Just crashed my TA. Feel free to punch me.

[Bryan Savage]

On the road from Williamsport to go watch the SportsCar races at Watkins Glen.

Of course I had to take the Viper. Gots to represent, you know?

Only it's going to rain the whole weekend. And it's raining now. And it's raining pretty hard.

Corsas have 9,800 miles, one track day at Pocono, and Viper Days 2.0 at VIR on them.

ESC set to rain mode.

Driving close to the speed limit in a 65mph zone.

US 15 is fairly recently been repaved. No time to wear in wet and dry lines.

Racetrack-smooth asphalt turned to wet glass. No issues with wandering for the first 50 miles of the trip.

Cruise control on, right lane, and for seemingly no reason, the rear end decides to try and pass the front, swinging out to the right.

Apply correction, and the whole car begins to drift, so when the rear comes back around, I'm in the left lane, and the LR finds some grip in the rumbles, sending the front the other way.

Apply some correction the opposite way, but it's gone. Headed towards the edge of the mountain, but luckily there's a guard rail there.

I try to stop in time letting the ABS do what it can. Car continues to rotate clockwise.

Another five or ten feet of shoulder and I would have made it, but nope.

Left front smacks the rail at 15ish mph and spins the car around, coming to a rest facing the wrong way.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-06-27%2007.27.24_zpsrqdpuync.jpg

Car still ran fine. No cooling system compromise. No steering or brake issues either, so hobbled the car to the next exit to call insurance and a tow. Car felt really nervous on the way there, but that could have been me.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-06-27%2008.15.39_zpsnv9yu5uz.jpg

"Looks" like cosmetic and body panel damage. I didn't want to try to mess with anything. Filed a claim and had plenty of witnesses. I'll be contacted by an adjuster to assess the car, so until then, it's home in the garage. Cost $484.00 for the tow home.

The list of "should've"s for this incident is a long one, and I'll have a long time to mull over them all, so I won't bother listing them. None of them help me now. I just feel bad and stupid for this. I like to think I did all I could have in this situation, but here we are. Ultimately, it's just a car. I'm not injured. Nobody else was injured. The airbags didn't go off, so hopefully the damage is repairable without totalling the car.

If you see anyone riding a bicycle to Watkins Glen tomorrow, it's probably me.

Meanwhile, here's a few other photos.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20003_zpsoisfiekf.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20017_zpstgh108mg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20018_zpseig0gk43.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20011_zpsdnl0ewhi.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20009_zpsusckzhfg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20008_zpsjpnw4qy3.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20006_zpsovg4qm9t.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20005_zpsdu12mvyl.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20004_zpslxzkzxik.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20012_zpspnbx14v0.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20013_zpsgexwnelg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20026_zpszf0zgspz.jpg

I'll update this thread as repairs or whatever transpire.

[ViperSmith]

Man that sucks! Doesn't look terrible though.

How much tread on the Corsas. On the highway in rain I always stick to under the speed limit even in rain mode.

Look at the bright side - could have been worse.

See if you can keep the hood for garage decorations :-)

[LmeaViper]

Oh man that sucks.

I drive my car home in the rain and snow on the hwy and it was fairly butt puckering at times.

[ViperGTS]

You (and ESC) cant overcome physics. Friction coefficient. Mass. Speed. Inertia...

69 in the rain is too fast. I recommend with "normal" tires: 50 mph!

Semi slicks (corsa) and xx,xxx miles?
Way too fast.

How do I know?
I crashed one too...

Cruise control "on" - very bad idea in the rain.

You are alive: +++

[08viperviolet]

Hi Brian
Sorry to hear that hope it gets fixed soon. One of the other 2 from vir.

[Zybane]

Sorry to hear. Cruise control in rain = trouble. Especially in a car like this.

[lochnessmonster]

Heartbreaking for sure!!!!!!!!!!! But, as they say, all wounds heal with time, and the damage looks like a "flesh wound": not that bad, still drivable, engine/cooling operational, no worries.

As with any of us, your pride is going to take the biggest hit. You can "Monday morning quarterback" this type of incident until you have to be institutionalized. It's not worth it. Life is full of lessons, and some of them are hard to swallow. The car will be fixed, you will be back on the road, and you will be armed with some valuable knowledge the next time, which, without this having happened, could result in a much more serious outcome. Hang in there......

[swexlin]

Bryan, very sorry to hear this. I met you at Carlisle last summer, when I still had my 03. I drove the 03 out the turnpike to Carlisle a couple times in very wet conditions (on PS2s) but never more than about 40-45, and it was fine. In fact, it was a day just like this (pouring here in Chester County). Haven't had this 13 in any really wet conditions yet, but, my Corsas with now 8800 miles on them look pretty good.

I know you're feeling terrible, and the good thing is, you are OK, it could have been much worse. The combination of cruise control + speed, could have been a factor, but who knows? Don't beat yourself up over it. Keep on your insurance company, pick a body shop that specialize in high end cars, and go from there. Are you still coming to Carlisle in 2 weeks? Hope to see you there.

Scott

[ViperTony]

Sorry to see this Bryan, I hope you're OK. Maybe it's time to upgrade to the ACR? :D Can I buy your wheels off your TA 2.0? Too soon? :witless: Hang in there.

[Murpowa]

So sorry to see a thread like this but definitely can appreciate your positive outlook. Hope the damage is repairable and you return to enjoying it soon

[99RT10]

Dude, so sorry to see that. Airbag didn't deploy? Fixable then.

[Steve-Indy]

Sorry, Bryan...glad you are OK.

Good insights from sever posters.

As I thought about above, it occurred to me that there is obviously no automatic override on the cruise control when rain mode has been selected. Interesting. Admittedly, I don't use the cruise control on our 2014...so I really have no insights into the system interactions or lack thereof.

[TIME]

Hi Bryan,
So sorry to see that. Hope you get it fixed well.

[ACRucrazy]

Bummer for #37. Glad you are OK!
Cruise in the rain/snow is not a good thing. Can't imagine it at speed in a Viper with Corsas.

[SRT BILL]

Don't be to hard on yourself in time all will be good again.

[Chorps]

Glad you are safe and that no one else got hurt. An crash like this isn't the end of the world although it does bruise the ego.

[XSTAR]

Glad all are ok! Cars can always be fixed and or replaced.

[XSnake]

Really sorry to hear. Glad you are ok though

[TrackAire]

The key is you're not hurt.

Look at it this way, the rainy day and wreck is Gods ways of saying you deserve either a TA 2.0 or a new Gen 5 ACR!!

Never use cruise control in the rain with a high performance car on fat tires....if you ever watch how it works, it is constantly increasing and decreasing the throttle trying to keep you exactly at 69 mph. It may have "surged" the throttle just at the wrong time and broke the rear a little loose.

[lochnessmonster]

For any of you interested, this is an equation I used in my previous career as an airline pilot:

Horne's equation says that Vp (velocity at which hydroplaning will occur) = 9 x (square root of tire pressure). So, if your tire has 35psi, the square root of that is 5.92 Multiply that value by 9 = 53.24 mph. Now, keep in mind that this equation is typically applied to aircraft tires, but it is useful in providing a rough guide for operation in wet conditions for car tires as well. On a smooth surface like the one Bryan was driving on, you are safe at about 55 mph and below, assuming your tire pressure is 35 psi. Anything above 55 mph and you are getting into the realm where hydroplaning is a very real possibility. You will also note that the speed at which hydroplaning may occur is directly proportional to your tire pressure. So, increasing your tire pressure provides an increase in Vp.

The tires on commercial aircraft are typically running in excess of 100 psi

[kdaviper]

I'm gonna guess your car felt nervous because the rim is caked with mud on one side and horribly out of balance.

[ViperPete]

Dang man... I'm so sorry.

I drove the Viper home from St Augustine last month in the rain. That was a scary experience. The roads weren't crowned properly and the Viper was scary to drive. I could barely keep up with a Maxima that was in front of me doing the speed limit.

With these super wide tires the weight of the car is spread out over such a wide space that it's easy to hydroplane in them.

Glad you're ok.

[FrgMstr]

Lucky you are only a jackass, and not a dead jackass. Stick you a set of Michelin Super Sports in the garage for days like those.

[TexasSnake]

You described my wreck to a Tee when I wrecked my 05 SRT in 2010 and slid / spun to the edge of a retention pond and the car gently took sail thinking it was a boat....amazing how long it floated with the top down. Insurance totaled and 5 years later I just bought my Gen V a few months ago (need to update profile...just found out VCA split).

Don't beat yourself up and believe it or not you'll look back and find humor in this in the future. The time without your Viper will make you appreciate it that much more and be extra careful in the future!

Happy you and everyone that was in proximity is okay!

Justin

[FrgMstr]

Removed.

[TexasSnake]

You described my wreck to a Tee when I wrecked my 05 SRT in 2010 and slid / spun to the edge of a retention pond and the car gently took sail thinking it was a boat....amazing how long it floated with the top down. Insurance totaled and 5 years later I just bought my Gen V a few months ago (need to update profile...just found out VCA split).

Don't beat yourself up and believe it or not you'll look back and find humor in this in the future. The time without your Viper will make you appreciate it that much more and be extra careful in the future!

Happy you and everyone that was in proximity is okay!

Justin

Sorry but I have to put a disclaimer...I had Nitto Invos and it was a dry day...lol...

[mikesax]

At least your OK Brian-that's ALL that really matters in the end!! 50-55 is where I am on rainy days like today in my Vipers-the lovely oil drenched highways in Jersey along with a variety of other factors dictate that speed to me!!

[FLATOUT]

So sorry Bryan:( It was great meeting you last week at ViperExchange. If there's anything I can do to help on my end please let me know.

[Bryan Savage]

You (and ESC) cant overcome physics. Friction coefficient. Mass. Speed. Inertia...

69 in the rain is too fast. I recommend with "normal" tires: 50 mph!

Semi slicks (corsa) and xx,xxx miles?
Way too fast.

How do I know?
I crashed one too...

Cruise control "on" - very bad idea in the rain.

You are alive: +++


Sorry to hear. Cruise control in rain = trouble. Especially in a car like this.


For any of you interested, this is an equation I used in my previous career as an airline pilot:

Horne's equation says that Vp (velocity at which hydroplaning will occur) = 9 x (square root of tire pressure). So, if your tire has 35psi, the square root of that is 5.92 Multiply that value by 9 = 53.24 mph. Now, keep in mind that this equation is typically applied to aircraft tires, but it is useful in providing a rough guide for operation in wet conditions for car tires as well. On a smooth surface like the one Bryan was driving on, you are safe at about 55 mph and below, assuming your tire pressure is 35 psi. Anything above 55 mph and you are getting into the realm where hydroplaning is a very real possibility. You will also note that the speed at which hydroplaning may occur is directly proportional to your tire pressure. So, increasing your tire pressure provides an increase in Vp.

The tires on commercial aircraft are typically running in excess of 100 psi


70mph in the rain on worn tracked R compounds? Lucky you are only a jackass, and not a dead jackass. Stick you a set of Michelin Super Sports in the garage for days like those.

Thanks for the support, everyone, the advice, and also thanks for the tip on the hydroplaning speed. I read an article about it here (http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1147.pdf). There's a lot of it that was tested in a controlled environment, and the equations were found to be too liberal for the experimental results!

The bottom line is that I baked a pizza, topped with too much speed, too little tire, too much water, and too little friction, and then I took a huge bite of it. There's nobody else to blame for how it ended up tasting.

Many of you have already had your experiences with this type of thing and now I've had mine. I hope it's the only one!

If this can help anyone else not share my pain (or, rather, my car's), then the point of this thread hasn't been missed.

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

Glad Your Ok Bud , Fix It Then Sell It !!!!!

[Bruce H.]

Really sorry to hear that Bryan, and glad there were no personal injuries.

[v10enomous]

Don't sweat it Bryan... It's just a car and that's what insurance is for. It was only last weekend that I was admiring your car... Hopefully you are back up and running soon. Better times ahead for sure.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/Bryan%20TA%20and%20Me_zpsu7t8saq1.jpg

[swexlin]

I will say Bryan it's very cool you that use the car for what it's intended: driving! You've had it about a year, right? You put the same mileage on it annually as I put on m daily driver Dart! Once it's fixed up, then comes the decision to keep it or sell it. Since it seems like the damage is mainly cosmetic, probably best to keep it an continue to enjoy!

[FrgMstr]

Many of you have already had your experiences with this type of thing and now I've had mine. I hope it's the only one!

If this can help anyone else not share my pain (or, rather, my car's), then the point of this thread hasn't been missed.

Oh brother, you are not alone. It's just plastic and metal. :) Long as you are safe, who really gives a shit. ;)

http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/Viper_Wrecked_1_1024.jpg

[IndyRon]

Glad you are OK and the car isn't a total loss. That said, why drive the Viper at all if it is already raining and going to do so for the rest of the day...R compounds or not? These cars aren't fun to drive in the rain...NO traction whatsoever and driving it 15 below like a grandma and worrying every second just doesn't seem like any fun to me. 355's and rain = garage for me.

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

Glad your ok Bryan
I drive my Gen 5 a lot in the rain. It just turned 25,000 miles and the rear tires made it 15,000 fronts 18,000 the tread still looked good but I could feel the rear getting loose
The car can be fixed and your pride will heal plus you learned a great lesson, did not die and are a more experienced driver now. Also I bet you wish you spent more time on the skid pad at VIR
Please let me know if I can do anything to help you.
Wayne

[Schen]

Waking up in the RV to a photo of your car followed by an expletive was a bummer, but at least you picked up the phone. That was a relief! We found Chris and heard his side of the story. We know you love your car, but as long as you're ok that's what counts! All on track activities have been canceled for today so were watching movies in the camper.

Keep in touch Bryan!

--RS

[swexlin]

Glad you are OK and the car isn't a total loss. That said, why drive the Viper at all if it is already raining and going to do so for the rest of the day...R compounds or not? These cars aren't fun to drive in the rain...NO traction whatsoever and driving it 15 below like a grandma and worrying every second just doesn't seem like any fun to me. 355's and rain = garage for me.

Generally agree, but sometimes you gotta drive. It seems every year, on the day I have to drive to Carlisle, it's downpouring! Just have to drive like your great grandma! Bryan loves driving his car, more power to him!

[lochnessmonster]

Thanks for the support, everyone, the advice, and also thanks for the tip on the hydroplaning speed. I read an article about it here (http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1147.pdf). There's a lot of it that was tested in a controlled environment, and the equations were found to be too liberal for the experimental results!

There are a lot of factors that go into determining at what speed a tire will hydroplane. The road surface, the depth of the standing water, the tire's tread pattern, tire pressure, etc. etc. That being said, the equation I provided, Horne's equation, is widely used throughout the aviation industry, and I think we all can agree that we don't see aircraft sliding off the runway often.

I will say this, with complete confidence, below the speed provided by Horne's equation you are pretty safe, provided you use judicious amounts of throttle input, and avoid significant lateral loads. Above the speed provided by Horne's equation, you are asking for trouble. I think the important thing for people to take away from this, and I agree, if your post helps prevent future incidents like this, it is worth it, is that the speed you are travelling is absolutely related to the likelihood that your tire will hydroplane. Maintaining a speed of 55 mph and below in wet conditions will provide a significant margin of safety.

Anyway, hang in there Bryan. I'm glad you posted your experience. I think there is a lot to be learned here.

[Dman]

Glad you're OK, could happen to anyone. Props for trying to represent vs having a garage queen.

I'm sure you'll be back on the road in no time. I second the MPSSs, I use them on a couple cars and have been good when caught in the rain. Good luck with everything.

[Vprbite]

Having not inspected a gen V up close from the repair point of view but having experience owning body shops, looking at the pictures it looks like it isn't that bad. Especially if it drove fine and no fluid leaks. Probably a simple panel replace. Not a terrible color to blend. I bet it comes out fine. Obviously, the parts will be pricey, but we know that and that's why our insurance is more than a Honda civic.

I also can't specifically say that this is a viper specific wreck. I mean, my truck with mud tires could also have had problems. Sure, there are water channels but it's also not designed to be great on wet pavement. New pavement especially may have been very slick. Factor in that there may have been a bit of extra oil on top because the rain floated it and it seems like it could have happened to anyone.

Car accidents are impossible to diagram front the physics perspective, so ones that don't look bad can be and ones that look terrible can be easy on the driver. Bottom line, good thing you are ok. And I doubt it will be a tough fix for a good shop.

Best of luck.

Edit...looking again it does t even look like it messed up your door. That's good. And the front aero looks ok. That will probably get replaced anyway, but see if you can keep them. You can sell them to someone on here for cheap who chunks one on a curb or something.

Plus, I have a front fascia hung in my wall in my front room that was in a wreck and has a small crack and it looks cool up there. So same thing with that. See if you can get your hands on it. Obviously dependent on whether your insurance company buys it or considers the panels garbage. But worth a shot IMO. I'd take it off your hands for more wall art.

[swexlin]

Also curious to see how your insurance handles it. Hopefully, your premium won't be affect too much. A side note - my premium on my 2013 Dart went up 5 percent upon renewal this past February. When I questioned my agent as to why, she told me that since the Darts had now been out a couple years, cost to repair are apparently higher than originally estimated, and that is why. The companies use certain scores for vehicles, and the Dart score went up!

So, we shall see what happens as more Viper need repair. I told my agent that if I see it go up again next year, and/or the Viper, which is pricey enough, I am going to shop around. Please keep us posted on how your company treats you,

[Bluecoupe]

Glad your OK, that is the important part! the car can and will be fixed!

[dethred]

Glad you're unhurt! Always the most important result in an accident. You just made any decisions to drive in inclement weather a definite "no" for me now.

[gpearl]

Removed.

So this post was more dickish than your prior one?

[viper_eddie]

I'm not a body repair expert but it really doesn't look that bad. Seems like hood and front bumper along with one headlight need replacement. Can't tell if that side panel has been damaged.

You're OK so that's really what matters (basically what everyone here is telling you). When I bought my Gen 4 I drove it from Seattle in some pouring rain with 7 year old tires. Combine that with the alignment which made the car jump from one lame to another and it scared the crap out of me until things got dry.

[ACRucrazy]

Seeing as a hood is 10K these days I could see this being a $20K fix.

[TexasSnake]

Maybe I'm just being overly precautions but I'm still reading comments and quotes in this thread that could possibly substantiate an insurance company's denial of a claim...

You can never be too careful!

[Track Pack]

Very glad you're ok.

[viper04]

Good you are ok it's only a car and can be replaced/repaired.

[Vprbite]

Maybe I'm just being overly precautions but I'm still reading comments and quotes in this thread that could possibly substantiate an insurance company's denial of a claim...

You can never be too careful!


Doubtful. Our opinion doesn't mean anything to insurance companies and even so, you are covered even during DUI's and other rediculous stuff. So even had he admitted to something boneheaded (which he clearly did not) it's still covered. They may choose to cancel him afterwards, but that is a different story. As far as I can tell, it's a standard accident like for any car, just one that is more expensive and more cared about than most.

And yes,,easily 20k of repair from my experience. And that is not knowing what the hood costs. But that's why we have insurance.

[Vprbite]

Sorry but I have to put a disclaimer...I had Nitto Invos and it was a dry day...lol...

It was dry day the day I lost my leg in the wreck, and I had INVOs that a number of people in the know have said they may have contributed to my sliding out and the whole bit that was explained in the magazine. And ask Jon B and out his thought on Invos.

[vipertank]

Damn, sorry man. I always like reading your hilarious posts...not that this one is hilarious btw. Keep us posted.

[BeBeep]

That really sucks but glad you are okay.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Looks like it can be fixed with panels and paint. I used to travel that area from Williamsport/Muncy to Horsehead, NY when I was in the fracking business. Those roads can get nasty when the weather gets bad, especially winter time. At least you did not get injured.

[SlateEd]

oh man, Bryan so sorry to hear it! You certainly put the miles on your TA and that's awesome! sucks that rainy roadways got the best of you but I'm sure you'll be back in business before too long. no airbags = good. sounds like no suspension damage? = not likely any frame tweaking = really good.

[TexasSnake]

It was dry day the day I lost my leg in the wreck, and I had INVOs that a number of people in the know have said they may have contributed to my sliding out and the whole bit that was explained in the magazine. And ask Jon B and out his thought on Invos.

OMG! You lost your leg? I'm so sorry to hear that! I would be interested in hearing more about the Nittos...PM me if you have time. I actually liked them and even put a subsequent set on my BMW 550i.

[Viperawi]

That is really painful to see .. Glad you are OK though. We all do some stupid things and most of the time get away with it, so don't regret anything ! Fix it and run it hard again. Good luck.

[Bruce H.]

Those of you who haven't driven a Gen V in the rain would be surprised how well mannered and how much grip you do have. As with any car though you do have to drive according to the conditions. My first track day was 7 days after sitting in a Viper for the first time and it rained all day. I had only put on 500 street and highway dry weather break-in miles and didn't have a clue how it would be in the wet, or which end would lose grip first. So I played around in an unused paddock area for about 5 minutes simulating skid pad exercises and was blown away by the grip with careful use of the throttle, and how fast I could circle without it sliding...same with figure 8s. It was naturally easy to spin or slide if I gave it too much and too sudden throttle or steering input. Then I went out on the track doing over 110 mph and the only twitch I ever got was during downshifts if my rev matching wasn't bang on. Braking and cornering were all confidence inspiring. I obviously had new tires on the car, avoided driving through standing water on the track, and had invested in car control driving schools in the past. We also drove the car through a heavy rain storm during a 10 day road trip, reducing speed to a low as 40 mph at one point due to hydroplaning, with ~8000 miles on the same original Corsa tires. They're uncharacteristically good in the rain, and the regular P-Zero's are even better according to tests.

I'm never fearful of driving the Gen V in the rain on the way to, from or on the race track, but otherwise choose to only drive it in clear weather for general street use. It's good advice to invest in car control instruction and exercises to know your car's handling characteristic and limits intimately, and always drive according to road, car and driver conditions.

[Nine Ball]

Bryan, sorry to see the accident. I applaud your positive attitude on the subject, and these photos and story might help others avoid doing the same. If anything, they serve as a reminder that things can happen.

I just drove 2,500 miles in our TA about a week ago, during Power Tour. It rained half of the time, sometimes hard enough that I could only do 40 mph without hydroplaning. That was on Michelin Super Sports, and after a few events in the rain on those tires - I'm not convinced that they are good in the wet. I've run the Corsas in harder rain, and they felt more stable to me. The main issue that stuck out on your post is the use of cruise control in the rain. I've always been instructed to never do that, in any vehicle.

Tony

[Steve-Indy]

Very interesting post, lochnessmonster...should be helpful in getting all of us to pay more attention to driving our unique Beasts.

Hats off to Bryan for his very factual description of this event. I suspect many amongst us would still be looking for some scapegoat (or, more commonly, a "scapedeer" which seems to haunt Vipers).

Lots of driving insights offered in this thread...best we need same.

[v10enomous]

(or, more commonly, a "scapedeer" which seems to haunt Vipers).



I couldn't find "scapedeer" in the dictionary... yet

[Fatboy 18]

First off, Glad that You are OK (but i'm sure pride has been dented).

No one got hurt, fantastic.

Good and Honest of you to post pics too.

Best of luck getting the repairs sorted out.

If its any consolation I reversed into a flower pot yesterday and have scratched my rear bumper and it now requires a re-spray :(

[I Bin Therbefor]

Several years ago, my parents had a bad accident using speed control during a heavy rain in an ordinary, front wheel drive sedan.

Learned then, do not use speed control in the rain or under any marginal traction conditions.

Glad you're well - car looks very fixable.

[Steve M]

As much as it sucks to hear a story like this, I can honestly say that I've never been told to not use cruise control in the rain, although it makes sense now that I really think about it. That is something I will pass along to my wife, and my kid when she's ready to drive in about 15 years.

Sorry to hear about the accident, but thanks to those that have chimed in with insights like this.

[v10enomous]

Just out of curiosity...

What's the best Rain Tire for a GenV for daily driving or if tracking or racing is not a big priority ?

[Nine Ball]

Just out of curiosity...

What's the best Rain Tire for a GenV for daily driving or if tracking or racing is not a big priority ?

I'm going to vote Pirelli PZero (non-Corsa) or Nitto Invo. I've run all of the popular tires, on several cars. Invo's don't handle very well at the road course, but they ride smooth, have excellent straight-line traction, and work well in rain. I'm most disappointed by my Michelin Pilot Super Sports, to be honest. Not nearly as good in rain as the others, but they handle at the track VERY well for a street tire.

[Chorps]

Bryan, sorry to see the accident. I applaud your positive attitude on the subject, and these photos and story might help others avoid doing the same. If anything, they serve as a reminder that things can happen.

I just drove 2,500 miles in our TA about a week ago, during Power Tour. It rained half of the time, sometimes hard enough that I could only do 40 mph without hydroplaning. That was on Michelin Super Sports, and after a few events in the rain on those tires - I'm not convinced that they are good in the wet. I've run the Corsas in harder rain, and they felt more stable to me. The main issue that stuck out on your post is the use of cruise control in the rain. I've always been instructed to never do that, in any vehicle.

Tony

I had great confidence in my MPSCs in the ACR, did 110-130kph in pouring rain on a road trip two years ago. I was giving a bit of overthrottle to see how the rear end would step out and it was very linear, no worries or problems at all (other than cruising range, tank is too small). Mostly straight line stuff nothing too crazy.

Of course the following week I spin it after washing the car and taking a turn too fast after...those tires like to warmed up first...MPSCs don't like to be cold. They were 7 years old and got replaced after that.

[ACRucrazy]

As much as it sucks to hear a story like this, I can honestly say that I've never been told to not use cruise control in the rain, although it makes sense now that I really think about it. That is something I will pass along to my wife, and my kid when she's ready to drive in about 15 years.

Sorry to hear about the accident, but thanks to those that have chimed in with insights like this.

I would have to guess it's in every owners manual of every vehicle with cruise control. It's something I learned early on here in the snowy north. The first time your cruise breaks the tires loose unintentionally in the snow is something to remember.

From the 2013 Viper manual.


NOTE: The Electronic Speed Control system maintains
speed up and down hills. A slight speed change on
moderate hills is normal.
On steep hills, a greater speed loss or gain may occur so
it may be preferable to drive without Electronic Speed
Control.

WARNING!
Electronic Speed Control can be dangerous where the
system cannot maintain a constant speed. Your vehicle
could go too fast for the conditions, and you
could lose control and have an accident. Do not use
Electronic Speed Control in heavy traffic or on roads
that are winding, icy, snow-covered or slippery

2014 Users Guide


WARNING!
• Leaving the Electronic Speed Control system on when not in use is dangerous. You
could accidentally set the system or cause it to go faster than you want. You could
lose control and have a collision. Always leave the Electronic Speed Control system
off when you are not using it.
• Electronic Speed Control can be dangerous where the system cannot maintain a
constant speed. Your vehicle could go too fast for the conditions, and you could lose
control. A collision could be the result. Do not use Electronic Speed Control in heavy
traffic or on roads that are winding, icy, snow-covered or slippery.

[Steve M]

Is that the little book that sits in the glove box? The one that gets in the way of stuff I want to put in there?

[ACRucrazy]

No idea, do they still include books? LOL Thought most manufactures went to CDs or downloads.

[Steve-Indy]

Yes, it basically same thing in the 2006 Jeep Commander (Hemi) and the 2014 Chersler 300S (Hemi) manuals...and, they are automatic transmissions !!!

In my old, conservative opinion, cruise control in any stick shift car (especially in a Viper) in an unnecessary additional hazard.

[swexlin]

The only time I ever use cruise control (and of course, it was a "first" in the Gen 5 Viper), in ANY car, is on the turnpike, when I want to briefly rest my foot. Never more than a couple minutes at a time, and never in anything but DRY, and LIGHT or NO traffic conditions. I guess I'm old school, but I want to be ready in an instant if I need to make a maneuver.

[ddominator1]

hey man.. sorry about your car.. just got a chill down my spine w that one.. esp as a TA owner.. glad ok.. car can be fixed but know prob upset that she got damaged.. i would be A MESS if mine was wrecked.. AS Arnold once said "ILL BE BACK!!

[ViperPete]

The only time I ever use cruise control (and of course, it was a "first" in the Gen 5 Viper), in ANY car, is on the turnpike, when I want to briefly rest my foot. Never more than a couple minutes at a time, and never in anything but DRY, and LIGHT or NO traffic conditions. I guess I'm old school, but I want to be ready in an instant if I need to make a maneuver.


Yup me too. I only use cruise control when on a open road or if I am tired. Otherwise with traffic constantly changing speeds, I like to be in the left lane leading the pack anyway (in any of my cars)

I get nervous when my wife uses cruise control in the middle of town. Makes no sense to me, just another reason to not pay attention to what's going on IMO

[ViperSmith]

I had no idea about CC in rain either. But it makes sense thinking about it.

I do love CC for highway driving, it is a great feature.

[sambo32]

Bryan glad your ok, that's most important. Fix her up and get her back on the road.

[IndyRon]

Yes, it basically same thing in the 2006 Jeep Commander (Hemi) and the 2014 Chersler 300S (Hemi) manuals...and, they are automatic transmissions !!!

In my old, conservative opinion, cruise control in any stick shift car (especially in a Viper) in an unnecessary additional hazard.

What is this cruise control you all speak of???

[GasGas]

So many similarities: New (1k miles, gen4) coupe, back end came around, low speed hit - still drive-able, 4' to the left? = "0 damage", a few seconds I would love to have back.

New bumper cover, fender and headlight - but no hood damage being a gen4. As Herb Helbig told me (he had the same VOI10 model at the time) "stuff happens"...

[Vprbite]

What is this cruise control you all speak of???


I don't know either, Ron. Our former president and current member here in Arizona (whitesnake) had it. I think it's for old people so they can take their doans back pills and soak their feet in Epsom salts while they drive. That's as best I can figure.

Just kidding all. And OP, please take this as a sign that we are all glad you are totally fine and the damage is just cosmetic. Like I said, I don't think a good shop will even have a tough time with it and it will be good to go.

[thetalonguy]

Damn, Sorry to hear Bryan. Glad you're okay. Walking away from any accident in a Viper is a win.

Car will be fixed and you'll be cruising before you even know it.

Wish you the best of luck getting her fixed up.

[SuperBird4404BBL]

Sorry to hear about your accident. You'll be back on the road soon.

[plumcrazy]

glad youre ok, is just a car, it can be fixed. just dont do it again !

[01sapphirebob]

Bryan,

Sorry to hear about this. I caught this thread saturday night and just felt awful. I'm glad to hear you are o.k. and waled away from the accident. If there is anything I can do just let me know.

[darbgnik]

As long as nobody was hurt, it's not that bad.


For the record, I find the cruise control a great speed limiter, for highway trips. In all my other cars without it, I found the speed would creep up on me without thinking about it. Sucks getting yanked for speeding, when all you planned on doing was commuting.......

[Nine Ball]

I'm surprised so many of you haven't heard of not using cruise control in the rain. They used to lecture us on this back when I was 15, in driver's education. Some of you weren't paying attention, haha.

Example: http://www.driverseddirect.com/articles/how-to-drivie-in-the-rain.aspx

[Steve M]

I'm surprised so many of you haven't heard of not using cruise control in the rain. They used to lecture us on this back when I was 15, in driver's education. Some of you weren't paying attention, haha.

Example: http://www.driverseddirect.com/articles/how-to-drivie-in-the-rain.aspx

If they did, it was because I knew it wouldn't apply to the car I was going to be driving - no cruise control, crank windows, manual door locks. What was this gem? A 1992 Plymouth Acclaim. That car pulled so much poon...and by so much, I mean none. I think my parents knew what they were doing.

[ViperTony]

I'm surprised so many of you haven't heard of not using cruise control in the rain. They used to lecture us on this back when I was 15, in driver's education. Some of you weren't paying attention, haha.

Example: http://www.driverseddirect.com/articles/how-to-drivie-in-the-rain.aspx

I remember. If I'm not mistaken (I probably am), doesn't the owner's manual recommend not using cruise control in the rain?

[Nine Ball]

I remember. If I'm not mistaken (I probably am), doesn't the owner's manual recommend not using cruise control in the rain?

The Viper owner's manual does say not to use CC in the rain. See response #69 above.

[Fatboy 18]

I would ask for the damaged front nose and hood back from the garage and make them good for some wall Art in your Man Cave ;)

[Bryan Savage]

Too many replies to quote here, but thanks again for all the support.

It also seems like maybe there's some good knowledge being passed around. Keep it under 55 next time, kids!! I don't want to hear about anyone else doing this!

Small update: my insurance company sent an adjuster over today to assess the damage. He was a really nice guy who was a big fan of the Tudor series. Said he's been going to Watkins Glen for years.

We tried to open the hood, but were unable. The impact may have bent or at least bound up the latches, so I didn't try to force it. He surveyed all he could see and made up an estimate. In order to prevent paying out twice, he wants me to get it to a shop where they can tear it down and see what other parts need replacing. The number he came up with was less than I'd anticipated, but that doesn't include any parts we can't see. He did say they'll cover the transport to wherever I want to take it.

I was hoping that Prefix could make up a new hood and fascia in the proper colour, and then a (competent) local shop could perform the actual replacement, but after the adjuster said he thinks the doors need some paint work (where the hood rubbed on them), I just don't see how any local shop could match the quality of paint that Prefix applies. I'd rather not go down that road.

Earlier today, I sent Eric from Prefix an email asking if they might be interested in helping, so hopefully I can make that work out.

I left off my insurance company's name and the estimate dollars, as just in case that information is any kind of proprietary, I don't want to cause problems.

[swexlin]

Bryan, glad to here things are moving already. And I like your updated avatar - at least you're keeping your sense of humor! By the way, you could be by brother from another mother......damn if we don't look alike (except you have more hair!).

[repiV]

WOW!!! Really sorry to hear about your car!! It's an awesome looking Viper and I'm sure it will be again. Thankfully nobody was hurt and you learned a few things so not a bad experience in the end.

I learned the hard way about cruise control too so I think your post is great in that it reminds people how dangerous it can be in certain conditions. I'm surprised too how many people don't think about it.

It was about 20 years ago now....I was driving home late at night from a friend's house. It was about 40 degrees and raining when I left for the hour drive home. I had the cruise set on a four lane road at 65 mph. I didn't realize that the temp dropped at some point enough to start freezing the rain on the road. When the ass end starts to come around at that speed on slick roads with the cruise set there's just not enough time to possibly stop it and your first reaction to shut the cruise off is to step on the brake....also a bad thing.

I went over a 100 foot embankment....rolled the chevy s10 blazer several times...I have no idea how many...and landed upright on the wheels with the engine still running. Every body panel on the blazer was trashed and all the glass was gone. Obviously it totaled the vehicle but thankfully it was a company car!!! LOL

I was cut up some and had some bad bruises but walked away and nobody was hurt. I'm glad we both walked away to tell others about our "learning"!!!

[darbgnik]

I'm surprised so many of you haven't heard of not using cruise control in the rain. They used to lecture us on this back when I was 15, in driver's education. Some of you weren't paying attention, haha.

Example: http://www.driverseddirect.com/articles/how-to-drivie-in-the-rain.aspx

Up here in the great white north, I think it's pretty common knowledge to not use the CC in any inclement weather...... although there are many who come here from places that have never seen the white rain before.

[ViperGeorge]

Glad you're ok. That could have been really ugly. The Gen 5 Pirelli tires on our Vipers tend to hydroplane very easily, more so than the Michelins on our Gen 4s. Corsa's are not the choice for rain, PZeros would be better but I'm not convinced they are as good as the Michelin PSSs.

[FrgMstr]

I have had excellent results with the Mich Super Sports in the rain and I have logged well over a 1000 wet miles with the MSS over the last couple of years. I have been tremendously impressed with how well they will grab in the wet.

My first real experience with the MSS was driving entirely across Tennessee in a torrential downpour on my way to Tail of the Dragon. The MSS never failed me and we were not being slowpokes either.

[daveg]

Glad your OK, that's the most important thing.
Don't have to worry about using cruise control period, don't have it LOL.. Just another reason I don't drive my car in the rain. First reason is I just don't feel like cleaning it afterwards. Not sure if my car has ever seen rain.. Call me a coward / Idiot!

[serpent]

Too many replies to quote here, but thanks again for all the support.

It also seems like maybe there's some good knowledge being passed around. Keep it under 55 next time, kids!! I don't want to hear about anyone else doing this!

Small update: my insurance company sent an adjuster over today to assess the damage. He was a really nice guy who was a big fan of the Tudor series. Said he's been going to Watkins Glen for years.

We tried to open the hood, but were unable. The impact may have bent or at least bound up the latches, so I didn't try to force it. He surveyed all he could see and made up an estimate. In order to prevent paying out twice, he wants me to get it to a shop where they can tear it down and see what other parts need replacing. The number he came up with was less than I'd anticipated, but that doesn't include any parts we can't see. He did say they'll cover the transport to wherever I want to take it.

I was hoping that Prefix could make up a new hood and fascia in the proper colour, and then a (competent) local shop could perform the actual replacement, but after the adjuster said he thinks the doors need some paint work (where the hood rubbed on them), I just don't see how any local shop could match the quality of paint that Prefix applies. I'd rather not go down that road.

Earlier today, I sent Eric from Prefix an email asking if they might be interested in helping, so hopefully I can make that work out.

I left off my insurance company's name and the estimate dollars, as just in case that information is any kind of proprietary, I don't want to cause problems.
I only read the part about keeping it under 55mph. Best to not drive the car in the rain. What a nightmare if you hydroplane and crash a 2nd time doing 55.
fyi, wider tires are more susceptible to hydroplaning.

[Fatboy 18]

Wonder if its possible using some extensions on a socket wrench to undo the hood bolts from under the car?

[outnumbered]

Bryan, glad you are ok. It will be interesting to see if your insurance company entertains the idea of having Prefix possibly do the work.

[Doug Nash]

Bryan,

Very sorry to see your pics. I think I was one of your lead - follow instructors at VIR. I was driving Tom Antonelli's Comp Coupe. And met most of you all at the track or the lodge. I was grateful that it only rained the first Friday morning at VIR for this reason. Surely would have had many offs and accidents then. I can tell you that in addition to the miles your tires had on them that after the amount of time on the skid pad and then the track at VIR that the tires ' harden' some. Race tires and even aggressive compound street-track tires work on heat cycles. They will only give you the same level of grip again after achieving high temps and pressures. In 50-60 degree rain water and cold ambient temps this was working against you as well.
I took delivery of my GenV GTS after the weekend (it was the pace car) and coming home to Cincinnati hit rain. I could not believe how skidish the car was. Hope your repairs go well and you are back on the road soon.

Sincerely,
Doug Nash



On the road from Williamsport to go watch the SportsCar races at Watkins Glen.

Of course I had to take the Viper. Gots to represent, you know?

Only it's going to rain the whole weekend. And it's raining now. And it's raining pretty hard.

Corsas have 9,800 miles, one track day at Pocono, and Viper Days 2.0 at VIR on them.

ESC set to rain mode.

Driving close to the speed limit in a 65mph zone.

US 15 is fairly recently been repaved. No time to wear in wet and dry lines.

Racetrack-smooth asphalt turned to wet glass. No issues with wandering for the first 50 miles of the trip.

Cruise control on, right lane, and for seemingly no reason, the rear end decides to try and pass the front, swinging out to the right.

Apply correction, and the whole car begins to drift, so when the rear comes back around, I'm in the left lane, and the LR finds some grip in the rumbles, sending the front the other way.

Apply some correction the opposite way, but it's gone. Headed towards the edge of the mountain, but luckily there's a guard rail there.

I try to stop in time letting the ABS do what it can. Car continues to rotate clockwise.

Another five or ten feet of shoulder and I would have made it, but nope.

Left front smacks the rail at 15ish mph and spins the car around, coming to a rest facing the wrong way.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-06-27%2007.27.24_zpsrqdpuync.jpg

Car still ran fine. No cooling system compromise. No steering or brake issues either, so hobbled the car to the next exit to call insurance and a tow. Car felt really nervous on the way there, but that could have been me.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-06-27%2008.15.39_zpsnv9yu5uz.jpg

"Looks" like cosmetic and body panel damage. I didn't want to try to mess with anything. Filed a claim and had plenty of witnesses. I'll be contacted by an adjuster to assess the car, so until then, it's home in the garage. Cost $484.00 for the tow home.

The list of "should've"s for this incident is a long one, and I'll have a long time to mull over them all, so I won't bother listing them. None of them help me now. I just feel bad and stupid for this. I like to think I did all I could have in this situation, but here we are. Ultimately, it's just a car. I'm not injured. Nobody else was injured. The airbags didn't go off, so hopefully the damage is repairable without totalling the car.

If you see anyone riding a bicycle to Watkins Glen tomorrow, it's probably me.

Meanwhile, here's a few other photos.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20003_zpsoisfiekf.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20017_zpstgh108mg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20018_zpseig0gk43.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20011_zpsdnl0ewhi.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20009_zpsusckzhfg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20008_zpsjpnw4qy3.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20006_zpsovg4qm9t.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20005_zpsdu12mvyl.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20004_zpslxzkzxik.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20012_zpspnbx14v0.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20013_zpsgexwnelg.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Crash%20026_zpszf0zgspz.jpg

I'll update this thread as repairs or whatever transpire.

[Disturbed]

Sorry to hear about the wreck. Good that you are fine. Looks repairable.

And incase I missed it...


"that will buff right out"! 👍

Good time for a tire upgrade. Invo's work fantastic in the rain. 70+mph and it was fine.

In the end, what's important is that you are good, nobody was hurt and the car will be good as new soon.

[PAVenomRT/10]

Bryan,
Very sorry to hear of your accident. As others have said, you came out of this accident rather well considering all the possibilities. I remember driving my Viper home in a very bad rainstorm on my Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. One of the scariest rides I can remember without snow on the road. Car hydroplaned at anything above 55, consistent with the tire pressure equation above. Drove slowly and prayed for rain to let up.
Damage to your car appears to be cosmetic so hopefully you will be back on the road soon.
PAVenomRT/10

[Jack B]

Doug Nash

I am with you, it was multiple factors. I drove 700 miles in blinding rain on new Corsa's and could not believe the grip level.

[Bryan Savage]

We ran our cars around a wet skidpad at VIR during Viper Days 2.0, and we were all astounded at how difficult is was to get the cars to break loose, which was partly why I was so confident on the day I crashed.

I definitely learned my lesson though, and will definitely keep my speeds down in the rain from here to eternity.

UPDATE:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Loading%2001_zps1gbil6ki.jpg

The car is now at Prefix for assessment. I took this yesterday morning and didn't bother posting it at the time. Passport Transport gives a discount to VOA members, and after picking my car up, it was at Prefix in one day. I can't ask for better service than that. They were extremely easy to deal with, and you can pay online. The last time I shipped a car, I had to pay the driver cash on delivery.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/Loading%2005_zpsvnavt8dv.jpg

I got to drive the car onto the trailer, and park it above an extremely awesome original Jaguar E-Type.

Prefix is going to get the car into their Light Tunnel to have a look tomorrow. I have no idea with a Light Tunnel is, but it sounds awesome.

Traveler's Insurance will send a local rep out to assess the situation this week and see what everyone can see. Fingers crossed there's no major issues.

Cheers!

[Coloviper]

You look so sad in your avatar. You should be happy it is at Prefix, it is like the factory repairing it. Can't get any better then that. Better get the old hood back and hang on the wall in front of the car in the garage just to remind you before you drive it each time. I believe the light tunnel is just one of the booths they do final QA on final paint check. Good luck with everything.

[Murpowa]

It's in great hands Bryan!

[swexlin]

Thanks for the update Bryan. Let us know have Travelers takes care of you. I recently switched from them last year, when I bought my house, and got a better bundle with another company. But that company jacked the rates on my Dart 5% this year, because the Dart got "re-rated" for cost to repair. So, I may switch back to Travelers next year.

[2010.Blue.White.ACR]

Here is the light tunnel

[G37Sam]

That light tunnel defies the laws of gravity!! Fascinating!! :D

[ViperTony]

That light tunnel defies the laws of gravity!! Fascinating!! :D

So the room rotates and they work sideways? Awesome!!!!

[Nine Ball]

While it is at Prefix, might as well get them to paint some stripes on it or something. :)

[KB Viper]

I had mine fixed at prefix, you will not be disappointed. even the local Progressive insurance adjsuter called me after he assessed the damage on mine and told how impressed he was with prefix and went on and on about all the cool projects they were working on & state of the art equipment.

[2010.Blue.White.ACR]

So the room rotates and they work sideways? Awesome!!!!

Sure does

[bayviper]

Not sure what the mistakes were, this could have happen to anyone. Bummer, but it looks cosmetic. Maybe this is the time to upgrade to an ACR? :)

[Bryan Savage]

A quick update in case anyone cares...

Car is still at Prefix. Eric says the parts are all painted, but there's some bracket or something on backorder until September 22nd. My fingers are tied in knots being crossed so many times that I have it back before the cruise I'm supposed to help host on October 3rd. If I don't, I'll be leading it on a bicycle.

Now comes the ranting portion:

I realise that MY needs do not outweigh the rest of everyone else's at Prefix and Dodge, but I find it astounding that in this day and age, whatever part(s) that are on backorder cannot be manufactured for me. This is the flagship car that Dodge makes, and I sent it back to the OEM for repairs, and they can't get this piece. There's no inventory at the factory, no extra inventory at the supplier, and no room in the production schedule at the supplier to spit out another one of whatever it is. This amazes me.

Now, with how rapid things can change, I understand how nobody wants any inventory. It's unreasonable for me to expect any manufacturer to retain even five of every single part to every single car they make. We'd have to colonise Mars just for the warehouse space. And especially how often part numbers change and parts are updated, naturally it makes sense not to stock anything at all.

But if all the parts are painted, that means the missing piece for my car isn't a hood. I would totally understand why it takes a while to get an extra hood. But you're telling me that there are ANY vehicles in production that you could yoink my part from? They're all hand-built, so an IOU note taped to the chassis will be seen. No cars that are so early in the assembly process that it wouldn't impact delivery? No pre-production cars destined for the crusher that you can swipe my bracket (or whatever) from? No parts leftover from the Roadkill Viper that you can grab?

While I appreciate how difficult it is to build cars, and how for me to truly appreciate it, I would have to order each piece for a 500-piece puzzle individually, coordinate their delivery to a parking lot in Alaska, make sure they all arrive in the same hour, and then put this puzzle together blindfolded in the rain, but geez louise. I bet Alibaba or Amazon has my parts on the shelf.

/cracks another beer

[01sapphirebob]

A quick update in case anyone cares...

Car is still at Prefix. Eric says the parts are all painted, but there's some bracket or something on backorder until September 22nd. My fingers are tied in knots being crossed so many times that I have it back before the cruise I'm supposed to help host on October 3rd. If I don't, I'll be leading it on a bicycle.

Now comes the ranting portion:

I realise that MY needs do not outweigh the rest of everyone else's at Prefix and Dodge, but I find it astounding that in this day and age, whatever part(s) that are on backorder cannot be manufactured for me. This is the flagship car that Dodge makes, and I sent it back to the OEM for repairs, and they can't get this piece. There's no inventory at the factory, no extra inventory at the supplier, and no room in the production schedule at the supplier to spit out another one of whatever it is. This amazes me.

Now, with how rapid things can change, I understand how nobody wants any inventory. It's unreasonable for me to expect any manufacturer to retain even five of every single part to every single car they make. We'd have to colonise Mars just for the warehouse space. And especially how often part numbers change and parts are updated, naturally it makes sense not to stock anything at all.

But if all the parts are painted, that means the missing piece for my car isn't a hood. I would totally understand why it takes a while to get an extra hood. But you're telling me that there are ANY vehicles in production that you could yoink my part from? They're all hand-built, so an IOU note taped to the chassis will be seen. No cars that are so early in the assembly process that it wouldn't impact delivery? No pre-production cars destined for the crusher that you can swipe my bracket (or whatever) from? No parts leftover from the Roadkill Viper that you can grab?

While I appreciate how difficult it is to build cars, and how for me to truly appreciate it, I would have to order each piece for a 500-piece puzzle individually, coordinate their delivery to a parking lot in Alaska, make sure they all arrive in the same hour, and then put this puzzle together blindfolded in the rain, but geez louise. I bet Alibaba or Amazon has my parts on the shelf.

/cracks another beer

It's not just your car so don't get to upset. I got a recall notice for my Jeep Cherokee telling me of an issue with the rear trunklid and how it could possible CATCH FIRE! However...parts are unavailable. I'll get another notice when that happens. Just seems to be how it goes. :(

[Aspirations57]

Bryan,Thats just total BS that you have to wait that long..Way to step up Dodge...Whats going to happen when some boy racer wads his ACR at the track???? " Sorry pal maybe we can get the parts you need next year",lol

[swexlin]

Bryan, thanks for the update. I was wondering how your car was doing. No parts for our cars ever seem to be available. Hang in there, and then the day will come! Did you insurance company give you any grief over the repairs?

[ViperSmith]

lame.

[sfviper]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Fortunately, every accident makes you a better driver. When the snake bites, its pretty hard to correct. Glad you weren't hurt.

[AZTVR]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Fortunately, every accident makes you a better driver. Hopefully this somebody else's accident makes me a better driver. Reading this thread today made me think about a recent downpour I was driving in on the interstate. Maybe I was going a bit too fast.

[v10enomous]

Thanks for the update Bryan... The other day I was wondering what was going on with your car. Hope to see you back in action soon.

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

Brian if the part doesn't show up soon call me and I will pull it off my race car and send it to Eric
Thanks
Wayne
Cell 561-307-1521

[cayenne]

Brian if the part doesn't show up soon call me and I will pull it off my race car and send it to Eric
Thanks
Wayne
Cell 561-307-1521

Now that's a hero! Kudos Wayne

[Coloviper]

Also a few G5s at X2 Builders so you might want to call them and see if they can pull one off and send it with an IOU. Desperate times for desperate measures.

[Eachey51]

Brian if the part doesn't show up soon call me and I will pull it off my race car and send it to Eric
Thanks
Wayne
Cell 561-307-1521

Someone buy this man a beer!

[serpent]

OP does have a point, this car has been in production for 3 years and there are no spare parts? WTH?

[DZnutz]

^ makes me very concerned once its out of production

[SN95SNAKE]

I am very sorry to see this, looks like only body damage.

[FrankBarba]

I did not read all the posts. but if the Driver had the car in Cruise Control that is a basic rule to avoid. Would you use cruise control in the snow ?
if not why would you use in the rain ? Sorry for your loss but 2 drivers schools with out any rain training you barked up the wrong tree....
Sorry for your loss...Please never drive in the rain with your cruise control on....

[ViperDC]

Brian if the part doesn't show up soon call me and I will pull it off my race car and send it to Eric
Thanks
Wayne
Cell 561-307-1521

Props to you sir

[Bryan Savage]

It's not just your car so don't get to upset. I got a recall notice for my Jeep Cherokee telling me of an issue with the rear trunklid and how it could possible CATCH FIRE! However...parts are unavailable. I'll get another notice when that happens. Just seems to be how it goes. :(

Yeah, true that. I'd been getting door handle recall notices for a while too before parts were available. I'd like to know how many steps are required to make the parts available. I bet it would blow our minds how complicated it is.


Bryan,Thats just total BS that you have to wait that long..Way to step up Dodge...Whats going to happen when some boy racer wads his ACR at the track???? " Sorry pal maybe we can get the parts you need next year",lol

Of course, I don't know which part it is. I hadn't asked. I could be that one part on the whole car that's the toughest to get. I wouldn't think the Viper shares much with the rest of Dodge's line up, so if they use the same suppliers, that supplier is probably waist-deep in Hellcat or Trackhawk parts. Waste management is so important in keeping costs down that pretty much all manufacturing is run as lean as possible.


Bryan, thanks for the update. I was wondering how your car was doing. No parts for our cars ever seem to be available. Hang in there, and then the day will come! Did you insurance company give you any grief over the repairs?

I have Travelers Insurance, and they've been awesome. There was never any hesitation in any sort of claim denial. They sent a local rep to Prefix to inspect the car there and they've been great with communication. There just hasn't been much to report lately. They mentioned wanting me to inspect the car before they call it good though, so I hope it's soon!


Brian if the part doesn't show up soon call me and I will pull it off my race car and send it to Eric
Thanks
Wayne
Cell 561-307-1521

You're the man, Wayne, but I don't think it's necessary. I'll let Prefix do it the proper way. Probably for the same reason they can't grab the part from Trostle's Stryker Green demo car; the part can't be vouched for, and is therefore a potential liability.


There's not a lot I or Prefix can do, and I could only imagine the nightmare this would be had I chosen a local shop to handle the repairs. There'd be raccoons living in it by now.

[Bryan Savage]

Also a few G5s at X2 Builders so you might want to call them and see if they can pull one off and send it with an IOU. Desperate times for desperate measures.

Someone more aggressive than me would have been all over everyone involved and annoyed their way into getting their car back sooner, but I'm just not that way. Travelers is applying enough pressure. I'll let Prefix do what they do best, and the end result will be worth it.


I did not read all the posts. but if the Driver had the car in Cruise Control that is a basic rule to avoid. Would you use cruise control in the snow ?
if not why would you use in the rain ? Sorry for your loss but 2 drivers schools with out any rain training you barked up the wrong tree....
Sorry for your loss...Please never drive in the rain with your cruise control on....

Don't I know it!! And isn't it amazing how you can push aside your instincts for lame reasons? I was leading two other vehicles (why do I always end up leading??) and trying to set a consistent pace. I usually never use the cruise, but didn't want to be varying speeds all over the place, so ignored my instincts and paid for it.

Next time, someone else can go first.

[Viper Girl]

I was leading two other vehicles (why do I always end up leading??)
Next time, someone else can go first.

Never let a Prius lead a Viper anywhere... Even in the rain

http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/legacy.images/smosh-pit/052011/car-pikachu.jpg

There's something wrong with them... in a big way

[ViperSmith]

How awesome will it finally be when we really have full blown 3D printing and Prefix can just print the part that isn't in inventory.

Ah soon enough.

[swexlin]

Bryan, I had Travelers, and switched to a different provider when I bought my house next year. However, that provider jacked rates on my Dart (!!) this year by 5%, because the Darts are apparently more expensive to repair than thought. If they do the same thing with my Viper next year, I may go back to Travelers, especially considering your Viper experience was good.

Hoping you'll have your car back soon, only about 2 months of driving season left here.

[Bryan Savage]

Quick update:

The car is done. I'm flying out of town tomorrow evening and staying at some Red Roof Inn that "should" be walking distance from Prefix in Rochester Hills. I'll pick the car up Wednesday morning and be driving North over Lake Erie through Canada to get home. Should take about eight hours.

Oh yes. I can't wait. And if it rains, I'm driving 30mph.

[Slithr]

And if it rains, I'm driving 30mph.

With the cruise control OFF :) Glad you're getting her back, be safe.

[Murpowa]

Great news Bryan!

Next you'll have to fix that avatar

[Viper Girl]

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/socalgirlz/say-no-to-cruise-control.jpg

[swexlin]

Quick update:

The car is done. I'm flying out of town tomorrow evening and staying at some Red Roof Inn that "should" be walking distance from Prefix in Rochester Hills. I'll pick the car up Wednesday morning and be driving North over Lake Erie through Canada to get home. Should take about eight hours.

Oh yes. I can't wait. And if it rains, I'm driving 30mph.

Excellent, and congrats!

[Bryan Savage]

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/socalgirlz/say-no-to-cruise-control.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!! I DESERVE THIS!!!

Also, that should be a t-shirt.

[01sapphirebob]

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/socalgirlz/say-no-to-cruise-control.jpg

That is FUNNY!!!


Quick update:

The car is done. I'm flying out of town tomorrow evening and staying at some Red Roof Inn that "should" be walking distance from Prefix in Rochester Hills. I'll pick the car up Wednesday morning and be driving North over Lake Erie through Canada to get home. Should take about eight hours.

Oh yes. I can't wait. And if it rains, I'm driving 30mph.

Great news Bryan! Just in time to put the car away for the season. :(

[ViperSmith]

That is FUNNY!!!



Great news Bryan! Just in time to put the car away for the season. :(
I'll gladly drive it for him this winter.

[mikesax]

So Bryan-in addition to congratulations and the like-have you thought of what "expression" will accompanying your new photo-I believe the "sad" look will have to take a back seat soon?!?!!

[Bryan Savage]

Great news Bryan! Just in time to put the car away for the season. :(

Pshaw!!! How am I supposed to make it to the Ohio party without it??



So Bryan-in addition to congratulations and the like-have you thought of what "expression" will accompanying your new photo-I believe the "sad" look will have to take a back seat soon?!?!!

Don't you worry. I've got an idea!

[Vprbite]

If it's rainig you could always just hang out for another day and wait for it to pass.

Congratulations on getting the car back. Im glad that a TA was not lost to the scrap heap so I think this is a good moment for all of us.

Drive safely and enjoy!

[v10enomous]

Just in time for our drag race event... No cruise control required:)


Quick update:

The car is done. I'm flying out of town tomorrow evening and staying at some Red Roof Inn that "should" be walking distance from Prefix in Rochester Hills. I'll pick the car up Wednesday morning and be driving North over Lake Erie through Canada to get home. Should take about eight hours.

Oh yes. I can't wait. And if it rains, I'm driving 30mph.

[01sapphirebob]

Pshaw!!! How am I supposed to make it to the Ohio party without it??

Touche' It wouldn't be a party without it!

[cplabaunza]

I bet it was part # 68139711AB I've been waiting for that part since the end of June for my GTS...Deer ran into my GTS driver side...sucks


A quick update in case anyone cares...

Car is still at Prefix. Eric says the parts are all painted, but there's some bracket or something on backorder until September 22nd. My fingers are tied in knots being crossed so many times that I have it back before the cruise I'm supposed to help host on October 3rd. If I don't, I'll be leading it on a bicycle.

Now comes the ranting portion:

I realise that MY needs do not outweigh the rest of everyone else's at Prefix and Dodge, but I find it astounding that in this day and age, whatever part(s) that are on backorder cannot be manufactured for me. This is the flagship car that Dodge makes, and I sent it back to the OEM for repairs, and they can't get this piece. There's no inventory at the factory, no extra inventory at the supplier, and no room in the production schedule at the supplier to spit out another one of whatever it is. This amazes me.

Now, with how rapid things can change, I understand how nobody wants any inventory. It's unreasonable for me to expect any manufacturer to retain even five of every single part to every single car they make. We'd have to colonise Mars just for the warehouse space. And especially how often part numbers change and parts are updated, naturally it makes sense not to stock anything at all.

But if all the parts are painted, that means the missing piece for my car isn't a hood. I would totally understand why it takes a while to get an extra hood. But you're telling me that there are ANY vehicles in production that you could yoink my part from? They're all hand-built, so an IOU note taped to the chassis will be seen. No cars that are so early in the assembly process that it wouldn't impact delivery? No pre-production cars destined for the crusher that you can swipe my bracket (or whatever) from? No parts leftover from the Roadkill Viper that you can grab?

While I appreciate how difficult it is to build cars, and how for me to truly appreciate it, I would have to order each piece for a 500-piece puzzle individually, coordinate their delivery to a parking lot in Alaska, make sure they all arrive in the same hour, and then put this puzzle together blindfolded in the rain, but geez louise. I bet Alibaba or Amazon has my parts on the shelf.

/cracks another beer

[Bryan Savage]

CAR IS FIXED.

Flew to Detroit and drove it home through Canada yesterday. Somehow, missed all the rain.

Hung out with Jay for the morning. Got a tour of the shop, went to the painting/coating facility and got a tour there, then drove by the FCA design center and had lunch at a local restaurant before leaving, so by the time I got on the road, the rain had already passed. Had I taken a southern route, I would have been hosed.

Prefix really is a top-notch facility. I know they have plenty of praise already, but I'll pile more on. Maybe they're just used to Viper owners being really particular or jerks, but I've never been treated so nicely by any place I've done business with. Jay took hours out of his day to spend with me. That's just unheard of service, and I felt really bad about distracting him from his job.

It's treatment like this and the people in this community that just hammer home the reality that I'm a Viper Guy for life. Every manufacturer is going to have problems, but the level of support, respect, and treatment that I get from everyone involved is just fantastic. I look forward to the next few decades of hanging out with all of you. Maybe I'll have the car paid off by then!

I really didn't take any photos of the good stuff, because well, I feel like a jerk taking the camera out and asking people to stand back. Here's the couple I did bother to take with my phone. I took my nicer camera, but barely took anything.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-09-30%2009.03.32_zpszqamgxmj.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/lethalwillis/media/2015-09-30%2009.03.32_zpszqamgxmj.jpg.html)

This is one of the Prefix buildings, but not the right one. I had to walk across the street to a different shop to find the car.

Then, here's the car in the Light Tunnel for me to inspect. Jay was pulling a plastic cover off it when I rang the bell. Of all the parts, they forgot the Stryker decal, but they'll send me one and I'll put it on. Everything turned out perfect.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/lethalwillis/2015-09-30%2009.43.43_zps6eejfjph.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/lethalwillis/media/2015-09-30%2009.43.43_zps6eejfjph.jpg.html)

I Snapchatted video of a lot of my journey, which I will combine into one video and post, in case anyone cares.

[thetalonguy]

Welcome Back!! Glad everything worked out for you and you got an awesome journey out of it.

[Eachey51]

Awsome Brian! Excited for u!

[ViperSmith]

expensive way to get a guided tour :p

[johniew398]

Glad it worked out for you.

[smhog]

Bryan,

Great news, very happy for you. Man, with all that time, effort, and work put into your T/A, you better get that Stryker decal on perfectly. :)

[viper04]

Nice! in the end if you are happy that's what counts.

[v10enomous]

Looks like new again !

[swexlin]

I for one look forward to seeing pics of the return trip home.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

It looks nice. I am not sure I would put that Stryker sticker back on. Looks clean without it.

[SuperBird4404BBL]

Bryan,

Can't wait to see it in person.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Looks great again, glad you have it back.

[TIME]

Bryan, good to know you are back on the road. Nothing like an Orange TA!! Biased - not one bit.

[J TNT]

Glad to hear it worked out for you !
Prefix is First Class in their approach to Cars and People ! :)

[Vibert]

Byran: I'm glad the repair went well. Broke my heart to see your banged up.

On a related note, I'm a little confused. Forgive my ignorance. Is Prefix also a full repair facility as well as where Vipers are painted? If that's the case, I should consider myself fortunate to be in such close proximity to them. They're about 45 minutes from where I live. On a related note, does Arrow do engine repair as well for Vipers? They're also in Michigan and fairly close to me as well.

Thank you.

[XSnake]

Good to see a happy ending

[ViperDC]

Byran: I'm glad the repair went well. Broke my heart to see your banged up.

On a related note, I'm a little confused. Forgive my ignorance. Is Prefix also a full repair facility as well as where Vipers are painted? If that's the case, I should consider myself fortunate to be in such close proximity to them. They're about 45 minutes from where I live. On a related note, does Arrow do engine repair as well for Vipers? They're also in Michigan and fairly close to me as well.

Thank you.

Yes to both your questions

[lochnessmonster]

I'm glad to hear you're back on the road Bryan. Way to go giving them the credit they are due. I'm sure they appreciate your acknowledgment of their efforts and their level of service. We don't hear positive reviews like this nearly often enough. Cheers.

[Bryan Savage]

Like ViperDC says, yes to both.

I don't get the impression they are a Collision Center for just any old bloke who wants work done, but they are part of the Viper community, so they were happy to repair our cars. They run the coating facility where all OEM Viper panels are painted, but they do not perform the final assembly of the Viper. That happens at the Connor assembly plant. Racks of painted panels get shipped there. And from what I saw, there are going to be some really great colours coming out soon.

I've no personal experience with Arrow, but I'd be willing to bet they would be happy to help a Viper owner out. There aren't lots of these engines out there, so any chance they get to tear a used one down would probably be welcome to them.

As long as you're nice about it, I bet either of them would be more than willing to help you out.