**** ViperExchange Gen V Active Suspension Package Product Release ****

[FLATOUT]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8766/17978764695_ad4fab25db_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/toHSnD)ViperExchange Active Suspension (https://flic.kr/p/toHSnD) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

Welcome to the Future of Active Suspension Control

I want the Best of Both Wolrds - Van Halen, 5150 Album

Now, for the first time ever, you really can have the smoothest and most comfortable ride in a Viper street car AND the best performing, grippiest track car all in the same suspension package. No matter if you are looking for a more comfortable car to cruise the back roads, or if you want to get a couple seconds faster at your favorite track, the results of the new suspension package we have developed are so amazing, we offer a money back guarantee if you don’t like them.

Below are some of the technical details of the system, but if you’d like to know more about Ben Keating’s story of how this package was developed and why he is so excited about it, we recommend checking out the other document below.

ViperExchange in partnership with DSC Sport and Tractive Suspension has brought to the Viper Market, a revolutionary step forward in suspension technology, both for the Street and the track, in one comprehensive package. The collaboration between these companies has produced a fully active suspension, which is beyond anything currently in the market. The DSC Damper controller is an easy “Plug and Play” unit replacing the factory damper controller, meaning that all of the buttons and symbols on the dash of your GenV Viper remain exactly the same. And in conjunction with the new Tractive Suspension coilovers and their patented DDA technology, the Viper’s suspension/chassis relationship is totally changed from passive to active.

The Controller - DSC Sport is the leading developer and manufacturer of active control modules for electronic suspensions. By controlling the individual damping value of each shock in virtually real time, DSC Sport provides more grip to the tire, greater stability and ride control, and increased comfort for all driving styles and road conditions. By accessing the CAN data system, DSC Sport anticipates and acts upon various inputs rate of change including lateral, longitudinal, and vertical g-force; vehicle speed; steering angle; brake pressure; and damper velocity (in available models) to optimize the damping value of each individual shock within 6 milliseconds.* (That is 6 one thousandths of a second!)

DSC Sport offers three driver-selectable/definable modes: Street Compliance, Street Sport, and Track Performance. And while ViperExchange and DSC have worked together to program each of these specific modes to what they feel like is optimal, the system is totally customizable if you wanted to get that deep into the system. The Software Suite, to be released in summer 2015, will allow users to create, share, and customize their maps for their unique driving style, vehicle setup, or specific tracks.
The fact that the controller is virtually real time active, means that it will cause the dampers to react to whatever inputs you happen to throw at the car or whatever inputs the road surface happens to throw at the car. This means no more compromise!

The Dampers - The ViperExchange electronic coilover package includes Tractive Suspension coilovers, which are ultra-premium dampers. This is a long way from the factory Bilsteins or the Motons we used to install. Our partners at Tractive Suspension offer their patented DDA technology, which provides superior build quality, features the lowest stiction in the industry (< 50 lbs.), and responds to mid-stroke command within six milliseconds (compare that to the industry standard 100 milliseconds response and no mid-stroke command capability). This technology allows you to capture the true potential of DSC Sport and your vehicle’s chassis.

But equally important is the amount of dynamic range available within the Tractive dampers. In order to be able to make use of the Dynamic Suspension Control, you have to have a damper that is capable of doing everything that is being asked of it. This is one of the keys to our system. The dynamic range this damper offers is what allows it to make an incredible street car and a great track car without the same compromises required of other suspensions.

In addition, all 4 corners are fully ride height adjustable. This means you can lower your car to whatever level you are comfortable with, and it won’t hurt the performance of your suspension. This means you don’t have to bounce around just because you want a little lower look. This also gives you the ability to corner balance your car for a little bit more advantage at the track, which is something we would be happy to help you with.

This is an upgrade that inspires confidence behind the wheel and allows you to harness every horsepower your vehicle has to offer. Feel the g-force as you test your speed through every corner with increased tire grip. Experience full control as you navigate bumpy tracks and city streets with increased stability. And demand complete ride compliance as you push you and your vehicle to the most extreme limits.

The ViperExchange Electronic Suspension Package for the Generation V Viper takes street driving to a level of comfort previously never experienced in a Viper while pushing the Vipers track envelope and crushing personal best lap times.

Pricing for the package is: $6,940.00

For questions and sales of both performance parts and packages for your Viper call:

Andy Wheeler
ViperExchange Performance Shop Mgr.
936.525.0036
awheeler@viperexchange.com

[FLATOUT]

I have 20 sets that are currently about 15 days out to ViperExchange. I am putting together a list of customers for the first 20 sets. I have 6 already sold so pm me here, or email me at awheeler@viperexchange.com with questions or to get on the list :D

Andy

[FLATOUT]

My Damper Development story - Ben Keating

Back in 2013, when the Gen V Viper first came out, I wanted to move up into the top levels of Sportscar Racing, and there wasn’t really a good option for me to race a Viper. Therefore, I raced a Porsche GT3 Cup car in the GTC class of the American Le Mans Series. And in order to learn more about driving a Porsche and to learn many of the tracks I had never been to before, I did several races in the IMSA GT3 Cup with TPC Racing.

Michael Levitas is the owner, racer, and head tech guy for TPC racing. TPC Racing is one of the premier Porsche aftermarket companies in the Nation. If you want to make your Porsche go fast, then TPC Racing is the place you go. One of TPC’s best-selling items is their DSC damper controller for the Bilstein dual mode damper system. This unit is a simple plug and play replacement of the factory damper controller, which takes it from being basically an on/off switch to being a fully active suspension.

As Michael and I were talking at the track about how awesome the new Gen V was going to be, I was describing the new dual mode Bilstein dampers as being one of my favorite developments on the new car. I have always really loved the Viper, but I’ve never been happy with the ride quality that you have to put up with in order for the Viper to keep its track performance. I was extremely excited about the new Bilstein system, because I hoped this would finally give me the best of both worlds. During our discussion, Michael was saying that the electronic damper controller that he has had so much success with on the Porsche is for a Bilstein system, and that we might be able to plug in the same DSC system on the Viper. And that was how it all started. It was literally born at the track.

I went home and promptly put a new Viper into demo service to test the DSC controller. Amazingly, it literally plugged straight into the same plug as the factory unit, and it looked like exactly the same box. The buttons on the dash still functioned the exact same way. The indicator lights showing Street Mode or Race mode were all still exactly the same. I was excited!

I went straight from the install to a Viper gathering in the Texas Hill Country and the opportunity to drive at Circuit Of The Americas in Austin. My reaction to the system was just kind of “blah”. It was good and it was better, but not what I was hoping for. In fact, when I drove over the rumble strips at COTA (which you really need to do in a few areas), I was disappointed in the performance of the suspension. The car really did not like the rumble strips. So, I called Michael to discuss.

Michael was shocked (no pun intended). He had high hopes as well. He asked me to ship him the entire suspension, and I did. After testing everything and measuring what the stock Bilstein damper was capable of, he said that he totally understood why I responded that way. He said that the Bilstein damper on the Viper does not have the same dynamic range as the Bilstein damper on the Porsche. Therefore, the stock dampers on the Viper were not capable of handling everything the DSC was asking them to do. So because I was still so determined to find was I was looking for, Michael and I game planned on what the next move would be if we were going to be able to really take advantage of the DSC. He asked for some time to work through an idea he had.

Several weeks later Michael called back all excited. He had worked out an arrangement with Tractive Suspension to build a damper for the Viper. His exact words were, “Why go with an upgraded Bilstein of the Porsche, when you can go even better?” Everything about the Tractive dampers was better. They responded faster to the communication from the DSC. The quality of the construction was “top shelf”. They were fully ride height adjustable. And, they had a far superior dynamic range, which would allow us to customize the DSC controller to our needs and desires. We ordered 2 sets for testing.

When I received the first set of dampers, I was very impressed. They were a very good looking piece of equipment. Michael had already pre-set the ride heights on them to compare with where my car was before with the lowering caps I had on my Bilsteins. So, they were literally an easy, bolt on replacement.

The moment I drove my car with the Tractive Dampers I could tell a significant difference. It was much better than it had been before, but still not where I was hoping we could achieve. I called Michael to talk about it and he was not concerned in the least. He said we would need to write a program for the DSC to match the Tractive Damper, the Spring rates we decided to go with, and the specific characteristics of the Viper. So, we immediately went to our calendars and scheduled test days.

Michael flew to Texas, and we spent the first 2 days working on the street set up. We started by me driving around while Michael sat in the passenger seat looking at his laptop until he found something he didn’t like, and he would change the program. We did this for quite a while until he was happy. We then went out to drive a stock Viper to compare what it “used to” feel like, because we were having trouble remembering. While I was skeptical at first, the comparison to the stock car was extremely impressive. The difference was enormous.

But for me, I still didn’t like the way the car felt over railroad tracks or over the rough and wavy streets in my neighborhood. We spent quite a bit of time trying to dial it in. I was having a hard time describing it other than to say that the Corvette ZR1 felt more comfortable. This prompted us to get into the Corvette and do a half day of side by side tests. In my opinion, when it comes to the track, nothing even comes close to the Viper. But when it comes to the street, the Corvette is one of the best riding sportscars. One of my biggest measurements is the “wife test”. My wife, Kathleen, loves to drive a manual transmission car. She enjoys driving the Corvette, but doesn’t even want to ride passenger in the stock Viper because of how rough it is.

I was now amazed. Michael was able to spend 2 days on the laptop programing the DSC while I described what I didn’t like, and customized the ride on the Viper to ride better than the Corvette. I am picky when it comes to ride quality. In fact, I have piles of dampers back in my shop where I had tried everything to get a better ride in my 2002 GTS ACR, but to no avail. A smooth, but performance oriented feel in a Viper seemed like the Holy Grail. I knew we had just found something special and Kathleen was going to be excited too.

The next day Michael and I took the Viper to the track at Motorsports Ranch South of Houston to see what the track performance was like. MSR Houston has unfortunately fallen victim to the typical soil around the Gulf Coast, and is pretty bumpy for a race track, but a good place to test suspension. It didn’t take long for me to start exploring the limits of the car.

The first issue I noticed was under extreme heavy braking. The front-end seemed to lose all dampening and it would cause the ABS to kick in, which would eliminate any ability for me to modulate the brakes going into a corner. What we quickly realized was that we had set up the dampers in a similar fashion to the stock Bilsteins, and that under extreme braking the front end was riding on the bump rubbers and causing exactly what I was feeling – effectively no suspension. It was so incredible to be able to remove the bump rubbers to give a little additional room for movement and also reprogram into the DSC the ability to support the front end under that condition without bottoming out. HUGE difference! There was much less ABS. I could brake deeper into the corner and modulate the brakes throughout. The suspension even got rid on the rear-end wiggle I was feeling under heavy braking. The stability and grip level under braking compared to the stock suspension was astounding.

The next thing that really impressed me was the overall grip level. When driving the stock suspension around the track, you almost have to turn off the Electronic Stability Control and traction control, because it comes in all the time and really slows you down. I realized how big the improvement was when I hopped in the car to do a session and realized afterwards that I had forgotten to switch the ESC out of its fully active mode. The grip level was so much higher with the Tractive dampers combined with the active controller that the ESC didn’t come in and interrupt my driving. It is hard to explain how significant this is. The suspension system has such a large dynamic range that it is able to control the car without overloading the tire’s grip level.

I realized I had even gotten used to the ESC coming in here and there while driving on the street as the tires slid around just a small amount. It had become just one of the characteristics of the car. But as a result of the track experience, I realized this had gone away on the street as well. The Dynamic Controller was able to react to my inputs and change the dampers fast enough to maintain the grip. And you have to remember I was driving on the exact same Pirelli street tires the car was delivered with and they had 1,100 miles of hard driving on them over the course of 4 months.

Another neat thing was to go around the Carousel turn at MSR. This is not a smooth track and there is no camber in the road. But with the software from the DSC, we were able to record a consistent 1.3G’s all the way around the Carousel. This is HUGE! The same old street tires, no Wing or splitter, much less than ideal track conditions, and I was able to drive through that turn faster than I can remember driving it in my ACRX. I mean just imagine how incredible it would be on the track if I had a stickier tire or if I had a little more Aero downforce. This difference this overall system made on the handling was incredible.

Even coming out of the slow turns where you want to get the best launch that you can, I was able to leave the full traction control system on without interruption and was able to really get around the track well. Furthermore, the stability difference through the S-turns, where the DSC is able to react specifically to what is going on at that exact moment, gives you the perfect package for each specific situation without compromise. I was not driving for a specific lap time, but I would be shocked if this system didn’t cut at least 2 full seconds off my time at MSR. In fact, with a little Aero and a decent set of track tires, I would put my stock Gen V Viper up against any other race car.

In summary, the end result was even better than I could have dreamed of. I believe if there is only one thing someone can afford to add to their Gen V Viper, this is it. It makes the car a much better daily driver, a much better cruiser, a much better track car, and even a much better garage queen because the slightly lowered look is so sexy. It makes the Viper truly the ultimate sportscar I always wanted.

When Michael and I started discussing prices of all this stuff, my goal was to be able to keep it all below $10,000. But with the highest quality electronic dampers, and the technology of an active damper controller, and the springs, I wasn’t sure we could get there. As it turned out, we were able to sell all of this Ultra-Premium hardware and technology at a price that is cheaper than a set of 3-way Motons!

I know this sounds crazy, but I believe this suspension could revolutionize the Viper. I am THAT excited about it. - Ben Keating

[FLATOUT]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8851/17979465941_79799cc506_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/toMsQ6)ViperExchange Active Suspension (https://flic.kr/p/toMsQ6) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8773/17792500319_f4da700f4d_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/t7gdsT)ViperExchange Active Suspension (https://flic.kr/p/t7gdsT) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5452/17790881838_7929846b98_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/t77Vm3)ViperExchange Active Suspension (https://flic.kr/p/t77Vm3) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[Orange TA]

Where are these made?

[ACRucrazy]

This is bad ass :United_States:

[ViperSmith]

What is the benefit for this for the base SRT?

[FLATOUT]

Where are these made?

Tractive Suspension in the Netherlands MFG's the dampers and the DSC is made in the US.

[VENOM V]

This is really cool, I remember discussing this with Ben at Laguna Seca at the Tudor race about a year ago. Exciting to see it come to fruition. I look forward to reviews by the first buyers, especially the track rats. I do feel that the damper technology is one that the Viper could use improvement on, hopefully this is a good solution.

[Malu59RT]

Man, Viper Exchange is really doing it right. Loving all the new products you guys are putting out!

[FLATOUT]

What is the benefit for this for the base SRT?

Let me look into the answer. I know it could be setup to run in either track or street but I'll check to see if we could retrofit the electronic dash buttons to control the system.

Andy

[FLATOUT]

This is really cool, I remember discussing this with Ben at Laguna Seca at the Tudor race about a year ago. Exciting to see it come to fruition. I look forward to reviews by the first buyers, especially the track rats. I do feel that the damper technology is one that the Viper could use improvement on, hopefully this is a good solution.

I agree it's one of the main reasons I just purchased a new Viper :) I'll start a new thread about that in a little while, but this setup is going to change everything with the car. Based on Ben's performance at MSR Houston on his factory Pirelli's I knew I would have to pick up a set of these.

Andy


Man, Viper Exchange is really doing it right. Loving all the new products you guys are putting out!

Ben's time with Riley and the Factory Engineers has really helped to move the needle on a lot of these projects in a really positive and factory style effort.

[Viktimize]

This is awesome!! I have no reason to need these, but I want them anyway.

[Tiago]

awesome, now you can slam the Gen 5s without problems.

[FLATOUT]

awesome, now you can slam the Gen 5s without problems.

Yep and have it ride smoother than any Vette you've ever been in on the street setting. This will be a great mod for guys that put a bunch of miles on their cars on the street, and it will be awesome for guys that want a step forward in track performance as well.

I will out a set on my new car as soon as I can :)

[Bruce H.]

Andy,

Sounds very exciting, and does address an aspect of the car that is a little behind the times, and limits performance. I'm not at all familiar with the brand, and have a few questions that others might have as well.

Was there more than one combination of spring rates used in Ben's testing, are more than one available with the kit, and what are the recommended rates? I see they are a mono tube design as opposed to the remote reservoir system which is more common to the demands of track use, and stock on the V. That seems on the surface to be a compromise but perhaps it isn't. Are the dampers rebuildable, is there a recommended interval, and what is the procedure to do that. What is the warranty, and do you have any technical specs for the dampers?

Ben's comment indicate that he had to reduce the front bump rubbers to prevent bottoming out under hard braking. Since I already slightly scuff my front TA splitters under hard braking and cornering in particularly challenging corners, I would want stiffer front spring rates to hold the front up better rather than cut back the rubbers to let it drop further. Will this suspension system increase the damper's travel, with the fix for me being to raise the car higher to compensate for hard braking?

Thanks in advance.

Bruce

[Junkie]

Well fuck me, this is awesome

[darbgnik]

Let me look into the answer. I know it could be setup to run in either track or street but I'll check to see if we could retrofit the electronic dash buttons to control the system.

Andy

Seems to me all the wiring would be there already, at least I assume that's what the extra harness in my battery tray area is.......


Well fuck me, this is awesome

Awesome post. lol

[Rapidrezults]

Andy,

Sounds very exciting, and does address an aspect of the car that is a little behind the times, and limits performance. I'm not at all familiar with the brand, and have a few questions that others might have as well.

Was there more than one combination of spring rates used in Ben's testing, are more than one available with the kit, and what are the recommended rates? I see they are a mono tube design as opposed to the remote reservoir system which is more common to the demands of track use, and stock on the V. That seems on the surface to be a compromise but perhaps it isn't. Are the dampers rebuildable, is there a recommended interval, and what is the procedure to do that. What is the warranty, and do you have any technical specs for the dampers?

Ben's comment indicate that he had to reduce the front bump rubbers to prevent bottoming out under hard braking. Since I already slightly scuff my front TA splitters under hard braking and cornering in particularly challenging corners, I would want stiffer front spring rates to hold the front up better rather than cut back the rubbers to let it drop further. Will this suspension system increase the damper's travel, with the fix for me being to raise the car higher to compensate for hard braking?

Thanks in advance.

Bruce

These questions are on point.

[FLATOUT]

These questions are on point.

Absolutely, I'll answer everything I can now and follow up with anything else as soon as I can.

[ViperSmith]

Absolutely, I'll answer everything I can now and follow up with anything else as soon as I can.
Stop slacking and get us our answers!

;)

[FLATOUT]

Stop slacking and get us our answers!

;)

I'm eating dinner with my little girls, and getting them to bed. I'll be happy to jump on later and answer a few questions.

[ViperSmith]

Just ribbing you. Enjoy the long weekend!

[FLATOUT]

Andy,

Sounds very exciting, and does address an aspect of the car that is a little behind the times, and limits performance. I'm not at all familiar with the brand, and have a few questions that others might have as well. I don't think you or any of us truly realized just how behind the time it (factory TA and non TA dampers) was until they started working on the project. Going from an innactive setup to a fully active chassis monitoring suspension making adjustments at over 10,000 times per second takes the Viper to a place it has never been before.

Was there more than one combination of spring rates used in Ben's testing Yes I know they (Ben and Michael) have been developing and tweaking this kit both on the street and track for quite a while. are more than one available with the kit I would think if you had something specifically in mind that one could request a different spring rate, but tuning the dampers via the DSC would be the better route to achieve the goal that you might have, and what are the recommended rates I will have to check with Ben and Michael? I see they are a mono tube design as opposed to the remote reservoir system which is more common to the demands of track use, and stock on the V. That seems on the surface to be a compromise but perhaps it isn't It absolutely is not a compromise and in fact tractive is an upgraded top of the line replacement for Porsche GT3 and GT3RS platforms . Are the dampers rebuildable, is there a recommended interval, and what is the procedure to do that I'll get back to you on this.. What is the warranty, and do you have any technical specs for the dampers I know that we have stock TA and Tractive dyno's back to back that we are working on providing but you can always email me with any specific question you might have and I can look into it for you.?

Ben's comment indicate that he had to reduce the front bump rubbers to prevent bottoming out under hard braking. Since I already slightly scuff my front TA splitters under hard braking and cornering in particularly challenging corners, I would want stiffer front spring rates to hold the front up better rather than cut back the rubbers to let it drop further. Will this suspension system increase the damper's travel, with the fix for me being to raise the car higher to compensate for hard braking? He didn't HAVE to remove them or reduce them, he chose to due to the additional performance gain based on the extra travel. The DSC could be setup to work within the stock travel to fit your needs, as it is a completely tunable system via the DSC and the DSC's tuning software that will be released in a few months.

Thanks in advance.

Bruce

See my answers in bold and I will do my best to answer your questions as they come up.

Andy
awheeler@viperexchange.com

[FLATOUT]

Just ribbing you. Enjoy the long weekend!

No worries, I just hopped on the lap top lol. I meant to get this posted earlier today so I could answer a few more questions while I was in front of the computer. I hope people realize just how much this system is going to change what the Viper is capable of doing. Ben told me over the phone the other day that the car has so much mid corner and exit grip that he no longer has to use the factory traction control settings at MSR Houston. Basically as the power is being applied the DSC is making ajustments at over 10,000 times per second to keep the tires planted and clawing forward. This setup could even help drag racers and roll racers to put more power to the ground in straight line situations.

Andy

[LmeaViper]

How about wheel hop under hard gas in 1st? I noticed a bit in street mode on my PZero's. Any comments?
Very nice.

[FLATOUT]

How about wheel hop under hard gas in 1st? I noticed a bit in street mode on my PZero's. Any comments?
Very nice.

No longer occurs. The active suspension adapts to what it is experiencing and makes the adjustment.

[Bruce H.]

See my answers in bold and I will do my best to answer your questions as they come up.

Andy
awheeler@viperexchange.com

Thanks Andy. Oh I realized that the Viper's suspension isn't state of the art, along with its engine, transmission and diff...but that's half of its appeal! I used to track an '10 XKR with active suspension, direct injection, rev matching auto and electronic diff that make the Viper look like it's from the Stone Age. But you just gotta love such an engaging and analogue car in todays market that competes favorably with the high tech stuff.

Maybe you could look into the damper travel question a little because I think you'll find that the damper and it's tuning doesn't affect damper travel, just the rate of travel. It's the spring rate that determines the extent of the travel under braking and cornering. The damper tuning affects ride comfort and the ability to keep the tires in contact with the road surface.

Hopefully you'll be able to address tech specs and warranty as well when you get a chance. Thanks again.

[1.8t]

Great product and glad to see ViperExchange stepping up to the plate with quality options!

[FLATOUT]

Correct, I'll address it with Ben and Michael and get back to you.


Thanks Andy. Oh I realized that the Viper's suspension isn't state of the art, along with its engine, transmission and diff...but that's half of its appeal! I used to track an '10 XKR with active suspension, direct injection, rev matching auto and electronic diff that make the Viper look like it's from the Stone Age. But you just gotta love such an engaging and analogue car in todays market that competes favorably with the high tech stuff.

Maybe you could look into the damper travel question a little because I think you'll find that the damper and it's tuning doesn't affect damper travel, just the rate of travel. It's the spring rate that determines the extent of the travel under braking and cornering. The damper tuning affects ride comfort and the ability to keep the tires in contact with the road surface.

Hopefully you'll be able to address tech specs and warranty as well when you get a chance. Thanks again.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Does this have anything to do with the Bose suspension system?

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/automotive/bose_suspension/index.jsp

[FLATOUT]

Does this have anything to do with the Bose suspension system?

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/automotive/bose_suspension/index.jsp

No it does not. It looks like they both use a proprietary software to control or tune the system but that might be where the similarities end.

[I Bin Therbefor]

No it does not. It looks like they both use a proprietary software to control or tune the system but that might be where the similarities end.

Thanks

[NoMorZR1]

Besides the "active" suspension component, what are some of the benefits of this setup versus the MCS suspension kit ?

[LmeaViper]

No longer occurs. The active suspension adapts to what it is experiencing and makes the adjustment.

That is excellent.

[FLATOUT]

Besides the "active" suspension component, what are some of the benefits of this setup versus the MCS suspension kit ?

Honestly the difference is similar to going from a dumb phone to a smart phone. The new active suspension which accesses the factory electronics via the can connections are making adjustments at over 10,000 times per second. It creates an active chassis environment based on what your vehicles various system sensors are feeding to the DSC controller.

With an MCS setup up you are making manual adjustments by literally turning knobs with your hands in between sessions based on what your physical feeling of the cars performance was.

Active vs. Passive

Then the MCS setup only has one setting that you are using at any one time. So no improvement in street ride, and your factory electronics are no longer used. So the new tractive/DSC based system improves both on track performance and street performance over the MCS set ups.

[Victxv10]

Honestly the difference is similar to going from a dumb phone to a smart phone.

Probably the best analogy to explain the setup!

[Trainerdave]

What is the benefit for this for the base SRT?

X2 if this can work on a base it will make it allot easier to find the exact car I want, unlike in the past there are so many options for Viper, the base interior is all I need but I must have electronic suspension, sidewinders (I like black the best but can paint the others), and the six vent hood is a must.
I see a base 15 in black and competition blue with my name on it at viper exchange, if this setup could be added.
I don't see why it couldn't , I'm sure the car is wired for it, and how hard could it be to pop out 2 fake plastic buttons.

[FLATOUT]

X2 if this can work on a base it will make it allot easier to find the exact car I want, unlike in the past there are so many options for Viper, the base interior is all I need but I must have electronic suspension, sidewinders (I like black the best but can paint the others), and the six vent hood is a must.
I see a base 15 in black and competition blue with my name on it at viper exchange, if this setup could be added.
I don't see why it couldn't , I'm sure the car is wired for it, and how hard could it be to pop out 2 fake plastic buttons.

I bought the competition blue stripe delete GT we had but I think the blue with black stripe is still there. And I agree there is only one harness for all vipers so the connectors are in there. Might just have to have a dealership scan tool initialize it or something.

[Simms]

Awesome product! Great to see ViperExchange investing into the viper community (especially the Gen V).

[Trainerdave]

Can you look into this for me, it would make buying so much easier for me, I'd rather buy a base with the six vent, and sidewinders and have that suspension added.

There are allot of all black cars out there that I would jump on, I would jump on your old TA, but i want a little less miles, right now I'm just a little short from having cash for sw's TA, but as much as I like ta Orange I love the black, I'm coming from a 99 ACR , and would love to have a suspension that rides better than my previous corvettes for the street, and a kick ass setup for the track.

[FLATOUT]

Of course I'll check on it for everyone. It would be the parfect mod on a TA or the car I just picked up.




Can you look into this for me, it would make buying so much easier for me, I'd rather buy a base with the six vent, and sidewinders and have that suspension added.

There are allot of all black cars out there that I would jump on, I would jump on your old TA, but i want a little less miles, right now I'm just a little short from having cash for sw's TA, but as much as I like ta Orange I love the black, I'm coming from a 99 ACR , and would love to have a suspension that rides better than my previous corvettes for the street, and a kick ass setup for the track.

[Viper Specialty]

Question:

Is this system integrating with the OE system, or is it operating in a stand-alone capacity? If it is integrating, is it simply utilizing the vehicle wiring, or is it active on the bus?

The reason I bring this up, is I am trying to gauge the likelihood of a retrofit onto, for example, a Gen-2/3/4 application.

If the latter is potentially already in the pipeline, that works too... I see a potential backwards compatible application here.

[Steve-Indy]

Another question: Would 't this very interesting system technically be called an adaptive or semi-active suspension? Or, did I fail to understand the presentation...as a true "active suspension" also includes the ability to raise and lower the chassis at each wheel.

Whatever the definition, congrats on this intriguing product !!!

[MBG2.0]

Looks like a awesome product..
Would love to get some lap time or I should say drop in lap time data when it comes out.,
Any weight savings?

[VENOMV10]

Question....What is the approx. install time if Viper Exchange does this? and does it require 5-6 hours on the alignment machine? If this is as good as you say it is...Im sold on buying a Viper....So 1 more question....will this work on a base Viper or does the Viper need at least a J22 package from the factor?

[Madmav]

I sure hope it works with a base viper cause that is sweet

[Cigar]

Question:

Is this system integrating with the OE system, or is it operating in a stand-alone capacity? If it is integrating, is it simply utilizing the vehicle wiring, or is it active on the bus?

The reason I bring this up, is I am trying to gauge the likelihood of a retrofit onto, for example, a Gen-2/3/4 application.

If the latter is potentially already in the pipeline, that works too... I see a potential backwards compatible application here.

I'd be interested in that as well, my suspension guy has been looking into it for too long without anything, I'm down 2" and tired of hitting, scraping, and the rough ride, but I hate to put it back up.

[VENOMV10]

I sure hope it works with a base viper cause that is sweet

If it does Viper sales will go through the roof....!! I know if I got a base w/stripes, and had this suspension on it I would buy an Areo kit, and be done. I do not need the super nice interior at all. I think the base is fine. You can get a Base for $89K and then add $8500 for this kit installed, the 4800 for the front and read areo kit you are $102,300 and the cars would be perfect. Now I have to fine the color I want.

[FLATOUT]

Active on the bus and we are looking into the retrofit. My first thought on the other gens is that it might have to run in just one setting but I'll get some more info for you this week.


Question:

Is this system integrating with the OE system, or is it operating in a stand-alone capacity? If it is integrating, is it simply utilizing the vehicle wiring, or is it active on the bus?

The reason I bring this up, is I am trying to gauge the likelihood of a retrofit onto, for example, a Gen-2/3/4 application.

If the latter is potentially already in the pipeline, that works too... I see a potential backwards compatible application here.

[FLATOUT]

It creates an active chassis environment. Basically by tapping in through the bus system via the DSC the dampers are reacting and adjusting at over 10,000 times per second based on the data it see's.

As for lap times at MSR Houston Nineball and I have run some very quick street tire laps at 1:45 & 1:46 respectively. There is a video of a fully prepped ACRX being driven by one of our very best in the area running a 1:40 on Hoosiers. Ben Keating in his TA on this suspension on the stock TA street tires turned a ridiculous 1:36! When I heard that I started putting money aside lol.


Another question: Would 't this very interesting system technically be called an adaptive or semi-active suspension? Or, did I fail to understand the presentation...as a true "active suspension" also includes the ability to raise and lower the chassis at each wheel.

Whatever the definition, congrats on this intriguing product !!!

[FLATOUT]

I sure hope it works with a base viper cause that is sweet

I will look into this guys.

[Simms]

As for lap times at MSR Houston Nineball and I have run some very quick street tire laps at 1:45 & 1:46 respectively. There is a video of a fully prepped ACRX being driven by one of our very best in the area running a 1:40 on Hoosiers. Ben Keating in his TA on this suspension on the stock TA street tires turned a ridiculous 1:36! When I heard that I started putting money aside lol.

That is nuts!!!

[Voice of Reason]

I like where this is all going. It sounds like it's leaps and bounds better than the two mode system we have today. Any speculation (from anyone, not just Andy) why Dodge isn't picking this up for every car as a factory option? Viper really needs something like this from the factory to compete with GM's magnetic suspension setup.

[kdaviper]

I like where this is all going. It sounds like it's leaps and bounds better than the two mode system we have today. Any speculation (from anyone, not just Andy) why Dodge isn't picking this up for every car as a factory option? Viper really needs something like this from the factory to compete with GM's magnetic suspension setup.

i dont know why but maybe they should consider an upgrade for MY 2017

[FLATOUT]

i dont know why but maybe they should consider an upgrade for MY 2017

The good thing is they are available now. You can buy a new Viper from ViperExchange and Bernie and Courtney can add any of these packages on to your car prior to you taking delivery.

Andy

[Tomball-Dodge]

I can state equivocally that this system will revolutionize the drivability of the Gen V Viper. I drove the first car we built which is Ben's Mule and the car and ride quality far surpasses any of the other suspensions we have installed to date and for the Viper. I was blown away and will install the system one of our new for sale Vipers for some of you to come by and test drive. The only way to be able to explain would be when your behind the wheel and can experience the drive yourself.

[bluesrt]

A must have for the new acr

[FLATOUT]

A must have for the new acr

Exactly.

[Rapidrezults]

Assuming the car would be setup for just track, and street ride quality is not a concern, how would the "track" setting of this suspension compare to a non DSC/active setup similar to what's on the ACR? Also, from my understanding the GT3-R and GTS-R cars were/are non DSC equipped...is there a reason for this? As in, for extreme race applications the active suspension cannot compete? If it is what Ben says it is, which I'm sure it is.... I'm curious to know why this hasn't been explored further, especially in the development of the ACR. Is it simply cost? Or is there a reason, in that a manually adjustable suspension may hold an advantage for a pure track car?

[SHADOWSNAKE]

Assuming the car would be setup for just track, and street ride quality is not a concern, how would the "track" setting of this suspension compare to a non DSC/active setup similar to what's on the ACR? Also, from my understanding the GT3-R and GTS-R cars were/are non DSC equipped...is there a reason for this? As in, for extreme race applications the active suspension cannot compete? If it is what Ben says it is, which I'm sure it is.... I'm curious to know why this hasn't been explored further, especially in the development of the ACR. Is it simply cost?

I was thinking the same thing, and wondering how this system compares with similar such as MSRC...

The ride quality in my Z06/Z07 on the street isn't spectacular, but on track the suspension dynamics really let you push the car harder with confidence. This is very exciting news from team ViperExchange!

[FLATOUT]

It very well could be a class restriction, or something of that nature. Ben started the work on this with his IMSA partners TPC racing that run them on their Porsche IMSA cars. I will follow up with him but the on track difference between these and a MCS or KW setup is substantial. A manually adjusted setup that doesn't make adjustments based on what it is reading via the bus system is at a considerable disadvantage to a set up like this.

As for why the factory isn't using it, I'd say cost is the limiting factor or that they may feel what they have on the car is good enough. Who knows maybe for the same reason there's no vert, or 700hp, or Targa factory option. It simply might be a business case.

I can tell you that several of the biggest names in the Viper World are at the front of the list for this setup on their personal Gen V's.




Assuming the car would be setup for just track, and street ride quality is not a concern, how would the "track" setting of this suspension compare to a non DSC/active setup similar to what's on the ACR? Also, from my understanding the GT3-R and GTS-R cars were/are non DSC equipped...is there a reason for this? As in, for extreme race applications the active suspension cannot compete? If it is what Ben says it is, which I'm sure it is.... I'm curious to know why this hasn't been explored further, especially in the development of the ACR. Is it simply cost? Or is there a reason, in that a manually adjustable suspension may hold an advantage for a pure track car?

[darbgnik]

Seeing as you are compiling a list of questions, I'll add one more based on the information below:

Our partners at Tractive Suspension offer their patented DDA technology, which provides superior build quality, features the lowest stiction in the industry (< 50 lbs.)

The Ohlins suspension on one of my motorcycles is also designed with low stiction as a design goal, but it is partly accomplished by having inner rod seals with only one sealing lip, instead of the industry two lip seal design. The downside of this design is a higher weep rate, and a higher occurrence of leaks. Maybe you could ask what the trade off between low stiction and longevity are.

BTW, also curious to see if they are backwards compatible to the SRT platform....

[Rapidrezults]

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I am thoroughly interested in this setup. With the pre set tune on the kit...what type of track would you say it is set up for out of the box in "track" mode? It sounds like they did a lot of testing at a bumpy/rough track? Does that mean there may be performance left on the table for a relatively smooth track? For someone that doesn't want to play with settings, is there a way we can specify the type of track we most frequent and have that tuned to ship with the set? What comes to mind is how Chevrolet modified their suspension program for the Willow springs (rough track mode) test when they initially got a bad review. What an exciting time to be a Viper owner.

[VENOMV10]

If this system plug and plays basically with the GT, GTS, and T/A suspension, then would it be as simple as adding the switch from the "parts bin of Dodge" to a base model, (Since you are replacing the existing electronic hardware, and the suspension part/s) and adding your parts to a "base model? I know that you mention you would get back to us on it....but does this seem plausible? I'm not a mechanic, nor a software, or race guy. So if this question seem dumb, again my apologies in advance.

[FLATOUT]

If this system plug and plays basically with the GT, GTS, and T/A suspension, then would it be as simple as adding the switch from the "parts bin of Dodge" to a base model, (Since you are replacing the existing electronic hardware, and the suspension part/s) and adding your parts to a "base model? I know that you mention you would get back to us on it....but does this seem plausible? I'm not a mechanic, nor a software, or race guy. So if this question seem dumb, again my apologies in advance.

Yes to me it seems very plausible. Dodge only makes and sells one body harness for the Viper so the connectors should already be there. I would think you buy the switch shook them up and away you go. I just added the trailer brake controller from Mopar on my 2015 Ram and the connectors were there I just have to initialize it via the factory scan tool to complete the install so it might be similar to that. We will have to see if the electronics where they connect to the damper is there as well.

[XSnake]

I just added the trailer brake controller from Mopar on my 2015 Ram and the connectors were there I just have to initialize it via the factory scan tool to complete the install so it might be similar to that. We will have to see if the electronics where they connect to the damper is there as well.

I did the same thing to mine. Took all of 5 min. Also, added the factory backup cam. I had to add the harness but turning the option on in the vehicle was still simple. Hope its that easy for all the G5 owners

[FLATOUT]

I did the same thing to mine. Took all of 5 min. Also, added the factory backup cam. I had to add the harness but turning the option on in the vehicle was still simple. Hope its that easy for all the G5 owners

Agree hoping that's all it is.

[Rapidrezults]

For anyone interested, I've dug up some more info about the setup that is being used on the Porsche cars by TPC/DSC and as mentioned, it is very similar, if not identical in a lot of ways. Lots of great questions and info in these threads that can apply to this very discussion. The more I learn and read, the more I am beginning to really believe this is truly a revolution in suspension technology for our Vipers and other vehicles. I think I am sold!

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/355996-immediate-release-introducing-dsc-sport-tractive-dda-suspension-system.html

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/856864-official-dsc-sport-discussion-forum.html

And also a glowing review by Randy Pobst in a TPC Racing Porsche with DSC.

https://vimeo.com/35957249

[FLATOUT]

Thanks for posting those links, always great to hear customer testimonials like that. One conversation I had with Mike Levitas was about how much larger the overall improvement is on the Viper. Apparanetly the stock Viper Billstiens were the least desirable factory setup they had started from. Basically on a Porsche Cup, GT3, or GT2 they were happy to see consistent 1 second to 2 second improvements in lap times. On the Vipers they were gaining 3-4 seconds. Those threads are great reads and I can't wait to get a set on my Gen V.


For anyone interested, I've dug up some more info about the setup that is being used on the Porsche cars by TPC/DSC and as mentioned, it is very similar, if not identical in a lot of ways. Lots of great questions and info in these threads that can apply to this very discussion. The more I learn and read, the more I am beginning to really believe this is truly a revolution in suspension technology for our Vipers and other vehicles. I think I am sold!

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/355996-immediate-release-introducing-dsc-sport-tractive-dda-suspension-system.html

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/856864-official-dsc-sport-discussion-forum.html

And also a glowing review by Randy Pobst in a TPC Racing Porsche with DSC.

https://vimeo.com/35957249

[Disturbed]

It creates an active chassis environment. Basically by tapping in through the bus system via the DSC the dampers are reacting and adjusting at over 10,000 times per second based on the data it see's.

As for lap times at MSR Houston Nineball and I have run some very quick street tire laps at 1:45 & 1:46 respectively. There is a video of a fully prepped ACRX being driven by one of our very best in the area running a 1:40 on Hoosiers. Ben Keating in his TA on this suspension on the stock TA street tires turned a ridiculous 1:36! When I heard that I started putting money aside lol.

1:36 on street tires....no shit. That's fucking moving! These should sell like hot cakes and be the the #1 mod.

Any chance you can do a unofficial "water test". Just put a half full glass of water and see how it reacts to a road, then take the same glass and put it in a car with these shocks. That will give people a good idea of how much smoother it is on the street. The track numbers can't be disputed but lots of times street manners suffer. This is a good test to show its the same or better than stock.

[FLATOUT]

Sounds like fun haha. Once we start getting sets installed I might just have to do that. Of the first 20 sets 13 are already spoken for so if any of you are on the fence or wanting to place an order, email me awheeler@viperexchange.com

Andy

Also I have a conference call this morning with the guys at TPC to get some of your questions answered.

[VENOMV10]

Sounds like fun haha. Once we start getting sets installed I might just have to do that. Of the first 20 sets 13 are already spoken for so if any of you are on the fence or wanting to place an order, email me awheeler@viperexchange.com

Andy

Also I have a conference call this morning with the guys at TPC to get some of your questions answered.

What are the cost for the "package" and do you have an idea the cost for install? or is that included in the numbers you gave on the units?

[FLATOUT]

What are the cost for the "package" and do you have an idea the cost for install? or is that included in the numbers you gave on the units?

Pricing for the package is: $6,940.00

That includes the dampers and DSC controller, basically everything you need to install plug it in, and go. We have not finalized our install time on these but I expect them to be similar to our cap install time or just a little more. As with the cap install we also recommend an alignment be done at the same time.

I just got off the phone and should have quite a bit more info as to the tunability of this setup, as well as a shock dyno of the stocker vs. the tractive. Like if you want the system to remain soft under 25mph for speed bumps or driveways, but firm up to the race setting to anything over that mph, you can do that. This will be an incredible step forward for the Viper in so many ways.

[VENOMV10]

I take it...it will work on the 2016 Viper GT as well? I have not heard of any changes to the 2016. Someone mention the ACR (which is a 2016) as a good candid, yes?

[darbgnik]

I think if you can get them to work on the SRT models, you will have a large market for this setup.

Imagine a better handling car, with these installed, for less than a GT.

[FLATOUT]

I think if you can get them to work on the SRT models, you will have a large market for this setup.

Imagine a better handling car, with these installed, for less than a GT.

Agree I am looking into the parts cost this afternoon.

[Simms]

The more I read, the more I have to have this.

Do they recommend running TA sway bars with these, or are GTS sway bars ok?

[ACR Steve]

How would this work with the New ACR ? Spring rates would need to be much higher , shock valving would be different as well

[FLATOUT]

The more I read, the more I have to have this.

Do they recommend running TA sway bars with these, or are GTS sway bars ok?

The car will perform much better than it is in it's current state regardless. Solid TA sway bars are a nice addition but it won't have nearly the impact running this suspension setup will.

[FLATOUT]

How would this work with the New ACR ? Spring rates would need to be much higher , shock valving would be different as well

You can order whatever spring rate you would like. For all of the standard down force cars TA 1.0's and lower the setup we are putting on it will be exceptional. We could add stiffer spring rates for the TA 2.0 and ACR's if needed but has not been discussed yet.

[FLATOUT]

BTW for the SRT guys I just took this picture, that's your DSC harness wrapped up and ready to go. I also just spoke with Ben about retrofitting the in dash controls to switch between modes and his comment was that even the "sport, or race mode" rides so much better than the car has ever felt, that even in one mode it's such a massive improvement that it's worth doing.

I also just priced the center consol controls and that entire center stack is sold as one whole unit so if you did in fact want to add those two buttons you are looking at around $800. The software that is going to be released for the suspension will be controllable via your smart phone so you might be making the switch from mode to mode with your apple or android device.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjt93le4d.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjt93le4d.jpg.html)

[Rapidrezults]

BTW for the SRT guys I just took this picture, that's your DSC harness wrapped up and ready to go. I also just spoke with Ben about retrofitting the in dash controls to switch between modes and his comment was that even the "sport, or race mode" rides so much better than the car has ever felt, that even in one mode it's such a massive improvement that it's worth doing.

I also just priced the center consol controls and that entire center stack is sold as one whole unit so if you did in fact want to add those two buttons you are looking at around $800. The software that is going to be released for the suspension will be controllable via your smart phone so you might be making the switch from mode to mode with your apple or android device.


This is awesome news, so it looks like we will be able to put this package on the ACR! This will take the Viper to a level never before seen by mankind! Lol

[cayenne]

BTW for the SRT guys I just took this picture, that's your DSC harness wrapped up and ready to go. I also just spoke with Ben about retrofitting the in dash controls to switch between modes and his comment was that even the "sport, or race mode" rides so much better than the car has ever felt, that even in one mode it's such a massive improvement that it's worth doing.

I also just priced the center consol controls and that entire center stack is sold as one whole unit so if you did in fact want to add those two buttons you are looking at around $800. The software that is going to be released for the suspension will be controllable via your smart phone so you might be making the switch from mode to mode with your apple or android device.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjt93le4d.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjt93le4d.jpg.html)

I'm another SRT guy super interested in this. For the $800 hit that Dodge is going to get from us it seems like it would be fairly easy to retrofit other switches or just use the app.. Right?

[swexlin]

Andy, could be interested as well, on my Track Pack car. So what you're saying is that while we COULD shell out the $800 for two buttons, there is now need as I can control it from my I Phone, correct? This is pretty cool.

[FLATOUT]

I'm another SRT guy super interested in this. For the $800 hit that Dodge is going to get from us it seems like it would be fairly easy to retrofit other switches or just use the app.. Right?


Andy, could be interested as well, on my Track Pack car. So what you're saying is that while we COULD shell out the $800 for two buttons, there is now need as I can control it from my I Phone, correct? This is pretty cool.

Both of you correct, but even if you only had one setting it's still a must have. The buttons are not a necessity.

[rlhay2]

BTW for the SRT guys I just took this picture, that's your DSC harness wrapped up and ready to go. I also just spoke with Ben about retrofitting the in dash controls to switch between modes and his comment was that even the "sport, or race mode" rides so much better than the car has ever felt, that even in one mode it's such a massive improvement that it's worth doing.

Now you have my attention!!
Even if it is cost prohibitive for the factory buttons to be installed what is the likelihood of a small dial that could be installed somewhere. The smartphone app is a good option too, but knobs and/or buttons are just so much simpler.

[swexlin]

Both of you correct, but even if you only had one setting it's still a must have. The buttons are not a necessity.

Andy, forgive me if this was already answered, but does the car have to be shipped to you guys to have this done, or will any competent Viper tech be able to handle?

[FLATOUT]

Now you have my attention!!
Even if it is cost prohibitive for the factory buttons to be installed what is the likelihood of a small dial that could be installed somewhere. The smartphone app is a good option too, but knobs and/or buttons are just so much simpler.

I am thinking the smartphone route will be easiest, but I want to say again that the way this suspension reacts and operates completly changes the feel of the car, and Ben mentioned to me multiple times that even the sport or track modes feel great on the street! If I were an SRT owner I wouldn't even worry about going from setting to setting.


Andy, forgive me if this was already answered, but does the car have to be shipped to you guys to have this done, or will any competent Viper tech be able to handle?

We will sell these over the counter as a package. I would prefer you send the car to me but it's not a must, yes a Viper Tech can handle the install.

[FLATOUT]

My first 10 sets will be here at ViperExchange next week! I have a running list of prepaid customers and a list of those ready to purchase once these are arriving. If you have not contacted me email me now, at awheeler@viperexchange.com

I expect all 10 sets of this first batch to be gone by next Friday. I have more coming but don't want to miss anyone that is expecting to be in on this first run.

Again send me an email to the above address so I can make sure you're in the loop as these start to go out!

Andy

[FLATOUT]

Just got a call from our partners on this project and they just set a lap record at Watkins Glenn and took the pole on the same set of Dampers (different springs), and the DSC controller on their Porsche cup car!

Andy

[Trainerdave]

Now you have my attention!!
Even if it is cost prohibitive for the factory buttons to be installed what is the likelihood of a small dial that could be installed somewhere. The smartphone app is a good option too, but knobs and/or buttons are just so much simpler.

And buttons don't crash, need firmware updates , that always have bugs etc...., flatout we thank you for all the info, but the question has been dodged for long enough , I understand viper exchange stand to lose some money on cars already equipped with electronic suspension, but I see you guys are already ordering more base cars, in the long run its a win, win situation.

It's a given that this will work, people just need your confirmation.

[FLATOUT]

Not dodging the question just haven't had the chance to have the dampers here with an extra center console to see. We verified that it indeed does plug into and read from the bus so we know that it will work. What I will do next week is pull the center stack out of my personal car and see what I can figure out on another employees SRT. We most likely will have to install the entire system on his car and swap the center bezel over to verify but there seems to be enough interest to warrant giving it a shot.

Give me just a little bit more time to get that done and we'll go from there.

If you are a current SRT owner that does not have factory electronic suspension but does want to purchase a system like this is the center bezel does work please send me a PM so I can add you to a seperate list.

Andy


And buttons don't crash, need firmware updates , that always have bugs etc...., flatout we thank you for all the info, but the question has been dodged for long enough , I understand viper exchange stand to lose some money on cars already equipped with electronic suspension, but I see you guys are already ordering more base cars, in the long run its a win, win situation.

It's a given that this will work, people just need your confirmation.

[Trainerdave]

Not dodging the question just haven't had the chance to have the dampers here with an extra center console to see. We verified that it indeed does plug into and read from the bus so we know that it will work. What I will do next week is pull the center stack out of my personal car and see what I can figure out on another employees SRT. We most likely will have to install the entire system on his car and swap the center bezel over to verify but there seems to be enough interest to warrant giving it a shot.


Give me just a little bit more time to get that done and we'll go from there.

If you are a current SRT owner that does not have factory electronic suspension but does want to purchase a system like this is the center bezel does work please send me a PM so I can add you to a seperate list.

Andy

Thanks for your quick reply Andy, your response is what I was waiting for, I was 1 day late in buying your TA ,(1 week late from buying Hollywood Orange TA from SW( I have cash) it just a matter of finding the exact car I want.
There are two other cars(both have electronic suspension) that I can't make up my mind on.
The two white ones on here are nice but white,yellow or any red are colors I have no interest in. My car must have the six vent hood and sidewinder wheels(preferably matte)
But I will have either a GTS, TA, within 2 weeks, I'm moving west so the work will be done at viper exchange(there is a competition blue srt at viper exchange that is also in my thoughts as well(the one with the wrapped top)
I used the wrong word when I said dodging, I appreciate everything you are doing.

I know you are a busy man, but my week has been pretty hectic as well, my employment as a fitness professional has landed me time personal time with the Stanley cup next week(I cannot reveal the player or location for,security purposes)
If it doesn't rain the cup will grace the trunk of my current viper, I will make sure either way I will post plenty of pictures.

After this is over I will buy my car, or if worse comes to worse order a 2016.

[FLATOUT]

Awesome Trainerdave! Look forward to working with you!

[FLATOUT]

Wanted to update the thread and help debunk some information I read this weekend in regards to our product. It's still looking like this is the arrival week for our initial run of DSC controlled dampers of wich I believe all 10 sets are spoken for with the second batch not far behind.


I know people feel comfortable using what we did on the Gen IV's on the Gen V's but any way you slice it it's an anolog technology when compared with what we are doing using the DSC controller on the factory bus system.

A couple quick myths to be busted based on the statement below.

"With all the hype about electronic shocks it is amazing how people "in the know" decide that they want to tailor the ride and handling to THEIR needs not their "smart phones" needs, MCS is second to none in providing the best of both worlds that is why they are the only company we work with. Spring rates tailored for each car, ride heights set for individual customer needs, full corner weighting and or proven competition alignments."

1. You can also tailor your spring rates on our Tractive/DSC controlled setup. Absolutely no reason you can't do this if you really want to. I personally would go with what our race team has chosen as many, many laps have been spent fine tuning the setup. And an MCS setup needs to be optimized right out of the box because what you see is what you get, "set it and forget it" approach. If track conditions are changing mid session or even as the day progresses what you have on the car is what you have. On an electronically controlled setup your dampers are constantly making adjustments to improve the cars performance in a way that feels seamless and predictable.

2. Prividing the "best of both worlds" is hard to achieve if you can't switch from setting to setting using your factory dash buttons. Our system truly provides the best of both worlds as it offers a substantially better than factory street setting and much improved on track performance. The definition of the best of both worlds is not a single stoic setting but the option to toggle back and forth for different driving situations in real time.

3. Ride height and corner weight adjustability, is also available on our ViperExchange setups. I must not have mentioned that earlier or it was missed. But you literally have all of the same functions you have always had with even the best damper setups on the market, and now in addition to that you have an active damper that is making adjustments 10,000 times per second based on the the data gathered via the Gen V's bus system.

4. People in the "know" are the first ones snatching up most of these systems, people will be presently surprised to see where these start showing up first. I am going to have a set on my car for the trip to Colorado and will be happy to show them off and offer rides to anyone that might want to check them out.

Andy

[mjorgensen]

Well since this information was pulled directly off my Facebook post about a customers car and all the MCS sales we have been doing I feel comfortable responding to this even though it is not my thread. I find it curious that VE felt the need to clarify anything about the comparison "I" did not make to their product. The factory suspension is electronic and we have been replacing lots of the electronic shocks. All the other comments were made to describe what "WE" Woodhouse Motorsports do when we prepare a customers car with the MCS suspension, I will leave the benefits of the MCS off of this thread.






Wanted to update the thread and help debunk some information I read this weekend in regards to our product. It's still looking like this is the arrival week for our initial run of DSC controlled dampers of wich I believe all 10 sets are spoken for with the second batch not far behind.


I know people feel comfortable using what we did on the Gen IV's on the Gen V's but any way you slice it it's an anolog technology when compared with what we are doing using the DSC controller on the factory bus system.

A couple quick myths to be busted based on the statement below.

"With all the hype about electronic shocks it is amazing how people "in the know" decide that they want to tailor the ride and handling to THEIR needs not their "smart phones" needs, MCS is second to none in providing the best of both worlds that is why they are the only company we work with. Spring rates tailored for each car, ride heights set for individual customer needs, full corner weighting and or proven competition alignments."

1. You can also tailor your spring rates on our Tractive/DSC controlled setup. Absolutely no reason you can't do this if you really want to. I personally would go with what our race team has chosen as many, many laps have been spent fine tuning the setup. And an MCS setup needs to be optimized right out of the box because what you see is what you get, "set it and forget it" approach. If track conditions are changing mid session or even as the day progresses what you have on the car is what you have. On an electronically controlled setup your dampers are constantly making adjustments to improve the cars performance in a way that feels seamless and predictable.

2. Prividing the "best of both worlds" is hard to achieve if you can't switch from setting to setting using your factory dash buttons. Our system truly provides the best of both worlds as it offers a substantially better than factory street setting and much improved on track performance. The definition of the best of both worlds is not a single stoic setting but the option to toggle back and forth for different driving situations in real time.

3. Ride height and corner weight adjustability, is also available on our ViperExchange setups. I must not have mentioned that earlier or it was missed. But you literally have all of the same functions you have always had with even the best damper setups on the market, and now in addition to that you have an active damper that is making adjustments 10,000 times per second based on the the data gathered via the Gen V's bus system.

4. People in the "know" are the first ones snatching up most of these systems, people will be presently surprised to see where these start showing up first. I am going to have a set on my car for the trip to Colorado and will be happy to show them off and offer rides to anyone that might want to check them out.

Andy

[XSnake]

1. You can also tailor your spring rates on our Tractive/DSC controlled setup. Absolutely no reason you can't do this if you really want to. I personally would go with what our race team has chosen as many, many laps have been spent fine tuning the setup. Are you suggesting that people go with the same spring rates as what the race team is running GT3-R? That would be terrible. Maybe you need to clarify what the standard rates are and what options are available. A GT3-R setup would be WAY over-sprung.

[mblgjr]

As a customer of BOTH of these fine establishments...

Each product serves a similar purpose at different price points. Both still have a place in the market depending on the owners needs.

But, one of you has made a couple of vague references to the others product... so...yea things needed to be clarified for those maybe "not so in-the-know".

[FLATOUT]

Are you suggesting that people go with the same spring rates as what the race team is running GT3-R? That would be terrible. Maybe you need to clarify what the standard rates are and what options are available. A GT3-R setup would be WAY over-sprung.

Lol no just meant the rates we tested for the street cars. Almost identical to the TA 1.0 spring rate. Just saying you can run a different spring if you want.

[FLATOUT]

If you didn't mean it that way then my apologies.


Well since this information was pulled directly off my Facebook post about a customers car and all the MCS sales we have been doing I feel comfortable responding to this even though it is not my thread. I find it curious that VE felt the need to clarify anything about the comparison "I" did not make to their product. The factory suspension is electronic and we have been replacing lots of the electronic shocks. All the other comments were made to describe what "WE" Woodhouse Motorsports do when we prepare a customers car with the MCS suspension, I will leave the benefits of the MCS off of this thread.

[LmeaViper]

Glad we got an update as this mod is still rolling around in the back of my head.

[FLATOUT]

Today is the day, I have 10 sets arriving with 8 or 9 of them already spoken and paid for. If you are wanting to get a set on this first batch please contact me ASAP. I have recieved a bunch of emails and PM's over the last month and the last thing I want to do is accidentally leave someone off the list that was looking to get an early set. I'm putting my money where my mouth is and buying a set today as well for my 15 GT.

email is awheeler@viperexchange.com

cell 936-525-0036

Andy

[Bruce H.]

Andy,

You mentioned recently that the spring rates are close to that of the TA. We've discussed in the past that I scuff my TA's front splitter in challenging brake zones on two different tracks, and there's lots of photos of others almost scraping in high load corners like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It would seem like heavier spring rates are required for myself and others on some tracks, and perhaps for many others if they were to lower the car a little. I know Ben's goal was to have a more compliant ride quality for his TA, and that he's also noted an improvement in performance, but I wonder if you could address my spring rate concerns. Thank you.

Bruce

[FLATOUT]

Bruce if you would like a stiffer spring rate we can accomidate. The dampers also are fully ride height adjustable so you can keep the car at the stock TA 1.0 ride height or higher if you like. Our goal during the development process was not just improved road compliance but a big step forward in on track performance as well, which we feel very confident about, based on our testing. A factory suspension will not be able to compete with an active electronic damper reading off the BUS.


Andy,

You mentioned recently that the spring rates are close to that of the TA. We've discussed in the past that I scuff my TA's front splitter in challenging brake zones on two different tracks, and there's lots of photos of others almost scraping in high load corners like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. It would seem like heavier spring rates are required for myself and others on some tracks, and perhaps for many others if they were to lower the car a little. I know Ben's goal was to have a more compliant ride quality for his TA, and that he's also noted an improvement in performance, but I wonder if you could address my spring rate concerns. Thank you.

Bruce

[Bruce H.]

I would want to keep the same height or possibly go slightly lower, with stiffer rates taking care of the nose diving under heavy loads. Since your damper testing and calibration has been done and optimized for your selected softer spring rates, where does that leave me needing and wanting to go stiffer? The dampers and springs obviously need to be matched, and I wouldn't want to try to customize the software myself. Do you think it's possible that down the road an optimized system might be available?

And have you been able to determine whether these dampers are rebuildable, what that recommended service interval might be, and what the procedure and turn-around time will be? Rebuilding or replacing dampers used on the track is an unfortunate necessity. Thanks again.


Bruce if you would like a stiffer spring rate we can accomidate. The dampers also are fully ride height adjustable so you can keep the car at the stock TA 1.0 ride height or higher if you like. Our goal during the development process was not just improved road compliance but a big step forward in on track performance as well, which we feel very confident about, based on our testing. A factory suspension will not be able to compete with an active electronic damper reading off the BUS.

[FLATOUT]

Bruce didn't forget about you. I'll get your questions answered as soon as I can.

[FLATOUT]

I would want to keep the same height or possibly go slightly lower, with stiffer rates taking care of the nose diving under heavy loads. Since your damper testing and calibration has been done and optimized for your selected softer spring rates, where does that leave me needing and wanting to go stiffer? The dampers and springs obviously need to be matched, and I wouldn't want to try to customize the software myself. Do you think it's possible that down the road an optimized system might be available?

And have you been able to determine whether these dampers are rebuildable, what that recommended service interval might be, and what the procedure and turn-around time will be? Rebuilding or replacing dampers used on the track is an unfortunate necessity. Thanks again.

Bruce spoke with our partners on this last night. He said that they run a full Pro race season on these without a problem, check after the season and put them back on the car. He said they are good for multiple season on the Porsche cup car. All repairs/rebuilds would be done by them. He said they have been extremely reliable and have required much less maintenance than other brands even with heavy track use.

As for the stiffer spring rates I'm not understanding why you would want to run the one we have on it since it's the same as the TA 1.0. As for running something stiffer we won't have a problem "optimizing" it for customers.

[Bruce H.]

As for the stiffer spring rates I'm not understanding why you would want to run the one we have on it since it's the same as the TA 1.0. As for running something stiffer we won't have a problem "optimizing" it for customers.

I definitely wouldn't want the spring rates on yours that are the same as the TA's...that's what I keep saying. My gut and past experience tells me I would need to go close to double those front rates to address the nose diving, and a superior damper tuned for that. SRT's TA setup is very effective on track obviously, but increasing the TA's rate by 20 lbs over their touring focused GTS indicates to me that they were restricted by the limitations of the Bilstein electronic shock's valving to provide acceptable ride quality. That's not surprising as this seemed to be a key concern of many prospective buyers. The more significant 35% increase in TA sway bar seems like SRT's attempt to compensate for soft front springs...but that doesn't address the nose diving that I'm experiencing in banked high-grip brake zones.

I'm honestly surprised that VE chose the same spring rates as SRT for those looking to seriously improve what the factory fitted when they have a better damper to maintain ride quality. That comes back to my suggestion that the VE active setup was chosen more to provide improved ride quality than performance, and there's no doubt that will be perfect for many. But it won't address my splitter scraping asphalt under hard braking, which would only get worse if fitted with track pads and stickier tires. I haven't heard of others experiencing this so I guess it just isn't an issue. I'm looking forward to user track feedback with the active system, and thanks for looking into it for me.

[Rapidrezults]

Andy,


Reading the ACR review which apparently notes the tail waggle is still there made me think to ask if you guys have found a way to minimize this with the Tractive setup? I thought I remember reading you did.

Thanks.

[FLATOUT]

Bruce you could not be more wrong in regards to on track performance. You are still thinking about this in analog terms and not what the DSC sport is doing to the damper based on what it is reading on the BUS. Instead of changing the spring rates you can adjust the program via the DSC to fix the problem you are having. The DSC can dial in more damper on those instances that you are running into where you are seeing scraping.

These Dampers were not designed as a simple ride improving solution for the street. I installed my own set on my car last night and have been testing today to see how the car is reacting in both environments. The car is shockingly better in power ON situations. Under braking you feel the car add damper based on how it is reacting to the rate of decel. My car with our Heads and Cam Package makes a lot of power and it's very different to get this car to break loose mid turn.

So my point is I guess that you are looking to solve a front end scrape problem under decel by upping your front spring rates, when you could either raise the car via the ride hieght adjustment or we could look into your track data and change the program in the DSC to keep the nose off the ground in those rare occurances. Nothing about this system is static, everything is adjustable and capable of fixing that specific issue. If you truly wanted to go with a really stiff spring you could but I truly believe it is not neccisary.

I owned the exact TA you currently track, and I also have time on track, and I can tell you immediatly that my 2015 GT with this setup is well ahead of where my TA was, it's very noticable.



I definitely wouldn't want the spring rates on yours that are the same as the TA's...that's what I keep saying. My gut and past experience tells me I would need to go close to double those front rates to address the nose diving, and a superior damper tuned for that. SRT's TA setup is very effective on track obviously, but increasing the TA's rate by 20 lbs over their touring focused GTS indicates to me that they were restricted by the limitations of the Bilstein electronic shock's valving to provide acceptable ride quality. That's not surprising as this seemed to be a key concern of many prospective buyers. The more significant 35% increase in TA sway bar seems like SRT's attempt to compensate for soft front springs...but that doesn't address the nose diving that I'm experiencing in banked high-grip brake zones.

I'm honestly surprised that VE chose the same spring rates as SRT for those looking to seriously improve what the factory fitted when they have a better damper to maintain ride quality. That comes back to my suggestion that the VE active setup was chosen more to provide improved ride quality than performance, and there's no doubt that will be perfect for many. But it won't address my splitter scraping asphalt under hard braking, which would only get worse if fitted with track pads and stickier tires. I haven't heard of others experiencing this so I guess it just isn't an issue. I'm looking forward to user track feedback with the active system, and thanks for looking into it for me.

[FLATOUT]

Ben did not have the tail waggle problem any more when testing the active tractive setup on his TA. The Big break kit and it's new bias fixed some of it, but the active setup really improved any unsettling situations with the car.

I had so much fun driving the car this morning and taking it to lunch, there's just a tremendous amount of grip that is there that wasn't there before at my power level, both in a straight line and in the corners.

Andy


Andy,


Reading the ACR review which apparently notes the tail waggle is still there made me think to ask if you guys have found a way to minimize this with the Tractive setup? I thought I remember reading you did.

Thanks.

[Bruce H.]

Bruce you could not be more wrong in regards to on track performance. You are still thinking about this in analog terms and not what the DSC sport is doing to the damper based on what it is reading on the BUS. Instead of changing the spring rates you can adjust the program via the DSC to fix the problem you are having. The DSC can dial in more damper on those instances that you are running into where you are seeing scraping.

Maybe we could use my misunderstanding of the function of springs and spring rates compared to dampers and valving to educate everyone. I was under the impression that springs, and springs alone, determined the amount that the nose would drop under sustained braking, in the same way that springs and roll bars controlled the amount of body roll. Stiffer springs would reduce the amount of dive, roll, and squat under acceleration for that matter.

And I thought that the function of dampers was limited to controlling how the transfer of weight onto the springs under those loads was done, and that the damper's "low speed" valving specifically determined how that transfer was handled in those events... but in no way could the damper or its valving limit the degree of dive, roll or squat. In a sustained and high-load brake zone and/or corner where a splitter would scrape the damper will always allow the body to drop to the extent that the spring rate determines, and not the damper. The damper's piston travel under load has to be at least as much as the springs can be compressed to prevent the damper from blowing under extreme loads, and it would make sense that even a very advanced active damper could not be setup to limit piston travel as that would either blow the damper, or effectively increase spring rate to infinity (in the same way as if hitting the suspension's bump stops) causing loss of vehicle control, or both.

So I am at a complete loss as to how any damper can affect the degree of nose dive, roll or squat.

A damper's high speed valving comes into play to handle jarring bumps or road irregularities causing high piston speeds, and the low piston speed valving is used under weight transfer events like turning, braking and accelerating. Electronic dampers allow the driver to select two or more damper valve programs to help optimize the damper for different driving conditions, and that's what we have on the Gen V. An active electronic system like yours, or what I had in the Jaguar XKR, takes damper control a step higher by using vehicle and driver inputs to steering, braking, ect to anticipate what the damper's valving needs to do to optimize performance under changing load conditions, and provide maximum comfort when under the limited loads of cruising on smooth roads.

Changing damper valving can make a tremendous difference to a vehicle's performance without making any change to the spring rates. This is a key difference between dampers, and I fully expect that your active system is superior to the OEM Bilsteins, and I wouldn't question claims that it doesn't dramatically improve both track performance and road comfort. That's a given. But I don't believe it can reduce dive, squat or roll under high and sustained loads on track.

So that's what my understanding is, and it may very well be completely wrong. Please school me as I'd really like to understand how your system can take my TA to the next level.

Thanks again,

Bruce

[XSnake]

I was under the impression that springs, and springs alone, determined the amount that the nose would drop under sustained braking, in the same way that springs and roll bars controlled the amount of body roll. Stiffer springs would reduce the amount of dive, roll, and squat under acceleration for that matter.
Not true. Compression also determines the amount of "nose drop" you get. More compression, less drop. At the same time your nose is dropping the rear of the vehicle is becoming light. This is where people are feeling the rear waggle. This can be helped with increased front compression and less rear rebound. You make it harder for the front of the car to go down at the same time keeping the rear of the car from coming up and getting light. Now, to much compression and you overload the tires and you get lock up in the braking zones and under steer through the corners. Springs, shocks/dampers, and tires all have to work in harmony as they are all working in unison. It is ALL about weight transfer. I won't even bring aero into this discussion but it plays a part as well.

Any reputable system is going to have been tested and the valve sizing and spring rates have already been matched up to work in a given set of conditions. Adjusting the compression and rebound is basically fine tuning how the system is working dependent on tire, track, conditions, etc... Changing the spring rates would be a much bigger change in the dynamics of the suspension than fine tuning compression/rebound.

[FLATOUT]

Bruce you are way over thinking this. I can tell you very easily why it's a performance improvement over your TA suspension.

Our Dynamic Tractive/DSC controlled dampers make adjustments 10,000 per second based on real time information taken straight from the CanBus connection.

Your factory TA suspension makes 0 adjustments per second and does not receive any information from your vehicles data systems.

And since he just posted a pic on Instagram I guess I can mention it here. The first retail customer for these was Ralph Gilles. This is an exciting technology for Viper.

[Bruce H.]

Compression also determines the amount of "nose drop" you get. More compression, less drop. At the same time your nose is dropping the rear of the vehicle is becoming light. This is where people are feeling the rear waggle. This can be helped with increased front compression and less rear rebound. You make it harder for the front of the car to go down at the same time keeping the rear of the car from coming up and getting light. Now, to much compression and you overload the tires and you get lock up in the braking zones and under steer through the corners. Springs, shocks/dampers, and tires all have to work in harmony as they are all working in unison. It is ALL about weight transfer. I won't even bring aero into this discussion but it plays a part as well.

I agree with this 100%.


Any reputable system is going to have been tested and the valve sizing and spring rates have already been matched up to work in a given set of conditions.

Absolutely, but my conditions are obviously different because I'm scuffing my splitter on two tracks with very demanding and unusual banked brake zones and other TA owners aren't. That track condition does not exist at Watkin's Glen, Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta, or VIR that I also drive, nor at the many other tracks that I've seen video from. My conditions and needs are different, and if I upgrade brakes or tires I will definitely scrape more, and if I did both it could be pretty bad. Would the change to active damping with stock springs be enough...I don't know. Have they been tested and calibrated to cover my unique track conditions...I doubt it. Is raising the ride height of the front of the car to compensate an acceptable solution if I find that it can't prevent the nose from scraping? That doesn't sound like an acceptable solution for any street, track day or race car.


Bruce you are way over thinking this. I can tell you very easily why it's a performance improvement over your TA suspension.

Our Dynamic Tractive/DSC controlled dampers make adjustments 10,000 per second based on real time information taken straight from the CanBus connection.

Your factory TA suspension makes 0 adjustments per second and does not receive any information from your vehicles data systems.

Active damper control is an ideal way to improve comfort under low load conditions and maximize tire contact patch and grip under demanding loads, regardless of spring rate. I get it. But track performance is still dependent on choosing a suitable spring rate for the application, which always means spring rate increases as track and vehicle demands increases, and the better the damper the higher the spring rate that can be used before ride quality becomes too harsh. Neither of your responses gives me assurance that the stock spring rates with these dampers will prevent nose dive enough, regardless of how the damper valving is calibrated. It would take all the guess work out of it if (or perhaps when) you offer a tested system that's been calibrated with stiffer springs for more demanding use.


And since he just posted a pic on Instagram I guess I can mention it here. The first retail customer for these was Ralph Gilles. This is an exciting technology for Viper.

Now that was a totally shameless name-dropping :) I'll have to ask him if he scuffs his splitter braking into T5a at Mosport or into Namarrow at Le Circuit Mont Tremblant when running slicks. If he doesn't then I'll know you've nailed it right out of the gate. And if he does scrape you owe me a beer!

[XSnake]

Absolutely, but my conditions are obviously different because I'm scuffing my splitter on two tracks with very demanding and unusual banked brake zones and other TA owners aren't. That track condition does not exist at Watkin's Glen, Road America, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta, or VIR that I also drive, nor at the many other tracks that I've seen video from. My conditions and needs are different, and if I upgrade brakes or tires I will definitely scrape more, and if I did both it could be pretty bad. Would the change to active damping with stock springs be enough...I don't know. Have they been tested and calibrated to cover my unique track conditions...I doubt it. Is raising the ride height of the front of the car to compensate an acceptable solution if I find that it can't prevent the nose from scraping? That doesn't sound like an acceptable solution for any street, track day or race car.


I have no idea what tracks these systems have been tested on and I don't know enough about these systems and how they work to comment on what they would do for you. I can tell you from what you are describing that you need more control of how your suspension is working for what you are doing with your car. Most of the folks that track regularly do as they get faster. Now, if these things adjust for you 10k times per second then thats impressive. Theres no getting under the car between sessions and making manual adjustments to compression and rebound. Again, I just don't know and haven't researched them because I'm not in the market for a suspension.

[FLATOUT]

Bruce you are still hung up on scraping the splitters you have three full inches of ride height adjustability. Your current setup has none.

I mentioned Ralph because in the past you have mentioned and quoted the factory folks when defending the stock components. Some of those same people are the earliest adopters of this technology. Many times components or technology that could improve your Viper didn't make the final production cut based on a business case and not whether it improved the car on street or track. This product would fall into that category. Now owners have the option, as they do with larger brakes, and HP packages for the car.

[KB Viper]

Andy--I've been reading through this thread and admit up front I am a suspension knob but for owners that wanted a stiffer spring could/would you accommodate?
Kris

[lmcgrew79]

Just throwing heavier springs on the car isnt a good idea. There is a equation based on sprung weight, unsprung weight, motion ration, spring angle, etc. etc. to calculate the correct spring rate for any given corner. I believe the TA is setup soft because a soft setup based on natural frequencies of the sprung mass offers more mechanical grip. The reason the acr and race cars need higher spring rate is to compensate for lower ride heights/lower cog, higher aerodynamics, to keep the car from bottoming out and keeping the alignment settings more stable, its a compromise because of the advantages of the aero and lower roll center. Im guessing there is good reason the viper exchange springs are close to the TA, is probably because they used the same calculations. The advantage of the ever changing compression rebound settings its to keep the tire in contact with the road as much as possible, which is the same goal of any suspension setup, this one can just change real time based on testing which is a really neat feature. Its kinda proactive instead of reactive. There is so much suspension setup info out there it will make your head spin. Could you stiffen the car so the splitters dont hit yes, is it gonna help your lap times? Probably not. As far as the rear wiggle under hard braking, my e46 m3 and my 08 with mcs shocks with different spring rate setups did it as well. Sticky tires will help tremendously as will less brake pad in the rear. I think part of the wiggle is because the rear toe change under braking. Sometimes its provoked by the driver moving the steering wheel to much under braking. It may zap a bit of confidence until you get used it, but its not gonna swap ends on you.

[FLATOUT]

Andy--I've been reading through this thread and admit up front I am a suspension knob but for owners that wanted a stiffer spring could/would you accommodate?
Kris

Yes we can but I would only suggest it on a big down force car like ACR. In track mode the damper package is setup very, very nice. Ben did all of the on track testing in his TA with TPC Racing. Having owned a TA and a GT I can easily say this is an improvement over both stock set ups on bother street and when pushing the car hard.

[darbgnik]

OK, no experience on the subject, but I remember reading, when the ZR1 came out, that the magnetorheological shocks would allow the car to squat out of the hole increasing traction. One could surmise that the same technique could do the opposite? The VE setup should be able to better the MR shocks performance in this area? Excerpted below:




Exceeding 1 g of lateral grip is no small feat, but Chevrolet says the ZR1 will do it. How? The role of fat rubber in achieving this peak number can't be ignored, but a sophisticated suspension system allows the ZR1 to shine no matter what the road condition. Though it uses the same basic front/rear SLA setup of other Corvettes (albeit with tweaks like larger anti-roll bars), the big news is the ZR1's use of a retuned version of the Magnetic Selective Ride Control that is optional on base Vettes. Many readers are probably already familiar with this system: by using special fluid exposed to magnetic fields, the damping properties of its shock absorbers can be altered in only thousandths of a second. This allows the system to adapt to driver inputs and changing conditions of the road virtually instantaneously.

Recently upgraded to Gen II spec for the 2008 model year, the MR system (as the engineers call it) is considered by most a near-$2,000 luxury alternative to the Z51 performance package on base Vettes. But for the ZR1, it's been retuned to allow for a top-notch suspension good enough for a supercar--with a ride quality that, although not soft per se, is said to be significantly more compliant than that of a Z06 when set in "touring" mode. A good part of the latter has to do with the MR system enabling the engineers to soften the rates of the composite leaf springs: the front spring is that used in Z51 cars, and the rear uses a modified Z06 spring with a bit less material. "In the past, we engineers had to compromise between ride quality and the way the car handles on a racetrack," says Danahy. "But with the MR system, you get the best of both worlds, as its variable damping allows the system to be tuned both for the track and for the street. [Corvette Chief Engineer] Tom Wallace likes to say this is a good car for going to get bread and milk--and it is. It's really a nice car to drive on the street!"

Delivering the best possible amount of grip to the tires along with a smooth ride is great, but the ZR1 also features a new, previously untapped side benefit to the MR system that is probably of additional interest to GMHTP readers (many of whom are, shall we say, "drag-happy"). Anyone who has driven a stock C6 Z06 surely knows that car's amazing propensity for traction, even from a slow-speed throttle stab. The situation can quickly change on hopped-up cars with aftermarket turbo kits and the like, so it's no stretch to imagine the additional 130 lb-ft (give or take) of blower-induced twist that will be provided by the LS9 would roast meats of any width in similar fashion. The MR system provides one nice solution by automatically detecting a high rate of lift on the front of the car and kicking the damping of the shocks down to around 33 percent, allowing maximum weight transfer to the back tires. Damping rates can then be modulated up to around 90 percent to hold it there as the car begins to accelerate. "So basically it allows the car to sit, squat, and then go. It's like an electronic traction bar," says Danahy. "It works great and we didn't have to engineer any new hardware. We just changed some 0s and 1s!"

Read more: http://www.superchevy.com/features/0805gmhtp-2009-chevy-corvette-zr1-the-once-and-future-king/zr1-suspension.html#ixzz3gITuzvMx
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[FLATOUT]

Brad that is interesting and does sound similar. I put 250 miles on my car today to really get comfortable with the package. Man it's so nice :D Really really impressed with how the car feels when you push it.

[Steve M]

Bruce you are still hung up on scraping the splitters you have three full inches of ride height adjustability. Your current setup has none.

I mentioned Ralph because in the past you have mentioned and quoted the factory folks when defending the stock components. Some of those same people are the earliest adopters of this technology. Many times components or technology that could improve your Viper didn't make the final production cut based on a business case and not whether it improved the car on street or track. This product would fall into that category. Now owners have the option, as they do with larger brakes, and HP packages for the car.


Bruce you are way over thinking this. I can tell you very easily why it's a performance improvement over your TA suspension.

Our Dynamic Tractive/DSC controlled dampers make adjustments 10,000 per second based on real time information taken straight from the CanBus connection.

Your factory TA suspension makes 0 adjustments per second and does not receive any information from your vehicles data systems.

And since he just posted a pic on Instagram I guess I can mention it here. The first retail customer for these was Ralph Gilles. This is an exciting technology for Viper.

I think Bruce has a legitimate concern here, and is something that I think only more spring rate can cure.

The job of the springs are to support the weight of the car, correct? Shocks are there to damp the springs' oscillations, but they don't support the load. In other words, the spring rates ultimately control how far the suspension will deflect under load, and the shocks control the rate at which that occurs. You can affect the rate of nose dive with the compression settings up front, but ultimately it will still deflect the same amount given enough time. The question is whether or not you can control the deflection long enough to keep the splitter from scraping. It's not like you can magically dial up more spring rate with the shocks...that's just not what shocks do.

I've been running 500/800 (F/R) springs on my street driven '08 for the better part of the past three years...the stock rates were 210/525, so that is a substantial increase over OEM (granted, I don't know if those numbers are the actual working rates given the amount of preload present). The ride doesn't suffer because of it, but why? Because the shocks can control them effectively. The human body is very sensitive to over damped vs. under damped vs. critically damped systems...we don't like a ride that is too harsh (over damped) or too bouncy (under damped), we want it just right.

3 inches of adjustability also doesn't mean much if you are going to lower the car at all...if you are going to lower it, you need higher spring rates to compensate for the travel you just took away from the system. Otherwise, you'll be dragging your expensive body parts around the track, and that's no bueno.

Bottom line: I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Bruce's concerns. He has legitimate issues at certain tracks with too much suspension travel under heavy braking...the best these shocks could do would be to slow the rate at which the nose dives, but they ultimately can't stop how far it deflects. I guess you could manually limit it with bump stops, but you'll pay the price with a lack of stability when you slam into them.

My $0.02, probably worth less.

[FLATOUT]

No one is dismissing Bruce's concerns. This is what I said we could do with this package.

1. He could choose any spring rate he wants.
2. He could adjust the ride height higher to compensate
3. We could look into adjusting the program calibration to help with his specific problem.

There is no other damper package on the market for Viper that can get this in depth with a problem like that. The stock setup offers only one of those two solutions (changing spring rate).

[XSnake]

You can affect the rate of nose dive with the compression settings up front, but ultimately it will still deflect the same amount given enough time.



Not true. Dampers are affected by load, not time. No matter how long you try and compress the shocks it will be met with the same resistance as long as they are in good working order.

[Rapidrezults]

I have been doing some research on rennlist and other forums, as this seems to be the place that the guys from TPC hang out and answer very technical questions regarding the setup for the Porsche's, which is identical in a lot of ways to the VE version. It appears that because of the massive dynamic range of the dampers they can produce the equivalent of a stiffer spring through the control of the damper. They have referenced some equivelant spring rates at full damping ability for the Porsche applications.(see below) So while the spring rates on the Tractive setup may be equal to those of the TA, interpreting what I'm reading(and I may be wrong), the effective rates combining damping ablity at full load would be more on par with those of the ACR spring rates or slightly less.

Here are some quotes and interesting facts I found sifting through the info:


1. Does the use of your tractive electronic dampers mean you can reduce the spring rate (from say one upgrade to suited to slicks) and the shock somehow covers that aspect of handling, when tracking the car and it will work as well or better?
Yes, we can produce the stiffness equivalent to that of stiffer spring via the electronically controlled damper. How much stiffer would depend on the dynamic range of the damper. In the case of Tractive, their patented DDA valve has huge range.


3. what rate of spring is sold with the damper, vs the stock ones, as options?
[B]For the 997.1 and .2 GT3 the Tractive DDA coilover kit will come standard with 400/700-lb springs. As stated above, this is a very streetable setup and will achieve the effective stiffness of ~700/1100 when peak stiffness is required. We have fitted also custom spring rates of 800/900 and 1400/1400 on full-time race cars. We can offer spring rates from 350-1500 for custom application upon request.[/B[]


"For street use, one could adjust a track-oriented manual adjustable shock fitted with say for example 500-lb spring to be softer but it will never be as compliant and smooth over bumps as DSC with 350-lb springs, which can produce the stiffness equivalent of 700-lb springs when the stiffness is needed."

and some interesting info regarding spring rates and the quality of springs. Swift springs seem to be the ticket.


I have personally tested springs from five sets of B16 Damptronic for GT3/RS/GT2. Of the five sets tested using exactly the same equipment and method, the front springs measured between 331-348 in-lb. and the rear springs measured from 717-731 in-lb. Same part numbers on the springs, however each has a production month/year, the later production are stiffer. I don't know whether or not the extra stiffness was intentional or just happened to be the result of a particular batch of spring wire used in production. Currently, I have B16 Damptronic on my DSC-equipped 997.1 GT3. I swapped out the "short" B16 main/tender front springs to longer 500 in-lb springs. Despite the 50% increase in stiffness the longer 500 springs ride very noticeably nicer and more composed over bumps! Anyone who has ridden in my car can attest to this. I also did the same B16 front spring swap on my previous cars, a 997.1 Carrera S, and got the same results.

I have experimented a great deal with springs over the last 7 years and came to the conclusion that the ride compliance is more than a function of the advertised spring rate. Its also the length of wire used to make the spring, the production method(i.e. pitch of wire, heat treating), and metallurgy engineering. Swift brand springs seem to be on top of the game since they produce their own spring wire exclusively of motorsports to aid frequency control.




Secondly, the Tractive DDA dampers have a much vaster dynamic range than the OEM or Bilstein options, both on the "firm" and on the "soft" end. This allows us to rely less on the springs and achieve more versatility out of a given spring rate.

and lastly, an informational video from the man himself, Michael Levitas:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VbVgELAWs

[Bruce H.]

Not true. Dampers are affected by load, not time. No matter how long you try and compress the shocks it will be met with the same resistance as long as they are in good working order.

Using the example of hard and sustained braking into a hairpin corner, the front damper's piston does apply it's resistance as it's piston shaft is pushed into the damper body, but the piston travel isn't limited to a short travel as in the case of handling a bump, but instead continues to travel further into the damper body as it applies its resistance until the springs increasing resistance stops it from travelling further. That's my understanding of the relationship between the function of the dampers resistance and that of the spring rate.

While my splitter scuffing is a concern, it's more of an indication that the nose dives an awful lot which indicates to me that the springs are a little soft for my needs now, and will become less capable if I increase loads under braking further with stronger brakes and grippier tires. I see photos of others in both cornering and braking that indicate the same. SRT naturally made compromises between street and track use and performance with the SRT, GTS and TA, focusing the TA a little more towards track while knowing full well that very few of them would actually see any serious track use. The ACR is much more focused on serious track use, makes few concessions to street use, and you can see what spring rates they chose. I seriously doubt they would have put a TA suspension on it even if they were using an active damper system. Lots of ACR buyers will never track those either, and the active system should be very appeal for them as well.

I'd really like to read a technical piece that discusses how any damper valving can replace the need for stiffer springs for extreme track use. I'm sure that would clear up all of my misunderstandings, and if anyone has one perhaps they could pass it along. Thanks to all for your comments, and my query was intended to provide a better understanding of the active damper system that may be perfect for many of us.

Bruce

[Rapidrezults]

Andy,

Maybe you could give us some feedback on how the car dives when braking hard from a high speed? How does the dive compare to the stock suspension?

[Bruce H.]

Chris,

Those are great links, and they do claim that their damper technology effectively increases spring rate. Exciting stuff. Looking forward to seeing some Gen V's out there pushing them on a track and providing feedback.

Bruce

[FLATOUT]

Bruce watch that video above with Mike Levitas. He goes into much more depth than I am capable of. Maybe that will help explain things a little more.

[XSnake]

Using the example of hard and sustained braking into a hairpin corner, the front damper's piston does apply it's resistance as it's piston shaft is pushed into the damper body, but the piston travel isn't limited to a short travel as in the case of handling a bump, but instead continues to travel further into the damper body as it applies its resistance until the springs increasing resistance stops it from travelling further. That's my understanding of the relationship between the function of the dampers resistance and that of the spring rate.


If the springs rates were progressive you would be correct. They are not, they are linear. MUCH easier to tune that way.

[FLATOUT]

Andy,

Maybe you could give us some feedback on how the car dives when braking hard from a high speed? How does the dive compare to the stock suspension?

It's night and day improved in street and track modes. Very comfortable in street mode, but not loose or floaty, still feels like a sports car but the ride is much more compliant. In track mode it's much sharper and you can feel the dampers working mid corner, it's a very confidence inspiring feeling. You feel the car actually pushing back against the pavement if the makes sense. It's a different feeling but it's incredible. More planted than my TA ever was and it's much better than the stock dampers on the base and non track model cars.

[TIME]

The springs serve two functions. 1. They support the weight of vehicle, driver, gear etc., above the "unsprung" elements, such as wheels, brakes etc. -and 2. They absorb the energy of movement when the suspension is compressed. A stiffer spring would support/resist more compression/dive. The ACR has stiffer springs simply because it has more aero down-force as compared to the TA - it is in essence "heavier" at speed. Sure, a stiffer spring would somewhat prevent the TA from scraping under load in a hairpin corner. Note though, that on one of the factory ACR pictures, the front splitter is woefully close to the surface! But there is a lot more to it. Electronically continuously adjustable (valve) shocks seems like a great option to keep the wheels in contact with the surface, and Flatout states they are ride height adjustable (not sure how it is done, and how/if it affects the pre-load on the springs). Not to derail this thread but since the ACR is mentioned: It does look like you can adjust the pre-load/sag on the ACR. I.e. compress the spring to accommodate for weight of driver and other gear (pretty awesome). Adjusting sag does not change the spring rate but it allows the spring to be in the "right" position to allow movement of the wheel up and down, to better stay in contact with the surface. Moving the wheel at the right rate to stay in contact with surface is determined by compression and rebound speed rates (the red and blue adjusters on the ACR). This is the rate, at which the valves inside the shock will allow oil to flow as the piston/rod assembly moves up and down. I.e. the rate of speed allowed for the movement of the wheel up and down, all in an effort to follow the track surface. I can see why Dodge kept technicians on hand to assist drivers with suspension adjustments - good idea. No doubt these guys know what they are doing, as they would understand the whole ACR package, before making adjustments. It is easy to get "lost" when there are a lot of "moving" targets that need to all play together for the car to feel just right for you, and your driving style.

[KB Viper]

Andy--does this system incorporate a remote reservoir like the stock setup?
Kris

[FLATOUT]

Andy--does this system incorporate a remote reservoir like the stock setup?
Kris

No it does not which helps with the weight savings as well over the stock system.

[TrackAire]

Andy,

This is some pretty damn cool stuff. Maybe I missed it in this thread, but is the end user going to be able to have access to the program so adjustments can be made to the car like Michael Lewis is doing in the above video using a laptop? I love his phrase when working on his laptop of "I'm programming the car, there is no more turning the knobs".

The real value of this set up will be proven once systems are compared back to back on the track and the resultant lap times are published. For a car like the new ACR, even a 1 second per lap improvement on 2 minute lap would be huge.

[FLATOUT]

I agree once we get these on cars and people start pushing them like we have there's no doubt how many serious track rats will start buying these.

So Michael Levitas who you see in that vid and I spent a bunch of time in Gen V's working on some of the street settings and calibration. I was blown away with what he was doing. We even did drag tunes, roll racing tunes, you name it I threw it at him. We did it all from the laptop.

Yes I do think at somepoint we will have access to tune them. Right now we are not offering them that way but I'm working on that.



Andy,

This is some pretty damn cool stuff. Maybe I missed it in this thread, but is the end user going to be able to have access to the program so adjustments can be made to the car like Michael Lewis is doing in the above video using a laptop? I love his phrase when working on his laptop of "I'm programming the car, there is no more turning the knobs".

The real value of this set up will be proven once systems are compared back to back on the track and the resultant lap times are published. For a car like the new ACR, even a 1 second per lap improvement on 2 minute lap would be huge.

[KB Viper]

Andy--considering the amount of downforce/areo, braking and tire on the new ACR; will you all have a different/specific spring rate and calibration for it? do you know if the ACR has a dual mode suspension like a GTS with a button in the dash?
Kris

[Steve M]

Not true. Dampers are affected by load, not time. No matter how long you try and compress the shocks it will be met with the same resistance as long as they are in good working order.

You just illustrated my point though...the shocks will continue to compress, thus allowing you to scrape under hard braking that is sustained for a long enough period. The shocks won't stop this from happening...what they can do is slow the rate (that's the time component I'm referring to) at which the front dives, so if you can slow it enough, you might be able to eliminate the issue, but I would consider that fixing the symptom, not the problem. If the issue is that the suspension is deflecting too much under heavy braking, you need to address the underlying issue. You can do that two ways: add bump stops (and enjoy the unpredictable things that happen when you slam into them), or add some additional spring rate.

Don't get me wrong - this looks like a sweet setup. I think it would be even sweeter if there were a wide variety of tested spring rates available to address issues such as these.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

From what I've seen of the ACR reviews the suspension seems dialed in. This said, there were SRT engineers at the track adjusting the settings to the ideal. It will be interesting to see how this suspension can improve upon the ACR track handling. Certainly it will provide a more stereetable comfort level and eliminate the need to dial in the shocks manually.

Will there be an ACR specific calibration for these?

[FLATOUT]

From what I've seen of the ACR reviews the suspension seems dialed in. This said, there were SRT engineers at the track adjusting the settings to the ideal. It will be interesting to see how this suspension can improve upon the ACR track handling. Certainly it will provide a more stereetable comfort level and eliminate the need to dial in the shocks manually.

Will there be an ACR specific calibration for these?

So they made 1-2 adjustments between each session to dial it in, the set it and hope for the best approach, trial and error. This style of Damper does the same thing 10,000 times per second, literally constant adjustments in real time, based on current conditions.

Think about fixed aero and active aero cars. Similar difference in technology.

[lmcgrew79]

For those wanting a pretty good reading on suspension download Vehicle Dynamics and Damping by Jan Zuijdijk

[XSnake]

You just illustrated my point though...the shocks will continue to compress, thus allowing you to scrape under hard braking that is sustained for a long enough period. The shocks won't stop this from happening...


Yours won't, mine will because I can adjust them.

[Mark1107]

Hey Flatout, any updates for a 2014 base SRT Viper? I have a 14 I'd like to buy this for with the buttons added to my center dash...

Mark
15 Sublime Green Challenger Hellcat
15 Daytona Sunrise Orange Corvette Z06
14 Gun Metal Pearl SRT Viper
14 Fullsize Range Rover White
13 Range Rover Sport white (wife's)

[FLATOUT]

Hi Mark let's talk tomorrow. Send me your number awheeler@viperexchange.com

Andy


Hey Flatout, any updates for a 2014 base SRT Viper? I have a 14 I'd like to buy this for with the buttons added to my center dash...

Mark
15 Sublime Green Challenger Hellcat
15 Daytona Sunrise Orange Corvette Z06
14 Gun Metal Pearl SRT Viper
14 Fullsize Range Rover White
13 Range Rover Sport white (wife's)

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

I installed mine this weekend Took about 5 hrs but everything fit great
I can't believe how much lighter the are
The ride is night and day it is so different and incredibly smooth even the race mode is very smooth
if anyone wants to come drive my car I'm happy to share :drive:
please give me a call
I am at the Palm Beach airport in Florida
Thanks
Wayne
cell 561-307-1521
12054

[Simms]

I installed mine this weekend Took about 5 hrs but everything fit great
I can't believe how much lighter the are
The ride is night and day it is so different and incredibly smooth even the race mode is very smooth
if anyone wants to come drive my car I'm happy to share :drive:
please give me a call
I am at the Palm Beach airport in Florida
Thanks
Wayne
cell 561-307-1521
12054

Sounds great! Can you post some feedback after you have them on the track?

[FLATOUT]

Sounds Wayne! So far everyone that has installed a set has been very happy.

Also for those of you asking about the reservoir design or lack of remote reservoir. I'm at the track with Billy Riley and the race team. Bill told me that remote reservoirs aren't mandatory, but function to help cool the fluid in the damper. Depending on the style of internal valve the damper will need more or less cooling. Our Tractive dampers incorporate Tractives DDA Technology internally which help them run cooler and thus the need for a remote reservoir is not needed.

I also spoke with him about running an electronic setup like this on the GTD Race car and he said he wishes they could but they are not permitted within class rules.

Andy

[KB Viper]

Sounds Wayne! So far everyone that has installed a set has been very happy.

Also for those of you asking about the reservoir design or lack of remote reservoir. I'm at the track with Billy Riley and the race team. Bill told me that remote reservoirs aren't mandatory, but function to help cool the fluid in the damper. Depending on the style of internal valve the damper will need more or less cooling. Our Tractive dampers incorporate Tractives DDA Technology internally which help them run cooler and thus the need for a remote reservoir is not needed.

I also spoke with him about running an electronic setup like this on the GTD Race car and he said he wishes they could but they are not permitted within class rules.

Andy

Andy--for those who buy these for their GTS, if we end up with an ACR can these be swapped into an ACR with a heavier spring and new calibration?
Kris

[FLATOUT]

Andy--for those who buy these for their GTS, if we end up with an ACR can these be swapped into an ACR with a heavier spring and new calibration?
Kris

Yep.

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

We ran Sebring on Saturday with Chin Motorsport. The morning was fairly dry. Running the R6 Hoosier the car was consistent around 2:15 that's about 7 seconds faster than my normal and I know it could go faster. The rains came in the afternoon so I put the P zeros back on
We ran in heavy rain the guys at Chin said there was a 30' rooster tail coming off the back of the car and the vortices coming off the car looked like a jet flying through a cloud. I got sideways a few times but the car was very predictable we still hit 150 mph on the back straight and turn 17 which usually scares the $hit out of me was a non issue. So all I can tell you about the Damper's is that they are the real deal.
Thanks
Wayne

[Simms]

7 seconds?! That's awesome!

Andy, any advantages to running TA sway bars with these shocks or can I just keep my GTS bars?

[FLATOUT]

7 seconds?! That's awesome!

Andy, any advantages to running TA sway bars with these shocks or can I just keep my GTS bars?

Ralph has run very fast with his hollow sway bars but I'm sure the solid units help or they would have left them all hollow. I'm currently driving from Houston to Colorado for the bucket list event and the dampers are really nice on the long drive. We have an autocross scheduled in Steamboat so I'll get to push them a little.

[FLATOUT]

That's awesome Wayne! The more sets that get out on track the more user feedback we'll get like this. I can't wait to get mine out.



We ran Sebring on Saturday with Chin Motorsport. The morning was fairly dry. Running the R6 Hoosier the car was consistent around 2:15 that's about 7 seconds faster than my normal and I know it could go faster. The rains came in the afternoon so I put the P zeros back on
We ran in heavy rain the guys at Chin said there was a 30' rooster tail coming off the back of the car and the vortices coming off the car looked like a jet flying through a cloud. I got sideways a few times but the car was very predictable we still hit 150 mph on the back straight and turn 17 which usually scares the $hit out of me was a non issue. So all I can tell you about the Damper's is that they are the real deal.
Thanks
Wayne

[ViperSmith]

I installed mine this weekend Took about 5 hrs but everything fit great
I can't believe how much lighter the are
The ride is night and day it is so different and incredibly smooth even the race mode is very smooth
if anyone wants to come drive my car I'm happy to share :drive:
please give me a call
I am at the Palm Beach airport in Florida
Thanks
Wayne
cell 561-307-1521
12054

Coming down to Boca in August, may take you up on it!!

[ACR Steve]

7 seconds incorporates the Hoosiers into the equation? Would love to hear what it did without the tire factor

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

7 seconds incorporates the Hoosiers into the equation? Would love to hear what it did without the tire factor

Nope same tires for both times
It is really amazing the difference the dampers make. The car sticks and accelerates like never before
I never would have thought they could make such a difference
Thanks
Wayne

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

Coming down to Boca in August, may take you up on it!!
Come on down I may try PBIR on the 2nd and run Sebring again on the 15th

[Tiago]

Nope same tires for both times
It is really amazing the difference the dampers make. The car sticks and accelerates like never before
I never would have thought they could make such a difference
Thanks
Wayne


wow

[FLATOUT]

Just pushed my car hard in the Colorado mountains and damn they are good. The harder the car goes into the corner the harder they press to keep the tires planted. Crazy grip.

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

Here are some shots of my car at Sebring

12173
12175
12176
12177
12180

Thanks
Wayne

[allans]

Wayne, I'm sure you know, but for others, 2:15s at Sebring with an essentially stock production car is Hauling Axx ! Best, Allan

[XSnake]

Wayne, I'm sure you know, but for others, 2:15s at Sebring with an essentially stock production car is Hauling Axx ! Best, Allan

2:15 would be faster than Ben driving a Gen 4 ACR there which is VERY hard to believe. Your conditions were also terrible this weekend. You have any video Wayne?

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

Wayne, I'm sure you know, but for others, 2:15s at Sebring with an essentially stock production car is Hauling Axx ! Best, Allan

The car is not exactly stock I have my aero package, 15" carbon brakes front and back, Arrow controler, ARH headers, full 3" exhaust no cats I would think the car makes over 700hp and the Tractive dampers all on Hoosier R6's I would bet Ben could put my car into the very low two's or high 1:50's The car is seriously fast and no big wing to slow it down plus it has more brake under it than everything but the new ACR
Thanks
Wayne

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

2:15 would be faster than Ben driving a Gen 4 ACR there which is VERY hard to believe. Your conditions were also terrible this weekend. You have any video Wayne?

I haven't had time to look over what I have I think it's mostly in the wet but I will post something when I can make it smaller. I will try and pull something off the timer

[Snakebit10]

I wonder if a Ralph got a chance to experience these dampers on his own car would he then seriously consider them as future stock for the Viper? I can only imagine what these dampers would do with those Khumos, brakes and that ungodly aero of the ACR....Shudders....

[XTREME SUPERCARS]

I wonder if a Ralph got a chance to experience these dampers on his own car would he then seriously consider them as future stock for the Viper? I can only imagine what these dampers would do with those Khumos, brakes and that ungodly aero of the ACR....Shudders....

That car will be truly insane and exactly what I'll do when Ording my ACR add a head and cam package
Can you say DOMINATE

[FLATOUT]

I wonder if a Ralph got a chance to experience these dampers on his own car would he then seriously consider them as future stock for the Viper? I can only imagine what these dampers would do with those Khumos, brakes and that ungodly aero of the ACR....Shudders....

Hypercar stuff ;) If there's any product we have that I could see being picked up for production in the future this would be it.

[Snakebit10]

That car will be truly insane and exactly what I'll do when Ording my ACR add a head and cam package
Can you say DOMINATE

My sentiments exactly...I am also thinking that with just this suspension added to the stock ACR it just may run with or beat those Hyper cars at Laguna etc. A stock TA with slicks did a 1:30 at Laguna so I can just imagine what an ACR stock would do with just this suspension added. With the heads and cam and suspension package an ACR will beat those stock hypers imho at Laguna etc. Really excited to see the ACR run stock and with these VE mods...


Hypercar stuff ;) If there's any product we have that I could see being picked up for production in the future this would be it.
Ha I was thinking exactly what you wrote just minutes apart. Indeed hypercar stuff....Cant wait for the numbers all around stock and modified.

[Simms]

Andy,

Can these be shipped already adjusted with a drop? Something along the lines as the same drop as the VE caps?

[FLATOUT]

Andy,

Can these be shipped already adjusted with a drop? Something along the lines as the same drop as the VE caps?

Yes I can set them up that way or tell you how many turns to accomplish what you're asking.

[Simms]

Yes I can set them up that way or tell you how many turns to accomplish what you're asking.

Perfect. Thanks!

[Rapidrezults]

Andy,

It looks like Ralph got some track time in with the suspension over the weekend. He posted a small comment on instagram that I found interesting.

Were you able to get any feedback from him in regards to track performance of the suspension?

[FLATOUT]

Yep we have been talking. Gratan where he runs is one of the bumpier circuits out there. I think we are going to tweak or create a new "bumpy" track setup for some of the more extreme tracks across the country that customers might visit. He was happy with the car in street mode there so we'll find a spot in the middle and I think it will perform well in an environment like that.

Really happy to get his feedback, we have had some of the most experienced Viper people in the community tweaking this and it really improves it for all of us.

I also just spent 2800 miles in my car from Houston to Steamboat and ran autocross while I was there and the car ran very, very well. I had both of our test cars on the trip and the other driver loved the new suspension. Said he could use the throttle to keep the car right where he wanted it on the autocross course, very predictable.

Andy

Andy,

It looks like Ralph got some track time in with the suspension over the weekend. He posted a small comment on instagram that I found interesting.

Were you able to get any feedback from him in regards to track performance of the suspension?

[FLATOUT]

Here's a quick vid from the Autocross at the Bucketlist event in Colorado. The car is on 91 octane at alttitude in Steamboat and performed very well. This was the first time I have autocrossed my 15. TA definitely had better brakes lol. Most of the quick autocross times at the event were under 50 seconds with the fastest times coming in around mid 45's-47's. Richard Sewell won the autocross in our other ViperExchange test car with the Heads and Cam, Suspension and Big Brake Kit with a 44.90 run. I ran two back to back 44.40's but knicked a cone both times so after the 2 second penalty I was out. This particular run I think I went 46.3 and wasn't too happy at the end lol.

The flagger in the vid is Colorado Club President Jim Johnson.

Andy



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV6spuGrRQI

[Snakebit10]

It would be interesting to know what Ralph did to his old ACR on slicks that was 1.1 secs faster than his 13 with brand new slicks, VE suspension and engine mods at this track. Sorry to hear the suspension setup didn't wow him on this particular track. Will he be retesting it at the same track with the bumpy track tweaks you mentioned? Maybe he can experience it on a smoother track to get a good idea of how much improved it is than the stock dampers.

[FLATOUT]

It would be interesting to know what Ralph did to his old ACR on slicks that was 1.1 secs faster than his 13 with brand new slicks, VE suspension and engine mods at this track. Sorry to hear the suspension setup didn't wow him on this particular track. Will he be retesting it at the same track with the bumpy track tweaks you mentioned? Maybe he can experience it on a smoother track to get a good idea of how much improved it is than the stock dampers.

He was on old slicks not new slicks, and he has been very impressed with the setup per our conversations. Gratan is exceptionally bumpy so we are working on a bumpy track calibration that should improve things a bit in that environment. He is still very excited about the technology.

[XSnake]

It would be interesting to know what Ralph did to his old ACR on slicks that was 1.1 secs faster than his 13 with brand new slicks, VE suspension and engine mods at this track. Sorry to hear the suspension setup didn't wow him on this particular track. Will he be retesting it at the same track with the bumpy track tweaks you mentioned? Maybe he can experience it on a smoother track to get a good idea of how much improved it is than the stock dampers.

There is no replacement for real aero on a car. If you drive a car with it you will understand.

[FLATOUT]

There is no replacement for real aero on a car. If you drive a car with it you will understand.

I agree it does make a huge difference but I do expect his 13 to go quicker once we get it dialed in a little better on that surface. Having owned and tracked an ACR I know what you are talking about.

[darbgnik]

So the track setup he tried was too stiff for Baja, did he try the street setting on the track?

[FLATOUT]

So the track setup he tried was too stiff for Baja, did he try the street setting on the track?

That was what we gathered, he did like street mode on that track and really likes it on the stree but honestly it was probably a little soft to get the most out of that mode on track. We are working on a specific calibration for that track with him and once we get it nailed we'll use it as our baseline bumpy track configuration. Most everyone should stick with the current track tune though as moderatly bumpy to smooth tracks will benifit more from the current config. And he did like it, just noticed that the ABS was a little hyperactive. We'll make some changes and go play some more.

[Snakebit10]

There is no replacement for real aero on a car. If you drive a car with it you will understand.

he got to within 1.1 secs of he ACR time with the 13...That 1.1 is within the reach of better tires and suspension tweaks of the 13 without any more aero.

[FLATOUT]

he got to within 1.1 secs of he ACR time with the 13...That 1.1 is within the reach of better tires and suspension tweaks of the 13 without any more aero.

He'll end up faster, I know he will :)

[lmcgrew79]

Ralphs gen 5 is modded in the hp department, im guessing his acr was as well? Would love to see if you'll had the time, same track and day run a baseline car swap shocks and run it again with a consistent/pro driver. Obviously stock to stock the TA and the gen 4 acr run about the the same lap times, it depends on what track your running whether or not the aero/suspension setups helps or hurts you.

[FLATOUT]

Ralphs gen 5 is modded in the hp department, im guessing his acr was as well? Would love to see if you'll had the time, same track and day run a baseline car swap shocks and run it again with a consistent/pro driver. Obviously stock to stock the TA and the gen 4 acr run about the the same lap times, it depends on what track your running whether or not the aero/suspension setups helps or hurts you.

We will be testing with Ralph next weekend in his gen V with our setup. I can't wait to see just quick it goes in the heat. I hope he's on fresh tires. I think his last time out he was on an old set.

[FLATOUT]

I can't do an accurate job of explaining how cool this technology is and how good the car is. I am fortunate enough to drive quite a few Vipers working at ViperExchange and the cars ride and react so differently without the new dampers. I am completely spoiled with how great the cars now ride and perform with this setup.

I have been diving into the tuning software with TPC and the control you have at each corner is extensive. I have even been able to create some new features specific to straight line racing that are really slick. My GT at WOT transfers weight and uses the rear dampers in a totally new way to keep the rear tires planted. I am now playing with the front dampers to keep the front quiet. Just wanted to show everyone how things are progressing and just how well these are working on the car.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5748/20631890139_b94fb8e739_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xraQ8M)image (https://flic.kr/p/xraQ8M) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/679/20630643778_fd0ea28e0d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xr4rCN)image (https://flic.kr/p/xr4rCN) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[Rapidrezults]

We will be testing with Ralph next weekend in his gen V with our setup. I can't wait to see just quick it goes in the heat. I hope he's on fresh tires. I think his last time out he was on an old set.

What track are you guys testing at? I can't wait to hear about his results with the new updates.

[FLATOUT]

What track are you guys testing at? I can't wait to hear about his results with the new updates.

His home track (Gratan) most likely.

[XSnake]

Ralphs gen 5 is modded in the hp department

He's also got the BBK kit

[Mag-Yum]

Been thinkin about this mod for some time now and I'm curious where things stand NOW that there are quite a few ACR's out there. Has anyone done this to their new ACR and tested it compared to the OEM setup? Curious as well to see how a TA 2.0 with this and it's better Aero would do compared to a new ACR Extreme?

[FLATOUT]

Been thinkin about this mod for some time now and I'm curious where things stand NOW that there are quite a few ACR's out there. Has anyone done this to their new ACR and tested it compared to the OEM setup? Curious as well to see how a TA 2.0 with this and it's better Aero would do compared to a new ACR Extreme?

Sorry I missed this when you originally posted. These have been great on the track and on the street! CJ Wilson has been flying on these in CA in his 16 ACR and we have had TA, and non TA owners setting personal bests all over the country. We are planning on setting up some demo cars for NVE 2 so you guys can ride along and see how good the car is on the street and the track.

The setup has been really great for drag racing as well. My car has ZERO wheel hop and leaves the line HARD over and over.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDsLWMofP4k

[KB Viper]

I love my tractive suspension. It's hard to describe cause most think the car rides soft all the time but it is amazing how the car rides smooth on the freeway but as soon as you get on it tightens up and really preforms.

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

Yes, I Did The Tractive To My 2016 ACR, But My Mistake Was Doing It, Before Driving It With The Stock Shocks ,So I Myself Have No Way To Compare The Diff, But It Does Drive Awesome , Kicking Myself Doing It That Way, But The Car Was Bought There ,And Had Them Install It, And Lower The Car A 1/2 Inch And Do The String Alignment. So I Am No Good To You On That , But Do Love The Ride .

[FLATOUT]

I love my tractive suspension. It's hard to describe cause most think the car rides soft all the time but it is amazing how the car rides smooth on the freeway but as soon as you get on it tightens up and really preforms.

Kris your feedback has been awesome on the package and I am glad that you like it so much. I forget that I have it on the car and then hop in a gen V at work with the stock dampers and it reminds me how good they are on the car.


Yes, I Did The Tractive To My 2016 ACR, But My Mistake Was Doing It, Before Driving It With The Stock Shocks ,So I Myself Have No Way To Compare The Diff, But It Does Drive Awesome , Kicking Myself Doing It That Way, But The Car Was Bought There ,And Had Them Install It, And Lower The Car A 1/2 Inch And Do The String Alignment. So I Am No Good To You On That , But Do Love The Ride .

And I really appreciate you taking that leap of faith with the ACR. CJ Wilson also had us install it on his ACR when he took delivery as well and he has been tracking the car a lot and has also been very happy with his results. I would love to see more Gen V owners try these on even for the improved ride quality on the street.

Andy

[KB Viper]

if any current Gen V owners are on the fence about the Tractive suspension or heads and cam package and live in SoCal hit me up. i'm more than happy to do a test drive.

[Jdmuscle]

^^ that's very nice of you. Good to see a very friendly community.

[Coder]

Andy - how long does it take to do the install of the suspension? I'd be driving down from Western Canada... so if it's a 3 day drive there, 3 day drive home.. I'm curious how long you need the car for.

thx man!

[FLATOUT]

Andy - how long does it take to do the install of the suspension? I'd be driving down from Western Canada... so if it's a 3 day drive there, 3 day drive home.. I'm curious how long you need the car for.

thx man!

We can do the swap in a couple hours and I'd also do an alignment at the same time. Send me an email awheeler@viperexchange.com and we'll get you on the books.

[KB Viper]

^^ that's very nice of you. Good to see a very friendly community.

No problem, I love showing off technology that really works. I had 5k miles in my last viper and it had the mcs stage 2 suspension on it, then I had 8k miles in this GTS with the dual mode suspension and now I'm at 16k miles so I've got 8k miles of seat time with the DCS tractive and I can tell you with experience the tractive blows away the stockers and MCS. first with mcs there are no "modes" you litterly are doing laps around your track or hieghborhood then jacking the car up and adjusting one click of rebound and one click of compression until you get to setup you like, well ther problem with that is one set up doesn't fit all applications. With DCS the suspension is making adjustments electronically with a computer. On the freeway the front does not bounce around, when doing hard take offs the rear wheels don't hop and in turns the car pushes back when you getting after it. its litterly analog vs digital.

[Jdmuscle]

Andy - how long does it take to do the install of the suspension? I'd be driving down from Western Canada... so if it's a 3 day drive there, 3 day drive home.. I'm curious how long you need the car for.

thx man!

That'll be one hell of a trip... Take pics all along the way and post them up. Lots of scenic areas on the way. Wish I can do a trip like that!!

[Mag-Yum]

Sorry I missed this when you originally posted. These have been great on the track and on the street! CJ Wilson has been flying on these in CA in his 16 ACR and we have had TA, and non TA owners setting personal bests all over the country. We are planning on setting up some demo cars for NVE 2 so you guys can ride along and see how good the car is on the street and the track.

The setup has been really great for drag racing as well. My car has ZERO wheel hop and leaves the line HARD over and over.

LOL! No problem. Yah....was hearing crickets for a while. Ha Thanks for getting back to me. I had another question about this. I remember possibly reading that this can adjust the ride height? But is that only the way adjustable coil-overs do or can it do it electronically as well? I would love a feature that raises the front ride height for getting in and out of those situations that cause the nose to rub on the underside. For those of us that live where the terrain is anything but flat. 50% of the time I have to pass my driveway, go up the street a bit and do a "U" turn so I can hit the driveway entrance at a safer angle to the nose.

I'll be sending my car up to Prefix for a chop-top Targa. Is it safe to assume this the Dynamic Suspension System package they're offering? That way I can kill two birds.

[FLATOUT]

Correct Prefix buys these from me. No ride height on the fly adjustment unfortunately.


LOL! No problem. Yah....was hearing crickets for a while. Ha Thanks for getting back to me. I had another question about this. I remember possibly reading that this can adjust the ride height? But is that only the way adjustable coil-overs do or can it do it electronically as well? I would love a feature that raises the front ride height for getting in and out of those situations that cause the nose to rub on the underside. For those of us that live where the terrain is anything but flat. 50% of the time I have to pass my driveway, go up the street a bit and do a "U" turn so I can hit the driveway entrance at a safer angle to the nose.

I'll be sending my car up to Prefix for a chop-top Targa. Is it safe to assume this the Dynamic Suspension System package they're offering? That way I can kill two birds.

[ViperSmith]

Andy,

What is necessary for the SRT model? Total cost, do you need to update the panel. If so/option cost for that?

[FLATOUT]

Andy,

What is necessary for the SRT model? Total cost, do you need to update the panel. If so/option cost for that?

Yessir you need to upgrade your center stack with the bi mode buttons. The center stack from Mopar retails for close to 700$ but I throw it in at our cost if you buy the suspension from us. The dampers and DSC controller, plus tuning software is 6,700. Our cost on the center stack controls is mid 400's I believe.

[Coloviper]

Andy, I am looking at a used 2014 SRT, if I get it, I will be picking up this suspension from you boys. When you mean you upgrade the center stack, what part are you actually referring to? Got a picture for a novice like me?

[Jdmuscle]

Center stack where the hard buttons are there for the climate, radio etc. it's one piece I believe that goes around the navigation.

[Coloviper]

Thanks JD, the car I am looking at has the Carbon Fiber interior option. Does replacing the center stack require any change of the factory carbon fiber beauty work in that area. My main reason for asking the question as well as I am still trying to wrap my head around exactly what the piece encompasses. Thanks!

[Jdmuscle]

Ahh.. Not too sure. Maybe you can buy the center stack and swap out the switches. If try to keep the carbon surround as its a very nice piece.

[ViperSmith]

Yessir you need to upgrade your center stack with the bi mode buttons. The center stack from Mopar retails for close to 700$ but I throw it in at our cost if you buy the suspension from us. The dampers and DSC controller, plus tuning software is 6,700. Our cost on the center stack controls is mid 400's I believe.

Thanks. It'll be later this year but curious.

[Coloviper]

If I have to run something else, other than the carbon fiber factory beauty work in that area, then it is a no go. I am sure Andy will respond when he has time.

[ViperSmith]

You can order the Carbon replacement as well. I assume you can easily sell existing the CF central stack to someone

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

I Had My Center Panel Changed Out, And Have The Carbon Int ,And It All Stays In Tact ,It Is Just The Panel You Change Out ,It's No 10 Minute Change , I Can Say That , VE Has Done A Number Of These, And They Now Have It Down. You Must Take It Slow ,Lots Of Hidden Screws And Bolts. And The Center Console Must Slide Back Too Remove The Center Panel. Had Mine Done At Tators And Morgan At VE,Was Walking Rob Through On What To Remove, Took About 3 Hrs, This Was His 1ST Time Doing This.

[Coloviper]

Thanks Kool! So it changes everything behind the carbon beauty work so when done, you just reinstall the factory beauty work over the new center stack.

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

Thanks Kool! So it changes everything behind the carbon beauty work so when done, you just reinstall the factory beauty work over the new center stack.

Yes , Snaps Back In ,And Thats It. Clean Install ,Looks Factory Done.

[Coloviper]

Awesome! Awesome! Thank you!

[FLATOUT]

Awesome! Awesome! Thank you!

Thanks Koolasp :) really what we have to replace is the module but Mopar won't sell it separately so we bought all of the existing surrounds so that we could get the modules. So yes you'll retain all of your factory carbon we'll just update the module to the bi mode buttons! Great questions guys!

Andy

[One Viper Bite]

Wow, the more an more I read about VE, the more I'm intrigued! I just got into a slightly used 13 GTS. Having driven the new C7 Z06, Lamborghini Hurracan, 458 Italia and a number of other supercars, the one thing I feel my GTS is lacking is in the suspension department. Even with the dual mode, I feel like it just doesn't cut it. Street mode is decent for putting around town, but not confidence inspiring otherwise! The rear end dances a bit too much under hard acceleration and in the canyons is not confidence inspiring. Yet I feel track mode is too stiff for canyon driving and not sophisticated enough to handle technical roads that change rapidly. I have yet to track it.

My question is, seeing how Ralph runs this on this personal Viper and VE has a good relationship with FCA, will this void my 3 year / 36,000 mile extended Mopar warranty?

[ViperSmith]

Wow, the more an more I read about VE, the more I'm intrigued! I just got into a slightly used 13 GTS. Having driven the new C7 Z06, Lamborghini Hurracan, 458 Italia and a number of other supercars, the one thing I feel my GTS is lacking is in the suspension department. Even with the dual mode, I feel like it just doesn't cut it. Street mode is decent for putting around town, but not confidence inspiring otherwise! The rear end dances a bit too much under hard acceleration and in the canyons is not confidence inspiring. Yet I feel track mode is too stiff for canyon driving and not sophisticated enough to handle technical roads that change rapidly. I have yet to track it.

My question is, seeing how Ralph runs this on this personal Viper and VE has a good relationship with FCA, will this void my 3 year / 36,000 mile extended Mopar warranty?

What would it void specifically? Replacing suspension parts is no different than replacing exhaust, well at least in my view.

[KB Viper]

Wow, the more an more I read about VE, the more I'm intrigued! I just got into a slightly used 13 GTS. Having driven the new C7 Z06, Lamborghini Hurracan, 458 Italia and a number of other supercars, the one thing I feel my GTS is lacking is in the suspension department. Even with the dual mode, I feel like it just doesn't cut it. Street mode is decent for putting around town, but not confidence inspiring otherwise! The rear end dances a bit too much under hard acceleration and in the canyons is not confidence inspiring. Yet I feel track mode is too stiff for canyon driving and not sophisticated enough to handle technical roads that change rapidly. I have yet to track it.

My question is, seeing how Ralph runs this on this personal Viper and VE has a good relationship with FCA, will this void my 3 year / 36,000 mile extended Mopar warranty?

The VE tractive suspension rocks! I've had it on my GTS for 9k miles and it cures all the front end hop on the freeway and it helps lay down the power evenly. I had a friend and viper GTS owner drive mine a couple weeks ago and he couldn't get over how dialed in my suspension was compared to his. As for the warranty I've got a lot of mods and haven't been denied any warranty work what so ever. Also the tractive has its own warranty and when my right rear dampener was clicking Andy replaced it without question, so you're in good hands dealing with him. He even sent the new dampener out first and I put the old one back in the same box and used the prepaid label to ship it back.

[Vprbite]

Correct Prefix buys these from me. No ride height on the fly adjustment unfortunately.

The ride height adjustment from the cab, on the fly, however you call it isn't the most difficult thing in the world to accomplish fromman engineering standpoint as clearly it's been done. But as I understand it, it would add A LOT of weight and could compromise the performamce aspect of the suspension. At least that is my understanding. Also, cost of designing would make it pretty pricey because only a certain amount will be sold.

Seems like people love this suspension and the factory look inside. Congratulations on designing such a great product.

[darbgnik]

Can't wait to test mine out! Thinking of doing my first track day this year, in 2 weeks, on the stockers, for a fresh comparison.......

I also got one of Andy's surrounds, so there's one less!

[Simms]

Can't wait!!!

http://driveviper.com/gallery/data/500/medium/image83.jpg

http://driveviper.com/gallery/data/500/medium/image84.jpg

[Space Truckin]

Very cool, that is for sure my next mod....:United_States:

[FLATOUT]

Correct on many points, yes it can be done, yes it's heavy, yes it would change things quite a bit. We played around with different things to accomplish an on the fly adjustment but backed away for some of those reasons.


The ride height adjustment from the cab, on the fly, however you call it isn't the most difficult thing in the world to accomplish fromman engineering standpoint as clearly it's been done. But as I understand it, it would add A LOT of weight and could compromise the performamce aspect of the suspension. At least that is my understanding. Also, cost of designing would make it pretty pricey because only a certain amount will be sold.

Seems like people love this suspension and the factory look inside. Congratulations on designing such a great product.

[FLATOUT]

As already mentioned your warranty will be fine. Give me a call you'll love the dampers.

Andy


Wow, the more an more I read about VE, the more I'm intrigued! I just got into a slightly used 13 GTS. Having driven the new C7 Z06, Lamborghini Hurracan, 458 Italia and a number of other supercars, the one thing I feel my GTS is lacking is in the suspension department. Even with the dual mode, I feel like it just doesn't cut it. Street mode is decent for putting around town, but not confidence inspiring otherwise! The rear end dances a bit too much under hard acceleration and in the canyons is not confidence inspiring. Yet I feel track mode is too stiff for canyon driving and not sophisticated enough to handle technical roads that change rapidly. I have yet to track it.

My question is, seeing how Ralph runs this on this personal Viper and VE has a good relationship with FCA, will this void my 3 year / 36,000 mile extended Mopar warranty?

[FLATOUT]

Very cool, that is for sure my next mod....:United_States:

I love these on ACR's having a street mode button is such a nice thing to have on that car.

[FLATOUT]

For those of you attending NVE, Mike Levitas, Ben Keating, and Myself will be there to answer questions and demo these dampers.

Andy

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

Hey Andy , My Only Complaint Is My Wheel Jerks Left And Right When The Suspension Moves ,Which Feels Like A Bumpsteer Issue , You Did The String Alignment On The Car , I May Have Too Have Your Alignment Checked, The Ride Is Real Firm, Just Don't Have Nothing To Compare It Too,Never Drove The Car On The Stock Shocks, To Say It Is Better, So I'm On The Fence On This Setup, May Go Back To The Stock shocks, And See.

[darbgnik]

Just got my Viper Exchange DSC suspension wrapped up today. What a noticeable improvement! What surprised me however, is that it rides better, even in race mode, takes all the harshness away. What surprised me more, is even driving around town, I preferred the race mode better, with the street mode only beating it out when the pavement was particularly destroyed.....

Thanks again Andy and Morgan for answering my questions. I would have had a hell of a time with the interior without some guidance. Even needed an explanation of how the controller connectors worked........

I'll be doing a DIY write up of the procedure, for anyone not lucky enough to be within driving distance of V/E.

[darbgnik]

Just completed the DIY in word, but it seemed to transfer to the forum script OK. It's in the how-to section below. Hopefully this will save at least one person from some of the mistakes I made, as well as show guys it's doable themselves, and doesn't require a trip to Texas!

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13666-DSC-suspension-DIY?p=217043#post217043

[Simms]

Just got my Viper Exchange DSC suspension wrapped up today. What a noticeable improvement! What surprised me however, is that it rides better, even in race mode, takes all the harshness away. What surprised me more, is even driving around town, I preferred the race mode better, with the street mode only beating it out when the pavement was particularly destroyed.....

Thanks again Andy and Morgan for answering my questions. I would have had a hell of a time with the interior without some guidance. Even needed an explanation of how the controller connectors worked........

I'll be doing a DIY write up of the procedure, for anyone not lucky enough to be within driving distance of V/E.

Who's setup or tune are you using.

[darbgnik]

Ben Keating setup

[darbgnik]

Andy

I've got a question that I figured I'd post here, that way the information is available to all. I have read that when there is an issue with the factory bimode shocks, there is a warning light or the suspension will be stuck in one mode. Does the DSC controller have the same provision? And in failure, does the shock resort to an ordinary dumb shock?

[KB Viper]

Just got my Viper Exchange DSC suspension wrapped up today. What a noticeable improvement! What surprised me however, is that it rides better, even in race mode, takes all the harshness away. What surprised me more, is even driving around town, I preferred the race mode better, with the street mode only beating it out when the pavement was particularly destroyed.....

Thanks again Andy and Morgan for answering my questions. I would have had a hell of a time with the interior without some guidance. Even needed an explanation of how the controller connectors worked........

I'll be doing a DIY write up of the procedure, for anyone not lucky enough to be within driving distance of V/E.

I'm glad you are enjoying them. i installed mine on my GTS last August and love them. Install was pretty straight forward, but i did replace all the shock nuts cuz i read somewhere they were one time use. like you, i now ride in race mode all the time except for when i'm on the freeway, i put it in street and it complete eliminates any front end movement. I hope VE sells a ton more of these setups so they are rewarded for their work, this system is amazing.

[darbgnik]

As a side benefit, my car now sits level using the recommended height settings. The factory coilover had my front passenger 1/2" higher than the driver side. I didn't compensate for it, the factory springs were just off apparently.

[KB Viper]

As a side benefit, my car now sits level using the recommended height settings. The factory coilover had my front passenger 1/2" higher than the driver side. I didn't compensate for it, the factory springs were just off apparently.

you know what brother, i had the exact same issue. my drivers side was exactly 1/2inch higher and now my car sits dead nuts even.

[Space Truckin]

Got my Viper back today from Dan Cragin/ SPT and omg...before the haters start understand this, I know my ACR E is a fuqin track BEAST and most would call what I did sacrilege. But I live with my wife (she optioned the ACR E as if it were a GTS, every box checked only way I could get the car) and basically I now own a street terror. Upon pick up, it is instantaneous once you hit the street "something" is different and boy oh boy is it different, you can almost feel the computer communicating with the dampeners. I drove the car 42 miles back home on shitty Ca highways and what a freakin pleasure (it didn't hurt Dan Cragin did my ARH headers also, hahaha). For those of you who prefer spanner wrenches (analog) god bless you, but for those of you like tech (digital). If you are even remotely considering the Tractive jump freakin in, the car is a completely different Animal with Viper Exchange Tractive Suspension...JM2C

[FSTENUF]

WELCOME TO THE CLUB SPACE TRUCKIN !! Just like I told you. You will never go back to spanner wrenches. Now you see why I had it installed at NVE2 and then did a 1245 mile test ride home to Pa. Andy and the rest of the crew at Tom Ball know there shit and Mike's set up was spot on. I have my first track night coming up in 2 weeks and can't wait to see how it hooks up on the track ball's out. Enjoy it buddy:dude3::monkeyleft::dude3::monkeyleft:

[Whitey]

Got my Viper back today from Dan Cragin/ SPT and omg...before the haters start understand this, I know my ACR E is a fuqin track BEAST and most would call what I did sacrilege. But I live with my wife (she optioned the ACR E as if it were a GTS, every box checked only way I could get the car) and basically I now own a street terror. Upon pick up, it is instantaneous once you hit the street "something" is different and boy oh boy is it different, you can almost feel the computer communicating with the dampeners. I drove the car 42 miles back home on shitty Ca highways and what a freakin pleasure (it didn't hurt Dan Cragin did my ARH headers also, hahaha). For those of you who prefer spanner wrenches (analog) god bless you, but for those of you like tech (digital). If you are even remotely considering the Tractive jump freakin in, the car is a completely different Animal with Viper Exchange Tractive Suspension...JM2C

Congrats! Can't wait to see it..

[Space Truckin]

WELCOME TO THE CLUB SPACE TRUCKIN !! Just like I told you. You will never go back to spanner wrenches. Now you see why I had it installed at NVE2 and then did a 1245 mile test ride home to Pa. Andy and the rest of the crew at Tom Ball know there shit and Mike's set up was spot on. I have my first track night coming up in 2 weeks and can't wait to see how it hooks up on the track ball's out. Enjoy it buddy:dude3::monkeyleft::dude3::monkeyleft:

Thanks John,
It is soo Cool, just took my wife out to dinner and CBTL and grins from ear to ear, as we know it is still a sports car but NO horrendous JOLTS

:drive:

[FLATOUT]

Great question, We have it setup to default to full firm if there is any failure. If you want to see what that feels like unplug a damper or disconnect your DSC.

Andy


Andy

I've got a question that I figured I'd post here, that way the information is available to all. I have read that when there is an issue with the factory bimode shocks, there is a warning light or the suspension will be stuck in one mode. Does the DSC controller have the same provision? And in failure, does the shock resort to an ordinary dumb shock?

[FLATOUT]

Your phone call was great yesterday! Glad you are happy, I think it's the best mod you can do for a gen V Viper street or track.

Thanks for the kind words everyone, plenty in stock and these are going on our new Force1 V10 Supercar also.

Andy



Got my Viper back today from Dan Cragin/ SPT and omg...before the haters start understand this, I know my ACR E is a fuqin track BEAST and most would call what I did sacrilege. But I live with my wife (she optioned the ACR E as if it were a GTS, every box checked only way I could get the car) and basically I now own a street terror. Upon pick up, it is instantaneous once you hit the street "something" is different and boy oh boy is it different, you can almost feel the computer communicating with the dampeners. I drove the car 42 miles back home on shitty Ca highways and what a freakin pleasure (it didn't hurt Dan Cragin did my ARH headers also, hahaha). For those of you who prefer spanner wrenches (analog) god bless you, but for those of you like tech (digital). If you are even remotely considering the Tractive jump freakin in, the car is a completely different Animal with Viper Exchange Tractive Suspension...JM2C

[FLATOUT]

Thanks John,
It is soo Cool, just took my wife out to dinner and CBTL and grins from ear to ear, as we know it is still a sports car but NO horrendous JOLTS

:drive:

Agree the car is so much nicer on the street.

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

It's Much Nicer On The Street ,With The standard Spring, The ACR Spring Is For Track Only, Sucks On The Street , Hated It , Sent The Car To Mike Lavitas At TPC Racing ,And He Did The Car Over, His Alignment , Corner Balance,Plus 7 Degrees In The Rear, And Changed Out The Springs And Lowered The Ride Height, Rides Killer, What A Pleasure, Hey Space Truckin ,You Must Have The Same Spring Set Up As Me.

[Space Truckin]

It's Much Nicer On The Street ,With The standard Spring, The ACR Spring Is For Track Only, Sucks On The Street , Hated It , Sent The Car To Mike Lavitas At TPC Racing ,And He Did The Car Over, His Alignment , Corner Balance,Plus 7 Degrees In The Rear, And Changed Out The Springs And Lowered The Ride Height, Rides Killer, What A Pleasure, Hey Space Truckin ,You Must Have The Same Spring Set Up As Me.

Since I am not a track rat, my mods are street specific and after talking with others who track their cars, it seemed to me this would be perfect for the street. If I remember correctly stock ACR E springs are 700/900, Andy recommended 300/700 since I would not be reaching mph to engage full aero, he also pre programmed my DSC controller with Mike Levitas's parameters and ride height. I think the beauty of the system is you pre program for a specific track and boom, but for me I can sometimes drive five different shitty CA.highways (yesterday on way home I used 3) and the Tractive will make the adjustments instantly. The system is wonderful for the street, it makes the car so LIVABLE...JM2C


:drive:

[FLATOUT]

It's Much Nicer On The Street ,With The standard Spring, The ACR Spring Is For Track Only, Sucks On The Street , Hated It , Sent The Car To Mike Lavitas At TPC Racing ,And He Did The Car Over, His Alignment , Corner Balance,Plus 7 Degrees In The Rear, And Changed Out The Springs And Lowered The Ride Height, Rides Killer, What A Pleasure, Hey Space Truckin ,You Must Have The Same Spring Set Up As Me.

The spring rate that was on your set was what Mike wanted for the ACR's. After more road miles and feedback we decided to go back to a softer spring rate which is what you have now. Glad the new setup is more to your liking.

Andy

[dmann]

My car is not even delivered and I want this.

Andy,
PM me the pricing with and without install.

[catwood]

The shocks are awesome and should be installed from the factory. The street ride is so much improved and honestly that is worth the price of admission. Track benefits are for sure a plus.

[Mark1107]

Got my Viper back today from Dan Cragin/ SPT and omg...before the haters start understand this, I know my ACR E is a fuqin track BEAST and most would call what I did sacrilege. But I live with my wife (she optioned the ACR E as if it were a GTS, every box checked only way I could get the car) and basically I now own a street terror. Upon pick up, it is instantaneous once you hit the street "something" is different and boy oh boy is it different, you can almost feel the computer communicating with the dampeners. I drove the car 42 miles back home on shitty Ca highways and what a freakin pleasure (it didn't hurt Dan Cragin did my ARH headers also, hahaha). For those of you who prefer spanner wrenches (analog) god bless you, but for those of you like tech (digital). If you are even remotely considering the Tractive jump freakin in, the car is a completely different Animal with Viper Exchange Tractive Suspension...JM2C

Space truckin if this is your car, I'm really disappointed with you....lol. 208202082220821 I saw this at Dan Cragins...spt!