To swap... Or not to swap...

[Vombomb]

not talking about swinging so calm down... So lately, it stopped raining enough for me to get harassed by almost every damn modified car on the road, so needless to say I've been laying down the law... However, my shifting is ATTROCIOUS to say the least, and I'm hoping it's just shot engine/transmission mounts, because otherwise I'm swapping a TR6060.

WOT shifts are impossible, let's just get that straight now, there's such a delay trying to wrestle this Russian tank stick shift that I had to freaking rev match on an up shift because I had been coasting for so long... I've had maybe 5-6 manual sports cars, so I'm decent at going fast, but am in no way a pro, but DAMN some of these miss shifts are aggravating as hell.

I talked to Paul a little about woodhouse mounts, I'm just afraid of vibration, as I drivd this car every chance I get. It's either that, or the 6060. Money isn't an object BUT no one likes spending money if they don't need to.

Anyone want to weigh in on this? I realize there have been some threads about this in the Gen I/II forums, so please don't yell at me and tell me to "search function is your friend loltard!" Lol

[Mr White]

slow is smooth
smooth is fast
fast is lethal

This is my terrible point of view. It seems like the biggest problem shifting, is the offset from the centerline. The geometry just sucks.

Switching over seems like you're still in the same goofy boat.

[C.J]

OP, how many miles do you have on your '03?

[repiV]

Let another Viper owner drive it and see if it's you or the car? I've only had mine a few weeks but I haven't had any issues shifting on the few occasions so far that I've really pushed it to see what it would do. :drive:

[Steve M]

First, make sure it isn't something simple like your clutch hydraulics not fully releasing the clutch - you can test this by putting the car on a flat surface, pushing the clutch in, and bringing the revs up (car in gear, of course). If the car starts moving, your clutch isn't releasing. There could be a few different causes, but I'd start with bleeding the clutch hydraulic fluid first...that's the Achilles heel of these systems. If that doesn't work, it could be the clutch. Beyond that, you'd probably need to start looking at the transmission.

The only T-56 I experienced was the one in my 2002 Camaro - it was a "built" unit, but even with that, it never shifted as nicely at WOT as this TR-6060 does in my '08. I'm a big fan of this transmission, no doubt about it.

[Vprbite]

I find there is a sweet spot with clutching when shifting. Clutch in too deep and they aren't perfectly smooth. Not sure if that makes a difference here. I will say, I recently changed my clutch fluid out though it wasn't that old. Maybe 11k miles and it made a huge difference.

Also, at WOT these cars are laying down a lot of torque so there is going to be some definite twisiting involved. I'm not putting out as much power as you but I was playing with bullet bike the other day and didn't miss any shifts. That being said, accelerating onto the freeway yesterday was going full bore in second and missed my shift into third. Didn't get another gear, just knew that I wasn't hitting third and was a smidge off so I had to coast for a moment and then get third. I don't think that was the car, just me not being on the top of my shifitng game and making a mistake. So, it may be some adjusting to the feel of driving such a torque monster is due. You did say you haven't been able to drive it much because of the weather.

Make sure fluids are current before anything else. Then, if you do swap some things out. Jon B, IIRC, recommends stock motor mounts and poly trans mounts to clean up your shifts and avoid the paint shaker effect (which our cars have enough of already.) talk to him about that but I recall him saying that I think. Of course, then there is changing the trans but as you said, may as well do simple and cheap first.

[Vprbite]

not talking about swinging so calm down... . Hey now, let's not take anything off the table here. I mean, just keep our options open is all I am saying.

[Vombomb]

Soooo the site just went weird and won't let me quote people, so summary:

Mr. White: I agree, however I do shifting drills in the driveway to try and eliminate pulling to one side while shifting.

C.J.: 23565 miles

Steve M: Would a clutch issues show up also when trying to put it in gear from a flat surface, aka putting all your body behind putting it into first or reverse?

Vprbite: I just had the trans fluid, engine oil and diff fluid changed, and didn't even THINK to change the damn clutch and brake fluids... But yeah I've had missed shifts before but nothing like feeling like you're trying to push the lever into solid metal...

I'm hoping it's something as simple as a fluid flush/change or even just a flywheel/clutch swap, because all the money I'd be spending on a 6060, I'd rather put into the motor :p

[ACRucrazy]

6060.

[Vprbite]

Catch fluid first. Then call or email Jon B about the mounts. I have heard of Gen IVs going into limp mode with the all poly mounts because of all the shake. See what Jon recommends before you have to drop the coin on a new transmission.

Are you sure your stock mounts aren't just worn out? That could make a difference for sure.

[Vombomb]

Catch fluid first. Then call or email Jon B about the mounts. I have heard of Gen IVs going into limp mode with the all poly mounts because of all the shake. See what Jon recommends before you have to drop the coin on a new transmission.

Are you sure your stock mounts aren't just worn out? That could make a difference for sure.

If it didn't take 3 guys and a cheater bar to get it into first and reverse sometimes, I'd be all on board the mounts train... I'm gonna check them anyways, they could be PART of the problem, just maybe not the whole problem.

[Roddy]

That doesn't sound right. How's the transmission fluid? Metal particulate? Sounds like syncros or a bent shift fork maybe.. Outside of that the clutch

[PaulP]

Put your car in neutral and rev it! watch the shifter move rapidly, until you get woodhouse mounts then its planted very well stable, i had the same issue last year
i have had lots of vehicles never missed shifts like in a viper at WOT, at WOT it moves over so much can't get it into gear, thought my trans was done!, i talked to jonb he sold me a spec 3+ clutch, fedinza flywheel, clutch slave, etc, woodhouse trans mount and engine mounts, he did say i may get a buzz from the mounts and that they give more of a vibration, no buzz, vibration minimal, its a race car on the street guys come on, i installed the mounts fixed my problem now have the clutch and flywheel for spares, can bang out shifts at WOT with out a issue, can shift with confidence when racing, great product.

[V3NOMOUS]

Reverse lockout solenoid might be acting up itself or a short from the O2 wiring as I believe they're on the same circuit.

[The_Greg]

When my mounts were bad... and I mean bad you could watch the shifter jumping around under various throttle loads with the twist of the engine as it tried to jump out of the hood. So, if you don't have a 'moving target' when shifting, it might not be the mounts. But, you'll probably want to upgrade the mounts anyways because of the above picture. That's from a 45k mile stock 06. They will not last forever. I have woodhouse mounts in now, and to be concerned with the small amount of vibration they cause when you're driving a freaking 8.3L V10 is a little silly. You can see here the mounts are completely sheared and providing ZERO actual connection outside of gravity:
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/v/t1.0-9/555503_610819745696_188476899_n.jpg?oh=972853cf286 001752f00fd2076b3ce57&oe=559A6B6E

[Steve M]

Steve M: Would a clutch issues show up also when trying to put it in gear from a flat surface, aka putting all your body behind putting it into first or reverse?

Issues getting the car into gear do point towards clutch engagement/disengagement problems.

[ViperGeorge]

This is NOT normal. My 03 and 06 both shifted fine and the 06 was supercharged and both cars were tracked. I regularly shifted at speed into higher gears with absolutely no problems. Something ain't right. I would think a clutch problem would result in grinding when shifting. Does pedal feel normal? Is it soft or does it feel like a limp noodle? It was not uncommon for Gen 3/4s to boil clutch fluid resulting in air in the system and a limp pedal. More common on Gen 4s though. My 08 Vert had the problem after only 500 miles. Maybe clutch wasn't bled correctly but it still seems there is something else more wrong. Could be broken mounts resulting in bad alignment of shifter or it could be something broken in trans. If trans is broken then I might consider an upgrade to a 6060 but the T-56 was IMO a damn good tranny.

[Vombomb]

This is NOT normal. My 03 and 06 both shifted fine and the 06 was supercharged and both cars were tracked. I regularly shifted at speed into higher gears with absolutely no problems. Something ain't right. I would think a clutch problem would result in grinding when shifting. Does pedal feel normal? Is it soft or does it feel like a limp noodle? It was not uncommon for Gen 3/4s to boil clutch fluid resulting in air in the system and a limp pedal. More common on Gen 4s though. My 08 Vert had the problem after only 500 miles. Maybe clutch wasn't bled correctly but it still seems there is something else more wrong. Could be broken mounts resulting in bad alignment of shifter or it could be something broken in trans. If trans is broken then I might consider an upgrade to a 6060 but the T-56 was IMO a damn good tranny.

Clutch feel is fine, nice and firm, gave me a good workout yesterday in rush hour traffic :furious: I'm going to have the clutch fluid replaced, and take a look at the trans mount, but I just feel at this point I'm going to see what kind of deal I can get on a 6060 swap. I'll go that route for now, instead of forging my motor, so I'll have to live with only 600rwhp. First world problems.