Side sill fasteners

[slysnake]

If you've ever taken your side sills off you know that the under car screws will ream out the holes if you tighten them too tight. I have a couple like that. So my thought was to replace those with a slightly larger screw. But here's my concern/question.

The side sills are aluminum and I guess the underside of the car where they connect must be aluminum too, otherwise it wouldn't ream out so easily. What are the screws made out of? I don't think they're aluminum. If I replace them with a steel screw will it cause corrosion?

[Steve M]

I'd look into Rivnuts...just don't know what size you'd need.

[FLATOUT]

I'd look into Rivnuts...just don't know what size you'd need.

Re did all of them on my gen 3 with riv nuts and it finally fixed the problem. Sadly this poor design has carried all the way through to the gen V.

[Steve M]

Re did all of them on my gen 3 with riv nuts and it finally fixed the problem. Sadly this poor design has carried all the way through to the gen V.

What size did you use?

[FrgMstr]

Surebonder makes a tool with the dies for setting the threaded rivet inserts. It is a cheap tool, but gets the job done. Bent the handle on mine cranking on it too hard. I got mine locally at Northern Tool, but this is it on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-8510-10-24-Threaded-Insert/dp/B0003J2B5A/?tag=hardfocom-20).

Use 1/4"-20 inserts (sold separately). (http://www.amazon.com/Ribbed-Rivet-Nuts-Steel-Yellow-165--260/dp/B008VGVILA/?tag=hardfocom-20)

I used domed 3/4" long fasteners with washers.

I knocked a couple of my inserts loose last week pulling the side sills, but it was my fault for using an electric driver with too much torque. Took a sharp wood chisel and popped the heads off to install a new one. Will reset all the current ones and see how that goes. The inserts will stay inside the frame rail. Have not heard a rattle yet over the exhaust, so no biggy. Figure if I hear it at some point, I will put some expanding foam in the rail. Anyway, tighten these by hand. Get some extras screws if these fall out, but at least these do not have the same chance to puncture tires.

I have done this on both my Vipers. With this mod and drilling an access hole (for a 10mm 1/4" drive deep socket) for the front side sill bolt on top, and you can pull this off easily and quickly.

http://kylebennett.com/files/kyle/viper/SideSillHolePlacement.png

[venomous08]

Surebonder makes a tool with the dies for setting the threaded rivet inserts. It is a cheap tool, but gets the job done. Bent the handle on mine cranking on it too hard. I got mine locally at Northern Tool, but this is it on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-8510-10-24-Threaded-Insert/dp/B0003J2B5A/?tag=hardfocom-20).

Use 1/4"-20 inserts (sold separately). (http://www.amazon.com/Ribbed-Rivet-Nuts-Steel-Yellow-165--260/dp/B008VGVILA/?tag=hardfocom-20)

I used domed 3/4" long fasteners with washers.

I knocked a couple of my inserts loose last week pulling the side sills, but it was my fault for using an electric driver with too much torque. Took a sharp wood chisel and popped the heads off to install a new one. Will reset all the current ones and see how that goes. The inserts will stay inside the frame rail. Have not heard a rattle yet over the exhaust, so no biggy. Figure if I hear it at some point, I will put some expanding foam in the rail. Anyway, tighten these by hand. Get some extras screws if these fall out, but at least these do not have the same chance to puncture tires.

I have done this on both my Vipers. With this mod and drilling an access hole (for a 10mm 1/4" drive deep socket) for the front side sill bolt on top, and you can pull this off easily and quickly.
http://kylebennett.com/files/kyle/viper/SideSillHolePlacement.png

These are interesting. I normally just put a dab of 3m weatherstrip adhesive or RTV. Keeps them from backing out. Do you have a link to the tool you used?

[FrgMstr]

These are interesting. I normally just put a dab of 3m weatherstrip adhesive or RTV. Keeps them from backing out. Do you have a link to the tool you used?

I got mine locally at Northern Tool, but this is it on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-8510-10-24-Threaded-Insert/dp/B0003J2B5A/?tag=hardfocom-20).

[SSGNRDZ_28]

These are interesting. I normally just put a dab of 3m weatherstrip adhesive or RTV. Keeps them from backing out. Do you have a link to the tool you used?

Yes, was going to suggest this or Loctite 242.

[FrgMstr]

Yes, was going to suggest this or Loctite 242.

If you are going to remove them once and be done, that is a great solution, otherwise it is not. Once those mount points get a bit worn, Loctite is worthless but I would guess RTV would be better. And when you pick up one of those nice sharp sheet metal screws in that expensive rear tire out in the middle of a backwoods drive, you will wish you had taken a bit more time with making it "right."

[SSGNRDZ_28]

My bad I misread and thought the screws were backing out of the inserts, did not mean to suggest loctite with the sheet metal screws. Have you tried an epoxy such as Hysol to secure the inserts and keep them from spinning?

[venomous08]

If you are going to remove them once and be done, that is a great solution, otherwise it is not. Once those mount points get a bit worn, Loctite is worthless but I would guess RTV would be better. And when you pick up one of those nice sharp sheet metal screws in that expensive rear tire out in the middle of a backwoods drive, you will wish you had taken a bit more time with making it "right."

Even if this is a one time deal I have had several on my old car and my Dad's 09 ACR back off and disappear. Same with some fasteners on the front fascia. Once you get some "clack" in the wheels on cool down laps or just buildup over a weekend it does create some weird vibrations to loosen stuff up. I am probably going to buy these and swap mine out with the header install.

[FrgMstr]

My bad I misread and thought the screws were backing out of the inserts, did not mean to suggest loctite with the sheet metal screws. Have you tried an epoxy such as Hysol to secure the inserts and keep them from spinning?

Was wondering about that Doug. You always seemed like a really smart guy to me...up until that comment! :lol2:

I never even gave Hysol or something like that a thought. It would have to be done when you installed the rivets, but that does not sound like a bad idea at all. Might give that a go on the couple that I have to replace.

Honestly though, the rivets that have failed, failed 100% due to my error in over-torquing those. I got in a hurry to get the car out of the garage and beat on them with a small Dewalt impact driver, which was just stupid. That all said, it is no big deal to replace those either. I am going to see how those inserts take to being reset with the tool however when I get the car back in a day or two.

[FrgMstr]

Even if this is a one time deal I have had several on my old car and my Dad's 09 ACR back off and disappear. Same with some fasteners on the front fascia. Once you get some "clack" in the wheels on cool down laps or just buildup over a weekend it does create some weird vibrations to loosen stuff up. I am probably going to buy these and swap mine out with the header install.

Given that I have the rivet inserts in the bottom of the side sills, I don't worry about those any more, but I retorque every other sheet metal screw on the car when I tech it for race events for SURE.

At Texas Mile in 2013 I lost a screw in the front fascia on a 180mph run. Keep in mind I checked these the day before, at the track. When it came loose I would have had some serious damage to the front, but I got really lucky. The previous owner installed a SnakeOyl Valence Guard, which is ugly as hell. Had the chin guard not been there to hold it all together it would have torn it to shit and back. The air pressure bent the guard all to hell, but I was able to hammer it all back right, with no damage to the plastic.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/3243-Looking-for-front-chin-guard-underbody?p=48239&viewfull=1#post48239

Anyway, the moral of the story is and you are exactly correct, take all those damn sheet metal screws seriously if you will be hauling ass. And keep a stubby Phillip's head in your pocket at track events. ;)

[venomous08]

Was wondering about that Doug. You always seemed like a really smart guy to me...up until that comment! :lol2:

I never even gave Hysol or something like that a thought. It would have to be done when you installed the rivets, but that does not sound like a bad idea at all. Might give that a go on the couple that I have to replace.

Honestly though, the rivets that have failed, failed 100% due to my error in over-torquing those. I got in a hurry to get the car out of the garage and beat on them with a small Dewalt impact driver, which was just stupid. That all said, it is no big deal to replace those either. I am going to see how those inserts take to being reset with the tool however when I get the car back in a day or two.

Yeah kinda think that may be the ticket for me as well. Do the Hysol and convert over to these all at once.

[FrgMstr]

Yeah kinda think that may be the ticket for me as well. Do the Hysol and convert over to these all at once.

It really is easy, just make SURE you get the exact size drill bit for the inserts you buy. They are NOT all the same.

Also, the holes are already "pre-drilled" as well. The hardest part is getting the car high enough off the ground to fit the drill under it.

[venomous08]

Have a lift so it's not a problem.

[Mr. Bill]

Just did this on mine. I also used 1/4-20 rivnuts.......be sure to get the ones with the big "lip" on them. This will help to prevent them from coming loose in the sheet metal but its not a guarantee.

I used these:
http://www.amazon.com/Ribbed-Series-Rivet-Nuts-Steel-Yellow/dp/B008VGVCPC

[AZTVR]

The side sills are aluminum and I guess the underside of the car where they connect must be aluminum too, otherwise it wouldn't ream out so easily. What are the screws made out of? I don't think they're aluminum. If I replace them with a steel screw will it cause corrosion?

So, for the op's sake: No one has answered his question. Any relevant answers?

(My car is sold, so, I don't know the answer. I also replaced mine with rivnuts after losing screws and knowing I was going to have the sills off/on several times when installing Corsa, then cat delete pipes, then hi-flow cats. I also recommend the rivnuts. It helped that I had a buddy with a pro type installation tool, so it was way cheap for me to do.)

[slysnake]

So, for the op's sake: No one has answered his question. Any relevant answers?Thank you. :) I am interested in metal on metal corrosion. Is it a concern? How can it be stopped.

But really, thanks for all the riv-nut information. it really does sound like the way to go and I think I will get that ordered. But then, those are brass or something aren't they? That's a non-magnetic metal so maybe not a problem?

[FLATOUT]

We did answer his question, they suck, don't worry about the metal on metal corrosion because they will strip and fall out before it's a major concern ;)

[FrgMstr]

Been on my car for 3 years, no galvanic corrosion issues. If you are worried, use a Teflon washer.

[FrgMstr]

Just did this on mine. I also used 1/4-20 rivnuts.......be sure to get the ones with the big "lip" on them. This will help to prevent them from coming loose in the sheet metal but its not a guarantee.

I used these:
http://www.amazon.com/Ribbed-Series-Rivet-Nuts-Steel-Yellow/dp/B008VGVCPC



Thanks for putting up this picture. I have been wanting a better tool, so I bought this one on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TODXQW/?tag=hardfocom-20). Hopefully hold up better than the cheapy one to reseat those current rivets. Certainly looks better than the picture.

[FrgMstr]

The rivnut tool from Amazon is awesome. Very well built. Reseated all the rivnuts easily. Worth every cent.