our opinion at ViperExchange but we run ARH on 95% of our customers cars due to Arrow using them while tuning their PCM's. I personally dyno'd on my ACR 3 different header brands on the same dyno, and they were all almost even. ARH's made 10 more HP the two Tri Y brands made a few more ft lbs of torque.

You honestly can't go wrong with any of them. I have 15 sets of full ARH exhausts in stock ready to ship.

Also agree with Dick, and Mark leave the intake alone. Gains are minimal and IAT's rise during the pull due to not being sealed. IAT's fall during the pull with the sealed factory box.

[Jack B]

That is not the issue. The wrap exacerbates failure due to metal fatigue. This is caused by an extension of the heat-cool cycle.



The metal goes to hell?

What kind of metal are they using? What thickness? If they are ceramic or jet-hot coated beforehand, I don't understand why a header wrap would corrode or melt the tubes.

[Jack B]

Just a guess, but, the Balengers probably save ten lbs a side and it is above the CG which makes the reduction even more important.

[FLATOUT]

Just a guess, but, the Balengers probably save ten lbs a side and it is above the CG which makes the reduction even more important.

All three brands reduce weight over the stock 4 cat systems. Definitely a nice extra benefit.

[Jack B]

However, the Balengers save more, correct? What is the weight of the ARH setup.


All three brands reduce weight over the stock 4 cat systems. Definitely a nice extra benefit.

[FLATOUT]

However, the Balengers save more, correct? What is the weight of the ARH setup.

I'll try to weigh them, installing a full Balenger set for a customer now. Balengers uses a smaller bullet style muffler ARH uses a larger muffler. That would most likely be the biggest difference.

[Jack B]

See if you can weigh them both without the muffler, that will be the best gauge.


I'll try to weigh them, installing a full Balenger set for a customer now. Balengers uses a smaller bullet style muffler ARH uses a larger muffler. That would most likely be the biggest difference.

[FLATOUT]

See if you can weigh them both without the muffler, that will be the best gauge.

I'll do my best :)

[Stealth]

I have special pricing when we do the installs, I have decent discounts for mail orders whether you are a forum member or not (I try to be fair priced to everyone). I'm not an online mail order store so won't/can't give stuff away maybe that's why there are no "Thanks Mark" threads lol. I am always available on email, txt or the phone around the clock to help anyone so I think that is worth something to our customers (I hope anyways). Belanger's are worth every penny of retail so small discounts are ok, but I will not diminish product values of great parts just to steal a sale.

If you want some I have them and I think you will feel good about the purchase in the end, sorry for the long winded answer, I could have just said yes and posted a price I suppose, but I'm a talker :-)

Thanks Mark! For the Arrow PCM!