How many TT Gen V's out there now?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Post here if you're one of them..

I have built and sent a few to the Middle East at this point, but how many are in the USA? How many are using the stock PCM?

Just curious as I've been over in the Corvette world the last few months...

[ViperPete]

I saw a Orange TA Twin Turbo a few months ago here in Ocala FL at Burnyzz Shop.

[rlhay2]

but how many are in the USA? How many are using the stock PCM?


Isn't the stock PCM restricted to some ridiculously low level of boost?
Can't find anything definitive but I heard a threshold near 6psi is the max.

[EdwardETraylorIII]

rlhay,

Absolutely not. Rumor.

[PaulP]

You have videos of the cars you built or pics ?

[Junkie]

Also would love to see videos of these stock PCM cars actually out and working.

My nitrous car has been hard to out run, even by the TT cars at events.

[rlhay2]

Absolutely not. Rumor.

What is the max possible boost using the OEM PCM?

And what software or equipment was used to make this possible?

[slowhatch]

Also would love to see videos of these stock PCM cars actually out and working.

My nitrous car has been hard to out run, even by the TT cars at events.

Don't sell it!

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Junkie, I've never been really big on pics or videos... This thread really isn't about me. I'm just curious what's going on in the Gen V world as I've been living under a rock the last few months doing development work on the C7Z platform...

rlhay2, max boost I've run is 18 PSI and no other equipment necessary other than HP Tuners....

[Steve M]

Junkie, I've never been really big on pics or videos... This thread really isn't about me. I'm just curious what's going on in the Gen V world as I've been living under a rock the last few months doing development work on the C7Z platform...

rlhay2, max boost I've run is 18 PSI and no other equipment necessary other than HP Tuners....

Question: how were you able to get around the protected calculated actual torque tables that have caused issues with the throttle response tuning? It is my understanding that this table also has an impact on forced induction applications...

[rlhay2]

rlhay2, max boost I've run is 18 PSI and no other equipment necessary other than HP Tuners....

Very interesting.

The low boost info came from three separate tuners using HPTuners.
I'll continue to await more definitive info before I decide which direction to go with this car.

[Steve M]

Very interesting.

The low boost info came from three separate tuners using HPTuners.
I'll continue to await more definitive info before I decide which direction to go with this car.

I've heard the same, but if he/they are working directly with HPT engineers, they might be testing a workaround solution that hasn't been made public through a new beta release.

[viper04]

Question: how were you able to get around the protected calculated actual torque tables that have caused issues with the throttle response tuning? It is my understanding that this table also has an impact on forced induction applications...

+1 to this answer, would also like to know.

[EdwardETraylorIII]

It's not a new solution guys. It just takes an seasoned tuner who knows the HPT *and* Gen V platform inside and out.

Steve, you ask very valid questions - and how we got around those limitations is the secret in the secret sauce. :)

[Steve M]

Next question: is your solution implemented with HPTuners alone, or HPT + something else (hardware or software)?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Steve, only HPT (and a LOT of experience and proprietary/intimate knowledge of the Venom2 controller that I don't believe anyone else has).

[Steve M]

Intriguing.

[G37Sam]

Sent to the Middle East??? Tell me more :D

[vegasgtr]

Ed,
That sounds awesome.Maybe you can make a tuner budget blower Centri for us. I think the majority of people are looking for a bolt on kit making 8-9 psi on stock ECU.

Any pics of the car you have for sale BTW ?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Vegas,

I only do TT setups. No blowers coming from me. If you are interested in my personal car I can snap some pics for you. Just PM me.

[vegasgtr]

Vegas,

I only do TT setups. No blowers coming from me. If you are interested in my personal car I can snap some pics for you. Just PM me.

what are you charging for a TT setup on stock ECU looking for 800 On pump.

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Vegas, basic kit like what you want (but is capably of 1,000 rwhp on e85) starts around $27K depending on options.

[ANTI_LAG]

Threads like this are exactly why people get screwed over so much, kind of alot of vaporware being sold right here, I would think someone who was so talented to get FI working via HPtuners (with E85!) on the Gen 5 and selling such a value driven kit would surely have media proving his accomplishments....

It honestly sounds like your trying to sell a product that's very well unproven or not even a reality at this point, I hope we don't see another thread soon about another owner falling victim to buying in to broken promises...

[Disturbed]

Ed knows his stuff...that's all I can say without a visit from some very un-kind people.

If anyone doesn't think he's being truthful. Feel free to stop by for a ride.

[Rapidrezults]

Post here if you're one of them..

I have built and sent a few to the Middle East at this point, but how many are in the USA? How many are using the stock PCM?

Just curious as I've been over in the Corvette world the last few months...

This is creative sales at it's best. Perfect way to lead into your sales pitch for making stock PCMs work. I don't doubt you know your shit, but it is what it is.

[vegasgtr]

Threads like this are exactly why people get screwed over so much, kind of alot of vaporware being sold right here, I would think someone who was so talented to get FI working via HPtuners (with E85!) on the Gen 5 and selling such a value driven kit would surely have media proving his accomplishments....

It honestly sounds like your trying to sell a product that's very well unproven or not even a reality at this point, I hope we don't see another thread soon about another owner falling victim to buying in to broken promises...

I know where you are coming from.. I have been all over all the forums.. GTR, Vettes, Lambos, 6 speed. EVERY builder shows us something when talking about building a product. heck if anything it helps the person that is selling the item.

People like to see the actual kit.
People Like to see the Dyno Numbers
People like to see and hear the car on the road
People like to see ET and trap speeds.
People like to see what they are thinking about getting.
People Like to know what they are getting.

Ed , why not share the above pictures ? Its not like no one has made TT kits.

Just my .02 cents .

[EdwardETraylorIII]

This is creative sales at it's best. Perfect way to lead into your sales pitch for making stock PCMs work.

L.O.L.

This place is almost as good as the corvette forum....... Yes, I can tune the stock pm with boost but that isn't what this darn thread is about... I asked a simple question! If you can't add value, them gtfo of my thread!

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Vegas, because I'm not here selling anything!

[ANTI_LAG]

Vegas, because I'm not here selling anything!

But you are claiming, matter of fact, you claim alot... So naturally people want to see proof, so why not provide that? You go from paying to have a car built that is suppossed to be the highest power back then, then you sell it, now your a kit manufacturer and doing tuning that no one else has been able to do, but have had 0 proof of any of it, kind of weird right?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

AntiLag, did you just say I paid to have a car built?? Do tell!!

[EdwardETraylorIII]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2iKKT7YE60&feature=em-upload_owner#action=share

[EdwardETraylorIII]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA5IJphTKdM&feature=em-upload_owner#action=share

[ANTI_LAG]

But where is the 1000whp stuff at Ed?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Lol! I just prove my statements that I'm tuning boost with stock venom2 controllers using nothing but HPT and you are still a critic! Love it! Bring the hate!

[vegasgtr]

Lol! I just prove my statements that I'm tuning boost with stock venom2 controllers using nothing but HPT and you are still a critic! Love it! Bring the hate!

Thanks Ed!
Awesome video. Car looks like it pulls hard on only 4psi!

Ed, In the video you are saying 4psi, was that an older video and now you figured out higher boost levels?

[pdv25]

Great read. Pass the popcorn please lol.

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Vegas, yes, we have taken the stock computer to 18 PSI.

[ViperJon]

Just joined, three posts and already on the attack. AE much?

[vegasgtr]

Vegas, yes, we have taken the stock computer to 18 PSI.

Bad ass! Man i need boost ! My car feels slow in this vegas weather!

[rlhay2]

If anyone doesn't think he's being truthful. Feel free to stop by for a ride.

Got an address?
I'd be glad to stop by Georgia/Florida and check it out!

[ANTI_LAG]

Lol! I just prove my statements that I'm tuning boost with stock venom2 controllers using nothing but HPT and you are still a critic! Love it! Bring the hate!

Might be that I know the requirements of making a stock ecm handle 4.5psi at 700HP are much different then a stock ecm handling enough boost to make 1000whp on E85 (what you claim), after all, at least im not digging for proof of your 2000whp Gen V on your corvette forum sig lol.

I think that if your gonna say you can build turbo kits and tune with the stock ecu and offer it as a service/product in a community that has been plagued with companys screwing people over for large amounts of money, a little transparency to the public would be a good thing, you would agree right?

[EdwardETraylorIII]

ALag,

I'm really not worried about your concerns. What have you done for the Viper community?

Regarding the 2000 WHP Viper in my sig, thanks for reminding me. I sold that project (If you need a Billet Block, give Toddy a call!) - I need to remove it!


Might be that I know the requirements of making a stock ecm handle 4.5psi at 700HP

I'd conjecture that you don't know d!ck about the stock pcm.

[Magnus]

Good stuff!

- Keith@HP Tuners

[Steve M]

Well hmmmm...still scratching my head on how you got around some of the known issues with the Venom PCM, but the proof is in the pudding (or the video in this case).

[rlhay2]

but the proof is in the pudding (or the video in this case).

Not yet. The claim was was 18lbs of boost on E85.

The vids were at ~4.5lbs. And truthfully that was not shown but just stated during the video.
Popular conjecture is that the Venom ECU cannot handle boost pressures above ~6psi, this still has yet to be disputed.

You can hear the turbos in the vid, so I have no doubt they are installed on the car.
A dyno vid showing boost and hp would be greatly beneficial.

As I would truly love to have an OEM solution for forced induction, I am hoping that someone resolves this soon!

To date, there is 1 claim but still no proof of an OEM ECU successfully running more than 6psi on the Venom controller.

[Bmw2nv2000]

Damn I want to buy a gen V more than ever now and personally deliver it to Ed for this install!!!! I'll take 800-900 rwhp all day long

[Roddy]

What does 1 psi of boost translate into on a 8.4L V10 in terms of horsepower?

Also OP what size (mm) turbos do you run? Thanks

Im familiar with some other boosted applications but not much on the Vipers. I'm surprised 4-4.5psi gets you to 700hp, in a good way

[Darius]

11703

[vegasgtr]

What does 1 psi of boost translate into on a 8.4L V10 in terms of horsepower?

Also OP what size (mm) turbos do you run? Thanks

Im familiar with some other boosted applications but not much on the Vipers. I'm surprised 4-4.5psi gets you to 700hp, in a good way

all depends on the size of the turbo. a 52mm pushing 10psi will equal aprox 5psi of a 67MM.

[Disturbed]

Got an address?
I'd be glad to stop by Georgia/Florida and check it out!


I'll let Ed give it to you. I don't give out personal info on the net.

[rlhay2]

I'll let Ed give it to you. I don't give out personal info on the net.

And "The Shell Game" continues...

You stated:

If anyone doesn't think he's being truthful. Feel free to stop by for a ride.

Which I was glad to accept. Yet now, you rescind your offer.

This is not the best way to sustain a small business in a tightly networked community.

[XSnake]

I'll let Ed give it to you. I don't give out personal info on the net.

Bobby, I can swing by at some point next week. I already know the way.

[City]

Ed,

You're right on the edge here regarding marketing products on the forum without being a site sponsor, despite your crafty claims to the contrary within this thread. I'd suggest you cease making references to your "shop".

Additionally, I've pulled your signature advertisement which is not allowed unless you're a VOA member.

[Steve M]

I'm just glad someone figured this out with a stock PCM - HPTuners is only as good as the end user, which can be both a good and bad thing.

[EdwardETraylorIII]

rlhay,

No shell game whatsoever. I am not a sponsor here - and it would be in poor taste to mention our Shop Name! We will formally be releasing the details with HPT Tuners very soon. Honestly, the intention of this thread was to see if anyone else has figured this out (because I've been disconnected from the Viper forums for a while). As you can see from a few regular's posts - We are pretty well known and have a good reputation if you are local.

For now, a very limited group has gotten to ride in the car and see the work we have done.

We had a few free minutes last night so we threw the car up on the rollers (since there is some question/argument about some imaginary 6 PSI threshold. Granted, I did discover and disclose that this threshold did exist about a year when I ran into it and have since learned how to work around it with HPT). Perhaps this rumor that you're perpetuating is based on my findings from a year ago? If you could quote your source on this limit, that'd be great.

This is a 9-10 PSI pull:

http://i58.tinypic.com/2lzyo6.jpg

Honestly, we have resolution beyond 18 PSI, but I was nervous when it hit 18 PSI (on a stock motor - when a wastegate line developed a leak)... So I can't tell you that I've safely tested beyond that level but I can tell you that if you have that itch, it's definitely scratchable (on E85). I typically drive the car on the streets at 9-10 PSI (this varies slightly with the hot South Florida weather) because the car is very fun (read: faster than the word of God) and drivable at this power level. When it's cranked up to 15 PSI it always manages to aim right at a median or ditch and lunge for it!!! :)

[EdwardETraylorIII]

City,

I just can't win with you. Go ahead and delete the thread. I wasn't being "Crafty" at all! I won't post any more, ask any further questions or help any one any further.

[ViperSmith]

I don't understand the secrecy around any of this.

[XSnake]

City,

I just can't win with you. Go ahead and delete the thread. I wasn't being "Crafty" at all! I won't post any more, ask any further questions or help any one any further.

It's pretty obvious why you created this thread. People aren't stupid and City nailed it. Don't play the victim.

[City]

City,

I just can't win with you. Go ahead and delete the thread. I wasn't being "Crafty" at all! I won't post any more, ask any further questions or help any one any further.

We've certainly had our run ins here since you are relatively inflexible with regard to your posting. Heck, you forced me to go 5 or 6 rounds with you JUST with your reluctance to adhere to the forum rules relating to avatars! I finally gave in just because it became clear that your "testing how far you could step over the line" might never end.

It should be obvious that my post was a warning rather than any threat to delete your thread, certainly as a result of what's already been posted. If you decide not to post anymore as a result of my warning, you should own up to that decision. That choice is yours to make.

None of the moderators here are looking to create difficulties. We're simply trying to keep all things mildly reasonable. And yes, we DO have some obligation to protect our site sponsors who not only help fund this site (and my generous salary :rolleyes:) but are also extremely helpful to our viper community. It's certainly a delicate and difficult balance to maintain and I'll be the first to state that we do make improper choices at times, but said choices are never without serious consideration and never with malicious intent. Perhaps most importantly, we listen for criticism and stand ready to reverse poor decisions. We like to think of it as "flexibility". You might want to consider the same.

[DZnutz]

ED,

I just read through this thread. Regardless of what you have/have not built or tuned, your tone and comments come off as that of a sleazy, cocky dick. I know exactly how you would respond if someone paid you for something and felt they did not get what they had bargained for.

[Junkie]

I would just like to say my daily driver makes 3300whp on 87 octane, with a stock T5 trans and dead hooks on 20" street tires.





I have no proof, but I don't care about videos or dynos. But thats just how it is….

[pdv25]

I would just like to say my daily driver makes 3300whp on 87 octane, with a stock T5 trans and dead hooks on 20" street tires.






I have no proof, but I don't care about videos or dynos. But thats just how it is….

So that's why you're selling the TA! Sounds like a great daily.

[ViperSmith]

I would just like to say my daily driver makes 3300whp on 87 octane, with a stock T5 trans and dead hooks on 20" street tires.





I have no proof, but I don't care about videos or dynos. But thats just how it is….

http://media.giphy.com/media/A6H1A9rhetsXK/giphy.gif

[rlhay2]

I don't understand the secrecy around any of this.

My theory:

Whomever figures this out before Arrow releases their Supercharger ECU is likely to have the market cornered.
And it is already a rather small market compared to that of GM and Ford.

To date, I have yet to see any proof that the issues are resolved.
But I shall continue to hope that the current hurdles will soon be overcome.


Granted, I did discover and disclose that this threshold did exist about a year when I ran into it and have since learned how to work around it with HPT). Perhaps this rumor that you're perpetuating is based on my findings from a year ago? If you could quote your source on this limit, that'd be great.

Isn't this ironic. You are asking for full disclosure.

There are several shops across the USA awaiting HPTuners to release a solution to the 6psi threshold. To date, one still does not exist...yet.

[slovenom]

Top secrets are tearing this board apart!

[rlhay2]

I would just like to say my daily driver makes 3300whp on 87 octane, with a stock T5 trans and dead hooks on 20" street tires.

I have no proof, but I don't care about videos or dynos. But thats just how it is….

And weighs 2700lbs, rides like a Cadillac, has ice cold A/C, 56 speaker surround sound stereo, adaptive cruise control and gets 40mpg!!

I've ridden in the car but there are no photos.
And if requested, I will deny any chance for anyone else to see this amazing car.

[Voice of Reason]

And weighs 2700lbs, rides like a Cadillac, has ice cold A/C, 56 speaker surround sound stereo, adaptive cruise control and gets 40mpg!!

I've ridden in the car but there are no photos.
And if requested, I will deny any chance for anyone else to see this amazing car.

Contact me via PM, I'd like to send you $27k no strings attached to do this to my DD. TIA!

[ViperSmith]

My theory:

Whomever figures this out before Arrow releases their Supercharger ECU is likely to have the market cornered.
And it is already a rather small market compared to that of GM and Ford.

To date, I have yet to see any proof that the issues are resolved.
But I shall continue to hope that the current hurdles will soon be overcome.



Isn't this ironic. You are asking for full disclosure.

There are several shops across the USA awaiting HPTuners to release a solution to the 6psi threshold. To date, one still does not exist...yet.

If you've built cars in customers hands, then there is no reason to be secretive.

Ed may very well be doing it, and doing it well - but the secret squirrel angle just isn't appealing.

[Magnus]

If you've built cars in customers hands, then there is no reason to be secretive.

Ed may very well be doing it, and doing it well - but the secret squirrel angle just isn't appealing.

The Arrow route is just as secretive. I doubt they'll be releasing their tune to the public, or information on the tables needed to properly tune for boost.

It takes a lot of time to dial in a tune. Arrow has had years to work on it. We (HP Tuners) have only released the solution to the public 1-2 years ago.

The developers/engineers that create these products (Arrow, Ed, etc..) need to protect their R&D.

- Keith @ HP Tuners

[vegasgtr]

The Arrow route is just as secretive. I doubt they'll be releasing their tune to the public, or information on the tables needed to properly tune for boost.

It takes a lot of time to dial in a tune. Arrow has had years to work on it. We (HP Tuners) have only released the solution to the public 1-2 years ago.

The developers/engineers that create these products (Arrow, Ed, etc..) need to protect their R&D.

- Keith @ HP Tuners


Keith,
Looking to buy Hptuners for basic tune. Are you saying you guys have figured it out ( 6psi +) or still working on it?

[Steve M]

The Arrow route is just as secretive. I doubt they'll be releasing their tune to the public, or information on the tables needed to properly tune for boost.

It takes a lot of time to dial in a tune. Arrow has had years to work on it. We (HP Tuners) have only released the solution to the public 1-2 years ago.

The developers/engineers that create these products (Arrow, Ed, etc..) need to protect their R&D.

- Keith @ HP Tuners

Bingo...I've been fooling around with my otherwise stock car for the better part of the past 1.5 years, and only now am I starting to scratch the surface as to what does what, and that's for a car with 0 mods. And I still have more questions than answers.

[ViperSmith]

The Arrow route is just as secretive. I doubt they'll be releasing their tune to the public, or information on the tables needed to properly tune for boost.

It takes a lot of time to dial in a tune. Arrow has had years to work on it. We (HP Tuners) have only released the solution to the public 1-2 years ago.

The developers/engineers that create these products (Arrow, Ed, etc..) need to protect their R&D.

- Keith @ HP Tuners

No one is saying anyone should release their secret sauce. More, put up or shut up I think seems to be what people are saying.

[Disturbed]

Bobby, I can swing by at some point next week. I already know the way.

Just send Ed a PM for his address. He'd be happy to let you check it out.

[Malu59RT]

Ed,

People are just excited about being able to boost the car and not be forced to use a stand alone computer, in hopes this brings the cost of the TT kit to a more manageable price. I thought the two videos you posted were awesome, because it puts us in the driver's seat of a TT Viper, and I LOVE hearing those turbos spool.

rlhay2 is a good friend of mine (he's also on Dallas Racing, where we first talked), and is as serious as they come in building a TT 1000hp Viper, if you can use the stock computer. I will put up the $200 for you to be a site sponsor and advertise the kit here, so he can get all the info he needs, and I can get some TT Viper porn for my spank bank :D. Just let me know!

[rlhay2]

People are just excited about being able to boost the car and not be forced to use a stand alone computer, in hopes this brings the cost of the TT kit to a more manageable price.

And passing the Texas state emissions test without resorting to alternatives...

[ANTI_LAG]

Better hope you never loose a wastegate vacuum line or get a stuck gate, stock ecu defiantly dosent have any boost cut, prepare to pick peices of your expensive engine off the ground. I don't see why someone would spend all this money on a exotic car, a turbo kit and needed fuel system, and skimp on the engine management and do away with any engine protection safe guards...

[XSnake]

Just send Ed a PM for his address. He'd be happy to let you check it out.

Oh, I thought the car was yours

[rlhay2]

Better hope you never loose a wastegate vacuum line or get a stuck gate, stock ecu defiantly dosent have any boost cut, prepare to pick peices of your expensive engine off the ground.

Eboost2 and AMS 500/1000 do this very well.
An added benefit, neither will deter your vehicle passing an OBD-II state inspection.

[ANTI_LAG]

Eboost2 and AMS 500/1000 do this very well.
An added benefit, neither will deter your vehicle passing an OBD-II state inspection.

Both of those will not prevent an engine from over boosting, they only control the boost. Standalones would only be able to do that.

[vegasgtr]

Both of those will not prevent an engine from over boosting, they only control the boost. Standalones would only be able to do that.

Ill take a simple bolt on centri Kit for under 10k. If any vendor on here decides to go down this route they will sell a ton of tuner kits.

No need to get fancy. A&A corvette sells 1000's of Tuner kits for Z06s at 7500 installed. Material is prob around 3500$ . Get a Jig made and mass sell them. they will be a hit. I can see 100 Kits sold easily in the first year.

something like this:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Paxton/769/1201830-1/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1896244274&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=230006180000849447&cadevice=c&gclid=CN-L4b3izMYCFUyVfgodNrkKJg

[vegasgtr]

The Blower is what 1200-1500 Wholesale? IC is 800-1200$ S/C brackets 500-800$ cost ? rest is clamps , pipes and hoses. once you get the first one lined up and done. it should be a 6-8 hour job to install. Basing it off Andy's Kits.

[slovenom]

Back in the day I Bought and 01 Z n shipped it to eastcoastsupercharging :)
6500$ later I was making 600 rwhp :)

Can't b that hard to make a kit like you said Vegas

[Steve M]

You'd also get around any potential overboosting issues...I realize that blowers aren't for everyone, but based on what I've seen, the market wants an easy, plug and play solution. A fabbed up turbo kit just doesn't fit that bill. A ProCharger would likely do very well on a Gen 5, especially since you can adjust the exhaust cam angle with HPTuners.

[rlhay2]

Both of those will not prevent an engine from over boosting, they only control the boost. Standalones would only be able to do that.

They only control boost but do not control over boosting???

Google is your friend for researching this further but both do have algorithms to prevent over boosting.

Now they are mechanical based systems and a standalone should outperform them.

But, a standalone will not pass a plug in state state inspection, and these will.

[Viper Specialty]

Threads like these make me chuckle... for many reasons.

Point 1: Some people have a very warped idea [as usual] as to what things cost to build. If someone thinks that they are going to see a Blower kit for LESS than what the Gen-2/3 Paxton costs, which was a relatively high-volume, long running package... they are dreaming in la-la land. People have no comprehension just how much it costs to bring every single bolt and screw into a package form, the logistics of it, and the tech support... for 25 kits with a profit margin of 1K each after eating the development time and hassles? That's barely worth getting out of bed in the morning, and is a HUGE loss when factoring in what they could make in other areas instead. If a Blower kit is produced in a centri-style package, expect to see the same ballpark price as Paxton, and it will certainly be HPT based for that price range. Anything more advanced will be far more pricey.

Point 2: No system which controls boost, but does not have control of the engine directly is capable of complete and total over-boost protection. If you have a stuck solenoid, a stuck wastegate, a damaged hose or any other number of things that can cause an over-boost condition, unless you have the ability to perform an engine cut, limp mode, or limiting of some type on ANOTHER system, you are not protected. Period.

[vegasgtr]

Threads like these make me chuckle... for many reasons.

Point 1: Some people have a very warped idea [as usual] as to what things cost to build. If someone thinks that they are going to see a Blower kit for LESS than what the Gen-2/3 Paxton costs, which was a relatively high-volume, long running package... they are dreaming in la-la land. People have no comprehension just how much it costs to bring every single bolt and screw into a package form, the logistics of it, and the tech support... for 25 kits with a profit margin of 1K each after eating the development time and hassles? That's barely worth getting out of bed in the morning, and is a HUGE loss when factoring in what they could make in other areas instead. If a Blower kit is produced in a centri-style package, expect to see the same ballpark price as Paxton, and it will certainly be HPT based for that price range. Anything more advanced will be far more pricey.

Point 2: No system which controls boost, but does not have control of the engine directly is capable of complete and total over-boost protection. If you have a stuck solenoid, a stuck wastegate, a damaged hose or any other number of things that can cause an over-boost condition, unless you have the ability to perform an engine cut, limp mode, or limiting of some type on ANOTHER system, you are not protected. Period.
sorry but i have to disagree...
ECS , Procharger , A&A all have centri blower that are run by belt. Meaning it wont spin the blower past a certain PSI. 99% of them have been running stock ECU and have ZERO problems. If you slap on a tuner blower kit on these cars making 7-8psi and tuned for it , you will have zero problems .

The Gen V model could go on for 6 years + If someone makes a Kit for 9k tuner kit. I am willing to bet they turn a nice profit. Especially when the next cheapest kit is 25k. I talked to Andy @ A&A and told him he needs to fabricate one for us... lets see if he jumps on it.

[ANTI_LAG]

You are correct that a blower will not overboost, usually they spin a belt and make less lol, but theres no way your gonna onna have a company make one for as cheap as a corvette, the numbers just arent there production wise, also its gonna take a larger head unit then a base corvette so cost will be more. You also need to factor in the cost for the needed fuel system (hanger, pumps, lines, regulator, rails, and injectors).

The above comment is correct, only the engine management can prevent overboost using a limiter, if you are on a stock ecm, your basically shit out of luck, you also wont have any protection if you loose a fuel pump or regulator via a fuel pressure safety, nothing manufactured is perfect and things happen, when you make 800+Hp, its happenes even faster, so engine management is key.

[Junkie]

It's going to require a pretty large head unit on our motors, but I'd love to see it. Even at 15k

[rlhay2]

It's going to require a pretty large head unit on our motors, but I'd love to see it. Even at 15k

http://jmbperformance.com/ was looking for a Gen IV/V to prototype a kit with an F1X. Just FYI.

[vegasgtr]

It's going to require a pretty large head unit on our motors, but I'd love to see it. Even at 15k

What is the fuel limits on a Gen V ? Injectors and Fuel pumps?

A novi2000 will be MORE than enough. Heck the standard Si blower will make 750whp even on this big motor. My 06Z 7 liter made 230whp+ with only 7.5psi .

[Steve M]

What is the fuel limits on a Gen V ? Injectors and Fuel pumps?

A novi2000 will be MORE than enough. Heck the standard Si blower will make 750whp even on this big motor. My 06Z 7 liter made 230whp+ with only 7.5psi .

Based on the heads/cam thread, it looks like about 650-670 RWHP is about the limit for an NA car, so an FI car would be a bit less than that.

Here was the quote:


700 at the wheels will also require fuel system upgrades and different pistons to allow for more lift. We ran 9 different cam shafts to max what we could with the factory fuel system and internals on the gen V.

[Junkie]

The cars will without a doubt require a fuel system. With the limited production, R&D, tuning, mods, etc.. I would expect 15-20k for a blower kit. Which I would be a buyer at. Especially if there are pulley options and its a centri blower. My car makes 900/900 and I think thats achievable with a blower on 93 octane with the right combo.

[vegasgtr]

The cars will without a doubt require a fuel system. With the limited production, R&D, tuning, mods, etc.. I would expect 15-20k for a blower kit. Which I would be a buyer at. Especially if there are pulley options and its a centri blower. My car makes 900/900 and I think thats achievable with a blower on 93 octane with the right combo.
well At 20K you are right there with the 25k 4.3 liter top mount that is coming out soon.

I still would like to see a Tuner Kit under 10k.

[Junkie]

well At 20K you are right there with the 25k 4.3 liter top mount that is coming out soon.

I still would like to see a Tuner Kit under 10k.

How are you going to accomplish that? Its not a Corvette so the volume won't be there for vendors. They need to make more $$$ per kit.

Also 10k with a fuel system? Not a chance.


I think a power adder option for sub 12k is hopes and dreams that aren't ever going to happen.

[nastygts]

well At 20K you are right there with the 25k 4.3 liter top mount that is coming out soon.

I still would like to see a Tuner Kit under 10k.

Good Luck!

[ViperSmith]

I think the solution is simple: if you think it can easily be done for $10,000 - then hire someone to crank out the kits for you at that price. You can lay out the cash for R&D and recoup it as units start flying off the shelves.

[vegasgtr]

I think the solution is simple: if you think it can easily be done for $10,000 - then hire someone to crank out the kits for you at that price. You can lay out the cash for R&D and recoup it as units start flying off the shelves.

I am in talks with Andy @ A&A , he needs my car to see how much room etc. I am in Vegas. ViperGirl did offer to bring it to him.They need to coordinate a time for him to have a quick look. He buys the head units pretty cheap since he is a volume dealer.

Twin turbo Kits are 8K from HKS for the GTR. thats with all the piping. GTR tax is up there also!

Injectors are 600$ and drop in Fuel pumps are 500$
http://www.frsport.com/GT800-GTII-Turbo-Kit---Nissan-R35-GTR_p_50181.html?gclid=CJffzLS6zsYCFYZefgodQ0UFQw

[Viper Specialty]

sorry but i have to disagree...
ECS , Procharger , A&A all have centri blower that are run by belt. Meaning it wont spin the blower past a certain PSI. 99% of them have been running stock ECU and have ZERO problems. If you slap on a tuner blower kit on these cars making 7-8psi and tuned for it , you will have zero problems .

The Gen V model could go on for 6 years + If someone makes a Kit for 9k tuner kit. I am willing to bet they turn a nice profit. Especially when the next cheapest kit is 25k. I talked to Andy @ A&A and told him he needs to fabricate one for us... lets see if he jumps on it.


Ahem. The comments this was in regard to are referencing Twin Turbo builds and Wastegate Hoses.... none of which have anything to do with a Blower.

Also, now you are saying "Tuner Kit", and 7500 just became 9K. Lets be friendly, and say that 9K is actually 11-12K. That is actually realistic for a blower, brackets, IC and piping when factoring in such a small current market and R&D costs.

OK, now add Fuel Pump Booster, +500. Add HPT, +1K. Add Rails/Fuel Lines, +750. Add nice injectors, +750. Add tuning, +1K minimum. Add Install, +3K for a truly professional job.

We are already at 18-19K for an installed package, or figure 15-16K for a shippable package. For an over 800/wheel fuel system, add another couple grand to that number.

[Junkie]

that looks like GTR parts, not Viper parts. I could be wrong though.

The only company I know that sells a drop in fuel system/hanger etc… for a G5 is PHR. Thats 3k-ish

Fuel system- $3-4k
Procharger F1 head unit- $3500-$5k
tuning- $1500-$2500
intercooler- $1500

Thats $9500 in parts, on the cheap side. Without BOV, piping, brackets, idlers, etc...

[vegasgtr]

No need need for F1 head unit a YSI will be more than enough. Head unit is 1500$ that will Flow 1000HP easy. Tuning should not be more than 1k.
http://www.teambeefcakeracing.com/100110.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&gclid=CIKS39K9zsYCFcdhfgodT6QOTw

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BTW found ED's Viper on the dyno..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7f2jTbZpvc

[Junkie]

No need need for F1 head unit a YSI will be more than enough. Head unit is 1500$ that will Flow 1000HP easy. Tuning should not be more than 1k.
http://www.teambeefcakeracing.com/100110.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&gclid=CIKS39K9zsYCFcdhfgodT6QOTw

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BTW found ED's Viper on the dyno..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7f2jTbZpvc

You are aware the credits from HPT are $1000 right? So you think the tuner should make $0 for his time?

[socal]

Doubtful you need a full fuel system for 7 psi. I'm no expert, but I bet you could get away with injectors and a boost-a-pump. Head unit should be cheap if this is put together by a corvette tuner since you get their volume, which means THIS IS STILL ALL ABOUT THE TUNING. The hardware isn't that expensive, but the software is still unproven.

[Viper Specialty]

You are aware the credits from HPT are $1000 right? So you think the tuner should make $0 for his time?


THANK YOU for saving the time to type it, LOL.

[vegasgtr]

THANK YOU for saving the time to type it, LOL.

Ok, makes sense. With the Vette, GTR the tuner has the master software and tunes it for 500$.

Look at the end of the day. It might not ever happen. My thought process was if ECS and A&A sell 5k tuner kits for Z06's and paxton was selling 7k kits for older vipers why would they not be able to produce a 10k kit. I guess i am being unrealistic....

[XSnake]

Just because something can be done doesnt mean it should be. If you cant afford an EM system for your 100k car that your dumping another 20k+ in then maybe you should rethink your plans. It will end up costing you A LOT more in thw long run when it all goes to hell.

[vegasgtr]

Just because something can be done doesnt mean it should be. If you cant afford an EM system for your 100k car that your dumping another 20k+ in then maybe you should rethink your plans. It will end up costing you A LOT more in thw long run when it all goes to hell.

nothing is going to hell with 6psi on a forged motor viper driven by a set pulley. If the stock ECU can handle it, the car will be fine. The tuner will tune on the safety side. I see no problems. We are not talking about something has not been done.

[ANTI_LAG]

Just because something can be done doesnt mean it should be. If you cant afford an EM system for your 100k car that your dumping another 20k+ in then maybe you should rethink your plans. It will end up costing you A LOT more in thw long run when it all goes to hell.

Best quote in the whole thread...

[Nine Ball]

Centri supercharger would be the easiest to mass-produce, easy to package in the Gen 5, and has head units readily available to build from. No worries about overboost, as mentioned, since it is pulley restricted. I would think $13-15K for a complete blower kit w/ fuel system and tune on the stock PCM would be a hot seller. Even the trusty Novi2000 head unit is good for 850-900 rwhp reliably.

[Steve M]

Ok, makes sense. With the Vette, GTR the tuner has the master software and tunes it for 500$.

Look at the end of the day. It might not ever happen. My thought process was if ECS and A&A sell 5k tuner kits for Z06's and paxton was selling 7k kits for older vipers why would they not be able to produce a 10k kit. I guess i am being unrealistic....

Gen 4/5 Viper tuning is a whole different ball game - the Venom PCM is unique to this platform, and uses a unique code that required and extensive amount of resources to reverse engineer. Due to the limited market, HPTuners charges accordingly (although it is right in line with the Arrow PCM costs).

I came from the world of LS1 F-bodies, so I know what's normal for tuning costs...the Viper just doesn't fall in that category because of its odd ball status in the Chrysler/Dodge lineup.

[XSnake]

nothing is going to hell with 6psi on a forged motor viper driven by a set pulley. If the stock ECU can handle it, the car will be fine. The tuner will tune on the safety side. I see no problems. We are not talking about something has not been done.

Whose done it??

[Evan@D3PE]

I've got a mock up blower and car, as well as all the tools and capabilities here :)

[vegasgtr]

I've got a mock up blower and car, as well as all the tools and capabilities here :)

how long before you will have one for us to see? hopefully you have a base tuner kit small boost.

[vegasgtr]

Whose done it??

Well boost is boost. so a few TT cars have been tuned. If you are referring to centri, no one has done it. I was referring to tuning side.

[FrgMstr]

To answer the OP, I was over at RSI today talking to Will Hamblin and he told me that they had put 5 TT Gen V cars on the road so far.

[Viper Girl]

Just joined, three posts and already on the attack. AE much?
Thanks for pointing this out... I took a look and Mr anti-lag might just be an AE that got by us... Registration info is bogus...

Thanks

[Tiago]

I've got a mock up blower and car, as well as all the tools and capabilities here :)

get to work! :)

[Steve M]

BTW found ED's Viper on the dyno..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7f2jTbZpvc

The idle surge reminds me of what happens when you disable to torque spark calculations with HPT...

[viper04]

The idle surge reminds me of what happens when you disable to torque spark calculations with HPT...
Steve M
LOL! Was saying the same thing to myself. At lease that's what it sounds like.

[XSnake]

To answer the OP, I was over at RSI today talking to Will Hamblin and he told me that they had put 5 TT Gen V cars on the road so far.

this one is too easy...

[Acperformance]

i think its safe to say you will see a paxton on a gen v in the next months to come. With so many reputable shops eager to do it, just working the time between projects to get it done.

You will see it on our shop Viper. Due to hurdles, nobody likes to spill anything until we have the big bugs worked out :)

Todd

[vegasgtr]

i think its safe to say you will see a paxton on a gen v in the next months to come. With so many reputable shops eager to do it, just working the time between projects to get it done.

You will see it on our shop Viper. Due to hurdles, nobody likes to spill anything until we have the big bugs worked out :)

Todd

Keep me posted! I think you guys are 3 hours away from Vegas.

[tmcphail]

I have a TT TA using HPTuners as well. Currently at 8-9 PSI and rising once we finalize further fuel system upgrades to sustain adequate fuel pressure.

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[vegasgtr]

I have a TT TA using HPTuners as well. Currently at 8-9 PSI and rising once we finalize further fuel system upgrades to sustain adequate fuel pressure.

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How much is the kit? who makes it ?

[pdv25]

I have a TT TA using HPTuners as well. Currently at 8-9 PSI and rising once we finalize further fuel system upgrades to sustain adequate fuel pressure.

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Really nice brother!!!

[tmcphail]

How much is the kit? who makes it ?

I had good friends of mine in Jacksonville build this. They built the TT system for my Ford GT back in 2006 as well. I am still working through the calibration process. Works really well on the street :)

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Really nice brother!!!

Thanks man.

[XSnake]

How much is the kit? who makes it ?

Stage 6 did it. Dwight does quality work.

[ViperSmith]

guy i know at ARD in Georgia just bought an orange ta and are doing a turbo setup on it. i think they are using a motec controller.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ARD-Motorsports/216853261666358?fref=photo

[ellowviper]

I've seen Ed's car personally...when I bought his spare set of GEN-V wheels from him last year...its pretty sweet. Not sure what the big surprise is regarding his car. This was resolved last year or so when he first broached the idea of developing a TT kit. No one believed him. And he showed me some of his HP Tuner developmental work he had done on the car.

[viper04]

I have a TT TA using HPTuners as well. Currently at 8-9 PSI and rising once we finalize further fuel system upgrades to sustain adequate fuel pressure.

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Torrie
Nice to see you have it up and running. Any Dyno numbers and what seems to be the limit of the stock fuel system HP wise?

[moe.basilo]

I have a TT TA using HPTuners as well. Currently at 8-9 PSI and rising once we finalize further fuel system upgrades to sustain adequate fuel pressure.

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Thats a nice setup torrie hope you sort everything out buddy :drive:
am also going for a TT Package real soon am just gathering all the parts right now
ill hit you up as soon as the car ready for the tune brother :)