New Intake Concept for Gen V!! - Tell me what you think!

[timberwolf]

Hi Guys,
I was staring at the engine bay thinking about adding smooth tubes and also pondering the marvels of the stock ram air intake system and how aftermarket filters fail at speed. I was also wondering how we could enhance air flow and encourage the ram air effect by funneling air into the intake manifolds with less bends and restrictions. The idea here is to keep the bottom of the air box and filter element since they are best designed for the task, then to create a smooth trumpet like top to direct air cleanly into the manifolds. You might need to add a silicon connectors for potential flex but the idea is to make the air passage as fluid as possible.

Note: I am not a tuner, just a designer sharing an idea in a freeware format. :)

Tell me what you think! If it sucks.. Disregard the post. If I'm on to something.. Someone make this sucker! :)

Thanks,

Greg
10652

10657

[SRT BILL]

Wolf, sounds like a good idea. Will it work? Not a clue.

[99RT10]

I like it. Do a before and after on the Dyno, then take it out on the road for a butt-dyno check.

[timberwolf]

I like it. Do a before and after on the Dyno, then take it out on the road for a butt-dyno check.

It's merely a computer rendering!!

[Voice of Reason]

This reminds me of the "intake lids" that were made for LS1 F-Body cars. Those showed an improvement so it's possible to work here.

[Nine Ball]

It would probably work. As mentioned, the LS1 f-bodies had a similar box style, and the aftermarket lids were worth 12-15 rwhp on a 300hp engine.

[cashcorn]

Great idea. Maybe, made from some sort of heat resistant material. The first thing I really want to change are the fuggly hose clamps on the intake tubes. looks really half ass.. imo

[Voice of Reason]

This is now the third thing on this car that I wish I had a 3D scanner and printer so I could mock up some pieces.

[timberwolf]

It would probably work. As mentioned, the LS1 f-bodies had a similar box style, and the aftermarket lids were worth 12-15 rwhp on a 300hp engine.

Sounds like a worthy mod! If 300hp can yield 15, then we have to have over 30 with the 8.4L V10! Now to make it real!

[ViperPete]

If it worked, id buy one.

[Aspirations57]

Would that intake have separate compartments? Will there be turbulence inside it because of its size? I have no idea just some thoughts.

[timberwolf]

If it worked, id buy one.

This could be nice!!10656

[timberwolf]

Would that intake have separate compartments? Will there be turbulence inside it because of its size? I have no idea just some thoughts.

I am by no means an engineer or expert in aerodynamics, but I would ideally see something that reminds me of my old Kenne Bell throttle body. The idea with the ram air is to have a constant diminishing radius so that the air gets condensed and forced into the intake manifold. I don't think you want a chamber effect which could cause turbulence. AGAIN NOT AN EXPERT!!!

10658

[Space Truckin]

If it worked, id buy one.

^^^what he said ^^^X2 :D

[Steve M]

It would probably work. As mentioned, the LS1 f-bodies had a similar box style, and the aftermarket lids were worth 12-15 rwhp on a 300hp engine.

Yes, but as you'll recall, the stock LS1 F-body lids had a whole crapload of ribbing on the underside that presented a flow restriction. The aftermarket lids got rid of that, and was likely responsible for the majority of the gains.

[dethred]

Would cone filters give it a more aggressive sound vs. the panel filter? I know certain motors the difference will be marginal at best, but how does the V10 sound with them? Maybe incorporate that with the tubes passing through it and into the ram air box? Just an idea...

[Steve M]

I will also say this: Vipers (Gen 4s at least, and probably Gen 5s) are very sensitive to any changes to the intake tract. There were some guys with Gen 4s that had their cars go into limp mode with something as simple as smooth tubes...same thing when they tried to remove the rain deflector from the hood. We can now get around this with HPTuners (I can only assume the Arrow PCM would be similar), but I'd be leery of trying this with a stock calibration.

[MBG2.0]

Looks wayyyy cool

Couple thoughts

You need some sort of flex section since the motor moves slightly when driving and shifting

Lower part of box is still slightly restricted and it also has a good size hole ( meant to drain water)that lets hot radiator air into the intake

How much air flow can the front intake scope support..?

Nice job dude

[timberwolf]

Would cone filters give it a more aggressive sound vs. the panel filter? I know certain motors the difference will be marginal at best, but how does the V10 sound with them? Maybe incorporate that with the tubes passing through it and into the ram air box? Just an idea...
Everything ive read on aftermarker cones or other filters is that they fail at speed where the stock unit is designed to handle the pressure, or the ram effect.


Looks wayyyy cool

Couple thoughts

You need some sort of flex section since the motor moves slightly when driving and shifting

Lower part of box is still slightly restricted and it also has a good size hole ( meant to drain water)that lets hot radiator air into the intake

How much air flow can the front intake scope support..?

Nice job dude
I mentioned adding silicone hose at the joints to allow for twist and flex under load.
Regarding the lower section, my rendering is purely cosmetic based on visual inspection of the unit assembled. If i get the time, ill pull the box apart and study the design, and try to design the lower portion. Im hoping a real tuner will chime in and give some input.
Anyway thanks for the kinf words

Greg

[Disturbed]

I can build that out of CF. Just give me the file and I can build it.

[Victxv10]

I will also say this: Vipers (Gen 4s at least, and probably Gen 5s) are very sensitive to any changes to the intake tract. There were some guys with Gen 4s that had their cars go into limp mode with something as simple as smooth tubes...same thing when they tried to remove the rain deflector from the hood. We can now get around this with HPTuners (I can only assume the Arrow PCM would be similar), but I'd be leery of trying this with a stock calibration.

My 08 went into limp mode using the k&n typhoon kit when I installed the rain filter covers.

Here is pic of the GT3-R set up.

[Voice of Reason]

For the MAF sensor to function properly does the diameter of the section it's placed in need to match the stock size exactly? If it didn't match wouldn't the volume of air be different that the engine was expecting and throw the tune off?

[triblk6spd]

I'm certainly no expert but the philosophy seems sound.

[Dan Cragin]

Increasing the volume of the airbox is often helpful. This has been used very successfully with motorcycles.

[khalid_viper]

^^^what he said ^^^X2 :D

me to one more here for me plzzzzzz

:t1236:

[outnumbered]

^^^what he said ^^^X2 :D


Ditto

[FLATOUT]

Interesting :)

[timberwolf]

For the MAF sensor to function properly does the diameter of the section it's placed in need to match the stock size exactly? If it didn't match wouldn't the volume of air be different that the engine was expecting and throw the tune off?

That can easily be dealt with. Since the radius is diminishing, you place the MAF at that exact measurement. Again we would need an expert for this. I'm not sure if distance of the MAF between the filter and the manifold have significance. Where are the pros??!!

[Jack B]

In general your closed loop maf function will change as would open loop. The change might set a cel. Your LTFT will tell you very quickly.


That can easily be dealt with. Since the radius is diminishing, you place the MAF at that exact measurement. Again we would need an expert for this. I'm not sure if distance of the MAF between the filter and the manifold have significance. Where are the pros??!!

[timberwolf]

Interesting :)

Come on brother you have the resources and all the smart guys within reach! :)
I've named this thing the Venom Air Extractor lol
I just want powa!

[99RT10]

Come on brother you have the resources and all the smart guys within reach! :)
I've named this thing the Venom Air Extractor lol
I just want powa!


PM Disturbed(post #20), he does excellent work with carbon fibre.

10669

[timberwolf]

In general your closed loop maf function will change as would open loop. The change might set a cel. Your LTFT will tell you very quickly.

So a tune would be required?

[Steve M]

So a tune would be required?

You wouldn't know for certain until you tried it - the car could go into limp mode, or it could make more power across the board. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these cars do not respond well to changes to the intake tract with the stock calibration.

[Jack B]

Just like Steve said, it has to be tried. The LTFT will tell you the results for closed loop. I built a very similar setup for my G2.



You wouldn't know for certain until you tried it - the car could go into limp mode, or it could make more power across the board. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these cars do not respond well to changes to the intake tract with the stock calibration.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Looks interesting. Maybe you could have a rapid prototype model produced to test it.

[timberwolf]

Looks interesting. Maybe you could have a rapid prototype model produced to test it.

Yeah this was merely a concept. To get to a rapid prototype would require a total disassembly of the intake and much time spent measuring and what not. Since I don't have easy access to this type of rapid prototype "growing machine" I was hoping a vendor could get inspired :) The ideal way to do this is to scan the existing engine bay to determine exact clearance for perfect fit. I just don't have those tools.

[Victxv10]

I may be able to knock one out of sheet metal. I know it's not the best choice, but easy to bend and fasten.

[ViperSmith]

winkles needs to get on this site :)

[timberwolf]

I may be able to knock one out of sheet metal. I know it's not the best choice, but easy to bend and fasten.
I like what I'm reading!


winkles needs to get on this site :)
Indeed!

[kdaviper]

I may be able to knock one out of sheet metal. I know it's not the best choice, but easy to bend and fasten.

or find a company that does rapid prototyping to print one out of plastic. will be the easiest rout imo if he has the cad files already

[timberwolf]

or find a company that does rapid prototyping to print one out of plastic. will be the easiest rout imo if he has the cad files already

Again requires lots of measuring, cad work and good ol trial and error. I may try at some point

[Evan@D3PE]

We do scanning and printing/prototyping here at D3 Performance Engineering ;)

Lots more Gen5 stuff in the works as well!



http://i58.tinypic.com/21j3f4p.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/hwctug.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/nqd3ck.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ag9pn9.jpg

[FLATOUT]

Come on brother you have the resources and all the smart guys within reach! :)
I've named this thing the Venom Air Extractor lol
I just want powa!

I'm right there with you it's such an addiction lol. I'll let you know what I found out for you :)

Andy

[jvm728]

We do scanning and printing/prototyping here at D3 Performance Engineering ;)

Lots more Gen5 stuff in the works as well!



http://i58.tinypic.com/21j3f4p.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/hwctug.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/nqd3ck.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ag9pn9.jpg

great work.

[KB Viper]

[QUOTE=Evan@D3PE;136432]We do scanning and printing/prototyping here at D3 Performance Engineering ;)

Lots more Gen5 stuff in the works as well!

Dang E, what are y'all cooking up over there????

[Evan@D3PE]

[QUOTE=Evan@D3PE;136432]We do scanning and printing/prototyping here at D3 Performance Engineering ;)

Lots more Gen5 stuff in the works as well!

Dang E, what are y'all cooking up over there????

Got my own GTS to play with too ;) covering all the bases!

[Victxv10]

We do scanning and printing/prototyping here at D3 Performance Engineering ;)

Lots more Gen5 stuff in the works as well!





http://i59.tinypic.com/hwctug.jpg

So can the top half of this be made with a flange that bolts to the stock air box?

[ViperPete]

What would be the benefit of that intake? Looks like a ton of extra weight and complexity- have some extra bling... but lose the ram-air effect of the stock intake.

I'm all about innovation but I don't see the point.

It does look beautiful however...

[socal]

What would be the benefit of that intake? Looks like a ton of extra weight and complexity- have some extra bling... but lose the ram-air effect of the stock intake.

I'm all about innovation but I don't see the point.

It does look beautiful however...

Think it's an intercooler.

[Evan@D3PE]

So can the top half of this be made with a flange that bolts to the stock air box?

Yeah sorry that is part of our twin turbo package and just posted as an example of our design, rapid prototyping, and final product

[timberwolf]

Yeah sorry that is part of our twin turbo package and just posted as an example of our design, rapid prototyping, and final product
Looks like a chunk of the work is done!

[timberwolf]

Yeah sorry that is part of our twin turbo package and just posted as an example of our design, rapid prototyping, and final product

What software are you using if you dont mind sharing? Or PM me if confidential

Greg