Can't decide - Gen3 or Gen4

[Ninjazx71]

Hey guys, new the the site but wanted to get some good info so I can decide what I want to get into. I know this topic has probably been covered a bazillion different times, but don't want to start reviving old threads asking a bunch of different questions.

Looking to get either a Gen3 or Gen4 Viper soon, but am still torn between the 2. My last fun car was an '03 Cobra I built to about 625rwhp. I know a Viper with the same power would feel even faster, so I'm honestly thinking something in that power range will suffice for quite a long time. For those of you that have had both, or have already gone through this decision making process, what's the deal? From what I've found thus far...

Gen3 - Concerns about interior heat with exhaust, bearing issues?, 100HP less, weak brakes, not as nice trans (T56?), poor tires. Easier to mod though and can be built to be same power as Gen4 for a little less than the difference in cost between a Gen3/Gen4. Better throttle response and a bit easier on the checkbook to get into.

Gen4 - More power, better heat inside due to reworked exhaust, better brakes, better tires, better trans, more stout engine, but not as easy to mod?, better hood (personal preference... ;-) ). Hear the drive-by-wire throttle is a bit lagged and takes some getting use to, and ECU doesn't really allow for as easy tuning?. Cost wise it's also averaging about $10k more.

I've read people saying that all around the Gen4 is a much more refined car vs. the Gen3, however many people still prefer the Gen3 instead. The car will be a fun car, but could still be daily driven from time to time during the nice months here in Chicago. As the agent said in "Usual Suspects".... Convince me... :-)

Thanks!

[CarolinaViper]

Have a Gen III....keeping it as is a convertible, purchasing a Gen V for the most of the reasons you stated in the Gen IV paragraph. Gen III brakes are fine, you might be thinking of the Gen I & II brakes, tires (Runflats)not an issue, as they would have to be changed anyway (rubber to old).

You would probable spend as much in the Gen III to get the HP of a Gen IV...so get the IV and improve on that, as they can be modified now...search the threads for upgrades to Gen IV & V.

[swexlin]

There is no difference in the stock brakes from Gen 3 and Gen 4 (except Gen 4 ACR). And they aren't weak, trust me, I had a Gen 3, and the are good.

[ACRucrazy]

I was in the same boat when I bought my first Viper, I went with Gen IV. 600WHP with simple headers/exhaust/tune is pretty standard. Plus the better clutch/trans/rear end right off the bat. Price is pretty comparable these days if you are shopping for a coupe.

[jvm728]

Make me an offer on mine if you want. I'm thinking of going gen 5.

[Joel]

Never had a power problem with my Gen3 car and the torque in a Gen3 seems to be better at low RPM than a Gen4. Gen4's are drive by wire which seems to be a bit disconcerting to me. Brakes are no problem and are the same as a Gen4. For the extra $$$ in a Gen4, you can modify a Gen3 with cat back exhaust, gear, etc. to really suit you. Seems like price will determine your choice. All in all, it just money if you really like the car and prices on these cars seem to be pretty firm. But the best things about Gen3 and Gen4's is you can get one you can put the top down on!!!

[Vombomb]

Keep in mind that while you can do some upgrades to the Gen IV now, you're still going to be around 600-650rwhp due to the cam. Gen III's, well the sky is the limit... The only real question you need to ask is are you happy with not doing many performance mods, or do you want to mod the hell out of the car?

Plain and simple the Gen IV is a smoother car, the tranny alone is beautiful. The fly by wire lag can be fixed with a tune.

The Gen III is much more raw, the tranny isn't as refined, the power delivery is further down the RPM range and doesn't pull as hard at the top like the Gen IV stock, but you have soooooo many options in performance mods, and a custom cam will really wake the car up.

[Steve M]

Gen 3/4/5 use the same brake calipers and overall rotor size. They aren't weak by any stretch of the imagination.

Gen 4/5 use essentially the same engine - the Gen 5 switched back to forged pistons, uses a slightly larger intake lobe on the cam, has a composite intake manifold, and has some revised cooling passages. Other than that, mostly the same. A Gen 4 car with the proper bolt-ons will put down 600+ RWHP...if you want to see the progression of one being built up, look no further than here:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/4157-What-to-replace-a-Viper-with-EJOL-Evil-Jack-o-lantern-Build-thread

His ended up around 620 at the wheels with just basic stuff, and he still has cats. A Gen 4/5 with bolt-ons is no joke...they are pretty quick stock too. A simple tune will wake a Gen 4 up, and contrary to popular belief, they are NOT hard to tune. Expensive, yes, but not hard.

With a Gen 3, you'll need to do more than just basic bolt-ons to catch up to a bolt-on Gen 4. So how much modding do you want to do? A 620 RWHP Gen 4 Viper will drive just like stock...no cam surge, nothing. A Gen 3 can be made just as fast, but I can't comment on the driveability portion since I've never owned or driven one.

[aspman]

PM me on my 08 vert.Its blue and one of 2 Aero vert from factory....2600 miles.....beautiful car ,bone stock.....think gen5 .

[SlateEd]

brakes have been covered above, no difference.

hood you can get a CF GenIV hood and paint, many have.

tires are going to be replaced on any Gen viper you buy if they are older than 4-5 years old anyway.. commit yourself to that before buying either generation and you'll save your insurance company a lot of paperwork. (yes, the OE GenIII tires were horrible, but you're way past keeping them anyway)... join VOA when you make your purchase you'll get great deals on tires. #shamelessplug

the heat issue you mentioned, the Gen III stock was HOT inside the cabin in July/August BUT all cat-back exhaust kits for GenIII get rid of the crossover piping which created most of the toaster-oven effect. So if you get one with Corsa etc, on it, or you plan to change the exhaust anyway then that's a wash between the Gens.

here's an odd-ball question - how often do you get stuck in traffic? The GenIII clutch is a B#%&H after an hour of stop-and-go. that's just a reality around NYC, not sure if that matters to you at all, but near Chicago I figured it might. As I understand it the GenIV clutch is lighter. I know the GenV clutch is a lot lighter I was blown away the first time I sat in one.

the price is definitely something to think about.. and that gap seems smaller in the coupes than the convertibles so you've got to decide which roof you want and examine the market prices based on that.

I would really recommend you find a GenIII someplace that you can test drive and see if it doesn't feel extreme enough for you. The whole experience is going to be so different from a 625hp Cobra that I don't think you can equate it just on the numbers.

[Vombomb]

I CAN comment on drive ability with a cammed viper, and unless you go crazy on the lift and duration, it will drive just fine. And we're talking a cam that with heads/headers will put you at 600-650rwhp.

[PaulP]

The Gen III is much more raw, the tranny isn't as refined, the power delivery is further down the RPM range and doesn't pull as hard at the top like the Gen IV stock, but you have soooooo many options in performance mods, and a custom cam will really wake the car up.

My gen 3 pulls like hell up top! lol

[Vombomb]

My gen 3 pulls like hell up top! lol

Lol, the Gen IV seems to pull a lot harder, maybe it's just the smoothness of the cam.

[slovenom]

Not experience with neither but I will go with the gen IV

[Resident Alien]

Since you are in the Chicago area, I'll let you test drive my gen 3 if you'd like. Has intake/hf cats/cat back exhaust/tune/3.55 gears. PM me if interested.

[Steve M]

I CAN comment on drive ability with a cammed viper, and unless you go crazy on the lift and duration, it will drive just fine. And we're talking a cam that with heads/headers will put you at 600-650rwhp.

That's the case on any car really...as long as you pick the right parts for your application, you'll be fine. Stick a donkey dick cam in there, and you'll end up sacrificing driveability for power. It's a point worth mentioning regardless...I watched a lot of LSx guys end up hating their cars when they stuck too big of a cam in their cars. A Viper is no different.

[serpent]

I just did a quick search on Gen III coupes and there are quite a few for under 50k. The difference here is Gen IV's are still highly priced for 70k.
I'd look into a Gen III coupe, with modded exhaust (cabin isnt so hot), gen IV hood and just buy newer tires after signing up for VOA membership.

[Steve M]

I just did a quick search on Gen III coupes and there are quite a few for under 50k. The difference here is Gen IV's are still highly priced for 70k.
I'd look into a Gen III coupe, with modded exhaust (cabin isnt so hot), gen IV hood and just buy newer tires after signing up for VOA membership.

They may be listed for $70k, but they probably won't sell for it. Now isn't the best time for a buyer...wait until it gets cold, and you'll see more options pop up at more reasonable prices.

[The Stig]

voodoo addition for sale in Ontario Canada 80gs take advantage of the dollar exchange.. might be a idea

[Vombomb]

That's the case on any car really...as long as you pick the right parts for your application, you'll be fine. Stick a donkey dick cam in there, and you'll end up sacrificing driveability for power. It's a point worth mentioning regardless...I watched a lot of LSx guys end up hating their cars when they stuck too big of a cam in their cars. A Viper is no different.

No but the size of the engine will support a bigger cam in relation to a V8, and still be drive able. A cam putting out 650rwhp in a viper is a hell of a lot easier to drive than a v8 putting down the same power. But that's getting off topic, the point is, for a Gen III to match a bolt on Gen IV, in power, you won't sacrifice drive ability.

[Steve M]

No but the size of the engine will support a bigger cam in relation to a V8, and still be drive able. A cam putting out 650rwhp in a viper is a hell of a lot easier to drive than a v8 putting down the same power. But that's getting off topic, the point is, for a Gen III to match a bolt on Gen IV, in power, you won't sacrifice drive ability.

True, but my point is that you'll have to do more invasive mods to get there, and not everyone is up for modding to that extent. That's what drove me to a Gen 4 vs. a Gen 3...my $0.02, probably worth less.

[Vprbite]

Keep in mind that while you can do some upgrades to the Gen IV now, you're still going to be around 600-650rwhp due to the cam. Gen III's, well the sky is the limit... The only real question you need to ask is are you happy with not doing many performance mods, or do you want to mod the hell out of the car?

Plain and simple the Gen IV is a smoother car, the tranny alone is beautiful. The fly by wire lag can be fixed with a tune.

The Gen III is much more raw, the tranny isn't as refined, the power delivery is further down the RPM range and doesn't pull as hard at the top like the Gen IV stock, but you have soooooo many options in performance mods, and a custom cam will really wake the car up.

Listen to this guy. He knows what he is talking about. He is on his first viper which he has barely had weather to drive and it needs quotes around the word "coupe" but he is definitely an expert on the subject about the difference between gen 3 and 4s. This guy knows what's up for sure.

[viper_eddie]

What's your budget? I just saw this thread in addition to the other you have. With a bit of patience, you can find a Gen 4 in the low 50s.

[Bmw2nv2000]

Ive had 3 different gen 4's with the Mopar Venom controller and I can assure you it does not even come close to eliminating the drive by wire lag. I believe it helps it a little over the stock controller but no where near eliminates it. Want to know for sure drive a gen 4 with a venom controller then step right in to a stock gen 3 and feel the huge diff between cable throttle and drive by wire throttle.
Don't miss understand me I do love the drive of my gen 4's over my gen 3 cars but Im always a little sad with the drive by wire feel.

[Vprbite]

Ive had 3 different gen 4's with the Mopar Venom controller and I can assure you it does not even come close to eliminating the drive by wire lag. I believe it helps it a little over the stock controller but no where near eliminates it. Want to know for sure drive a gen 4 with a venom controller then step right in to a stock gen 3 and feel the huge diff between cable throttle and drive by wire throttle.
Don't miss understand me I do love the drive of my gen 4's over my gen 3 cars but Im always a little sad with the drive by wire feel.

^^^^this^^^^

I have heard this repeated so many times by owners. No, it's not enough to make them regret their gen IV or hate it, but damned if they don't miss that throttle cable. I gotta tell ya, I love the immediacy of the throttle cable. And as I understand it, the throttle lag can be made better, but it will always be there. I even heard that people when they firstmgotminto their gen IVs when they were originally released would stall them because of the throttle lag.

[G37Sam]

I definitely miss the instantaneous throttle cable response on my previous car. I've stalled/jerked my Gen V a few times because it wouldn't respond to my blips.

If a cable throttle kit ever comes out for these Gen V's I'd be all over it it. To hell with cruise and traction control.

[Nine Ball]

If your goal is just bolt-on modifications, I'd spend the extra and get the Gen 4. Easy car to achieve 600 rwhp with, and the TR6060 transmission is a good upgrade. Now that custom tuning is available for the Gen 4, it makes them more desirable than before.

If your goal is 800-1000 rwhp type stuff, then the Gen 3 is a more economical path forward. With either of these gens, you'll have to rebuild the engine with forged pistons and rods to safely go above 700-750 rwhp. So, figure $10-15K in costs there to upgrade either car. If that is the case, I'd rather start with the car that is $15K cheaper. The stock Gen 3 computer is also easier to tune, especially for boost. I was making nearly 1,300 rwhp in my Gen 3 - with the factory computer and just SCT tuning software. With a Gen 4, you'll be shelling out another $5-6K for an aftermarket engine management system to achieve those results.

Throttle by wire and lag is a non-issue. Yes, the Gen 2-3 cars have more instant throttle response, but I've got no complaints with my Gen 5 car. I simply learned how to drive around that lag.

[Steve M]

^^^^this^^^^

I have heard this repeated so many times by owners. No, it's not enough to make them regret their gen IV or hate it, but damned if they don't miss that throttle cable. I gotta tell ya, I love the immediacy of the throttle cable. And as I understand it, the throttle lag can be made better, but it will always be there. I even heard that people when they firstmgotminto their gen IVs when they were originally released would stall them because of the throttle lag.

The lag can be driven around to an extent, but yes, it is not ideal.

The issue is known, however, and contrary to some misinformation that has been posted around here (related to the Arrow PCM), it has nothing to do with "airflow rationale" checks in the PCM (those can be disabled with HPTuners). The issue is that the driver demand torque and calculated actual torque must be within about 120 N-m of each other...if they are not, the car will go into limp mode. I can change the driver demand torque all day long (has a direct impact on throttle lag), but when you do that, you create a discrepancy between that and the calculated actual torque table, and unfortunately, the calculated actual torque table is in a protected area of the PCM that HPT has not been able to get around yet. The HPTuners guys have run into this with the other Dodge controllers (NGC and GPEC), but they've been able to work around it on those...the Viper uses a unique PCM with unique code, so the table isn't currently accessible. The unique code is also why it costs more to tune and can be a bit of a PITA at times.

In this game, you have to be patient...they are working on the issue, but reverse engineering source code that they don't have access to isn't easy, and it is extremely time consuming. I'm thankful they've gotten this far though...the software lets you really wake these cars up, minus the throttle lag part. The guys at HPT are very good at what they do, but they've got about a million projects going on in parallel, and most of those pay the bills far better than supporting Gen 4/5 Viper tuning, which is comparatively a very small market. The only reason Gen 4/5 Viper tuning was ever supported in the first place was because the owner of HPTuners has a Gen 3 with a Gen 4 motor/PCM combo, so he had a personal interest in figuring it out - so far, they are the only ones.

[MtnBiker]

I'm selling my 2010 coupe. It already has the forged internals. I've never had it on a dyno, but based on other folks cars is making close to if not over 600 at the wheels. It's simply the best Viper on the planet!

[Ninjazx71]

Thanks everyone for the helpful info, and please keep it coming. One of my main concerns was the heat inside, which I'm glad to hear that's addressed in the Gen3 with just an aftermarket exhaust. I'm sure I could learn to deal with the throttle lag, like any other car I assume it's just a matter of feeling it out for a bit. When switching between flywheels, clutches and firewall assemblies on my last car it was like re-learning how to drive the same car a number of times.

As much as I'd like to say that I won't go crazy on the mods, I always say that and it ends up being a lie. LOL! Still though, I don't think I'd go as crazy with mod'ing the Viper like I have on previous vehicles since it really doesn't take too many bolt-ons to get to where I'd like to be.

My mind is telling me to shell out the extra $$$ on a Gen4 and be happy with the thing as-is, but my pocketbook is telling me to go with a Gen3 and save some money. I'm thinking my decision may end up coming down to finding a Gen3 with some nice extras already done for a good price, or stumbling upon a Gen4 that is being offered at an incredible price.

[Steve M]

If you can come up with the cash, MtnBiker's car would be ideal...the motor is forged, and he already has the bolt-ons you'd need to get the power you want. Add a simple, bolt-on Gen 5 intake manifold (~$1,000-ish) and you'd have 20+ more. No need for tuning either.

[Vipes]

I drove a gen IV and I just couldn't get used to the drive by wire but if it doesn't bother you I would say go with the IV. There have been some pretty sweet deals on them lately. I went with a gen 3 for the throttle response and dropped in a couple mods to bring the power up to quite a bit more than a gen V. I spent less than the difference between the two gens (3/4) and my car drives like stock but pulls like a beast. The only other thing I'd like to do is pick up a gen IV hood someday.

[Roddy]

Gen III. Better deals, and with the 10-15K I saved vs a Gen IV leaves plenty for a heads and cam package that will make 640rwhp. Sky is the limit with the Gen III as mentioned. I didn't like the drive by wire on the Gen IV and also my Gen III with just basic bolt ons never ceases to thrill, and pulls very hard up top.

[Steve M]

I drove a gen IV and I just couldn't get used to the drive by wire but if it doesn't bother you I would say go with the IV. There have been some pretty sweet deals on them lately. I went with a gen 3 for the throttle response and dropped in a couple mods to bring the power up to quite a bit more than a gen V. I spent less than the difference between the two gens (3/4) and my car drives like stock but pulls like a beast. The only other thing I'd like to do is pick up a gen IV hood someday.

Just out of curiosity, what mods did you go with? Bringing power from 510 HP to more than 640 is nothing to sneeze at...

[Vprbite]

Also, people talk about the 600 hp in a gen IV over what's in a gen III, but don't forget that most of us can't out drive a stock gen III hp. A trip to the track is an eye opening experience. I'm the first to admit there is fun in having bragging rights and being the highest hp on the street, but I wouldn't go in thinking you are gonna have an anemic experience with a gen III vs a IV.

Before I bought my gen III I was almost not willing to listen to people who told me save the cash and go with an 06 coupe, and that I will be just as happy but with 20 grand in my pocket but no, I wasn't hearing it, it was gonna be Gen IV or nothing, dammnit. But after hearing some good arguments for it, I did go with a Gen III and I am glad I did. Save some cash that can be used for mods or just other things in life. Or set the money aside, drive the car,then mod a bit, then drive the car, see if you still want to mod, if so then do it. Unless you are a horsepower junky, you may find yourself pretty happy with your first round of mods. I did full exhaust to my 06 coupe and think that now I will not bother to do gears cause I feel I have plenty of power for the current gears and will put that money toward ported polished heads which the gen III eats up.

My guess is you will be happy with either. Think of them as different, not necessarily better or worse than one another, and see what fits you. The drive by wire thing is something that the throttle cable guys hate but people who had never had a viper before dont think anything of it because they don't know any better. Or, find a good gen III, put heads and exhaust on it and there is every bit of gen IV power and then some but with great throttle response.

I would almost base my decision on finding a good car (good previous owners, ideally people known on here so the car can be vouched for) and fitting your mileage/color/budget requirements and then just let myself be happy with that, whatever Gen it is. Stock gen III power is more than enough for any tracking you want to do or for handing anyone their ass on the street except for the GTR and 400 grand guys (and the mod monsters out there) and like I said, gen IV power is not that far away.

Good luck with your search. You really can't make a poor choice in this case.

[Viper Specialty]

If you want my honest opinion, depending on the price difference of the car and your intended usage, you are almost better off going with a modified Gen-3. For about the price of a Gen-4, I can put together a VS-X700 [725HP] Gen-3 with a Swing-arm Oil Pan, TR6060 transmission, Wavetrac diff, and even a Gen-4 hood. The end result is a car that looks near identical to a Gen-4 [even under the hood!], has 100+ horsepower more than a Gen-4, has the same drivetrain as a Gen-4, no throttle lag, can still pass emissions, better fan module, and can be easily boosted... for the same price as a nice actual Gen-4. Its almost a no-brainer.

Where the Gen-4 shines is for those who do not want to modify their car, and for those who want the ultimate in bells and whistles with bottomless pockets to do it. The Gen-3 still better fills the middle-range of builds.

[commandomatt]

Yesterday I took my 2010 ACR out for the first short drive of the year. It has a complete Belanger system and a Mopar PCM. Car drives incredibly well. Awesome sound and everything is smooth and predictable....as predictable as a Viper can get I guess. It pulls very well and it's stuck on the road like glue. Power, brakes, shifting, handling.....its just a great car. Did some spirited driving in some twisty mountain roads and find myself putting the pedal to the metal several times. Sure it moves out and has a great exhaust note. This is like the super model, perfect woman that you want to be married to.

So then today, I take my 2006 Coupe out. Motons, Eibach, Corsas and a Paxton blower. Go for the same drive and it's a different experience. This is definitely more raw and responsive. Yes, I know it should be, considering the blower but this car is like a go cart on steroids. It has so much power and the few times I have room to punch it, its sounds like a P51 Mustang on a dive. Much more responsive (yes, big difference with throttle response) and its just a kick in the ass to drive. Then get off the throttle, put it in 4th or 5th and its mellow and smooth. This is the mistress that will do things that the 'wife' above will never consider doing......and Yes....the car does scare me a bit....and I love it

So to me they are definitely two different cars in the way they feel. I am no track guy and most likely never will be but I just enjoy these cars on twisty Rocky Mountain two lane roads. The 10 is much more civilized and the 06 is an animal the way its set up. I don't ever use these for daily driving. I don't care for comfort and electronic features. That's not what a Viper is for me

I would not want to part with either but if the 10 was not an ACR (this is definitely the ultimate visually) but a Coupe, both cars were set up like they are now, then it would be easy to choose between the two......06 all the way

That's my take

[ACRucrazy]

I can put together a VS-X700 [725HP] Gen-3 with a Swing-arm Oil Pan, TR6060 transmission, Wavetrac diff, and even a Gen-4 hood. The end result is a car that looks near identical to a Gen-4 [even under the hood!], has 100+ horsepower more than a Gen-4, has the same drivetrain as a Gen-4, no throttle lag, can still pass emissions, better fan module, and can be easily boosted... for the same price as a nice actual Gen-4. Its almost a no-brainer.

What is the cost to do such a build? The only reason I am asking because in the last year I have seen Gen III prices go up a bit and regular Gen IV prices come down close to a comparable III.

[Ninjazx71]

Thanks again everyone for all the input, it's much appreciated. Glad to hear that some of my concerns with the Gen3's aren't really much of a concern. Pretty sure I'm leaning more towards an '06 Coupe vs. an '08 and save the extra $$$ for some mods. Now to find the right one at the right price... :-)

[ViperDog]

Do change out the diff if it is stock in a G3 to a Quaife or Wavetrac.

[ACRucrazy]

Thanks again everyone for all the input, it's much appreciated. Glad to hear that some of my concerns with the Gen3's aren't really much of a concern. Pretty sure I'm leaning more towards an '06 Coupe vs. an '08 and save the extra $$$ for some mods. Now to find the right one at the right price... :-)

2006 coupes still command pretty good prices from what I see, just about every one is over 50k. Not a whole lot to be saved vs a similar mile 08 Coupe IMO. If your goal is much more than 600whp, a used Gen III with a Paxton alread installed isn't a bad option.

[Ninjazx71]

2006 coupes still command pretty good prices from what I see, just about every one is over 50k. Not a whole lot to be saved vs a similar mile 08 Coupe IMO. If your goal is much more than 600whp, a used Gen III with a Paxton alread installed isn't a bad option.

'08's look to be mid 60's from what I've been seeing. At least that's what they are listed for, not sure what they are actually selling for though. I've found a number of '06 coupes listed for $53k or so. So talking at least $10k to go between an '06 and '08. If you've got leads on an '08 that's priced really well, PM me! ;-)

[serpent]

Keep searching, last year in Alley there was an 08 coupe blue/white stripes that sold for 42k, although it did have 73k miles.

It was timnineside's, for some reason I thought his name spelled out as tim-inny-side. After looking at the for sale ad it was around october so I guess fall-winter is the best time to look. Its getting hotter and closer to summer so prices are bound to increase.

[ACRucrazy]

08 for $55k

http://m.ebay.com/itm/131475373964?nav=SEARCH

[ACRucrazy]

$59.9
http://driveviper.com/classifieds/gen-iv/p764-2009-voi10-only-2500-miles.html

[Vipes]

Just out of curiosity, what mods did you go with? Bringing power from 510 HP to more than 640 is nothing to sneeze at...

I just had my stock heads and manifold ported along with upgraded values, mild street cam, BBK throttle body, tune and a full exhaust. This gave me about 70 hp more than a stock gen 5 by literally just adding those handful of aftermarket parts and leaving the rest of the car stock/oem. The car is a blast to drive and sounds nasty... https://youtu.be/kpy9SDeYK6U

[Steve M]

I just had my stock heads and manifold ported along with upgraded values, mild street cam, BBK throttle body, tune and a full exhaust. This gave me about 70 hp more than a stock gen 5 by literally just adding those handful of aftermarket parts and leaving the rest of the car stock/oem. The car is a blast to drive and sounds nasty... https://youtu.be/kpy9SDeYK6U

Very cool...sounds great!

[Ninjazx71]

08 for $55k

http://m.ebay.com/itm/131475373964?nav=SEARCH

Wow! Didn't see that one yesterday when searching around. Gotta look into that one ASAP.

[Stealth78]

Always remember... If a deal seems to good to be true there is probably a reason. Not trying to be pessimistic but for example if you have two cars that look identical and have the same mileage and one is selling for $55K and the other is selling for $65K make sure you ask yourself why. Make sure you inspect your purchase-to-be very thoroughly! Good Luck!

P.S. I love my 06 coupe!

[viper_eddie]

It's interesting to see so many people complain about the drive by wire. My first Viper was a Gen 4 so I guess I just got used to it or maybe it just never bothered me. Now that I have a Gen 2, I'm curious to see if I'll notice it getting back into a Gen 4 or 5.

OP: There are a lot of Gen 4s in the 60s that have been for sale for a long time. Unless it's a special edition, that's just too much. Narrow your search to about 5 cars, make offers and see where it goes. Just make sure you have it inspected prior to paying.

[Ninjazx71]

Always remember... If a deal seems to good to be true there is probably a reason. Not trying to be pessimistic but for example if you have two cars that look identical and have the same mileage and one is selling for $55K and the other is selling for $65K make sure you ask yourself why. Make sure you inspect your purchase-to-be very thoroughly! Good Luck!

P.S. I love my 06 coupe!

Yup... absolutely. Have a buddy that lives 20min from where this car is located so would have him check it out before doing anything. Definitely agree... wondering why it's $10k lower than most others.

Anyone able to run a Carfax for me by chance?

[98intrigue]

Other than the stick on stainless steel crap all over the car (driver's side exhaust hole only, side sills, seats, door speakers, and engine bay) and the intake, it looks to have aftermarket headers as well. Can't tell if the exhaust is OEM or aftermarket. Who knows...it might have the Mopar PCM as well. Interior looks good and don't see any curb rash on the wheels. Might be a good buy. The ad states it has a clean carfax, so I'd contact them for a copy.

[Ninjazx71]

Other than the stick on stainless steel crap all over the car (driver's side exhaust hole only, side sills, seats, door speakers, and engine bay) and the intake, it looks to have aftermarket headers as well. Can't tell if the exhaust is OEM or aftermarket. Who knows...it might have the Mopar PCM as well. Interior looks good and don't see any curb rash on the wheels. Might be a good buy. The ad states it has a clean carfax, so I'd contact them for a copy.

Was thinking the same thing. Have already reached out to them asking for a copy of it. The description only states it has the K&N, but who knows...

[Ninjazx71]

So the Carfax shows up clean without any issues. The vehicle has always been TX/FL titled. Odd thing is that carguru shows the vehicle being listed for over 100 days, which just makes me wonder what's wrong with it... Waiting to hear back from my buddy to see if he can check it out, but will ask around a bit online too.

[Bmw2nv2000]

That car is def a deal! If I didn't have 2 Viper right now I swear that black/red 08 would be mine today. Im betting shes has full exhaust and the mopar venom controller. Dang wish I had that one =-(
Let us know what you find out Ninja

[ACRucrazy]

IMO 10k in a Gen III can get eaten up pretty quick trying to make up for what the Gen IV offers. 6060 trans, clutch rear end & hood to start with the basics. That's not even addressing the 100 rwhp less you start with.

As far as the price on that red and black one, it does have 20k miles+ where many have less than half that. Good price if its clean.

[slowhatch]

I just had my stock heads and manifold ported along with upgraded values, mild street cam, BBK throttle body, tune and a full exhaust. This gave me about 70 hp more than a stock gen 5 by literally just adding those handful of aftermarket parts and leaving the rest of the car stock/oem. The car is a blast to drive and sounds nasty... https://youtu.be/kpy9SDeYK6U

70hp more than a stock gen 5? So you're making over 600whp on ported stock heads/intake with a (I presume) a 708 cam?

[Bmw2nv2000]

I bet he meant stock gen 4

[TonyCool]

If you want my honest opinion, depending on the price difference of the car and your intended usage, you are almost better off going with a modified Gen-3. For about the price of a Gen-4, I can put together a VS-X700 [725HP] Gen-3 with a Swing-arm Oil Pan, TR6060 transmission, Wavetrac diff, and even a Gen-4 hood. The end result is a car that looks near identical to a Gen-4 [even under the hood!], has 100+ horsepower more than a Gen-4, has the same drivetrain as a Gen-4, no throttle lag, can still pass emissions, better fan module, and can be easily boosted... for the same price as a nice actual Gen-4. Its almost a no-brainer.

Where the Gen-4 shines is for those who do not want to modify their car, and for those who want the ultimate in bells and whistles with bottomless pockets to do it. The Gen-3 still better fills the middle-range of builds.

This. If you plan to going coupe and keeping it stock go with a Gen4 ACR anything else go with Gen3.

[Bmw2nv2000]

BTW Vipes your car sounds INSANE!!!!

[Vipes]

70hp more than a stock gen 5? So you're making over 600whp on ported stock heads/intake with a (I presume) a 708 cam?

Yes, stock gen 3 heads ported and built with larger valves, upgraded springs, retainers and slow bleed lifters. The cam is a custom 3634/3635, 232/236, much milder than a 708 cam. The bottom of the heads were milled a little and with thinner head gaskets it bumped the compression up to about 10.5 to 1, which I think is close to what a stock gen 4 compression is but not sure??? I'll post the dyno graph and make a build thread this week. I've just been so busy with work stuff lately.


BTW Vipes your car sounds INSANE!!!!

Thanks!!!

[Roddy]

Yes, stock gen 3 heads ported and built with larger valves, upgraded springs, retainers and slow bleed lifters. The cam is a custom 3634/3635, 232/236, much milder than a 708 cam. The bottom of the heads were milled a little and with thinner head gaskets it bumped the compression up to about 10.5 to 1, which I think is close to what a stock gen 4 compression is but not sure??? I'll post the dyno graph and make a build thread this week. I've just been so busy with work stuff lately.



Thanks!!!

Sounds awesome! Interested to see your build thread!!

[Ninjazx71]

So followed up on the '08 Coupe and it was a pricing mistake at $55k and it's now listed at $58k. Dealer said he would still honor the price though if I wanted it. Hmmm.... Scared of buying stuff sight unseen though, especially something like this, but would also hate to miss out on an incredible deal.

[Roddy]

So followed up on the '08 Coupe and it was a pricing mistake at $55k and it's now listed at $58k. Dealer said he would still honor the price though if I wanted it. Hmmm.... Scared of buying stuff sight unseen though, especially something like this, but would also hate to miss out on an incredible deal.

Id rather buy a Viper from an actual owner, not a curber or a dealer. But thats just me. Maybe you can get it independently inspected... as in have them drop it at a chrysler dealer that has a Viper Tech on staff... Just throwing out the idea.. you may even just want to ask them to do this and you could make and early judgement by how they respond to that idea.

[98intrigue]

So followed up on the '08 Coupe and it was a pricing mistake at $55k and it's now listed at $58k. Dealer said he would still honor the price though if I wanted it. Hmmm.... Scared of buying stuff sight unseen though, especially something like this, but would also hate to miss out on an incredible deal.

Paying someone $150-250 to have the car inspected would be a smart move if you are nervous about buying something site unseen. A $250 inspection and a $250 plane ticket are a lot cheaper mistake than a $55,500 mistake.

[ACRucrazy]

So followed up on the '08 Coupe and it was a pricing mistake at $55k and it's now listed at $58k. Dealer said he would still honor the price though if I wanted it. Hmmm.... Scared of buying stuff sight unseen though, especially something like this, but would also hate to miss out on an incredible deal.

I am sure this thread generated some more interest and he saw that on eBay, adjusted the price accordingly. It's nice hes offering to honor the original price to you when you called. Good luck! Take all that chrome crap off and you will have a nice car! I actually dig the red interior on that one.

[Steve M]

So followed up on the '08 Coupe and it was a pricing mistake at $55k and it's now listed at $58k. Dealer said he would still honor the price though if I wanted it. Hmmm.... Scared of buying stuff sight unseen though, especially something like this, but would also hate to miss out on an incredible deal.

At the very least, an emblem will need replaced, and that paint looks like it'll need some serious correcting. Given the mileage and the questionable (read: tacky) mods, the highest I'd go would be $55k, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable even with that amount. That intake would also need to go...that style system on a Gen 4/5 has been known to not perform.

FWIW, I bought my '08 coupe with 9,500 miles on it for around $58k about 3 years ago. There are deals out there, but you'll have to be patient.

[Ninjazx71]

At the very least, an emblem will need replaced, and that paint looks like it'll need some serious correcting.

Can you be more specific on what points you're talking about in the paint and emblem? Mainly for my educational purposes so I know what to look for a bit more on these cars as I'm looking around. Thanks!

[Bmw2nv2000]

At the very least, an emblem will need replaced, and that paint looks like it'll need some serious correcting. Given the mileage and the questionable (read: tacky) mods, the highest I'd go would be $55k, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable even with that amount. That intake would also need to go...that style system on a Gen 4/5 has been known to not perform.

FWIW, I bought my '08 coupe with 9,500 miles on it for around $58k about 3 years ago. There are deals out there, but you'll have to be patient.

In complete fairness to the car in question gen 4's have bounced back up in value in the past 3 years. And 3 years ago the venom red was absolutely the lowest selling color Gen 4. Not meaning any disrespect to venom red, its still one of my favorite cars ive owned and will buy another vr someday.

[serpent]

The car is a blast to drive and sounds nasty... https://youtu.be/kpy9SDeYK6U
Wow, that Viper sounds fucking beast!!!

[MtnBiker]

Can you be more specific on what points you're talking about in the paint and emblem? Mainly for my educational purposes so I know what to look for a bit more on these cars as I'm looking around. Thanks!

Full of swirl marks.

[Steve M]

Can you be more specific on what points you're talking about in the paint and emblem? Mainly for my educational purposes so I know what to look for a bit more on these cars as I'm looking around. Thanks!

Just based on the photos, there were pretty evident swirls/holograms/etc. in the black paint that indicate improper washing techniques were used. Not a deal breaker, but it would take a machine polisher and some elbow grease to get the paint to be shiny like it should be. Black is always a pain - it shows EVERYTHING.

As for the emblem, it was something I noticed in one of the passenger side photos - the S in the SRT-10 emblem on the passenger side appeared to be missing a chunk. Shouldn't be a big deal to replace, but it is something that should be replaced unless you like the busted look.

[Steve M]

In complete fairness to the car in question gen 4's have bounced back up in value in the past 3 years. And 3 years ago the venom red was absolutely the lowest selling color Gen 4. Not meaning any disrespect to venom red, its still one of my favorite cars ive owned and will buy another vr someday.

Eh, sort of...IMO, Gen 4 values took a big hit when the Gen 5 price reduction hit. When I was shopping around, venom red cars did seem to bring in less money for whatever reason, but I used that to my advantage...it wasn't even the most common color if I'm not mistaken (I think that honor went to black in 2008), so maybe people just didn't like it? It doesn't photograph well, that's for sure...who knows.

[Ninjazx71]

Eh, sort of...IMO, Gen 4 values took a big hit when the Gen 5 price reduction hit. When I was shopping around, venom red cars did seem to bring in less money for whatever reason, but I used that to my advantage...it wasn't even the most common color if I'm not mistaken (I think that honor went to black in 2008), so maybe people just didn't like it? It doesn't photograph well, that's for sure...who knows.

Thanks man, appreciate the details. I missed the emblem missing a chunk on the passenger side. I did notice the chrome trim piece around the exhaust is missing on the passenger side too. So that now has me wondering if there was actually damage to that side and it was fixed or something. Definitely not sounding as "pristine" as the owner is trying to make it sound... not that he's a sales guy or anything. LOL!

[98intrigue]

Thanks man, appreciate the details. I missed the emblem missing a chunk on the passenger side. I did notice the chrome trim piece around the exhaust is missing on the passenger side too. So that now has me wondering if there was actually damage to that side and it was fixed or something. Definitely not sounding as "pristine" as the owner is trying to make it sound... not that he's a sales guy or anything. LOL!
Those are literally stick on pieces... I would not think that a missing "sticker" is a deal breaker. The emblem is missing a chunk...once again, not a big deal. It could have been ripped off by having a microfiber wash mitt's fibers getting stuck behind the piece and the washer briskly moving the mitt when it was stuck. Black is a bitch, no questions about it.

My former black coupe was in similar condition when I bought it. Part of the "S" was missing on the side emblem and the car was covered in swirls. I replaced the emblems with new ones and had my car wet sanded. The painted looked as good as new afterwards. As mentioned before, it looks like this car has headers because I do not see heat shields in place. That would be a $2000-3000 modification right there. The intake is a wash since it's been proven to not make anymore power than stock. I still think if the car checks out by an independent inspector, it's a good deal.

[ACRucrazy]

Thanks man, appreciate the details. I missed the emblem missing a chunk on the passenger side. I did notice the chrome trim piece around the exhaust is missing on the passenger side too. So that now has me wondering if there was actually damage to that side and it was fixed or something. Definitely not sounding as "pristine" as the owner is trying to make it sound... not that he's a sales guy or anything. LOL!

All the chrome pieces were added by the previous owner, they are not factory. They should be removed anyways. Regardless if the paint is just has some swirl marks and the car is "clean" with no history, $55k for a 20k mile Gen IV coupe doesnt seem like a bad price to me. Nothing a little elbow grease can't bring back most of that black beauty.

[slowhatch]

Those are literally stick on pieces... I would not think that a missing "sticker" is a deal breaker. The emblem is missing a chunk...once again, not a big deal. It could have been ripped off by having a microfiber wash mitt's fibers getting stuck behind the piece and the washer briskly moving the mitt when it was stuck. Black is a bitch, no questions about it.

My former black coupe was in similar condition when I bought it. Part of the "S" was missing on the side emblem and the car was covered in swirls. I replaced the emblems with new ones and had my car wet sanded. The painted looked as good as new afterwards. As mentioned before, it looks like this car has headers because I do not see heat shields in place. That would be a $2000-3000 modification right there. The intake is a wash since it's been proven to not make anymore power than stock. I still think if the car checks out by an independent inspector, it's a good deal.

Exactly, if there's no stories, everything thats a 'minus' on that car will be gone once a set of caring hands takes possession.

That's a very solid price.

[Victxv10]

2009, 13K miles, $59K
http://www.victorybuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/used-2009-Dodge-Viper-2dr_Cpe_SRT10-Victoria-TX/2466500813

It's local to me if you want it checked out..for free, no charge to you. I've driven by, just haven't stopped in. Factory 6 Spoke Wheels Powder Coated Black, Stoptech ACR Rotors, Mopar Performance Controller, Belanger Headers and Exhaust.

[Steve M]

2009, 13K miles, $59K
http://www.victorybuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/used-2009-Dodge-Viper-2dr_Cpe_SRT10-Victoria-TX/2466500813

It's local to me if you want it checked out..for free, no charge to you. I've driven by, just haven't stopped in. Factory 6 Spoke Wheels Powder Coated Black, Stoptech ACR Rotors, Mopar Performance Controller, Belanger Headers and Exhaust.

Solid mods, and a solid deal IMO, depending on how the OP feels about yellow.

[Ninjazx71]

2009, 13K miles, $59K
http://www.victorybuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/used-2009-Dodge-Viper-2dr_Cpe_SRT10-Victoria-TX/2466500813

It's local to me if you want it checked out..for free, no charge to you. I've driven by, just haven't stopped in. Factory 6 Spoke Wheels Powder Coated Black, Stoptech ACR Rotors, Mopar Performance Controller, Belanger Headers and Exhaust.

Wow... basically the exact setup I would want to get to! Any idea if the exhaust is cat'd or straights? Assuming cats still there, but want to be sure. The yellow could certainly grow on me and the black wheels definitely make the look.

[viper_eddie]

There was a similar car up for sale in Texas at a Mercedes dealer a few months back; it had an accident reported on the Carfax. Make sure you check that if you'll look at this one. Otherwise, it's pretty clean. See if you can get it for 55k, that would be a good deal.

[Ninjazx71]

There was a similar car up for sale in Texas at a Mercedes dealer a few months back; it had an accident reported on the Carfax. Make sure you check that if you'll look at this one. Otherwise, it's pretty clean. See if you can get it for 55k, that would be a good deal.

Already called dealership and asked them to send me a copy. ;-) Their pics don't do the color justice, that's for sure... Found some better quality ones and it looks much better after seeing them, especially with the black wheels. If things check out on the Carfax I'll definitely try getting them down on price just for good measure.

[Ninjazx71]

So the Carfax checks out for accidents, however it looks like it's failed emissions testing the last 2 attempts in January. Not sure if that would be due to not having cat's on the exhaust or something deeper. Might be why it's such a decent price... Dealer claims the only reason it didn't pass emissions is due to having the aftermarket air filters on it (ROFL!). Says up in Austin County you can't have any type of aftermarket pieces on it. However.... the stock ones are still in the back of the vehicle that I could swap back on if needed.

[Steve M]

Mopar PCM = no pass (because rear O2 sensors are disabled)

This would only be an issue if you need to pass a plug-in OBD-II emissions test.

[98intrigue]

So the Carfax checks out for accidents, however it looks like it's failed emissions testing the last 2 attempts in January. Not sure if that would be due to not having cat's on the exhaust or something deeper. Might be why it's such a decent price... Waiting to hear back from them on if they have any further details on why it didn't pass.

Well, it's definitely not a FL car if it failed emissions since we don't have any here...but I recall you saying this was a TX car as well. If the car does in fact have headers (possibly catless), that would explain why it failed.

[Vprbite]

Mopar PCM = no pass (because rear O2 sensors are disabled)

This would only be an issue if you need to pass a plug-in OBD-II emissions test.

This is a fact. Here in AZ we just plug in any OBD-II cars and if the chekc engine light isn't on, you pass...except in the instance of the Mopar Race Controller. That doesn't thrwo codes but when you plug in to test it reads "not ready." Also, you can't just swap the stock one back in for the test and then swap back out. The stock one needs to be driven for a while before it will read "ready for test." So take this into account if you buy it. It's not a big deal to put the new computer in, just factor that into the price/headache factor.

If those mods are indeed there, that is a huge plus but they didn't come up when I looked at the ad.

And I am usually not a yellow guy but on Vipers it look badass, especially black wheels and lowered and level, no rake. I personally would stripe that bad boy and make it a bumblebee, and add a few (minor, not too much) yellow interior accents. Get the license plate "BEESTNG" and and call it done. But I'm a red guy so take that with a grain of salt.

Good luck.

[Ninjazx71]

Mopar PCM = no pass (because rear O2 sensors are disabled)

This would only be an issue if you need to pass a plug-in OBD-II emissions test.

Doh! Yeah, that might be an issue up here in Illinois then since that's how the testing is done... just plug in the OBD-II cord, read the PCM and check it out that way. Any way around this piece, other than yanking that out each time I needed to do emissions?

[Vprbite]

Those are literally stick on pieces... I would not think that a missing "sticker" is a deal breaker. The emblem is missing a chunk...once again, not a big deal. It could have been ripped off by having a microfiber wash mitt's fibers getting stuck behind the piece and the washer briskly moving the mitt when it was stuck. Black is a bitch, no questions about it.

My former black coupe was in similar condition when I bought it. Part of the "S" was missing on the side emblem and the car was covered in swirls. I replaced the emblems with new ones and had my car wet sanded. The painted looked as good as new afterwards. As mentioned before, it looks like this car has headers because I do not see heat shields in place. That would be a $2000-3000 modification right there. The intake is a wash since it's been proven to not make anymore power than stock. I still think if the car checks out by an independent inspector, it's a good deal.


They are stick on pieces, but what would concern me was does the lack of those little things show a deeper, greater level of neglect or disrespect? As you said, not necessarily. But I would be sure to make sure you get it checked out by a, knowledgable and respected, Viper tech. If it's just cosmetic, remind the seller that those emblems are stupid expensive and knock em down on price. Then take off all the emblems except for the fangs in the front and Viper in the back. Win/win.

[Steve M]

Doh! Yeah, that might be an issue up here in Illinois then since that's how the testing is done... just plug in the OBD-II cord, read the PCM and check it out that way. Any way around this piece, other than yanking that out each time I needed to do emissions?

You'd have to pull the Mopar PCM and replace it with the stock PCM (hopefully that's included), making sure you drive the stock one around through a complete drive cycle so that all OBD-II readiness tests show as complete. I can't find what constitutes a complete drive cycle for the Gen 4, so count on needing to drive around for at least 100 miles or so, maybe more. This can be a difficult proposition, especially with aftermarket cats that are located further downstream. This will be the case with any car that runs a Mopar/Arrow PCM - they are off-road only controllers, and will never pass a plug-in OBD-II emissions test.

[Ninjazx71]

This is a fact. Here in AZ we just plug in any OBD-II cars and if the chekc engine light isn't on, you pass...except in the instance of the Mopar Race Controller. That doesn't thrwo codes but when you plug in to test it reads "not ready." Also, you can't just swap the stock one back in for the test and then swap back out. The stock one needs to be driven for a while before it will read "ready for test." So take this into account if you buy it. It's not a big deal to put the new computer in, just factor that into the price/headache factor.

If those mods are indeed there, that is a huge plus but they didn't come up when I looked at the ad.

And I am usually not a yellow guy but on Vipers it look badass, especially black wheels and lowered and level, no rake. I personally would stripe that bad boy and make it a bumblebee, and add a few (minor, not too much) yellow interior accents. Get the license plate "BEESTNG" and and call it done. But I'm a red guy so take that with a grain of salt.

Good luck.

Yeah, yellow can only work on a few cars IMO and fortunately I think a Viper is one of them. The mods are listed on the sold listing from bjmotors.biz (http://www.bjmotors.biz/2009DodgeViperYellow_0463.html). Looks like the thing only had 150mi on it at that point with everything installed by Roe Racing. Pretty sure these guys at the dealership just don't actually realize the mods that are on there.

Regarding swapping the PCM... we're given quite a bit of notice when you have to go for emissions and even then it's every 2 years. So if I had to swap in a stock PCM and drive around for a little bit, that wouldn't be too bad. But is that even really an option? Plus, I'm assuming there isn't a spare stock PCM laying around in the trunk for me to use, so is it even possible to just get a stock one and plug it back in without another whole programming fiasco, or would the stock one relearn everything it needed during the initial driving for a while?

[Roddy]

I think you better jump on this car, with those mods already on it your are saving thousands from the get go!

[repiV]

Not trying to derail the thread.....lots of great advice from people that know Vipers way better than me but I'll throw my $.02 in for the OP to consider.

I was in the same boat a few months back looking at Vipers and trying to decide what to buy. My ultimate goal is a GenV but just can't justify that $$ right now so my plan was to buy something less expensive, drive it a year or two and trade up for a GenV and that's the plan.

I looked at similar cars to the ones mentioned here and although I think they're nice cars and based on what others are selling for and what I found when I was looking, there are some good deals there. But.....I ended up buying my 2005 about a month ago for $38,500 and I don't feel these cars are worth nearly $20,000 more than what I bought. Granted, mine has 35,000 miles and I am going to put some money in it to get it the way I want it and it needs a few things like tires, full service, Corsa cat back system and 3:55 gears but I'm still gonna be way ahead money wise and won't loose too much on mine when I sell it in a year or so for my GenV.

Just something to think about. I'm not trying to diss any of the cars here you're looking at by any means or throw a wrench in your thinking but there are really nice cars out there for a lot less money.

Good luck in your search and thanks for sharing your journey!! I look forward to seeing pictures of your new car.

[Victxv10]

Not trying to derail the thread.....lots of great advice from people that know Vipers way better than me but I'll throw my $.02 in for the OP to consider.

I was in the same boat a few months back looking at Vipers and trying to decide what to buy. My ultimate goal is a GenV but just can't justify that $$ right now so my plan was to buy something less expensive, drive it a year or two and trade up for a GenV and that's the plan.

I looked at similar cars to the ones mentioned here and although I think they're nice cars and based on what others are selling for and what I found when I was looking, there are some good deals there. But.....I ended up buying my 2005 about a month ago for $38,500 and I don't feel these cars are worth nearly $20,000 more than what I bought. Granted, mine has 35,000 miles and I am going to put some money in it to get it the way I want it and it needs a few things like tires, full service, Corsa cat back system and 3:55 gears but I'm still gonna be way ahead money wise and won't loose too much on mine when I sell it in a year or so for my GenV.

Just something to think about. I'm not trying to diss any of the cars here you're looking at by any means or throw a wrench in your thinking but there are really nice cars out there for a lot less money.

Good luck in your search and thanks for sharing your journey!! I look forward to seeing pictures of your new car.

Coupes get more money than verts and they were not available until 2006.

[Steve M]

Regarding swapping the PCM... we're given quite a bit of notice when you have to go for emissions and even then it's every 2 years. So if I had to swap in a stock PCM and drive around for a little bit, that wouldn't be too bad. But is that even really an option? Plus, I'm assuming there isn't a spare stock PCM laying around in the trunk for me to use, so is it even possible to just get a stock one and plug it back in without another whole programming fiasco, or would the stock one relearn everything it needed during the initial driving for a while?

I'd do some inquiring as to whether or not the stock PCM would be included...if not, you'll need to source one and have it married to your car. You absolutely will NOT pass plug-in emissions otherwise. Most guys that do the Mopar PCM hold on to their stock one, so it might be there, but who knows. I have no idea how much a new PCM would cost + the work that would have to be done at a dealership to program the VIN.

You might (and that's a big might) be able to overwrite it with HPTuners which would take you back to stock, but I'm not sure anyone's tried that with the Mopar PCM (I overwrote my stock computer). Then you'd have to tune it to get back to where you were (more $$$ if you can't do it yourself), but you'd at least be able to leave all of the emissions checks enabled so you could pass a plug-in test.

Welcome to the wonderful world of modding a Gen 4 in a state/county that requires emissions testing.

[repiV]

Coupes get more money than verts and they were not available until 2006.

I know and understand that but for me....it's just me....it's not worth almost an extra $20,000 for what you get. It obviously is for some and that's cool. I'm just offering the OP an opinion from someone who just went through the same thing since his original post is asking about a Gen3 vs. a Gen4.

[Bmw2nv2000]

Ninja if you are gonna buy the yellow one you better get froggy and jump with all those mods and color she will be sold soon. Like I said earlier if I was in the market I would 1 million percent be buying the yellow car even over the cheaper black one. Seriously dude if you drag your feet in the viper world esp if you are looking for the lowest priced ones you will never buy a viper cause they go bye-bye quickly when priced right. Just my .02 from my experience of buying and selling a bunch of vipers

[Ninjazx71]

The ad says SOLD. Did you buy it or someone else grab it?

Which Ad? If you're referring to the bjmotors.biz one that was from a few years ago, but still online and has better pictures, as well as the list of mods. The current listing for it is active though.

[repiV]

Yea I caught that after I posted it sorry.

[Mamba003]

I might sell my hybrid - genIII/IV hybrid. 619 to the wheels. Best of everything. Take s look at my posts and you will see the car and the build.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually you can check other site. Nader is my profile name there.

[Vprbite]

I feel that yellow one is a great buy. With those mods that are done, you are looking at about 5-6 grand in parts and labor. Someone is gonna jump on it and get a great car. It's priced fairly to very fair. Thy aren't giving it away (as they shouldn't) , nor are they asking stupid figures for it. I think they are being fair and hopefully someone realizes that.

Op, a nicely modded Gen III will be like no car you have ever driven. And when people like Viper specialty are saying they prefer it, that means something as he has been in the scene for a while so you should take that into consideration too.

[mjorgensen]

If you use the HPT to over write the tune you will loose the Mopar cal so I would not do that unless you don't plan on going back.


I'd do some inquiring as to whether or not the stock PCM would be included...if not, you'll need to source one and have it married to your car. You absolutely will NOT pass plug-in emissions otherwise. Most guys that do the Mopar PCM hold on to their stock one, so it might be there, but who knows. I have no idea how much a new PCM would cost + the work that would have to be done at a dealership to program the VIN.

You might (and that's a big might) be able to overwrite it with HPTuners which would take you back to stock, but I'm not sure anyone's tried that with the Mopar PCM (I overwrote my stock computer). Then you'd have to tune it to get back to where you were (more $$$ if you can't do it yourself), but you'd at least be able to leave all of the emissions checks enabled so you could pass a plug-in test.

Welcome to the wonderful world of modding a Gen 4 in a state/county that requires emissions testing.

[Steve M]

If you use the HPT to over write the tune you will loose the Mopar cal so I would not do that unless you don't plan on going back.

Correct, but how much does it cost to source a new stock PCM and get it flashed to the car?

[mjorgensen]

Retail for the Gen4 PCM is $1280 (same as Mopar for the most part) and the dealership would charge about an hour to program and install.


Correct, but how much does it cost to source a new stock PCM and get it flashed to the car?

[Ninjazx71]

Retail for the Gen4 PCM is $1280 (same as Mopar for the most part) and the dealership would charge about an hour to program and install.

Hoping the stock PCM is included with the car. Someone is graciously checking it out for me this afternoon and will see the car first hand. I know the dealer said the stock air filters were in the back of the car, so I'm crossing my fingers the PCM is back there too...

[Roddy]

Hoping the stock PCM is included with the car. Someone is graciously checking it out for me this afternoon and will see the car first hand. I know the dealer said the stock air filters were in the back of the car, so I'm crossing my fingers the PCM is back there too...

Highly unlikely its back there, but I hope it is. Have you contacted Jon B (Viper Parts Rack) to see if he can get you a used PCM ? He is great to deal with.

[Steve M]

Hoping the stock PCM is included with the car. Someone is graciously checking it out for me this afternoon and will see the car first hand. I know the dealer said the stock air filters were in the back of the car, so I'm crossing my fingers the PCM is back there too...

Let us know how it goes...the PCM is pretty minor, so I wouldn't let that affect your decision. Hopefully the car is as solid as it looks.

[Ninjazx71]

Highly unlikely its back there, but I hope it is. Have you contacted Jon B (Viper Parts Rack) to see if he can get you a used PCM ? He is great to deal with.

Will know a little later today, but you're right I wouldn't really expect to see it in the back of the car either. Maybe I'll ring up Roe Racing, who did the initial installation of everything, and see if it's sitting on the shelf somewhere around there. LOL!

[Victxv10]

Hoping the stock PCM is included with the car. Someone is graciously checking it out for me this afternoon and will see the car first hand. I know the dealer said the stock air filters were in the back of the car, so I'm crossing my fingers the PCM is back there too...

Sent you pics and issues.

[Steve M]

What were the issues?

[99RT10]

Hoping the stock PCM is included with the car. Someone is graciously checking it out for me this afternoon and will see the car first hand. I know the dealer said the stock air filters were in the back of the car, so I'm crossing my fingers the PCM is back there too...


Here is a question probably for Mark J. Can you buy a used PCM and have it reset to the car you are buying?

[Ninjazx71]

Sent you pics and issues.

You rock Murray, I cannot thank you enough for taking time out of your day to go check this out! Major kudos to you!!!! :dude3:

[99RT10]

You rock Murray, I cannot thank you enough for taking time out of your day to go check this out! Major kudos to you!!!! :dude3:


So, good or bad?


:D

[Ninjazx71]

So the "issues"... nothing so far a complete showstopper, but some things I need to take into consideration.

- There are some minor scuffs and paint chips, along with some road rash on one rim. The vehicle IS 6 years old, so can't NOT expect some things like that.
- Previous owner did screw the front license plate in, which I'd probably prefer not there and would have to repair the screw holes.
- Trunk button needs to be replaced, which apparently is common with '08 - '10's.
- Header bolts are rusted

The only main concern though is the CEL is on. Dealership is going to pull the code tomorrow and we'll see what it shows. A little odd IMO and puts a number of different questions/stories in my head. (is Mopar PCM still there? Is the Mopar PCM screwed up or just needs to be relearned for some reason? More going on?).

So all in all it sounds like a decent car that may or may not have some further issues depending on what code is being thrown. Just all things I need to take into consideration...

-

[serpent]

Note sure how accurate cargurus is, but it says that yellow gen iv was $58.5k back in december.

Those for sale pics really do suck, the viper exchange ones were much better. Not sure black wheels fit that color. Or maybe vipers aren't meant to be yellow, imo.

[Vprbite]

Always remember with Vipers, you absolutely get what you pay for. That's why it helps to buy from trusted dealers and members. Peace of mind is worth an extra couple grand IMO. because it saves you that and more in the long run. Sometimes the short run.

[Steve M]

Of that list, the front license plate physically screwed in place bothers me the most...I'd not run a front plate and risk a ticket before I'd do that to a Viper.

Definitely see if they can pull the codes for the check engine light...it could be something as simple as a loose gas cap (had it happen to me last year).

[J TNT]

Always remember with Vipers, you absolutely get what you pay for. That's why it helps to buy from trusted dealers and members. Peace of mind is worth an extra couple grand IMO. because it saves you that and more in the long run. Sometimes the short run.

Well said !
I've seen where people saved a few thousand and with in months have to replace an engine !!!
And cost more in the long run.

[Victxv10]

Of that list, the front license plate physically screwed in place bothers me the most...I'd not run a front plate and risk a ticket before I'd do that to a Viper.

I think the dealership did it, not the previous owner. The screws that hold on the plate are almost touching the bumper. Any type if highway driving I would think would flex the bracket enough to scratch the paint and there are none. I think they found the bracket in the trunk and screwed it on to put their dealer plates on it for advertising.

My 08 had Belanger headers with 23k miles and I had zero rust on the bolts/flanges. Not sure where that is coming from. The CEL is odd and it could very well be the gas cap.

[Ninjazx71]

My 08 had Belanger headers with 23k miles and I had zero rust on the bolts/flanges. Not sure where that is coming from. The CEL is odd and it could very well be the gas cap.

I was curious about that too... why would those start rusting? Would spraying down the engine to clean it all the time start eventually start doing that over time?

[98intrigue]

Are you looking at the yellow car or black car? I got confused sometime ago...

[Ninjazx71]

Are you looking at the yellow car or black car? I got confused sometime ago...

LOL! I know... sorry, this thread kinda went a bunch of different directions.... :-)

The last sets of info are all related to the Yellow '09 Coupe. The '08 black one I'm still waiting on a buddy to try getting over there this weekend to check it out when he gets back from Orlando... all over the place right now, eh? :-)

[MtnBiker]

Always remember with Vipers, you absolutely get what you pay for. That's why it helps to buy from trusted dealers and members. Peace of mind is worth an extra couple grand IMO. because it saves you that and more in the long run. Sometimes the short run.

^^^^^This^^^^^

[Victxv10]

So the "issues"... nothing so far a complete showstopper, but some things I need to take into consideration.

- There are some minor scuffs and paint chips, along with some road rash on one rim. The vehicle IS 6 years old, so can't NOT expect some things like that.
- Previous owner did screw the front license plate in, which I'd probably prefer not there and would have to repair the screw holes.
- Trunk button needs to be replaced, which apparently is common with '08 - '10's.
- Header bolts are rusted

The only main concern though is the CEL is on. Dealership is going to pull the code tomorrow and we'll see what it shows. A little odd IMO and puts a number of different questions/stories in my head. (is Mopar PCM still there? Is the Mopar PCM screwed up or just needs to be relearned for some reason? More going on?).

So all in all it sounds like a decent car that may or may not have some further issues depending on what code is being thrown. Just all things I need to take into consideration...

-

Dealer called me and told me the code was Low Voltage?? They did have to jump it last night to get it started. They do not have it on a tender and I told them these cars will kill a battery in a week if they are not started and driven some. They are installing a new battery and taking it for a drive and see if it clears the code.

This thread seems to have generated some interst outside of the poeple posting here. They have a another guy calling on the car and salesman said it's odd, they have had the car for a few weeks with no calls and now two in one day. To the OP, I'd say you better narrow your choices down quick as it is a pretty fair deal at their asking price. Good luck!

[Ninjazx71]

So I think I'm gonna pass on the Yellow '09 Coupe at this point. Just still too many questions on it and the whole Mopar/Stock PCM is just another thing I'd have to work through when just having a "new" car that I want to play with.

The Black '08 I'm still going to have my buddy check out tomorrow (hopefully) and depending on how that one turns out, I might take that route.

Still not 100% sold on either Gen3 or Gen4 though and I think it might just come down to finding the right car at the right time. Don't think I'll be upset in either case, that's for sure!

[98intrigue]

I love this color combo - I'd put a different set of wheels on it and remove the Gen 2 badges on the sides, but other than that it looks like a clean car http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-SRT10-/261863991891?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3cf84f6a53&item=261863991891

[Roddy]

So I think I'm gonna pass on the Yellow '09 Coupe at this point. Just still too many questions on it and the whole Mopar/Stock PCM is just another thing I'd have to work through when just having a "new" car that I want to play with.

The Black '08 I'm still going to have my buddy check out tomorrow (hopefully) and depending on how that one turns out, I might take that route.

Still not 100% sold on either Gen3 or Gen4 though and I think it might just come down to finding the right car at the right time. Don't think I'll be upset in either case, that's for sure!

I think with any used car you have to be prepared for a few surprises, and be aware that you may not get full disclosure from a seller on what the car may or may not need. I don't think any of the above would have stopped me from buying, but like you said it comes down to the right car at the right time.

[repiV]

Here's another one from a very reputable dealer since you like black. You can use it for comparison shopping if nothing else.

Looks nice.

http://www.motorcarsusa.com/Details/N0209/2006-dodge-viper-srt-10-convertible

[Bmw2nv2000]

I think with any used car you have to be prepared for a few surprises, and be aware that you may not get full disclosure from a seller on what the car may or may not need. I don't think any of the above would have stopped me from buying, but like you said it comes down to the right car at the right time.

Agreed if I was in market the yellow car would be sold already. Unless you are buying brand new you can nick pick a used car and find negatives all day long. Drag your feet and think about it too long and you will never own a viper. My prediction in 3 weeks Ninja still hasn't bought a car and this thread slowly dies. Now Ninja prove me wrong and go buy a bad ass viper ;-)

[Ninjazx71]

Agreed if I was in market the yellow car would be sold already. Unless you are buying brand new you can nick pick a used car and find negatives all day long. Drag your feet and think about it too long and you will never own a viper. My prediction in 3 weeks Ninja still hasn't bought a car and this thread slowly dies. Now Ninja prove me wrong and go buy a bad ass viper ;-)
Wow... nothing like a little pressure to try getting you to pull the trigger. The yellow one would deff be nice but when right on the edge of budget it isn't worth it.

[Ninjazx71]

So may have found the right car. Nice clean 2006 B&W Coupe w/ 35k miles. Corsa exhaust, Wavetrac Diff, 3.73's, K&N, 3M clearbra (or whatever the name is), full tints, and black powder coated wheels. About $46k, which from looking around seems like a pretty good deal these days.

I know the miles are up there a little, but it's been a driven car. And if the 3.73's are too much, I can swap those out. If those are the worst I need to worry about... not sure there is anything to actually be worried about.

[Steve M]

Personally, I'd ditch the 3.73s, but you might end up liking it, so who knows. They at least addressed the Gen 3's weak differential, so that's a plus.

Are you intending to use this primarily as a street car?

[proedge]

So may have found the right car. Nice clean 2006 B&W Coupe w/ 35k miles. Corsa exhaust, Wavetrac Diff, 3.73's, K&N, 3M clearbra (or whatever the name is), full tints, and black powder coated wheels. About $46k, which from looking around seems like a pretty good deal these days.

I know the miles are up there a little, but it's been a driven car. And if the 3.73's are too much, I can swap those out. If those are the worst I need to worry about... not sure there is anything to actually be worried about.

sounds like a nice car and a good price. miles shouldn't scare you one bit. I'd much rather buy a car with 35k miles that's actually been driven than one with 10k miles that has sat around with all the seals drying up

[Ninjazx71]

Are you intending to use this primarily as a street car?

I'll likely use it most for just street use and driving around, with the occasional street/highway romps for fun. Actual track time would be few and far between, if ever.

[Roddy]

Sounds like a good deal!

[Bmw2nv2000]

I guess I could have sold you my 06 B/W coupe for $42k if I knew that's what you wanted. Congrats on buying one of the most iconic color combo vipers.

[Victxv10]

Blue/silver 9800 mile 2006 coupe on the VOA Facebook page, with Belanger, black ACR wheels, asking $52K

[serpent]

I guess I could have sold you my 06 B/W coupe for $42k if I knew that's what you wanted. Congrats on buying one of the most iconic color combo vipers.
Miles? Send me the deets through PM.
clean title, etc...

[Bmw2nv2000]

Yep clean title car, and extremely clean car too. Has a few nice mods(GTS blue calipers w/ white viper lettering, Blue trimmed loydd mats, Eibach springs/caps, 15% tint all around, Magnaflow catbacks, & K&N intake) currently has 35K miles. Not looking to sell till after the Tail of the Dragon trip in May

[C-Bass]

Yep clean title car, and extremely clean car too. Has a few nice mods(GTS blue calipers w/ white viper lettering, Blue trimmed loydd mats, Eibach springs/caps, 15% tint all around, Magnaflow catbacks, & K&N intake) currently has 35K miles. Not looking to sell till after the Tail of the Dragon trip in May

Would love to see some pics. Just recently I have been toying with the idea of B&W coupes.

[Bmw2nv2000]

Be glad to post pics but car is at my other home 150 miles away. I will snap some pics when Im there later this week

[MtnBiker]

I have a beautiful 2010 B/W for sale.

[viper_eddie]

This one is back on the market, not sure if there's something wrong with it but he does say he has an inspection report. When I was first searching to buy a Viper, he was at 52k and now he's lower than that. I think this is a pretty good deal assuming it checks out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-SRT-10-/181735379147?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a5045d0cb&item=181735379147

[Victxv10]

This one is back on the market, not sure if there's something wrong with it but he does say he has an inspection report. When I first searching to buy a Viper, he was at 52k and now he's lower than that. I think this is a pretty good deal assuming it checks out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-SRT-10-/181735379147?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a5045d0cb&item=181735379147

This looks like a pretty good deal.

[Ninjazx71]

This one is back on the market, not sure if there's something wrong with it but he does say he has an inspection report. When I first searching to buy a Viper, he was at 52k and now he's lower than that. I think this is a pretty good deal assuming it checks out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-SRT-10-/181735379147?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a5045d0cb&item=181735379147

Definitely looks like a good deal, however not sure whether it's legit or not. Did a quick search on the VIN online and it looks like over on ViperAlley someone was asking about this same car 3 months ago... when it was wrapped in Black w/ Silver stripes. After emailing the guy, it sounded like a scam when the email said the car was in Portugal, blah, blah, blah.

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-iii/204257-any-one-know-car.html

Sent the seller a few questions and will see what he comes back with. Guessing it might be a case of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"...

[Stealth78]

I'll likely use it most for just street use and driving around, with the occasional street/highway romps for fun. Actual track time would be few and far between, if ever.

Honestly if you are not going to track the car save yourself the money and buy a Gen 3. Where are you located? I do not have my car listed for sale but I'm contemplating it to buy a Gen 4, as I might be getting more involved with the track. FYI I've never had my car on a track. If you are even remotely close to me you are more than welcome to come and look at my car.

[Ninjazx71]

Honestly if you are not going to track the car save yourself the money and buy a Gen 3. Where are you located? I do not have my car listed for sale but I'm contemplating it to buy a Gen 4, as I might be getting more involved with the track. FYI I've never had my car on a track. If you are even remotely close to me you are more than welcome to come and look at my car.


I'm all the way out in Chicago, so a bit of a long commute out to New England. ;-)

[98intrigue]

Definitely looks like a good deal, however not sure whether it's legit or not. Did a quick search on the VIN online and it looks like over on ViperAlley someone was asking about this same car 3 months ago... when it was wrapped in Black w/ Silver stripes. After emailing the guy, it sounded like a scam when the email said the car was in Portugal, blah, blah, blah.

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-iii/204257-any-one-know-car.html

Sent the seller a few questions and will see what he comes back with. Guessing it might be a case of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"...
The thread on VA may be misleading... the guy that said it was a scam was referencing an AutoTrader ad. I've only seen the car on ebay, but also read the seller was not very pleasant to talk to.

[Ninjazx71]

Found another reference on another forum talking about the same reply from the guy (Manuel) saying the car was in Portugal, would ship it COD, etc. Will see if I get the same copy/paste reply from him as well.

[viper_eddie]

(insert sarcasm) Here's another good deal:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5010706193.html

[Steve M]

Found another reference on another forum talking about the same reply from the guy (Manuel) saying the car was in Portugal, would ship it COD, etc. Will see if I get the same copy/paste reply from him as well.

Sounds legit...better jump on that before some African prince scoops it up.

[Ninjazx71]

(insert sarcasm) Here's another good deal:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5010706193.html

Just called the guy and put down 50% to hold the vehicle. Figure that car is a MUCH better choice than a brand new GTS or TA. LOL!!!!!

[repiV]

I didn't realize you were in Chicago. The one I sent you was in Chicago....did you check it out? He might deal on the price since you're local and could deal in person. I can put you in touch with a Viper owner in Chicago too that may help you check it out.

[v10addiction]

I own both the Gen 3 and 4.

There is a substancial difference in track ability in favor of the Gen 4.
I had my Gen 3 for two years of track racing before getting the Gen 4 and there are several seconds a lap difference.

I did everyhting I could to the GEN 3 to make it compete with GEN 4's, before giving in and buying a GEN 4.
What a difference there was! Flat out the GEN 4 is better.

This doesn't even account for the GEN 4 ACR, which I prefer over every Viper I have owned or own.
Driving around with the big wing does make me feel too old to be in the car, but then I remember my last track day and it no longer matters.

Inside they are the same car, but underneath, they are very different.

[serpent]

If anyone is interested in a red gen 4 coupe for $49k, there is one in socal: http://www.gemotorcars.com/2008_Dodge_Viper_Corona_CA_254725574.veh

It does have 61k miles though. Found it during my daily search, it's been for sale for awhile.

[MtnBiker]

Did you see the shift knob on that thing? Good grief.

[Viper Specialty]

I own both the Gen 3 and 4.

There is a substancial difference in track ability in favor of the Gen 4.
I had my Gen 3 for two years of track racing before getting the Gen 4 and there are several seconds a lap difference.

I did everyhting I could to the GEN 3 to make it compete with GEN 4's, before giving in and buying a GEN 4.
What a difference there was! Flat out the GEN 4 is better.

This doesn't even account for the GEN 4 ACR, which I prefer over every Viper I have owned or own.
Driving around with the big wing does make me feel too old to be in the car, but then I remember my last track day and it no longer matters.

Inside they are the same car, but underneath, they are very different.


You must have been focusing on the wrong parts, ha.

Pull the drivetrain out of a Gen-4, and short of the hood, they are the same car.

[Uncle Paul]

Had a Gen III with a Paxton and now a Gen IV with just a exhaust. The Gen IV will out drive the much more powerful supercharged Gen III all day long. The chassis, transmission and rear end make the Gen IV the better driving and performing car. If you just want to blast full throttle down the freeway, the extra power is fun, but for a better all around car, the Gen IV is much easier to drive fast, and much better balanced.

Loved the extreme power of the Gen III, but kept breaking stuff. Gen IV has been bulletproof.

[v10addiction]

You must have been focusing on the wrong parts, ha.

Pull the drivetrain out of a Gen-4, and short of the hood, they are the same car.

That's precisely the point, the drive line makes all the difference and believe it or not, the hood makes a difference as well.
The Gen 4 stays cooler longer.

What you'll miss is the cable driven throttle, but you quickly adapt to on and off the throttle sooner.

[Ninjazx71]

Purchase Pending... ;-) Woot Woot!!!!!

[Bmw2nv2000]

Which car?

[Vprbite]

Just called the guy and put down 50% to hold the vehicle. Figure that car is a MUCH better choice than a brand new GTS or TA. LOL!!!!!


Werent those cars supposed to come with some Aero too? I assume it's there given how well the car is preserved. I don't know a lot about that special edition but IIRC they are a pretty sweet package. Not worth that price but they are sweet. Pretty sure Tomball had one in there recently.

[Ninjazx71]

Which car?

Once it shows up in a few weeks I'll spill the beans. ;-)

I will say though that I opt'd for a Gen4. Woot! Can't wait!!!!

[Redx]

congrats, you wont regret it! gen iv is the way to go.

[Viper Specialty]

That's precisely the point, the drive line makes all the difference and believe it or not, the hood makes a difference as well.
The Gen 4 stays cooler longer.

What you'll miss is the cable driven throttle, but you quickly adapt to on and off the throttle sooner.

I think you missed what I was getting at. My point is that there is NOTHING you can do or have with a Gen-4, that you cannot do/get/swap with a Gen-3. You can quite literally convert one car into the other. Comparing bone stock to bone stock is a rather short-sighted argument in the case of these cars and what is available, not that you were doing so.

If you choose the correct driveline components to upgrade a Gen-3, you can match or surpass a Gen-4. No two ways about it. A 725 horsepower Gen-3 with a stock or modded TR6060, Wavetrac or GKN, and Motons or even Gen-4 shocks, KW, etc will run circles around a Gen-4, for a similar price point. You cant argue the fact, you can only argue ones willingness to build such a car. When you take the same base chassis, fix/swap what needs to be, and add more power than the Gen-4, you exceed the capabilities of the Gen-4. There is no magic in that.

I own both... and I don't sleep with either particular camp, they both have a strengths and weaknesses.

[Snakeracer]

I think you missed what I was getting at. My point is that there is NOTHING you can do or have with a Gen-4, that you cannot do/get/swap with a Gen-3. You can quite literally convert one car into the other. Comparing bone stock to bone stock is a rather short-sighted argument in the case of these cars and what is available, not that you were doing so.

If you choose the correct driveline components to upgrade a Gen-3, you can match or surpass a Gen-4. No two ways about it. A 725 horsepower Gen-3 with a stock or modded TR6060, Wavetrac or GKN, and Motons or even Gen-4 shocks, KW, etc will run circles around a Gen-4, for a similar price point. You cant argue the fact, you can only argue ones willingness to build such a car. When you take the same base chassis, fix/swap what needs to be, and add more power than the Gen-4, you exceed the capabilities of the Gen-4. There is no magic in that.

I own both... and I don't sleep with either particular camp, they both have a strengths and weaknesses.

Well considering the topic: it sounds like the individual wants to buy one or the other. Not buy one and upgrade it into the other however possible it may be. Otherwise if this is all about which one should be upgraded well it really shouldn't matter because that's all dependent on the limitations of ones budget anyways.. which could be a factor most relevant.

[Ninjazx71]

Well considering the topic: it sounds like the individual wants to buy one or the other. Not buy one and upgrade it into the other however possible it may be. Otherwise if this is all about which one should be upgraded well it really shouldn't matter because that's all dependent on the limitations of ones budget anyways.. which could be a factor most relevant.

That's really what it came down to. I agree that I could have picked up a Gen3 and then upgraded a number of things to get it to the same level as the Gen4, but that would take quite a bit of time, effort and $$$ to do. With the already stout rear diff, better trans, oil pickup benefits, more baseline starting power, some mods already done, etc. I decided the Gen4 route was the best option for me.

[Snakeracer]

That's really what it came down to. I agree that I could have picked up a Gen3 and then upgraded a number of things to get it to the same level as the Gen4, but that would take quite a bit of time, effort and $$$ to do. With the already stout rear diff, better trans, oil pickup benefits, more baseline starting power, some mods already done, etc. I decided the Gen4 route was the best option for me.

Fantastic! Glad you figured it all out. I've only found disappointment in everything I drive that's not a viper. :lame:

[MtnBiker]

I've only found disappointment in everything I drive that's not a viper. :lame:

^^^^^This^^^^^

[Ninjazx71]

Fantastic! Glad you figured it all out. I've only found disappointment in everything I drive that's not a viper. :lame:

LOL! And that will be shitty weather and winter when I'm driving my Expedition. DOH!!!!!!

[speedtactics]

I have a Gen 3 coupe. I upgraded my brake rotors to the ACR rotor. Brakes are never a problem. I changed the exhaust to 2008 mopar exhaust (no crossovers and a power gain) K&N intake and BBK throttle bodies, ACR 3 way KW shocks.MGW shifter linkage kit and short throw handle helps the transmission significantly. (not up to gen 4 but way better) I track the car frequently, it's a great car, and pretty built proof. It's pulling 467rwhp which is pretty good for a Gen 3. It comes down to the driver. I can run circles around Gen 4 cars then there are guys in raced out gen 2 cars that can go faster then me so...... Buy a car and learn to drive it. Horse power means nothing if you can't handle it.:stickmen_burningsti

[Stealth78]

I have a Gen 3 coupe. I upgraded my brake rotors to the ACR rotor. Brakes are never a problem. I changed the exhaust to 2008 mopar exhaust (no crossovers and a power gain) K&N intake and BBK throttle bodies, ACR 3 way KW shocks.MGW shifter linkage kit and short throw handle helps the transmission significantly. (not up to gen 4 but way better) I track the car frequently, it's a great car, and pretty built proof. It's pulling 467rwhp which is pretty good for a Gen 3. It comes down to the driver. I can run circles around Gen 4 cars then there are guys in raced out gen 2 cars that can go faster then me so...... Buy a car and learn to drive it. Horse power means nothing if you can't handle it.:stickmen_burningsti

Ehhh.... did you copy and paste this from the other thread??? :hog:

[serpent]

LOL! And that will be shitty weather and winter when I'm driving my Expedition. DOH!!!!!!
C'mon man, spill the beans. What car did u get, color?
Btw, there's a IV red white-striped coupe in socal, price went down to 48k. It has 64k miles.

[Ninjazx71]

C'mon man, spill the beans. What car did u get, color?
Btw, there's a IV red white-striped coupe in socal, price went down to 48k. It has 64k miles.

Lol! You think the suspense is killing you? Imagine how the waiting is killing me! It's almost like a right of passage I guess waiting weeks for your car after you finally decide what to get. Balls! (Goldbergs btw... hahaha ). As soon as all my ducks are in a row I'll let change know. Don't want to jinx anything. ;-)

[serpent]

Lol! You think the suspense is killing you? Imagine how the waiting is killing me! It's almost like a right of passage I guess waiting weeks for your car after you finally decide what to get. Balls! (Goldbergs btw... hahaha ). As soon as all my ducks are in a row I'll let change know. Don't want to jinx anything. ;-)
Its not the suspense, its your purchase, what would anyone care?

Just wanted to know what you got. The only thing I'm filled with suspense is how well the new ACR will do on any give road course.

[Bmw2nv2000]

LOL the dragging out which car you bought is kinda lame IMO. I mean if you have already bought it I really don't see why you don't share your decision since you are the one who started the thread based solely on that exact subject. So have you actually bought a car or have you found one and your "trying" to buy it? The Jinx comment and the weeks of waiting makes a person wonder if you are an actual owner right now or hoping soon to be an owner

[Sybil TF]

You must have been focusing on the wrong parts, ha.

Pull the drivetrain out of a Gen-4, and short of the hood, they are the same car.:lol2:

[viper_eddie]

Give the guy a break, lol. Buyers and sellers many a times change their minds last minute. Deals that were done end up not going through for various reasons. As soon as he has it he can take pics and post it...

[Bmw2nv2000]

I guess your right eddie. I just the kind of guy I don't get excited and don't say a word about what Im gonna buy till I already own it. Esp if I started a thread openly discussing my plans. Just thought it was odd how it all the sudden became a big secret straight from the OP's mouth in the end.

[viper_eddie]

I guess your right eddie. I just the kind of guy I don't get excited and don't say a word about what Im gonna buy till I already own it. Esp if I started a thread openly discussing my plans. Just thought it was odd how it all the sudden became a big secret straight from the OP's mouth in the end.

When I bought my 2009 Viper, I called the guy Thursday and told him I'm flying with cash tomorrow to pick it up. Do you need a deposit? He said no, don't worry I'm not going to sell it to anyone else. I wasn't really that worried that someone would pick it up from 10 AM until 1 PM when I was due to arrive, HOWEVER, I did read a review on Yelp from someone claiming that the same dealer had sold a car from underneath him. And I've heard/read countless of stories from other people who say they had a deposit and a dealer sold the car for more and returned their deposit. Maybe that's what he's worried about jinxing...idk.

I probably wouldn't be as excited now but if this will be his first Viper, you have to give him that. The night before I was due to fly out I couldn't sleep at all, I got maybe 45 min of sleep on the plane. Also, maybe he has nobody else to share his excitement with. I seriously paced my apartment for like 5 hours after I left the dealer a message until he called me back (it was New Year's so they were closed).

[97fatboy]

I have a 2009 ACR in SSG for sale. One owner car with 7k miles.

[Ninjazx71]

Hey Guys, sorry been a bit busy on this side of things (month end for work, end of school for kids, start of outside work, etc.), and then rolled right into vacation. I was waiting until everything was done and done, but right now it's just 1 done. Lol. Since the car is paid for and locked in, I guess I can go ahead and announce that I'm technically a new Viper owner! Just gotta wait for transport which should be happening this week and being delivered next Saturday.

I decided to buy MtnBiker's 2010 B&W. :-) Already had basically all mods that I would want to do, and some extras I prob never would have thought of. Figured between the trans, extra HP, better 4th gearing, and even the hood that I preferred, that the Gen4 was the better choice for me.

Definitely been excited on this side, but not much time to enjoy it just yet due to everything else I've got going on. Even as we speak I'm in a car on the way to Disney until Friday. Hahaha. As soon as vacation is over, the fun should begin!

Will post pics as soon as the truck role up to my house. Cannot wait!

[Steve M]

Excellent choice...I think you will be more than pleased.

[viper_eddie]

Congrats, great choice!

[XSnake]

Nice choice

[ACRucrazy]

Great car! About time it sold!

[99RT10]

Congrats, you got a well sorted out car. :drive:

[Ninjazx71]

Well... one step closer as I've finally got a confirmed pickup and delivery date. This time next week I should have the beast in my garage! Cannot wait!

[ACR08]

I love my Gen 4. I think you made the right choice. Have fun.