G5 sales update info

[F2V]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/26/gilles-on-slow-viper-sales/

[docwviper]

Gilles is optimistic. I'm one of the ones who bought mine in the winter :)

[Nine Ball]

Denial much? If the item was hot, people would buy what was readily available, too. Agreed that the cars should be 100% customizable, including ALL color combos and stripes. Get rid of the SRT and GTS packages, make everything an option.

[Thawk97]

Hopefully the positive spin really IS how SRT feels. That'd be encouraging to know the Viper isn't near death. And, hopefully they DO continue to learn how to serve the market and more people end up ordering.

[Newport Viper]

I'm just bummed for all that have put their time and life into the current version not to yet reap the rewards. Hopefully things will turn. I really don't want to see it go away. You should have seen how mobbed the Vette was at the LA autoshow. The Viper needed one more evolution before it went retro with the Gen V.

[ViperSmith]

Denial much? If the item was hot, people would buy what was readily available, too. Agreed that the cars should be 100% customizable, including ALL color combos and stripes. Get rid of the SRT and GTS packages, make everything an option.

Well, could be signs internally that Chrysler isn't too upset so far... I'd hope.

I think with the SRT driving program for the Viper they are figuring it out. We shall see.

I think the launch would have been 10x better if we all got our cars first, instead of ones sitting on dealer lots. SRT screwed the pooch there.

I'd love to know how many orders were canceled.

[ViperGeorge]

There was thread about what would it take for you to buy a Gen 5. I see a couple of issues that SRT has not yet addressed.

1) Price is high, I understand SRT increased their margins on the car and dealers are still trying to sell the car at or over sticker. Dealers may be thinking well I only have one of these things so why not ask for the moon. They may fail to realize their are hundreds out there.

2) SRT authorized dealers do not even list SRT as a brand on their website. Vipers are, if listed, tagged as Dodges. If you find one on a dealer website, print the window sticker, it still says Dodge.

3) Viper buyers want what they want as Ralph says. Problem is how on Earth do you find it? Many of us would buy a car we want from across the country but trying to find it via the dealer websites is near impossible. drivesrt.com should allow you to build the car and then tell you if any dealer in the country has it or not. Sure the stupid manufacturer websites allow you to build vehicles and then locate them. Did you ever try it? Build a Grand Cherokee in a specific color, with specific options, with specific engine and then say "find my vehicle". They take you to a local dealer's site that has Grand Cherokees but not anything like the one you built. Often they don't even have the color or trim level you specified. WTF is the point of building a vehicle if they actually won't find it for you? Stupid. SRT should fix this on their website. Want a white GTS with dual black stripes and upgraded stereo? Ok, that car is at xyz dealer in Florida. Simple.

4) Not enough horsepower to claim bragging rights. My 2013 Shelby has more. Bump it I say.

5) Bad marketing was evident when they sent cars for magazine testing that weren't even aligned properly. Seriously, they couldn't have checked the alignment?

6) Tell dealers that if they charge above sticker they will be dropped from the SRT dealer network. I recently looked at an SRT8 Jeep at a local dealer. They wanted something like $20K over sticker.

But I still want one.

[KRATEDISEASE]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/26/gilles-on-slow-viper-sales/


More complete article is here http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/viper-staying-chrysler-s-lineup

Chrysler has built about 800 ’13 Vipers .Gilles says there are about 500 cars in stock, waiting for buyers.

Through October, Chrysler sold 495 Vipers

[Martin]

I think Ralph is completely right about the buyer wanting what they want. The problem is that when you give people too many options, you give them too many chances to find something that they don't like or don't want to pay for. Lots of options is fantastic when your whole business model is around building cars to order - it gives the buyer the impression that they're customizing a car for themselves. But, if you give dealers the responsibility of trying to figure out what their customers want, and you've given them a lot of options to make a mistake, you're going to end up with unsold cars... I look at a ton of cars available out there on the lots, and I think "if it only had the Matte Black Sidewinders on it", or "if they only didn't spend thousands for a stupid headliner that I don't need" or, "WTF, how many thousands of dollars does it cost to put stripes on it, and why did they pick that color?".

What they did with the original Gen I and II cars was perfect - don't give people too many options, and don't give the dealers too many choices to make. The cars were what they were, and it was nearly impossible to keep them in stock. Now, if they did an "order only" policy today, the massive number of options might have been perfect - but like was said above, the pre-ordered cars were the last to be built, and the dealer-ordered cars ended up sitting on the dealership floors...

I think we'll see a totally different marketplace with the TA models that are coming out. Simple decision - choose one of three cool colors (and even that has people in analysis paralysis sometimes). Those won't sit on dealer lots too long.

[BlknBlu]

2014 should be a much better year for the Viper. So many things went wrong with the car and the buying experience. those problems look to have been sorted out.

Long Live the Viper

Bruce

[Policy Limits]

The 14 is the same car as the 13 so how someone could love the former & hate the latter is beyond me. Cutting production 30% speaks volumes though. The people who want to buy can't afford it and the people with the coin don't want it. Then there's me & 400 others who bought sight unseen. Time will tell if this gen continues. I want to see a vert & ACR personally and hope things improve

[ViperSmith]

The 14 is the same car as the 13 so how someone could love the former & hate the latter is beyond me. Cutting production 30% speaks volumes though. The people who want to buy can't afford it and the people with the coin don't want it. Then there's me & 400 others who bought sight unseen. Time will tell if this gen continues. I want to see a vert & ACR personally and hope things improve

I think they will. We own the best kept secret in cars at the moment. I've let people drive it that are in the market and they want one bad.

The SRT driving experience they are doing in the south seems to be garnering a lot of interest as well. I think 2014 will be a great year for the car. The TA is getting good press and they are getting their act together.

[jkviper]

I think the launch itself was so well done. The way Ralph introduced the car in NYC and via the internet. The technical presentation along with a very nice charity event, and the total surprise of going racing with the Gen V. The launch was so much better than the lame intro that the vette had at the auto show. Not even close.

Unfortunately a number of things were not well executed on from there by SRT where Chevy just nailed it for their market.

I'm still on the fence with what I will buy next. I sold my 2006 Viper Coupe in anticipation of getting something new at some point. Would probably prefer a Viper GTS with all the options, but just don't see the value along with the price. Waiting to see the Z06/ZR1 announcement in January or at least that is the rumor and then figure it out.

Could also just get a fully loaded C7 at about 70K, put an E-force Supercharger on it for about 600 horse and have something very similar to a Viper GTS for about 35-45K less. Not bashing the Viper at all, but I think I am or was the typical Viper buyer and SRT has not made the decision easy.

[ViperSmith]

I think the launch itself was so well done. The way Ralph introduced the car in NYC and via the internet. The technical presentation along with a very nice charity event, and the total surprise of going racing with the Gen V. The launch was so much better than the lame intro that the vette had at the auto show. Not even close.

Unfortunately a number of things were not well executed on from there by SRT where Chevy just nailed it for their market.

I'm still on the fence with what I will buy next. I sold my 2006 Viper Coupe in anticipation of getting something new at some point. Would probably prefer a Viper GTS with all the options, but just don't see the value along with the price. Waiting to see the Z06/ZR1 announcement in January or at least that is the rumor and then figure it out.

Could also just get a fully loaded C7 at about 70K, put an E-force Supercharger on it for about 600 horse and have something very similar to a Viper GTS for about 35-45K less. Not bashing the Viper at all, but I think I am or was the typical Viper buyer and SRT has not made the decision easy.

I'ld keep your eye open, I think you'll be able to steal one if you are in the market next year.

[theviper]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/26/gilles-on-slow-viper-sales/

I was shocked when I read the article. It's so sad to see that Ralph, who we all thought was brilliant, saying things that are just crazy.

Does he seriously thinks that cars sitting on lots is a good thing?
Does he not get that dealer's floorplan expires and they are stuck with paperweights?
Does he seriously think that it is all the dealer's fault?
He failed to mention that his company ignored customer orders in favor for dealer orders. He also failed to mention that many Vipers for sale were priced below $130K-$140K.
Does he seriously think everything is fine now that they have 200 orders total?

Maybe he is just trying to paint a rosy picture as part of some new marketing campaign. But I'm afraid he drank too much of his own kool-aid. Everything is not perfect and cars sitting on dealer lots is not "sexy"!! As much as I don't like Chevy, they would never put out a release like this. This is not good for Viper unfortunately.

[slitherv10]

I was shocked when I read the article. It's so sad to see that Ralph, who we all thought was brilliant, saying things that are just crazy.

Does he seriously thinks that cars sitting on lots is a good thing?
Does he not get that dealer's floorplan expires and they are stuck with paperweights?
Does he seriously think that it is all the dealer's fault?
He failed to mention that his company ignored customer orders in favor for dealer orders. He also failed to mention that many Vipers for sale were priced below $130K-$140K.
Does he seriously think everything is fine now that they have 200 orders total?

Maybe he is just trying to paint a rosy picture as part of some new marketing campaign. But I'm afraid he drank too much of his own kool-aid. Everything is not perfect and cars sitting on dealer lots is not "sexy"!! As much as I don't like Chevy, they would never put out a release like this. This is not good for Viper unfortunately.



Why do I hate to agree with you ?:t0135:

[KRATEDISEASE]

I was shocked when I read the article. It's so sad to see that Ralph, who we all thought was brilliant, saying things that are just crazy.

Does he seriously thinks that cars sitting on lots is a good thing?
Does he not get that dealer's floorplan expires and they are stuck with paperweights?
Does he seriously think that it is all the dealer's fault?
He failed to mention that his company ignored customer orders in favor for dealer orders. He also failed to mention that many Vipers for sale were priced below $130K-$140K.
Does he seriously think everything is fine now that they have 200 orders total?

Maybe he is just trying to paint a rosy picture as part of some new marketing campaign. But I'm afraid he drank too much of his own kool-aid. Everything is not perfect and cars sitting on dealer lots is not "sexy"!! As much as I don't like Chevy, they would never put out a release like this. This is not good for Viper unfortunately.

Yes, I also agree. his response/answers were horrible, almost embarrassing . Sorry to say it.

To say its sexy to have a Viper sit in dealer showrooms ?

Its OK to put a positive spin, that is expected. But he seems to have put his foot in his mouth.

I would have just said that production was reduced due to supplier issues. Just lie and say that a supplier had difficulty suppling a key component so production had to be reduced until the suppler issues come back in line. And if asked about the unsold cars, just say that there were dealer issues where cars were released to dealers incorrectly that did not have the proper customer demographics that other dealers with the high demographic demand and waiting lists were unfortunately not given enough cars. Blame that on an outside marketing company. Then state that for 2014 those issues have been resolved and production and demand should ramp up and be back on track in 2014. Then say that customer demand/backlog is actually quite pent up but you are having difficulty reorganizing the new dealer network and are now getting cars to dealers with pent up demand.

[Viktimize]

I'ld keep your eye open, I think you'll be able to steal one if you are in the market next year.

This is what I'm wondering about, is if I will be able to steal a 2013 left on the lot once the 2014 is in production. I see dealers are already giving away the Viper for invoice because of slow sales.

[RedTanRT/10]

Ralph, You started with a ton of sold orders and couldn't produce custom spec'd vipers for 6 months, along the way you lost a lot of customers, so now it's the dealers fault? So if that's really your belief, here's how to fix that , turn half the units on the ground in dealer stock into demo's and allow customers with sold (custom) orders to drive them as courtesy cars. (Give the dealers a generous demo allowance) Fix your ordering to production to delivery time to 6 weeks.

Best sales month to date was October with 69 retail units, On October 31st reported 1305 built and a total of 495 sold and 600 in inventory. So where are the other 200 vipers, backed up at the plant, exec demo's, show cars???

Even with the production slow down still producing 33 vipers per week, I'm sure the TA's are sold orders but I can't believe that all the vipers being built have homes. Not sure if that was a good move to tell the newer viper dealers who paid the $25K to sell them that they don't know what their doing?? Lot's of vipers for sale at invoice, maybe this article is cover to give them dealer cash to clean up the inventory??

[ViperSmith]

FWIW


In my db I currently have 849 2013 Vipers. I'm still compiling data and checking to see if I missed any. It's surprising just how many of those 849 I see going to regions outside the US. I can't comment on sales data, but ... well, I'll just stop here.


Lets just say, I'm also curious to see if 2013 has as many 1 of 1's as 2010

Vj
How many SRT models were built outside of the original 100 red SRT models w/ track pack?

I heard 70.

[slitherv10]

Ralph may have put some words together that may not have been to the benefit of the Viper but, what I do know, is he is just like any of us here who would love more than to see the Viper and the brand where it should be. At the top of the food chain. The only difference between us and him is,

1. He had the money, balls and backup, to keep the brand alive.

2. His hands are tied as his last name is neither FIAT nor Chrysler,

3. If uncertain about your question, see above.

He is human just like us, with a passion for a car that he actually stuck his neck out a lot more than any of us here would have ever even thought about. Again, I , as well as many of you, have our opinions on what is going on over there. But, unfortunately we are not there. We are over here where it is safe, cheap and easy to make assumptions and opinions which we have no facts or figures to figure out. Between Fiat, Chrysler, himself, the SRT team, the Viper community, dealerships and the media, they all have made mistakes. Just as you and I have. You guys actually think Ralph would have hated to see a 700 HP car and sales that hit the roof ?! Of course he would. He's a car guy people. He wants everything we want and more ! That unfortunately is easier said then done.

[theviper]

Ralph may have put some words together that may not have been to the benefit of the Viper but, what I do know, is he is just like any of us here who would love more than to see the Viper and the brand where it should be. At the top of the food chain. The only difference between us and him is,

1. He had the money, balls and backup, to keep the brand alive.

2. His hands are tied as his last name is neither FIAT nor Chrysler,

3. If uncertain about your question, see above.

He is human just like us, with a passion for a car that he actually stuck his neck out a lot more than any of us here would have ever even thought about. Again, I , as well as many of you, have our opinions on what is going on over there. But, unfortunately we are not there. We are over here where it is safe, cheap and easy to make assumptions and opinions which we have no facts or figures to figure out. Between Fiat, Chrysler, himself, the SRT team, the Viper community, dealerships and the media, they all have made mistakes. Just as you and I have. You guys actually think Ralph would have hated to see a 700 HP car and sales that hit the roof ?! Of course he would. He's a car guy people. He wants everything we want and more ! That unfortunately is easier said then done.

True, but at the same time, it's really not that hard to do things average or even correctly. In my profession, failure is not an option...definitely not multiple times on the same project. We all like Ralph...I think he's a good guy! I was really happy...even proud, when he was chosen to be the CEO of SRT. At the time, I thought it could have made SRT the coolest, hippest brand. I've since learned (and this article from today supports) that asking a designer at a car company to be the CEO of that company is like asking the architect of a hospital to be the medical director of the hospital. It doesn't work.

BTW, I had 2 orders in for a Gen V in the spring. Cancelled them because I couldn't get the color combos I wanted and because allocation was very hard because they were "sold out"!

[99RT10]

This is what I'm wondering about, is if I will be able to steal a 2013 left on the lot once the 2014 is in production. I see dealers are already giving away the Viper for invoice because of slow sales.

Wait till Christmas or New Years. And if they have 2013 when the 2015s come out, fire sale. $30-40k off invoice.

[KRATEDISEASE]

True, but at the same time, it's really not that hard to do things average or even correctly. In my profession, failure is not an option...definitely not multiple times on the same project. We all like Ralph...I think he's a good guy! I was really happy...even proud, when he was chosen to be the CEO of SRT. At the time, I thought it could have made SRT the coolest, hippest brand. I've since learned (and this article from today supports) that asking a designer at a car company to be the CEO of that company is like asking the architect of a hospital to be the medical director of the hospital. It doesn't work.

BTW, I had 2 orders in for a Gen V in the spring. Cancelled them because I couldn't get the color combos I wanted and because allocation was very hard because they were "sold out"!

100% correct, hit the nail on the head.

[F2V]

Moderators..

[City]

I've alerted those involved and ask that everyone PLEASE try to keep this thread reasonably calm and friendly. Despite appearance to contrary, everyone here is speculating and offering opinion based on that speculation. Let's bear that in mind and not pronounce judgement(s) without actual facts ... PLEASE.

[mnc2886]

Denial much? If the item was hot, people would buy what was readily available, too. Agreed that the cars should be 100% customizable, including ALL color combos and stripes. Get rid of the SRT and GTS packages, make everything an option.

I agree that this needs to happen. It could open the market up more. Think about it. The GTS has some things people may have wanted on an SRT without the price tag. Also, getting rid of the trak-pak option on base model cars was a huge mistake. First it is said too many GTS orders which kind of got away from the Viper heritage, but the reaction was to make the base model get away from it as well? I think it has been posted over 100 times that a SRT with a trak-pak was a great value. Now it isn't even available.

[ViperTony]

As with any media reports quotes get taken out of context or simply butchered. Jalopnik has a story on the Ralph/G5 Sales and notice how they quoted him a bit differently? http://jalopnik.com/ralph-giles-says-the-srt-viper-is-selling-just-fine-th-1472084079?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebo ok&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

While dealers may be part of the G5 sales problem the wounds go as far back as when SRT sent the not-ready G5 test mules to the magazines. And we all know how that played out. Marketing....what marketing? Etc. There has been a series of missteps with the G5 with now the dealers being another part of the problem:

"I don't think our network understands the segment very well. I think the mistake we're making is understanding the customer who spends $130,000 to $140,000 for a car. They want what they want – their color, their stripe, their package, their interior. And dealers were trying to anticipate the market ended up creating a car that may not be the right car."

Whether this is accurate or not what will change going into the 2014 model/sales year to correct this? It will be interesting to see whether or not Chrysler/SRT have learned from their mistakes and take steps to correct them.

[ViperSmith]

Tony,

I think the way I read it is, dealers loaded up on optioned out GTS models of what they thought customers would want.

I think what Ralph seems to be hinting at is, dealers should be ordering base SRT models if they want floor models. Customers that want to drop $140k+ aren't going to want what the sales manager optioned out, they are going to want what they option out.

While people may not think there is a big difference between $102k and $140k, there is. I think dealers got into the mindset "if they can swing $102, they can swing $140+"

[Troublemaker]

I don't know if I'll ruffle feathers with this one or not. But to me the difference between the 102,000 and 140,000 cars are seats, stereo and shocks. The stripes and other little things are just cosmetics. When we walked into the dealer they only had GTSs, which wasn't what I was looking for but I figured I would take a look anyway. After about 10 minutes of a salesman reciting whatever they tought him to say, the next round of questions left him baffled. Just the question of sitting in the car was absurd to him, he didn't even have access to the keys without asking. It seemed like all he did was read C&D and R&T. It's not that I need to be catered to, the "buying experience" isn't a deal breaker for me, but a guy that normally sells minivans has no idea how to sell a Viper. So in the end, I don't 100% blame SRT, the dealers are botching it up even worse. It's a very nice car and a good successor to the line, but honestly I was hoping for a car that didn't get built. I was just hoping for an updated version of my car, maybe I don't fit the new car not the other way around. It's not really the price, it's being able to get exactly what I want which isn't the way they are being built. They are throwing it all in and gouging on the few options they actually offer.

[VENOM V]

I don't know if I'll ruffle feathers with this one or not. But to me the difference between the 102,000 and 140,000 cars are seats, stereo and shocks. The stripes and other little things are just cosmetics. When we walked into the dealer they only had GTSs, which wasn't what I was looking for but I figured I would take a look anyway. After about 10 minutes of a salesman reciting whatever they tought him to say, the next round of questions left him baffled. Just the question of sitting in the car was absurd to him, he didn't even have access to the keys without asking. It seemed like all he did was read C&D and R&T. It's not that I need to be catered to, the "buying experience" isn't a deal breaker for me, but a guy that normally sells minivans has no idea how to sell a Viper. So in the end, I don't 100% blame SRT, the dealers are botching it up even worse. It's a very nice car and a good successor to the line, but honestly I was hoping for a car that didn't get built. I was just hoping for an updated version of my car, maybe I don't fit the new car not the other way around. It's not really the price, it's being able to get exactly what I want which isn't the way they are being built. They are throwing it all in and gouging on the few options they actually offer.

No ruffled feathers here, I'm just trying to understand what your issue is- what about the $102K SRT is not the car you were hoping for? It is an updated version of your car, with some significant upgrades. For me, the improvements included in the GTS are what I was looking for. So I was willing to pay for the more expensive car. They make SRTs and GTSs so you can order more basic or optioned out.

My dealership experience was just exceptional. My dealer, Paul Normandin, is not only a long-time Viper owner but is a racer and an active member of the NorCal Viper Club. There are good, make that great, dealers out there. Normandin, Roanoke, Woodhouse, I'm sure there are a bunch more. There are lousy dealers too. However, even if I had a lackluster dealer, and if I really wanted the car, I wouldn't be that put off if the sales guy was not a Viper expert.

So you could go and order exactly what you want. Aside from the risk of a long wait, you can get what you want. Unless you are really not that into the Gen V, which is fine. To each his own. But in that case, this conversation is irrelevant, because you wouldn't buy the car regardless.

[BlknBlu]

There is a lot of blame to go around on the 2013 models. Dealerships did have to send 3 people to the training to be a certified Viper tech and salesman. Now what happens when they get back to the dealership and the politics they have may be a different story. I am not sure if Dealers understand that potential Viper owners (real ones) know thier audience and how much most know about the new car. This can be a frustrating experience to a buyer dealing with a lot boy who just got a promotion and says "well it has big tires". There was suppose to be a process from ordering the Vehicle to handing over the keys. All the steps inbetween had a lot of failure points and the media has never been very Viper friendly. A lot of lessons have been learned and hopefully everyone has turned the corner.

Long Live the Viper

Bruce

[1ststrike]

I think in some cases you guys are taking him to literally. I believe that when he says dealers have cars on the lot he is meaning that they actually have a car to sell. Most of them in early to mid 13 didn't and couldn't get one. I know of quite a few that never got there 13 SRT and GTS model and now got a 14 instead. I also think there are some SRT dealers that don't know who the car is marketed to sell to or how to sell to them.

[ViperSmith]

Here is why I feel zero sorrow for dealers. They have been sitting on this car near me for 6 months now.

They can eat the loss for all I care

http://i.imgur.com/amuBPct.png

Even if it is a fat finger mistake - you can't be making mistakes like that.

[VENOM V]

WOW! LOL, after marking it up, then marking it down because it didn't sell, they've marked it up again?

I'll say this, this type of crap also annoys to no end legitimate dealers, because this tends to give all dealers a bad name. Kind of like lawyers. Wait, bad example. Aren't all lawyers bad? I kid!

[Troublemaker]

No ruffled feathers here, I'm just trying to understand what your issue is- what about the $102K SRT is not the car you were hoping for? It is an updated version of your car, with some significant upgrades. For me, the improvements included in the GTS are what I was looking for. So I was willing to pay for the more expensive car. They make SRTs and GTSs so you can order more basic or optioned out.

My dealership experience was just exceptional. My dealer, Paul Normandin, is not only a long-time Viper owner but is a racer and an active member of the NorCal Viper Club. There are good, make that great, dealers out there. Normandin, Roanoke, Woodhouse, I'm sure there are a bunch more. There are lousy dealers too. However, even if I had a lackluster dealer, and if I really wanted the car, I wouldn't be that put off if the sales guy was not a Viper expert.

So you could go and order exactly what you want. Aside from the risk of a long wait, you can get what you want. Unless you are really not that into the Gen V, which is fine. To each his own. But in that case, this conversation is irrelevant, because you wouldn't buy the car regardless.


First and foremost, B&W was only offered on the Launch Editions and non of those were SRTs. That is why I purchased the 96 and also how I want to purchase my next one.

My thought process is to have delete boxes or at least substitutions. I want to choose my own wheels, let me order a full set of steel rims. I will never run a Pirelli tire again in this lifetime, again no option. I don't even know if the stereo works in my car and I would like to delete it from my next one. Throw the most bare bones shock you can find on it, I like Motons.

As you are reading this you are probably thinking I'm a dinosaur and in some respects you are right. I still want to buy a car in a way that is long gone, where a car was a " real " base model and you ordered it by option, not option package. Maybe this will be sorted out in the future and I can put a stable mate in the garage. Imagine how low they could advertise a cars price when the standard features are omitted. AC is really all I need in my toys, everything else is a want. Like I said, maybe I don't fit the car but I really want to want one.

To get back to the dealer, Roanoke is about two hours away but it may be worth the ride. I'm not going to let a bad experience turn me away, but after buying my last two cars from them I figured I would give them a shot first.

[Troublemaker]

Here is why I feel zero sorrow for dealers. They have been sitting on this car near me for 6 months now.

They can eat the loss for all I care

http://i.imgur.com/amuBPct.png

Even if it is a fat finger mistake - you can't be making mistakes like that.

So is that 2 supposed to be a 1 or are they high?

[ViperSmith]

WOW! LOL, after marking it up, then marking it down because it didn't sell, they've marked it up again?

I'll say this, this type of crap also annoys to no end legitimate dealers, because this tends to give all dealers a bad name. Kind of like lawyers. Wait, bad example. Aren't all lawyers bad? I kid!

LOL, I emailed the service manager and he said it has to be a mistake. But still, you can't make those kinds of mistakes trying to sell the car.

Who is going to even inquire about the car when they have it listed for $200k+ ???

- - - Updated - - -


So is that 2 supposed to be a 1 or are they high?

They claim it is wrong, but lordy, you can't make mistakes like that in 2013!

[theviper]

Dealers may be partly to blame, but everyone...including SRT...seems to be missing the point that dealers have been selling Vipers for 2 decades! 20+ years actually. Gen 5 is not the first time they have been selling Vipers. And price adjusted, the Vipers have always been "expensive" to the general population.

SRT knew there were dealer issues for years...decades...and they could have done something about it. Bottom line is they didn't. So I still place the blame on SRT, not the dealers. Dealers will be dealers unless a specific intervention is made. That was not done effectively, correctly, or at all.

My dealer is one of the top 3 Viper dealers in the country (you all know them here) and I still couldn't get the simple color combos I wanted (SRT's fault) and even if I could, they were going to make me wait for months before delivery (SRT's fault) while random dealers who don't know squat about Vipers were going to get their poorly configured Vipers before me.

Net result = loss of 2 Viper sales for SRT from me (and over 10 that I was going to wholesale to clients). Possible ramification = after 20 years of loving the Viper, it has a "not-so-perfect" taste in my mouth. The car is starting to represent a blame-game of who screwed it up and that is just sad. These kind of situations never turn out good in my experience consulting with large companies. Just giving my honest insight.

[slitherv10]

Look !! No disrespect to Tomball, Roanoke or the Big Viper dealers but, when you got dealerships crying about sales and the economy and no customers etc, why the heck ( for a lack of a better word) would you close on Sundays. Why/?!! It's not enough that todays lifestyle is fast paced and leaves most of us no time during the week from working overtime or more hours, kids to pick up from school and grocery shopping etc...you guys know the rift. No one has time during the week to do anything. Never mind going to a dealership during the week. Come on, I am going to go home and take the kids and wife on a Tuesday lets say, and shop for a car. You got to be kidding. Most people even work Saturdays and or do most of their family outings or shopping for necessities on that day. That leaves Sunday, which also has its duties.
So as you can see, it does not leave a lot of time or days during the week to go car hunting and what do dealers do.......they close Sundays when people may and usually are readily available as a family to come out and find a car. Stay open!! why wouldn't you stay open. The other companies and shops that due are stupid. they don't want to be home with the family?
Anyway, I don't feel sorry for them at all. If they want to sell more cars than why are you limiting the number of days that you are open that you can do that?

[Troublemaker]

Look !! No disrespect to Tomball, Roanoke or the Big Viper dealers but, when you got dealerships crying about sales and the economy and no customers etc, why the heck ( for a lack of a better word) would you close on Sundays. Why/?!! It's not enough that todays lifestyle is fast paced and leaves most of us no time during the week from working overtime or more hours, kids to pick up from school and grocery shopping etc...you guys know the rift. No one has time during the week to do anything. Never mind going to a dealership during the week. Come on, I am going to go home and take the kids and wife on a Tuesday lets say, and shop for a car. You got to be kidding. Most people even work Saturdays and or do most of their family outings or shopping for necessities on that day. That leaves Sunday, which also has its duties.
So as you can see, it does not leave a lot of time or days during the week to go car hunting and what do dealers do.......they close Sundays when people may and usually are readily available as a family to come out and find a car. Stay open!! why wouldn't you stay open. The other companies and shops that due are stupid. they don't want to be home with the family?
Anyway, I don't feel sorry for them at all. If they want to sell more cars than why are you limiting the number of days that you are open that you can do that?

It is an interesting question that I had never heard the actual answer. Apparently there are"blue laws", that prohibit it. It's an interesting and slightly archaic law. Here is where I found the part about dealerships.


In Texas, for example, blue laws prohibited selling housewares such as pots, pans, and washing machines on Sunday until 1985. In Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Oklahoma, New Jersey, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, car dealerships continue to operate under blue-law prohibitions in which an automobile may not be purchased or traded on a Sunday. Maryland permits Sunday automobile sales only in the counties of Prince George's, Montgomery, and Howard; similarly, Michigan restricts Sunday sales to only those counties with a population of less than 130,000. Texas and Utah prohibit car dealerships from operating over consecutive weekend days. In some cases these laws were created or retained with the support of those whom they affected, to allow them a day off each week without fear of their competitors still being open.[3]

[slitherv10]

It is an interesting question that I had never heard the actual answer. Apparently there are"blue laws", that prohibit it. It's an interesting and slightly archaic law. Here is where I found the part about dealerships.


In Texas, for example, blue laws prohibited selling housewares such as pots, pans, and washing machines on Sunday until 1985. In Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Oklahoma, New Jersey, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, car dealerships continue to operate under blue-law prohibitions in which an automobile may not be purchased or traded on a Sunday. Maryland permits Sunday automobile sales only in the counties of Prince George's, Montgomery, and Howard; similarly, Michigan restricts Sunday sales to only those counties with a population of less than 130,000. Texas and Utah prohibit car dealerships from operating over consecutive weekend days. In some cases these laws were created or retained with the support of those whom they affected, to allow them a day off each week without fear of their competitors still being open.[3]

that's great but, being part of the automobile association I would be fighting for Sunday openings. Its about the bottom dollar in the end. Not what the Govnt thinks is correct. There are a lot of salespeople out there that would love to work on Sundays and make an extra dollar. Especially in this economic times. Its should not be the option of the Government to pick and choose when I work and how many hours. For the few that choose to sit and relax, fine, do so, but for the many that need an extra dollar, they should be allowed to do what it takes to make it. Im surprised dealerships and the rest of the By-law held companies would sit back and listen.
We had a guy here in Toronto, Canada, back in the early 90's who fought for shops to open Sundays. He spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get the Govnt to pull the plug on allowing shops to open on Sundays. he got fined over and over again until years later through the courts , he won, thus now everyone here is legallhy allowed to open Sundays. But, who chooses to stay closed. DEALERS. Yet when you go see them on the other days, they cry about the sales and how this business is lacking sales and money. lol...too funny. When I tell them to open Sundays, they have no reply other than, well we just don't.

As for the Viper sales and the dealers. To their defence, I would have to say, that the Viper is a very small part of their sales. They are educated and concerned about the brands that keep their dealership open. The Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. They know everything about those cars. Very little about the Viper because it just doesn't sell enough to justify the need. Walk in to a Chevy dealership and ask any salesperson about the Vette and they know it inside out. They sell a lot of them and so keep themselves up to par about them.
I went and saw a 2013 last week at a dealer and asked him how many Vipers they sold. He said in the 24 years that he has been there, he has sold 3. In 24 years !! So I don't blame him for now keeping up on the model. The odds of him having to explain the car and making the sale is bar none. Most people that walk into a dealership to buy a 100K+ car usually already know the car. A lot better than any of the sales guy/gals. You and I both know that.

[VENOM V]

First and foremost, B&W was only offered on the Launch Editions and non of those were SRTs. That is why I purchased the 96 and also how I want to purchase my next one.

My thought process is to have delete boxes or at least substitutions. I want to choose my own wheels, let me order a full set of steel rims. I will never run a Pirelli tire again in this lifetime, again no option. I don't even know if the stereo works in my car and I would like to delete it from my next one. Throw the most bare bones shock you can find on it, I like Motons.

As you are reading this you are probably thinking I'm a dinosaur and in some respects you are right. I still want to buy a car in a way that is long gone, where a car was a " real " base model and you ordered it by option, not option package. Maybe this will be sorted out in the future and I can put a stable mate in the garage. Imagine how low they could advertise a cars price when the standard features are omitted. AC is really all I need in my toys, everything else is a want. Like I said, maybe I don't fit the car but I really want to want one.

To get back to the dealer, Roanoke is about two hours away but it may be worth the ride. I'm not going to let a bad experience turn me away, but after buying my last two cars from them I figured I would give them a shot first.

I do understand your frustration of wanting a blue and white, and being required to buy a fully loaded GTS when it sounds like an SRT is much closer to what you are looking for. The good news is that deals can be had on LEs, if you really want it. Someone posted that there's a dealer here in CA that is offering an LE for $20K off MSRP, in San Diego I believe. I would think that LEs are being sold at good discounts all over, as there are quite a few unsold. You can have the car shipped in an enclosed trailer for about $1000 - $2000, depending upon how far away you live from the dealer. Or call John Gastman at Roanoke and see if he's able to get an LE for you, he trades with other dealers regularly. In fact, I got my Stryker Red indirectly from Roanoke when my dealer traded John for another Viper (it happened to be my dealer's LE, believe it or not). I don't think you'll get a deep discount with Roanoke, but you'll get a stand up guy that knows Vipers.

I'm not at all a fan of Pirellis either. You could sell the Pirellis and put Michelins on. I'm about to buy Michelins to replace my worn out Pirelli Corsas on my track wheels.

[theviper]

It is an interesting question that I had never heard the actual answer. Apparently there are"blue laws", that prohibit it. It's an interesting and slightly archaic law. Here is where I found the part about dealerships.


In Texas, for example, blue laws prohibited selling housewares such as pots, pans, and washing machines on Sunday until 1985. In Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Oklahoma, New Jersey, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, car dealerships continue to operate under blue-law prohibitions in which an automobile may not be purchased or traded on a Sunday. Maryland permits Sunday automobile sales only in the counties of Prince George's, Montgomery, and Howard; similarly, Michigan restricts Sunday sales to only those counties with a population of less than 130,000. Texas and Utah prohibit car dealerships from operating over consecutive weekend days. In some cases these laws were created or retained with the support of those whom they affected, to allow them a day off each week without fear of their competitors still being open.[3]

Maybe that's part of it. There's also the little detail of paying overtime or 1.5x of wages. Tough to make a profit when your payroll overhead jumps 50%. I don't think it will increase sales to be open on Sunday. Those people who really want or need a car will come from 9am-9pm on weekdays or 9am-6pm on Saturday, which is how late many dealerships are open now around me.

[XSnake]

I talked to the regional SRT guy at the All Access event I attended. While the delayed launch didn't help things and falls squarely on the shoulders of SRT a lot of blame should be put on the dealers. As we know each dealer did have to send a service, sales, and tech to Detroit for training. The problem is that these people aren't the ones calling the shots at the dealerships. You have owners and GM's making the decisions and they are directly against what SRT has instructed. Hell, the All Access program is a direct result of dealers not allowing test drives for G5 cars. SRT has recognized the problem and came up with the tour to try and get people in cars. SRT is trying but the dealer network is letting them down. Obviously there are exceptions and we know who the good dealerships are.

GM's and owners ordered cars that they could charge the most $$ for and are now sitting on them because they jumped the gun and just wanted to be first in line. I blame SRT for making those cars first. Customers who went in and actually custom ordered a car should have been given priority. Those people had to wait months while cars that had been randomly ordered by dealers arrived and sat and some cancelled. Get the car in the hands of the enthusiasts FIRST! They pissed off a lot of their die hard loyal customers by putting them in the back of the line while they were spending the most $$$ they've ever spent on a Viper.

[Troublemaker]

Maybe that's part of it. There's also the little detail of paying overtime or 1.5x of wages. Tough to make a profit when your payroll overhead jumps 50%. I don't think it will increase sales to be open on Sunday. Those people who really want or need a car will come from 9am-9pm on weekdays or 9am-6pm on Saturday, which is how late many dealerships are open now around me.

OT actually isn't 1.5 times the current rate when it is factored correctly. Depending on what type of benefits the company is paying, those are payed into in the basic work week. Sometimes if the benefit package is very good OT can be very minimal over a basic wage. I know companies that have offset shifts, were you work Sunday-Thursday or Tuesday-Saturday to ovoid the OT pay.

I would also like to see Dealers open on Sunday. I never really knew why they aren't until I looked it up.

[RedTanRT/10]

The law in TX regarding dealers is highly supported by the TADA, their dealer association. Unless you are on the boarder of another state it doesn't hurt sales. For most other states a 7 day week just spreads their sales over 7 days instead of 6. Many consumers favor the law since they can walk the lots without the pressure of a salesman. Also, dealers have the option of opening Saturday or Sunday, but not both. Most dealers open on Saturday.

[Troublemaker]

I do understand your frustration of wanting a blue and white, and being required to buy a fully loaded GTS when it sounds like an SRT is much closer to what you are looking for. The good news is that deals can be had on LEs, if you really want it. Someone posted that there's a dealer here in CA that is offering an LE for $20K off MSRP, in San Diego I believe. I would think that LEs are being sold at good discounts all over, as there are quite a few unsold. You can have the car shipped in an enclosed trailer for about $1000 - $2000, depending upon how far away you live from the dealer. Or call John Gastman at Roanoke and see if he's able to get an LE for you, he trades with other dealers regularly. In fact, I got my Stryker Red indirectly from Roanoke when my dealer traded John for another Viper (it happened to be my dealer's LE, believe it or not). I don't think you'll get a deep discount with Roanoke, but you'll get a stand up guy that knows Vipers.

I'm not at all a fan of Pirellis either. You could sell the Pirellis and put Michelins on. I'm about to buy Michelins to replace my worn out Pirelli Corsas on my track wheels.

I appreciate the advice. I don't want to come off a a jerk and sound like I don't like the car, because I honestly want one. But every car I have purchased new in the last 10 years has been special ordered because I am very picky about what I want. It's the fact that I can't order the car exactly the way I want it to be really drives me nuts, the computer is a topic for another thread and has been brought up repeatedly. If I found a GTS with an SRT hood at SRT in B&W I would be all over it, but I do not want to pay the upcharges for parts I am going to take off. This seems like an easy fix for a car that is built the way they build them at CAAP.

I still stand my ground that the GTS should have never existed and the Base SRT should have been the only model. Then have a giant list of check boxes and order the exact car you want. You also should be able to pick your car up at the factory, that's something that they should have never changed. To me this whole thing is fixable and shouldn't be relatively hard.

It reminds me of the line from Mr. Mom, " You're doing it wrong."

Like I said earlier, it's not that the new car doesn't fit me, it probably that I don't fit the car.

[ViperGeorge]

I wish I could browse pictures and specs of every car that exists at any dealer in the country. If I buy one I want it the way I want it. I am not just going to buy one from a local dealer because they happen to have one. I've tried Autotrader but they don't even have pictures of every car. They have a lot of stock photos that aren't even the same color as the car described. There were so many ways to build the cars that there could be a dealer somewhere that is sitting on the exact car I'd want. Problem is there is no easy way to find it. The drivesrt.com site can't help either. This is really stupid. There are hundreds of cars out there but trying to find the exact one is impossible. If you order one it takes forever to get. Confounding.

[SmoknTires]

Ralph may have put some words together that may not have been to the benefit of the Viper but, what I do know, is he is just like any of us here who would love more than to see the Viper and the brand where it should be. At the top of the food chain. The only difference between us and him is,

1. He had the money, balls and backup, to keep the brand alive.

2. His hands are tied as his last name is neither FIAT nor Chrysler,

3. If uncertain about your question, see above.

He is human just like us, with a passion for a car that he actually stuck his neck out a lot more than any of us here would have ever even thought about. Again, I , as well as many of you, have our opinions on what is going on over there. But, unfortunately we are not there. We are over here where it is safe, cheap and easy to make assumptions and opinions which we have no facts or figures to figure out. Between Fiat, Chrysler, himself, the SRT team, the Viper community, dealerships and the media, they all have made mistakes. Just as you and I have. You guys actually think Ralph would have hated to see a 700 HP car and sales that hit the roof ?! Of course he would. He's a car guy people. He wants everything we want and more ! That unfortunately is easier said then done.

You're right on the money with everything you said.

[Russ Oasis]

What SlitherV and SmokinTires said.

[05Commemorative]

I appreciate the advice. I don't want to come off a a jerk and sound like I don't like the car, because I honestly want one. But every car I have purchased new in the last 10 years has been special ordered because I am very picky about what I want. It's the fact that I can't order the car exactly the way I want it to be really drives me nuts, the computer is a topic for another thread and has been brought up repeatedly. If I found a GTS with an SRT hood at SRT in B&W I would be all over it, but I do not want to pay the upcharges for parts I am going to take off. This seems like an easy fix for a car that is built the way they build them at CAAP.

I still stand my ground that the GTS should have never existed and the Base SRT should have been the only model. Then have a giant list of check boxes and order the exact car you want. You also should be able to pick your car up at the factory, that's something that they should have never changed. To me this whole thing is fixable and shouldn't be relatively hard.

It reminds me of the line from Mr. Mom, " You're doing it wrong."

Like I said earlier, it's not that the new car doesn't fit me, it probably that I don't fit the car.

I was following everything you say except why no GTS. What is the problem with it just being a higher end package? especially if you just want the cheaper options in the colors you want?

ordering different tire brands though is a bit excessive. how many cars have you purchases with that option? I do get the point of having options though, just not with getting rid of the GTS option.

[99RT10]

Wait till Christmas or New Years. And if they have 2013 when the 2015s come out, fire sale. $30-40k off invoice.

Loaded GTS for 99K:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37066&endYear=2014&modelCode1=SRTVIPER&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&makeCode1=SRT&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BSRT%5BSRTVIPER%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=348965142&Log=0

[F2V]

Loaded GTS for 99K:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37066&endYear=2014&modelCode1=SRTVIPER&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&makeCode1=SRT&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BSRT%5BSRTVIPER%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=348965142&Log=0

Wow, 35% off list is a kick in the arse, even if it may be an original demo. Can't say it wasn't predicted a few months ago by some, but for those of us who ordered at jump street...disheartening, but not the end of the world.

[VENOM V]

Wow, 35% off list is a kick in the arse, even if it may be an original demo. Can't say it wasn't predicted a few months ago by some, but for those of us who ordered at jump street...disheartening, but not the end of the world.

Agreed, but unless you see this trend all over, this is likely an anomoly. The dealers I've talked to can't imagine deciding to lose that much money on a Viper, despite soft sales. I'd bet I couldn't find a single dealer in CA that would come anywhere near matching that discount.

[Ev1E9]

Here is why I feel zero sorrow for dealers. They have been sitting on this car near me for 6 months now.

They can eat the loss for all I care

http://i.imgur.com/amuBPct.png

Even if it is a fat finger mistake - you can't be making mistakes like that.

That's got to be at a Koon's dealership!!!

[Policy Limits]

Haha. Well that's the first V I've seen listed in the 5 figures!

What's that like 25k below invoice?

Feel bad for the suckers who paid big premium; even MSRP price is painful at this point. How many 13's remain unsold? 150?

[boostsaves]

Loaded GTS for 99K:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37066&endYear=2014&modelCode1=SRTVIPER&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&makeCode1=SRT&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BSRT%5BSRTVIPER%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=348965142&Log=0

I have a deposit down on that car

[Policy Limits]

Good time to buy. I negotiated the purchase and sale of my gallardo spyder in February one winter and got a good deal.

Only frustrating thing will be waiting for the snow to clear so u can drive it!

[Jack B]

Smart and lucky both


I have a deposit down on that car

[Policy Limits]

With 2013 ending in two weeks, does anyone have updated numbers on how many units made & sold?

Last I heard there were 805 units made and 600 sold. Is this correct?

[RedTanRT/10]

With 2013 ending in two weeks, does anyone have updated numbers on how many units made & sold?

Last I heard there were 805 units made and 600 sold. Is this correct?

At November month end they reported; 1,338 built, 536 US retail sales (41 in November).

[VRYALT3R3D]

At November month end they reported; 1,338 built, 536 US retail sales (41 in November).

581 including Canadian market cars.

[RedTanRT/10]

At November month end they reported; 1,338 built, 536 US retail sales (41 in November).

On December 1st, 700 vipers reported in US dealer inventory