1,000 Mile Gen V Heads & Cam update and driving impressions.

[FLATOUT]

I thought some of you might appreciate some info based on my first 1,000 miles with the new ViperExchange/Arrow Stage II package. I'll go through some of the driving situations I have put the car through, what we learned, and what surprised us.

Quick history, the install was completed roughly 3 weeks ago and I have put about 1,100 miles on the car since that time. The Houston Temps have been in the low to mid 90's during most of that time with humidity at 80% +. If not commuting in the car due to weather I have still been hitting the back roads in the evening to get miles on the car. Below are some different scenarios and how the package has performed. Quick note, car has not experienced any limp mode issues or CEL's since the initial startup.

Daily commute: 45 minutes each way to and from Viper Exchange, light traffic, mostly asphalt. Traction control is helpful on asphalt lol. Fluid temps typically stay right around stock levels, no idle hunting, bucking, or surging. Car feels very similar to a full exhaust Gen V in day to day driving situations. Very comfortable to spend time in and gets nasty when you hit the go pedal!

Rush Hour Traffic: I have been putting the car into Houston Rush Hour traffic at least once a week to see how it fairs with the elevated outside and surface temps without air moving over the radiator to keep things cool. Coolant levels have stayed rock steady at 200 or below, never showing any signs of temp related problems. Same is to be said for the oil temps. Very consistant even when you would rather be in a swimming pool than driving a Viper. Cabin temps seem to be reduced with the full exhaust as well. The best part of being stuck in traffic now is watching the car twich from the cam, and the cam lopping at idle.

Back Roads Blasts: My favorite place to enjoy the build so far. Car just rips on the back roads and so far has taken everything I can throw at it in stride. Again no temp related issues, and the car just works. Corner exit with an extra 100 hp is fun :D

Roll Race Pulls: WOT pulls for customers, and a few runs with a friends TA on Saturday were good. Made 4-6 pulls next to a 2014 TA with the Arrow ECU from 60-130 or so and the stage II car was pulling about 5-6 cars consistently. Both cars also have the DSE Heat shielding so they both had similar IAT's. Race weight was also very similar. I had a 1/4 less fuel but weigh about 60-70lbs more than the TA driver. Carbon GTS and Bryan Savage have been along for the ride so they might be able to chime in.

Long Haul: I drove the car round trip about 600 miles a few weeks ago to attend the Texas Invitational. Same outside temps with an average cruising speed of about 75mph. Car did very well and had no problems with the long trip. There is an extremely slight buck that occurs from 1400-1600 when you leave the car in 6th gear and really load it up, but Dick is going to do his magic to get rid of it and even if he didn't it's not really something that you would most likely notice anyways. Car was better than expected on long drives.

I know I work for ViperExchange and sell these packages but I tried to be completely honest with my early assement and how things were progressing. Dick Winkles is flying in tomorrow for some final calibration work and Arrow has 50 sets ready to go within the next couple of weeks. Still planning on hitting the dyno after the final Cal is done.

If you are interested and not on my list email me now so I can make sure you're on it. If you have any other questions fire away.

[Tiago]

cool, looking forward to the dyno #s.

[99RT10]

cool, looking forward to the dyno #s.

X2, any tickets during the testing phase................... :D

[FLATOUT]

X2, any tickets during the testing phase................... :D

LMAO word gets around. Yes I got a nice one leaving TI haha. Nothing to write home about just cruising to fast on the freeway. My Black TA blended in better than the Blue.

[Coloviper]

Tell Dick to bring that Blower with him when he comes. (Man that whole sentence just sounds wrong)

[ViperDC]

Tell Dick to bring that Blower with him when he comes. (Man that whole sentence just sounds wrong)

lol

[pdv25]

Tell Dick to bring that Blower with him when he comes. (Man that whole sentence just sounds wrong)

:smilielol::smilielol::smilielol::smilielol:

[FLATOUT]

:smilielol::smilielol::smilielol::smilielol:

hahahahahahaha

[345s-bspinnin]

Thanks for thorough write up Andy. I certainly like the very OEM-like behavior. Wish I could say the same about my H/C Gen III.

[donk_316]

Are there plans to have a Canadian dealer act as a distributor for this so we can get it as a "dealer installed" option also?

[lochnessmonster]

Are there plans to have a Canadian dealer act as a distributor for this so we can get it as a "dealer installed" option also?

Great question. Nice write up Andy. Sounds awesome!!

[cashcorn]

I enjoyed your write up. Great insight! Looking forward to the coming results. On the roll with the TA, what was his exhaust? thanks

[Simms]

Nice writeup and update.

Man I wish you guys were closer.

[viper04]

Nice keep us posted, really interesting in seeing the dyno numbers.

[swexlin]

Thanks for the update. A cool job - getting to mod your car and then trying to get something to break - and it won't break! I wish my daily driving was a much fun.

[Bryan Savage]

While I was in Houston for a business trip on June 22nd, I'd rented a car and made sure I stopped by Viper Exchange to meet whoever happened to be there.

Bernie and Andy were champs to take time out of their day for my random visit. Bernie showed me up to the Vault, and Andy ducked out of a meeting to chat and he took me for a spin in his car. All I have to say is:

I want.

I've tuned cars before and built my own fuel and ignition tables on a standalone system, and the day-to-day driveability is the most difficult thing to get right. Andy's car was loud as balls with the exhaust package, but his car ran like a raped ape. It fired right up and idled no problem. A/C on, tooling around the parking lot, traffic lights, and stop-and-go, and the car ran and felt like factory. No dead spots, no jumps, skips, stumbles, or shenanigans. No dash lights and no problems whatsoever.

The car pulled like the a twin-turboed Saturn V. Second, third, and fourth gears were gone in seconds, right up to the posted speed limit ;) , and Andy was not gentle with the shifting either.

We checked under the hood so Andy could show me the intake heat shield later on and I saw nothing, as expected. No smoke, leaks, smells, nothing. I looked pretty hard too.

This upgrade isn't cheap, but 1) nothing for these cars is, and 2) that's because it's such a well-sorted package. Made by people who care for the Viper community, grew up with Vipers, worked with Vipers all their lives, and who put their names and reputations on the line. You might be able to go cheaper, but you won't go better, or have even remotely the support behind you that you would with this package.

Aside from my recent "setback" (*cough*), only my checking account prevented me from signing up.

[FLATOUT]

Are there plans to have a Canadian dealer act as a distributor for this so we can get it as a "dealer installed" option also?

No but I can sell you the parts over the counter. Do you have someone you trust to do the install?

[LmeaViper]

Like these threads and waiting for a dyno....just to see.

X 3 on a Cdn dealer.

[cashcorn]

On the roll with the TA, what was his exhaust? thanks

[FLATOUT]

On the roll with the TA, what was his exhaust? thanks

Stock exhaust with ECU. Should make 580RWHP.

[FLATOUT]

Bryan Savage, I really appreciate your feedback. I need to get more people in the passenger seat, I think it will help get the word out a little.

I'm taking the car on the next Bucket list event so I'll get a chance to get people in the car there as well.

[FLATOUT]

Great question. Nice write up Andy. Sounds awesome!!

I can sell you the package directly and you can find a local installer. That would be the best option.

[FLATOUT]

Thanks for thorough write up Andy. I certainly like the very OEM-like behavior. Wish I could say the same about my H/C Gen III.

Thanks Andreas, I'm sure they could have pulled a little more power out of the package but I doubt it would have such good street manners.

[FLATOUT]

Look who stopped by today :)

Always great spending time with Mr. Winkles. We flashed a new calibration in my car to fix the slight bucking issue I mentioned above, and he is taking our other Heads and Cam test car out for a few days for some more testing.

It was great to watch him work and explain a little bit of what he was seeing on my car. He could tell the motor still had a little more breaking in to do based on friction numbers he was seeing at idle. I went out and drove his latest calibration and low speed driving (parking lot) was even better. We have a couple other things to try that should help some of you that might be on the fence.

Andy

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/314/19328132212_66552c0caa_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ)image (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[lochnessmonster]

I can sell you the package directly and you can find a local installer. That would be the best option.

I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.

You could literally go your whole life up here and never actually see a Viper on the road. I like to think my car is more rare than a Ferrari, or a Lambo, and I'm probably right. As a result, we just don't have the "talent pool" to draw from. Unless someone else in the VOA has some suggestions, it's gonna take a trip back to my homeland to get the job done. Not a big deal. I've got an Aunt in Austin who'd love to have me stop in sometime :)

[J TNT]

It's always great to see Dr. Winkles work his magic ! ;)

Look who stopped by today :)

Always great spending time with Mr. Winkles. We flashed a new calibration in my car to fix the slight bucking issue I mentioned above, and he is taking our other Heads and Cam test car out for a few days for some more testing.

It was great to watch him work and explain a little bit of what he was seeing on my car. He could tell the motor still had a little more breaking in to do based on friction numbers he was seeing at idle. I went out and drove his latest calibration and low speed driving (parking lot) was even better. We have a couple other things to try that should help some of you that might be on the fence.

Andy

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/314/19328132212_66552c0caa_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ)image (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[FLATOUT]

Damn, very good point. Well Austin is lovely this time of year :D



I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.

You could literally go your whole life up here and never actually see a Viper on the road. I like to think my car is more rare than a Ferrari, or a Lambo, and I'm probably right. As a result, we just don't have the "talent pool" to draw from. Unless someone else in the VOA has some suggestions, it's gonna take a trip back to my homeland to get the job done. Not a big deal. I've got an Aunt in Austin who'd love to have me stop in sometime :)

[SilveRT8]

I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.
:)

Only 3 GTS for Canada in 2013, I ordered mine in Dec '12 and got it in August '13, so that's two of us, who's got the third one ?

[Rapidrezults]

Can't wait to see what the MPH is on this setup in the 1/4.

[viper04]

"Mr. Winkles", would love to pick his brain to find out more details about our motors.

[lochnessmonster]

Only 3 GTS for Canada in 2013, I ordered mine in Dec '12 and got it in August '13, so that's two of us, who's got the third one ?

Hey Claude, not sure, but we certainly are part of a very select group.

PS- mine arrived July 9th, 2013.

[Jack B]

Everyone is with you, but, keep in mind mph will not win you the race. I would prefer 120 mph with a 10.5 et.


Can't wait to see what the MPH is on this setup in the 1/4.

[ViperDC]

I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.

You could literally go your whole life up here and never actually see a Viper on the road. I like to think my car is more rare than a Ferrari, or a Lambo, and I'm probably right. As a result, we just don't have the "talent pool" to draw from. Unless someone else in the VOA has some suggestions, it's gonna take a trip back to my homeland to get the job done. Not a big deal. I've got an Aunt in Austin who'd love to have me stop in sometime :)

Just go down to Austin for the F1 race and get your car worked on. Two birds with one stone.

[Steve M]

Look who stopped by today :)

Always great spending time with Mr. Winkles. We flashed a new calibration in my car to fix the slight bucking issue I mentioned above, and he is taking our other Heads and Cam test car out for a few days for some more testing.

It was great to watch him work and explain a little bit of what he was seeing on my car. He could tell the motor still had a little more breaking in to do based on friction numbers he was seeing at idle. I went out and drove his latest calibration and low speed driving (parking lot) was even better. We have a couple other things to try that should help some of you that might be on the fence.

Andy

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/314/19328132212_66552c0caa_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ)image (https://flic.kr/p/vrXJjQ) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

Can I borrow his laptop for a few minutes?

[FLATOUT]

Everyone is with you, but, keep in mind mph will not win you the race. I would prefer 120 mph with a 10.5 et.

If you just want a drag car why not put a TH400 or power glide with a brake in the car :) You have more than enough stock trap speed to run mid 10's hangin' the wheels leaving on a trans brake. Trap speeds in this case are relevant as this is still predominantly an acceleration based package, that should just happen to double as a great straight line car as well. And yes I am just trying to nudge you into putting a 1/4 type trans in your gen V so I can see the results :D

Andy

- - - Updated - - -


Just go down to Austin for the F1 race and get your car worked on. Two birds with one stone.

That's a great idea! Lonestar Lemans is another great one as well.

[FLATOUT]

Can I borrow his laptop for a few minutes?

I love the software he uses. Really amazing to watch everything going on real time.

[Rapidrezults]

Everyone is with you, but, keep in mind mph will not win you the race. I would prefer 120 mph with a 10.5 et.

For me personally, I am more interested in roll racing and road racing, so yes, MPH is a good indication of if you will win the race in most cases. Lowest ET's are great, but then you want DRs, clutches, etc. I want a beast on the track(road course) that can fare well against anything you might encounter on the highways in Mexico. ;)

[Jack B]

I agree with you again, but, the press/mags do not post that stat.

I do disagree with you on the higher mph winning the race. In most cases my best mph is associated with my worst et.


For me personally, I am more interested in roll racing and road racing, so yes, MPH is a good indication of if you will win the race in most cases. Lowest ET's are great, but then you want DRs, clutches, etc. I want a beast on the track(road course) that can fare well against anything you might encounter on the highways in Mexico. ;)

[Carbon GTS]

Last week I had an O2 sensor go out on me so I had my excuse to visit Viperexchange and ask Andy for a ride.

Andy greeted me as soon as I arrived and we made our way to the side of the building where Andy was parked. We popped the hood and minus the headers it looks all factory... not a wire out of place. We jumped in and I left the door open on purpose so I could hear the cam up close. As expected listening to audio clips on the forums just didn't do this car justice. The cam is definitely audible and adds a slight rumble/shake to the car that constantly reminds you "your not stock".

Well pulled out slowly and I was immediately expecting some sort of cam surge at low speed and there was none. While still in the parking lot I was looking to see if Andy would bring the car up to speed quickly in an effort dodge the low RPMs but he didn't. The car was so well behaved there was zero special treatment or adjustment from normal driving. It just felt solid...

We made two pulls and man did this car preform. We made one pull from lower in the RPM band in 1st and the second from 60mph in 2nd. She was strong though every gear nose up from 1st to 4th. I've got a quick car with basically the stage one package and I could immediately tell this car was quicker. My car with the VVT cam wakes up around 3500-4k rpms and just wants to rip your head off but Andy's car feels like that much further down the rpm band. The second pull from 60 was with traction control off Andy had to feather the pedal a bit to get her to hook but when she did it ran like a raped ape.

The guys did exactly what the meant to do when they wanted to build a daily drivable hands/cam package. I liked how it made the Viper feel more like a muscle car. A little less refinement and more of the "ass-puckering effect" is exactly what the Gen V needs. Everything about this package felt natural with OEM quality all over it. I come from the muscle car side of things and have grown to appreciate the Viper for more than just racing straight. The car sacrifices nothing with from what I could tell.

I was both impressed and pissed… Thinking on one hand damn that car is just right with a good cam note on the exhaust, good power all over the RPM band and no reliability issues. On the other hand I was pissed bc this is exactly how this car should have come from the factory.

[Rapidrezults]

I agree with you again, but, the press/mags do not post that stat.

I do disagree with you on the higher mph winning the race. In most cases my best mph is associated with my worst et.

Okay, okay, 3rd gear only roll race, who wins? ET car or MPH car? Lol. Of course ET will always play a part in everything, shifting quickness, traction etc..

I get your point too, all in good fun!

[lochnessmonster]

Just go down to Austin for the F1 race and get your car worked on. Two birds with one stone.

Now you're talkin'!!!! Actually, my wife, kids, and I were in Montreal at Circuit du Gilles Villineuve for the F1 race last month (awesome btw), and I've told her I reeeeeeeeeally want to go to COA to see that one as well. That track looks gorgeous!!!!! It happens in the fall, and I just don't think we can get it together for this year, but next year, oh yaaaaaah. F1 + Aunt visit + headers/cam etc. Many birds with one stone.

Edit - Just as a side note, hey Andy, I was a flight instructor down at Weiser Field back in the summer of '99. My wife and I were down on FM 1960, and I flew into DW Hooks many times while giving instruction.....not far from you as I recall. :) Sugarland, West Houston, Hooks were our regular stomping grounds. I remember attending a crawfish festival in a little town north of Weiser, that was a blast. We really liked Houston. Attended some Astros games, flew down to Galveston and Corpus Christie. Met some really terrific people, some lifelong friends to this day. I also remember waiting for the afternoon thunder storms to roll in like clockwork off the Gulf and cool things down. Cheers.

[VENOM V]

Andy, great write up!!

Question- Is this set up optimized more for drag racing or the road course? I learned the hard way with my Camaro that a cam with too aggressive of lobe profiles won't live long on the road course. After blowing it up I had a new engine built. I had a cam custom designed just for the road course- gentle ramp rates, conservative lift to avoid a lunched motor in the event of a missed shift, hollow stem valves, Etc. Is this package road course worthy, will it live a long happy life in a track car?

[FLATOUT]

Road course not drag racing. a 750hp NA Viper weighing in at under 3,300lbs just happens to make a nice little roll race car too. This setup was developed on Bens GTD race car and was meant to be a factory feeling and performing option for Gen V owners. I want to say we went through at least 9 different cam profiles before they decided on this one. If they wanted a max effort really aggressive setup I am sure they could have made more power but that wasn't the goal. It was meant to be usable everywhere, street, strip, road course, and autocross. Our mule at Arrow has well over 10,000 miles on it at this point, and it running like a champ.

Andy


Andy, great write up!!

Question- Is this set up optimized more for drag racing or the road course? I learned the hard way with my Camaro that a cam with too aggressive of lobe profiles won't live long on the road course. After blowing it up I had a new engine built. I had a cam custom designed just for the road course- gentle ramp rates, conservative lift to avoid a lunched motor in the event of a missed shift, hollow stem valves, Etc. Is this package road course worthy, will it live a long happy life in a track car?

[FLATOUT]

That's cool sounds like you know the area really well. Looking forward to seeing you again.

Andy


Now you're talkin'!!!! Actually, my wife, kids, and I were in Montreal at Circuit du Gilles Villineuve for the F1 race last month (awesome btw), and I've told her I reeeeeeeeeally want to go to COA to see that one as well. That track looks gorgeous!!!!! It happens in the fall, and I just don't think we can get it together for this year, but next year, oh yaaaaaah. F1 + Aunt visit + headers/cam etc. Many birds with one stone.

Edit - Just as a side note, hey Andy, I was a flight instructor down at Weiser Field back in the summer of '99. My wife and I were down on FM 1960, and I flew into DW Hooks many times while giving instruction.....not far from you as I recall. :) Sugarland, West Houston, Hooks were our regular stomping grounds. I remember attending a crawfish festival in a little town north of Weiser, that was a blast. We really liked Houston. Attended some Astros games, flew down to Galveston and Corpus Christie. Met some really terrific people, some lifelong friends to this day. I also remember waiting for the afternoon thunder storms to roll in like clockwork off the Gulf and cool things down. Cheers.

[VENOM V]

Road course not drag racing. a 750hp NA Viper weighing in at under 3,300lbs just happens to make a nice little roll race car too. This setup was developed on Bens GTD race car and was meant to be a factory feeling and performing option for Gen V owners. I want to say we went through at least 9 different cam profiles before they decided on this one. If they wanted a max effort really aggressive setup I am sure they could have made more power but that wasn't the goal. It was meant to be usable everywhere, street, strip, road course, and autocross. Our mule at Arrow has well over 10,000 miles on it at this point, and it running like a champ.

Andy

Sounds like you guys bulls-eyed it, Andy. Nice work. I am planning to keep my future ACR stock for now but who knows down the road.

Todd

[Jack B]

None of the words matter, install it or you will
be left behind


Okay, okay, 3rd gear only roll race, who wins? ET car or MPH car? Lol. Of course ET will always play a part in everything, shifting quickness, traction etc..

I get your point too, all in good fun!

[Darius]

Everyone is with you, but, keep in mind mph will not win you the race. I would prefer 120 mph with a 10.5 et.

I'd rather run a 12.0 at 170!

[FLATOUT]

I'd rather run a 12.0 at 170!

Big POWA! LoL

[Rapidrezults]

I'd rather run a 12.0 at 170!

Exactly! Haha

[TexasSnake]

I want to say we went through at least 9 different cam profiles before they decided on this one.

Andy

Are any of the other 8 tested cam profiles or a more aggressive cam available that just sounds pure freaking nasty? I've been thinking about the heads/cam package since dropping my car off earlier but must admit I would prefer something with a nasty obnoxious lope to it.

While these cars are not capable of sounding like the old big block muscle cars, my 05 sounded badass when I attempted it and had an aggressive sounding cam with a nasty lope to it.

- Justin

[LmeaViper]

[QUOTE=lochnessmonster;147651]I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.

You could literally go your whole life up here and never actually see a Viper on the road. I like to think my car is more rare than a Ferrari, or a Lambo, and I'm probably right. As a result, we just don't have the "talent pool" to draw from. Unless someone else in the VOA has some suggestions, it's gonna take a trip back to my homeland to get the job done. Not a big deal. I've got an Aunt in Austin who'd love to have me stop in sometime :)[/QUOT

A bit of a side bar here, however wondering where the comment..only 3 GTS' brought to Canada in 2013 came from?
If this is true, then my car is one of the 3 as well. My warranty expires in Aug 2016...

[LmeaViper]

Road course not drag racing. a 750hp NA Viper weighing in at under 3,300lbs just happens to make a nice little roll race car too. This setup was developed on Bens GTD race car and was meant to be a factory feeling and performing option for Gen V owners. I want to say we went through at least 9 different cam profiles before they decided on this one. If they wanted a max effort really aggressive setup I am sure they could have made more power but that wasn't the goal. It was meant to be usable everywhere, street, strip, road course, and autocross. Our mule at Arrow has well over 10,000 miles on it at this point, and it running like a champ.

Andy

750 NA at 3300lbs would be incredible ~ 640 RWHP is that what we are talking about?

[FLATOUT]

750 NA at 3300lbs would be incredible ~ 640 RWHP is that what we are talking about?

Should make 650-660 SAE on a dyno jet once the car is broken in. Arrow made 650 SAE on a mustang dyno with the mule car. That car now has 10,000 miles on it.

[VENOM V]

Should make 650-660 SAE on a dyno jet once the car is broken in. Arrow made 650 SAE on a mustang dyno with the mule car. That car now has 10,000 miles on it.

I just sprouted wood.

[Nine Ball]

If someone threw me the keys to a 600 rwhp Gen 5 Viper, and a set of keys to a 650 rwhp Gen 5 Viper, I guarantee I'd put down a quicker ET and faster mph in the 650 car. :)

[lochnessmonster]

[QUOTE=lochnessmonster;147651]I think that is the biggest problem for those of us up here in the GWN eh. Finding qualified/experienced people to work on these cars isn't easy. The problem stems from the fact that, for example, in 2013 there were 3 GTS Vipers brought into Canada, and I am driving one of them. And the only reason I got a hold of mine is because the owner of the dealership got his hands on the car by agreeing with Chrysler to take on several "less desirable" cars with the deal.

You could literally go your whole life up here and never actually see a Viper on the road. I like to think my car is more rare than a Ferrari, or a Lambo, and I'm probably right. As a result, we just don't have the "talent pool" to draw from. Unless someone else in the VOA has some suggestions, it's gonna take a trip back to my homeland to get the job done. Not a big deal. I've got an Aunt in Austin who'd love to have me stop in sometime :)[/QUOT

A bit of a side bar here, however wondering where the comment..only 3 GTS' brought to Canada in 2013 came from?
If this is true, then my car is one of the 3 as well. My warranty expires in Aug 2016...

Hi Lmea Viper, that is what I was told by the owner of the dealership in Hanna, AB. I bought my car from him. I haven't tried to verify this, but if it's true, then you, I, and Claude are the three. I do recall seeing some import/export numbers somewhere. I'll see if I can cross check it.

[lochnessmonster]

Here is a link to the production numbers etc. for the Viper since '92. https://theviperstore.com/Information_Viper_Production_Stats.htm

Unfortunately, as you can see, it doesn't look like they kept track after '06. The numbers might have been too low to justify keeping track????? Not sure.

[Jack B]

Search for a viper Jeff thead, he has the numbers, it might be on the vca


Here is a link to the production numbers etc. for the Viper since '92. https://theviperstore.com/Information_Viper_Production_Stats.htm

Unfortunately, as you can see, it doesn't look like they kept track after '06. The numbers might have been too low to justify keeping track????? Not sure.

[Jack B]

You are not normal


Here is a link to the production numbers etc. for the Viper since '92. https://theviperstore.com/Information_Viper_Production_Stats.htm

Unfortunately, as you can see, it doesn't look like they kept track after '06. The numbers might have been too low to justify keeping track????? Not sure.


If someone threw me the keys to a 600 rwhp Gen 5 Viper, and a set of keys to a 650 rwhp Gen 5 Viper, I guarantee I'd put down a quicker ET and faster mph in the 650 car. :)

[lochnessmonster]

Nice. Thanx Jack B. I'll check that out.

I just found this article as well that states less than 600 (both SRT/GTS) were sold in 2013: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2014/0708/Chrysler-restarts-Dodge-Viper-production-after-temporary-hiatus

Edit - I found the ViperJeff thread at the VCA, and the registry numbers are the same: http://www.theviperregistry.org/build.php

It doesn't look like it has been updated since 2008 for countries other than the U.S.

I think it's safe to say, if less than 600 were sold in 2013 worldwide, and a percentage of those came to Canada (SRT/GTS), and then you take a percentage of that as being just the GTS models, 3 is entirely possible. I figured the owner of the dealership got his information from a reliable source like Chrysler etc.

[Chorps]

Sales numbers can be found here (including Canadian breakout).

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/dodge-viper-sales-figures.html

[lochnessmonster]

Nice Chorps!!! That looks like the most accurate listing I've seen. The 591 total sold for 2013 does match the article I found, so they back each other up. By the looks of it 52 total were "sold" in '13 (SRT/GTS). Now, the big question is, how many of those were GTS models? and How many of them were "brought into the country" by the end of 2013? I would think it would be higher than 3, but at $135,000 (taxes in), maybe not.........????????

I think the hardest part of figuring this out is both, which are SRT and which are GTS models, and also when did they actually arrive in Canada. My dealer's assertion that only three GTS models were "brought into Canada" in 2013 could be correct but it is too hard to tell. Either way, I think my main point was that the Gen V Viper is extremely rare in Canada, so it's hard to find someone competent to make modifications. There have been a total of 250 Gen V's "sold" in Canada since 2013. Probably not enough to support an aftermarket tuning industry........

But, I've only owned the car for two months now, and I am making a fairly broad assumption here, so please let me know if there is someone in Western Canada who you would trust to properly install and tune this modification. As much as I enjoy Texas, it would be nice to have someone close by to work on the car.


Edit - just for fun, I ran the numbers. Currently, Canada ranks 13th in the world for cars per 1000 people at 607. The latest stats say Canada's population is 35.16 million. So, now my math isn't all that great, but I think that works out to 21,342,120 cars in the country, roughly. Of those, we can figure about 250 are Gen V Vipers, and of that amount only a fraction are GTS models. That means that 1 in about 85,000 cars is a Gen V Viper, or 0.0000117139%. I don't know what the ratio of SRT/GTS models is, but I would venture to say 1 in 100,000 cars are a GTS. Rare indeed. Man that's cool. Um, clearly, I have way too much time on my hands...............

[FLATOUT]

You are not normal

Well I made a pull today and got video of running a stock 15. Nice results, and not it's not hard to realize that a car with 50rwhp will be faster and quicker in the quarter, just put a tire on it.

[Gonabite]

Well I made a pull today and got video of running a stock 15. Nice results, and not it's not hard to realize that a car with 50rwhp will be faster and quicker in the quarter, just put a tire on it.


Sooooo..... The results are??? Graph perhaps?

[LmeaViper]

Nice Chorps!!! That looks like the most accurate listing I've seen. The 591 total sold for 2013 does match the article I found, so they back each other up. By the looks of it 52 total were "sold" in '13 (SRT/GTS). Now, the big question is, how many of those were GTS models? and How many of them were "brought into the country" by the end of 2013? I would think it would be higher than 3, but at $135,000 (taxes in), maybe not.........????????

I think the hardest part of figuring this out is both, which are SRT and which are GTS models, and also when did they actually arrive in Canada. My dealer's assertion that only three GTS models were "brought into Canada" in 2013 could be correct but it is too hard to tell. Either way, I think my main point was that the Gen V Viper is extremely rare in Canada, so it's hard to find someone competent to make modifications. There have been a total of 250 Gen V's "sold" in Canada since 2013. Probably not enough to support an aftermarket tuning industry........

But, I've only owned the car for two months now, and I am making a fairly broad assumption here, so please let me know if there is someone in Western Canada who you would trust to properly install and tune this modification. As much as I enjoy Texas, it would be nice to have someone close by to work on the car.


Edit - just for fun, I ran the numbers. Currently, Canada ranks 13th in the world for cars per 1000 people at 607. The latest stats say Canada's population is 35.16 million. So, now my math isn't all that great, but I think that works out to 21,342,120 cars in the country, roughly. Of those, we can figure about 250 are Gen V Vipers, and of that amount only a fraction are GTS models. That means that 1 in about 85,000 cars is a Gen V Viper, or 0.0000117139%. I don't know what the ratio of SRT/GTS models is, but I would venture to say 1 in 100,000 cars are a GTS. Rare indeed. Man that's cool. Um, clearly, I have way too much time on my hands...............

Geez, I hate to think I took several hours out of your life with my original question. Seems unlikely that there were only 3 GTS' in that group, and the 3 of us are on here. But you never know for sure. BTW, my uncle is a dealer and I am not sure I would have believed him if he told me the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -

[LmeaViper]

Should make 650-660 SAE on a dyno jet once the car is broken in. Arrow made 650 SAE on a mustang dyno with the mule car. That car now has 10,000 miles on it.



OK awesome. Was wondering about how a Cam affects Tq? What can we reasonably expect?

[lochnessmonster]

No worries. I had just accepted it as the truth, and your question made me want to do some research. But more to the point of this thread, are there any good Viper mechanics in AB that you would trust to do this install?

[J TNT]

Thanks Andy for all the updates ! Do you see the Gen 5 Heads and cam package being offered / updated to work on Gen 4 And GEN 3 Vipers ? It may help re-coup your R&D Costs through volume sold . fwiw

Jay

[FLATOUT]

Thanks Andy for all the updates ! Do you see the Gen 5 Heads and cam package being offered / updated to work on Gen 4 And GEN 3 Vipers ? It may help re-coup your R&D Costs through volume sold . fwiw

Jay

Jay we are absolutely doing a Gen IV package with ViperExchange/Arrow.

[J TNT]

Thanks for the quick response Andy !
Any thoughts toward Gen 3 Viper ?
I believe they had higher sales volumes , could be a win /win for both parties .

[ViperSmith]

I think it is great VE kept lips shut until something was basically able to be shown. Now that it is getting closer we are seeing demos and real world data.

We've seen quite a few come and go "We are building something sick" and just nothing happens.

But, if Arrow is involved I don't think the outcome is unexpected :)

[FLATOUT]

Agree, same guys building and calibrating your factory motor for the assembly line. Doesn't get much better than that.


I think it is great VE kept lips shut until something was basically able to be shown. Now that it is getting closer we are seeing demos and real world data.

We've seen quite a few come and go "We are building something sick" and just nothing happens.

But, if Arrow is involved I don't think the outcome is unexpected :)

[lochnessmonster]

That is the most impressive thing I noted with respect to this build. When I saw Dick is involved, I got the impression, "these guys are serious." Clearly the development of the modification is critical to reliability and net gains. Guys like me don't want to spend 100K on a car, and then take a huge risk if we choose to add some power down the road. I'm not much of a gambler to begin with. Seeing the R & D you guys are investing in this mod provides a great deal of confidence for someone like me who wouldn't even consider f@$#ing with the car when it is as good as it is right out of the box. Very cool.