MotoIQ.com's - Project Viper GTS

[stuntman]

Hey guys,

Check out my articles on MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper

I'm trying to condense all of the information that's scattered in books and online for the Gen 2 Viper in an easy to read but technical and detailed format.


Viper GTS - Part 1 History & Intro.

While many of you already know the history of the Viper, you may find a few new tidbits of information in this article that I wrote:


"The Dodge Viper has been competitive on the world stage by doing it the American way: with big wheels, big brakes, big tires, a big engine, and not a lot of refinement. While it has always been a highly capable car on the track, used car prices have finally dropped to the point of being affordable by the masses and it has become a realistic option as a track day car. This project hopes to clarify some of the stereotypes that surround the Viper and bring the truth to light of a very cool platform."

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-rJdGnBr/0/XL/01%20Project%20Viper%20GTS%20Cover-XL.jpg

Enjoy!

- - - Updated - - -


Project Viper GTS: Part 2 - General Maintenance


"Before thoroughly enjoying the purchase of a used performance car, it’s important for the enthusiast to go through some routine maintenance items. We prepare our 1997 Viper to be driven by changing the oil, coolant, spark plugs, wires, and go through a few miscellaneous items. We then install an aftermarket temperature gauge to monitor how hot the V10 operates and to test the accuracy of the factory gauge."


https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-D5HDjJK/0/XL/0%20Cover%204E-XL.jpg


Enjoy!

[thetalonguy]

Lot's of good reading here; should be a sticky for new owners.

Looking forward to next installment.

[Fatboy 18]

Brilliant, thanks for the links :)

[GhostStalker27]

Good stuff, thanks

[stuntman]

Hey Guys, here's:


Project Viper GTS: Part 3 - Baseline Track Testing (Data & Video)


"The Viper has a reputation for being difficult to drive and even (incorrectly) known as a bad handling car. Since the 2nd Generation Viper has not been reviewed by a magazine in close to 15 years, we took Project Viper to the track to dispel some myths and assess the car’s balance and handling ability."

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-TVWfVW3/0/XL/0%20-%20Part%203%20Cover-XL.jpg

Enjoy!

[stuntman]

Hey Guys, here's:


Project Viper GTS: Part 4 – Baseline Dyno and K&N Intake Test


"The Viper is truly a car built around its engine. In Part 4, we take Project Viper GTS to the dyno for a baseline power audit and see if our mighty 8.0L V10 is cranking out the factory claimed 450hp and 490lb-ft of torque. From there we add K&N replacement air filters and change out the disruptive corrugated plastic intake tubing for a set of ROE Racing polished aluminum smooth intake tubes to see if we can squeeze out a few more ponies."

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-B8VdPzH/0/X3/0%20Cover%20Part%204-X3.jpg

Enjoy!

[duffman04]

Nice write-up! Thanks for doing the dyno comparisons. I've always wondered if there was truly a difference or if it was just hearsay.

[GhostStalker27]

This is great, I can read stuff like this all day long. Maybe I missed it - did you write about how the improved hp #'s translates to the real world? Like 1/4 mile, 0-60, lap times and even the 'feel'?

[stuntman]

Thanks guys,

Ghost - There are some math calculators out there for 1/4 mile, 0-60, etc... but I will be doing those tests in a future article as well as lap times from coilovers; although to be honest, Part 3 - baseline track testing was the least popular article of them all so-far, despite having data with braking/accel/cornering G's of a Gen 2 on modern tires.

[GhostStalker27]

Thanks guys,

Ghost - There are some math calculators out there for 1/4 mile, 0-60, etc... but I will be doing those tests in a future article as well as lap times from coilovers; although to be honest, Part 3 - baseline track testing was the least popular article of them all so-far, despite having data with braking/accel/cornering G's of a Gen 2 on modern tires.

I thought that was the best part haha, I guess most people don't track their cars so the data isn't as relevant to them.

[stuntman]

Hey Guys, here's the next installement:


Project Viper GTS: Part 5 – Radiator Fan & Wiring Upgrade


"The Viper is a “racecar for the street” in more ways than one; and like a racecar, it does not like to sit in stop and go traffic and can run hot and overheat without proper airflow on a hot summer day. To combat this we upgraded the radiator fan on our 1997 Viper GTS with the higher flowing, larger fan from the 1998-2002 cars. In addition, we safeguarded the potentially flawed wiring and relay box by running standalone relays with dedicated power and ground wires. To further extend the life of the relays we used a trick pair of “NOsparc®” spark suppressors in the harness."


In the article:

- Fan removal & installation
- 1996-1997 vs. 1998-2002 Fan analysis
- Stock & modified fan wiring schematics
- How to wire a standalone power, ground, and relays
- How to make a MIL-spec wiring harness
- NOsparc arc suppressors - to eliminate arcing and increase longevity of relay contacts.

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-X648m4Z/0/XL/0%20Part%205%20-%20Radiator%20Fan%20Cover-XL.jpg

Enjoy!

[Sybil TF]

Who sells the spark suppressors?

[My98RT10]

I believe they changed to the bigger fan already in '98 model year. I do have the larger fan in mine and I don't think it has been upgraded.

But nice story! Keep 'em coming!! ;-)

[stuntman]

Who sells the spark suppressors?
There are a few different places to get them if you google the part #: MHXDC1F012





I believe they changed to the bigger fan already in '98 model year. I do have the larger fan in mine and I don't think it has been upgraded.

But nice story! Keep 'em coming!! ;-)
According to Roe Racing's OE Parts Link: https://www.roeracing.com/OE-Parts/

...you are correct. 98-02 cars have the upgraded fan, I guess Roe's on website and theviperstore.com have it incorrectly. EDIT - Just fixed it in the article. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Sybil TF]

Nice write up by the way! I have the upgraded fan assembly in my 96 GTS. So far I haven't had any problems but I'm going to see if I can get this done. If I were to want to add another fan I guess this same set up would work?

[stuntman]

Thanks!

Yes you could use the same setup that I made, but depending on which fan you use and which circuit (LS vs HS), you may need to bump up your relay rating.

Remember that fans only help below ~45mph. If you want to improve your cooling above 45mph, an extra fan will be a restriction and HURT your airflow and cooling ability. The 98-02 fan is pretty stout on the HS mode. Do you have a SCT tune to lower the points where the LS and HS fan turns on? If you haven't, that should be your first step!

[Sybil TF]

Thanks!

Yes you could use the same setup that I made, but depending on which fan you use and which circuit (LS vs HS), you may need to bump up your relay rating.

Remember that fans only help below ~45mph. If you want to improve your cooling above 45mph, an extra fan will be a restriction and HURT your airflow and cooling ability. The 98-02 fan is pretty stout on the HS mode. Do you have a SCT tune to lower the points where the LS and HS fan turns on? If you haven't, that should be your first step!I have the old 9550 sct but I think you have to order a canned tune.

[Sybil TF]

Got those relays to upgrade from the factory ones. Nice to get ones that don't have to be altered. Now I have some spares to carry just in case. Curious, you think that arc suppressor can be used in the factory wiring? My relay box shows no sign of overheating or melting. Also who sells the thermo flect cloth?

[stuntman]

Their retail site is temporarily down, however you can also get it through a few other vendors.

Just Google: "Thermaflect Cloth" (one word, with an "A")

[dave6666]

Claiming that additional fans impede cooling is just plain retarded. I have been running my triple fan setup for years and have real life proof in a Gen 2 Viper your claim is a lie.

Why don't you generate some ECT logs and substantiate? I can.

[stuntman]

Claiming that additional fans impede cooling is just plain retarded. I have been running my triple fan setup for years and have real life proof in a Gen 2 Viper your claim is a lie.

Why don't you generate some ECT logs and substantiate? I can.
If you were paying attention, I stated that fans DO improve cooling at low speeds and when stopped, since that's the only way to get airflow through the radiator.

Once again, fans (and shrouds) in general impede cooling at speed (~above 45mph, but can vary depending on the car, how sealed the front bumper is to the radiator, etc...). That's a proven fact.

The airflow from the pressure created in front of the radiator (again, with a properly sealed radiator ducting, which the Viper and most modern cars is pretty good) is far greater than what the fan can flow, so the presence of the fan and any form of shroud becomes a restriction. This is why there are flaps on the shroud to begin with.

This is why you don't see street car style fan shrouds on racing cars, since racecars are rarely stopped and a single fan mounted to the radiator face itself is enough to cool the car under yellow, in traffic, or during a pit stop while (more importantly) not restricting flow at speed.

NASCAR (Cup & Xfinity) teams constantly test their cooling systems and they have found significant cooling gains by removing the fan, however it's not worth it to not have the fan when drafting or during yellows and pit stops, which is why they continue to run a single fan mounted to the radiator.

0.02

[City]

Stuntman,

Please understand that we have no issue with the posting of your articles, but your linking them in the forum is a problem. By all means, feel free to copy and paste the articles and information into this thread (or elsewhere in the forum) sans links to commercial websites.

Thanks.

[stuntman]

Posts have been edited with the links removed.

[Kari_Lindstrom]

My GTS with build date from october 1998 has the older and smaller fan...

[GBS]

Nice write ups on website! Thanks for posting the info!

[My98RT10]

My GTS with build date from october 1998 has the older and smaller fan...

Interesting... my RT/10 was build in November. However, from the parts catalog of the 98 modelyear there is only one fan assembly listed and that is the larger one also used in 99 (if you compare the p/n). However, they did not update the drawing of this piece in the catalog, so visually it is the old one...

[stuntman]

My GTS with build date from october 1998 has the older and smaller fan...
Interesting... Maybe they had old fans still laying around and used them in 98 before switching?

Anyone else with a 98 Viper who can chime in with the fan they have on their car?


Nice write ups on website! Thanks for posting the info!
Glad you liked them :)

[stuntman]

Hey guys,

The next article of Project Viper is up: Project VIPER GTS: Part 6 - Corsa Performance Exhaust and Kooks Green Cats


You can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper

"After some impressive gains from intake work in Part 4, we now turn our attention to the opposite side of the engine to improve the evacuation of exhaust gasses as well as reduce the cabin temperature of our notoriously hot viper. For as outlandish and attention grabbing the Viper’s style was, the exhaust note did not have the same head-turning appeal. To remedy this we reached out to our friends at Corsa Performance for their 3” cat-back exhaust to give our viper a more sporty and refined tone. To further boost the volume and greatly knock down the calf-burning side sill heat, we installed a pair of compact Kooks Green Cats which are both environmentally and power friendly. "

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-JnbQXfG/0/XL/1%20Exhaust%20Cover-XL.jpg

In the article:

-Removal of the OEM exhaust
-Installation of the CORSA PERFORMANCE 3" Exhaust
-Installation of the KOOKS "Green Cats"
-Dyno Results of Corsa/Kooks exhaust
-Upload Roe Racing Tune
-Dyno Results of the Roe Tune
-Video comparing the stock exhaust with rear muffler delete vs. the Corsa / Kooks HFC setup



Enjoy!

[71firebird400]

Wow, would not have guessed that the high-flow cats and Corsa would net you anywhere near that increase. Thanks for the articles! I really enjoy them.

[GhostStalker27]

Those are crazy good numbers. I have similar mods, a little more even...never had it on a dyno but from everything I read on the forums I assumed I was in the 430-440 rwhp ballpark. But I'll stick with what you got now haha

[stuntman]

There's a lot of heresay on the forums so I'm trying to dispel all the unknowns and myths in my articles. I'm surprised too at the gains but they are back to back with no other mods and trying to make things as consistent as possible.

Keep in mind a Mustang dyno will generally read lower than Dynojet. Glad you guys enjoy the articles :)

[GhostStalker27]

A friend of mine got a new Saleen mustang (625hp), we did a couple of runs and I pulled him every time. We were a little surprised. But this data helps make sense of it..

Viper
Read the article for rwhp with similar mods
vs
Saleen
625hp = Roughly 540rwhp

And when you factor in weight 3,700lbs to 3,400lbs it makes even more sense...and when you add me behind the wheel..even more sense :cool:

[ViperTim]

Amazing power from such little modifications.
This weekend I'm picking up my dream car, a '98 GTS, silver with blie stripes.
It's got pretty much same mods as yours. K&N filter, Belanger headers, corsa exhaust from the headers and back.
Wonder if I would get similar power as yours or if I would be way off.

Maybe a roe racing tune will be the first thing I get for the car.
Later on Im planning on porting heads and intake.

[stuntman]

I'd love to do a A-B header comparison but from some research, I don't think it'll be more than 10whp and that's not worth the extra heat issues. I'd guess you to be more than my car depending on your wheel/tire size.

I may do a 1.7rr test in the future. I'd love to get some ported heads as well.

[EricMcClellan]

I'd like to see you do the K&N filter kit over just the filter and smooth tubes.

I have both, stock, stock with smooth tubes and the K&N filter kit (tubes and filters).

[Double0fox]

Love reading these. Love the attention to detail. Please keep them coming.

[BrianACR]

What a great read!!!! I've been looking at doing some 'small' mods like what you did to that Viper. Now I know for sure I want to do them if I can get that kind of power gain! Thanks for the great info, keep it up!

[GTS Warp]

Yeah your articles are awesome dude! Looking forward to more. Keep em coming. :United_States:

[stuntman]

Thank you all for the feedback, im glad to hear youre enjoying the articles :)


I'd like to see you do the K&N filter kit over just the filter and smooth tubes.

I have both, stock, stock with smooth tubes and the K&N filter kit (tubes and filters).
Were you one of the guys who was interested in buying mine?

[MH60M]

Hurry up with the heat-shielding article. That's the one we actually need.

[EricMcClellan]

Thank you all for the feedback, im glad to hear youre enjoying the articles :)


Were you one of the guys who was interested in buying mine?

Nope. I have one sitting on my shelf. :)

[stuntman]

The wait is over for the next installment covering the heat shielding:

Project VIPER GTS: Part 7 – HeatShield Products


You can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper


"From coolant to cabin temperatures, Vipers are notoriously hot due to having one of the largest engines ever stuffed inside a sportscar. To combat this problem we turn to the thermal insulation experts at HeatShield Products to keep the heat in the exhaust system to lower the temperature inside the cabin and side sills. Hopefully we will prevent our side sills from discoloring and burning our legs when getting in and out of the car without proper clothing and ingress/egress technique. "

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-T5qQM2J/0/X3/1%20Part%207%20Heat%20Shield%20Cover-X3.jpg


In the article:

-HeatShield Products: HP Stickyshield - covering the side sills and chassis
-HeatShield Products: HeatShield Armor - wrapping the exhaust pipes
-HeatShield Products: LavaShield - Carbon fiber looking heat shielding made of crushed volcanic rock (works better than the 'gold' foil).
-Temperature differences of the above products


Enjoy!

[ViperTim]

Great article!
Love very single article you've written about the Viper and all of the modifications are things I've either done or will do. And heat insulation is next in line (almost).

[71firebird400]

Thanks for the update; I've really enjoyed the series of articles you've produced.

[98RedGTS]

Thanks for the new article. Was informative and something I'm interested in.

I have no problem being the dumb person in the room so I'm going to ask these:

1 - Isn't their an inherent risk to adding heat shielding? I thought I had read that some of these products could cause additional corrosion problems and could also pose additional fire hazards. Guessing this isn't an issue with the Corsa exhaust due to the material but on the factory exhaust, would it be a problem?

2 - Why not just remove the factory heat shielding and then double up on the new shielding. Seems as though the problem with the factory shielding distorting would still be an issue and the extra shielding would now be more likely to come in contact with the exhaust.

3 - The shielding is adhesive backed. I haven't found to much out there in the market these days that the adhesive last for very long. You know what testing was done to make sure things don't start coming loose after several heat cycles?

Sorry for the dumb questions. I'm new to heat shielding and want to make sure I know what I'm getting into for the long haul. I don't want to do something for temporary gain that may cause problems down the road.

[98RedGTS]

Dang double post

[dave6666]

The factory heat shielding works perfectly fine as is. It's the stupid stuff people do to their cars like adding more or by thinking they are smarter than the factory engineers that starts the downward spiral of heat related failure. I drive my car in 110+ degree heat and have zero heat related problems. All with the OEM heat shields. Nothing more.

[stuntman]

Thanks Tim & Firebird! I'm glad you guys are enjoying the articles.


Thanks for the new article. Was informative and something I'm interested in.

I have no problem being the dumb person in the room so I'm going to ask these:

1 - Isn't their an inherent risk to adding heat shielding? I thought I had read that some of these products could cause additional corrosion problems and could also pose additional fire hazards. Guessing this isn't an issue with the Corsa exhaust due to the material but on the factory exhaust, would it be a problem?

2 - Why not just remove the factory heat shielding and then double up on the new shielding. Seems as though the problem with the factory shielding distorting would still be an issue and the extra shielding would now be more likely to come in contact with the exhaust.

3 - The shielding is adhesive backed. I haven't found to much out there in the market these days that the adhesive last for very long. You know what testing was done to make sure things don't start coming loose after several heat cycles?

Sorry for the dumb questions. I'm new to heat shielding and want to make sure I know what I'm getting into for the long haul. I don't want to do something for temporary gain that may cause problems down the road.
Those are great questions and that's what this thread is for! I'll answer them below:



1 - Isn't their an inherent risk to adding heat shielding? I thought I had read that some of these products could cause additional corrosion problems and could also pose additional fire hazards. Guessing this isn't an issue with the Corsa exhaust due to the material but on the factory exhaust, would it be a problem?
It depends on the product, but not really. HeatShield Armor & StickyShield is made of fire retardant silica (armor) and fiberglass (stickyshield). You can take a torch directly to the insulation for hours and it will not ignite. As mentioned in the MotoIQ article, I don't like the idea of opening up the side sills or drilling holes in the bottom to vent them, because THAT can cause a fire hazzard from debris and grass getting shoved into the side sill and burnt by the exhaust. I've seen side-exhaust Vipers, Vettes, and Aston Martins catch grass on fire that got stuck in their side sills after going off the track. For me this wasn't a solution.

As far as corrosion goes, yes there is a documented issue with old-school header wrap type heat shielding holding in moisture and especially salt in northern-driven cars increasing corrosion. This was historically a common problem on older hotrods and pre 90's cars with mild steel exhausts with no anti-corrosive coatings when using header wrap. Modern cars and high quality exhausts now use stainless steel which is a lot more durable than mild steel, but header wrap has still caused some issues, albeit less than mild steel.

Old-School header wrap was often installed 'wet', where people would soak the wrap thinking it would 'shrink-fit' onto the exhaust (which is a misconception). This is not a good idea for obvious reasons, but having a woven fabric would collect water, salt, dirt, and debris and has led to a lot of problems.

Heatshield Armor is different from common header wrap because it's insulation is made of silica and not fiberglass, and it has a watertight, strong, protective aluminum outer casing that repels dirt, debis, salt, and water. When installed properly with trimmed edges like in the MotoIQ article, it would be very difficult for the water to reach the insulation due to the outer aluminum 'shield'. The little bit that might get to the silica insulation will be burned off quickly compared to a completely soaked wrap.

HeatShield products has commercial diesel trucks using HeatShield Armor for nearly a decade. These trucks need to be pressure washed regularly for their highway patrol inspections. You can hit Armor with a pressure washer and not have an issue. While hitting the heat shield directly at 3,000psi isn't a good idea, 1,000 psi a few inches away hasn't been a problem.



2 - Why not just remove the factory heat shielding and then double up on the new shielding. Seems as though the problem with the factory shielding distorting would still be an issue and the extra shielding would now be more likely to come in contact with the exhaust.
You could do that and we would have, but at the time I didn't have enough StickyShield to do the entire side sill, and I just did the area around the Cat -which is the only area I didn't cover with the Armor. Since that article, I've seen some OEM applications that do wrap the Cat in heat shielding, so I guess my thoughts of wrapping the cat being bad maybe is wrong.

I wanted to keep the OEM heat shielding at the time and put StickyShield on the OEM as the second layer, but two layers of StickyShield may be even better. From the results that we've seen, the Stickyshield and armor should greatly reduce the heat that the OEM sheilding sees, so it shouldn't warp and distort. None of the heat shielding touches the chassis and we will be doing a long-term review on the heat shielding, especially since its so easy to remove the side sills.



3 - The shielding is adhesive backed. I haven't found to much out there in the market these days that the adhesive last for very long. You know what testing was done to make sure things don't start coming loose after several heat cycles?
If the shielding does not do its job and the adhesive backing gets to the point of its failure, then yes it will not last long. HSP has tested their HP StickyShield for years to ensure the heatshield does its job and the adhesive backing does not fail.

The Shelby GT350R-C racecar that I drive has had StickyShield on it for close to 2 seasons now, with a 1,000*F+ cat an inch away and the adhesive backing has yet to fail from the heat or by being drenched in rain races. It's actually quite sticky and the aluminum construction is contoured to the chassis and holds its shape and itself in place. For the Viper's C-shaped outer side sill, the aluminum StickyShield actually held itself in place when mock-fitting it. With the adhesive backing, it's not going anywhere.




The factory heat shielding works perfectly fine as is. It's the stupid stuff people do to their cars like adding more or by thinking they are smarter than the factory engineers that starts the downward spiral of heat related failure. I drive my car in 110+ degree heat and have zero heat related problems. All with the OEM heat shields. Nothing more.
As expected. Whatever is different or challenges what Dave has done is absolutely wrong and stupid. :lol2:

I love how Dave always makes claims and states how well his car runs but he does not elaborate on all of the things he has done to to make it work. The reason his OEM heat shields are fine on HIS car is because he does not run cats, and he has significantly vented his side sills by opening up the front and back sides of the side sills and cut a bunch of large holes on the underside of the side sill.

As stated in the article, the OEM cats are huge, restrictive, and create a ton of heat, which is why the OEM heat shields burn and warp. Removing the cats obviously removes this heat source and venting the side sill further improves airflow and reduces heat soak. Since i'm running cats and I don't want water, dirt, and potential fire causing debris inside my side sill, and since I didn't want to hack up my side sill, this was not an option for me.

The biggest problem with a lot of factory components, especially the insulation (generally speaking), is the bean counters. Engineering may have a cool solution but the bean counters get in there and mess it up, which is understandable because the OEM’s need to keep costs down. If a component meets their minimum standards, rarely will a more expensive and better option be chosen. For the Viper, there was pretty low standards on a lot of components and obviously heat shielding was one of them due to all of the complaints from owners.


Conclusion:

-I wouldn't recommend the old-school header wrap on anything. Actually HSP sells wrap but recommends their Armor over the wrap for the above reasons.

-I probably wouldn't recommend wrapping a cheap mild-steel exhaust even in Armor, although I would recommend using StickyShield on the chassis-side of the car.

-High flow cats and especially removing them altogether makes a huge difference in heat.

-For this MotoIQ article, we were dealing with in-cabin and side-sill heat, not addressing the exhaust manifolds or headers which can get up to around 1,000*F. The heat near the flex pipe was 630*F which the armor knocked down to 210*F, while the heat of the exhaust by the diff was 210*F and the Armor knocked it down to 120*F -not much above the 95*F ambient day. These temps are fairly low and far from the failure point of adhesives, but have made a big difference in the temperature of the sill and inside the car.


0.02

[MH60M]

I got enough HP StickyShield to coat the entire inside of my new sills. I installed it directly to the sills and tossed my burnt out and trashed stock shielding. The frame side shielding was burnt and discolored too. I put a layer of HP StockyShield over it. I'll do the full frame next time......I ran out of material.

My factory shielding was also very bulky, taking up any air-space that was in the sill, not allowing deflection/reflection or dissipation of heat.

I removed the clogged cats and installed Moroso "Spiral Flow" mufflers. After idling in the driveway for 30min, the sills are still ice cold.

I'd like to add ventilation to the front or bottom of the sills to maximize cooling, but I haven't needed it yet. I also don't race or plan to go "off-track"....not too worried about debris.

I can't imagine the OEM 1992 fiberglass shielding is anywhere near as good as the HP StickyShield......If so, I'll see soon enough.

[stuntman]

I got enough HP StickyShield to coat the entire inside of my new sills. I installed it directly to the sills and tossed my burnt out and trashed stock shielding. The frame side shielding was burnt and discolored too. I put a layer of HP StockyShield over it. I'll do the full frame next time......I ran out of material.

My factory shielding was also very bulky, taking up any air-space that was in the sill, not allowing deflection/reflection or dissipation of heat.

I removed the clogged cats and installed Moroso "Spiral Flow" mufflers. After idling in the driveway for 30min, the sills are still ice cold. I'd like to add ventilation to the front or bottom of the sills to maximize cooling, but I haven't needed it yet.

I cant imagine the OEM 1992 fiberglass shielding is anywhere near as good as the HP StickyShield......If so, I'll see soon enough.
Please feel free to post here and keep us updated! I'm sure with no cats and HP StickyShield, your car will run very cool like mine, probably cooler.

[98RedGTS]

MH60M - Thanks for your feedback. Do you feel one layer was enough and that doubling up wouldn't net needed results? Right now my car isn't to bad. Inside the AC keeps things cool but when I get out I've burnt my leg a couple of times (I'm kind of short). Just trying to cut down on that and also help keep the cabin a bit cooler in stop and go driving.

Stuntman - Thanks for the answers. I'm still in the research phase so that info helps. I know I'm going to go with an aftermarket exhaust at this point. I don't have any exhaust shops around that I trust with my car so I may not do cats as it looks like that's not really a DIY project and I don't know how to weld. I thought about going catless but we have emission testing where I live not to mention I don't really care for the extra stink.

[stuntman]

Where do you live?

If you look at the temps in the article you can see how hot my sills are getting. I have not burned myself since. Also keep in mind the ambient temperature is in the 90's and if I just measure the temp of the upper rear fender, the bodywork (nowhere near the exhaust) is 110*+

There's nothing wrong with doubling up the heat shielding, but 1 layer has been enough for MH60M and myself, but for the added $ of material, You won't get another 20-70*F drop, you may only get 1-10*F. If that's worth the price for you then go for it! HFC's or test pipes will also help a ton.

[98RedGTS]

I live in Round Rock, Texas (just north of Austin). In the summer, afternoon temps are regularly 100+. Not to mention it feels like our parking lots, ops I mean highways, are always stop and go and full of traffic.

[stuntman]

There should be a ton of fabricators around there that can weld on the Kooks Green Cat. It's a pretty simple install and removing the sill is quick and easy.

If all else fails, you can go to A.S.S. or the "Ass-Monkey" guys ;)

[98RedGTS]

Oh, there are tuns of shops around that will do exhaust work. Problem is finding one that does good quality work. The last several I've used were idiots and got real pissed when I was asking them questions about their work. Crap welds and mis-allignement is the norm....

[stuntman]

Then go to:

CJ Wilson Racing
8112 Ferguson Cutoff
Austin, TX 78724

CJ owns (actually selling) a Gen 5 ACR and they service a lot of customer cars. They could easily do the install and I would trust them with my car.

[98RedGTS]

Thanks. I'll check them out when the time comes.

One last question (hopefully). How much material is needed to do both sides of the sills and the recommended parts? I keep seeing people say they didn't get enough so I'm curious on how much is needed. I don't think I'll wrap the exhaust if I wind up being able to go with HF cats. I'm thinking I'll be good with just replacing the factory stuff with this shielding.

[MH60M]

I used 2 complete Kits of HP Sticky Shield #180025 (0.125 thk x 36 in x 47 in) I could've used a little more for the frame side. I didn't get to cover the chassis like Stuntman's pics. I used my scrap pieces to patch the factory frame side shielding for now. 2" tape would help too, I used the 1" tape that came in the kit....it ran out quickly.

[stuntman]

Hey guys, the next installment of Project Viper is up:

Project VIPER GTS: Part 8 - Bob's Air-Oil Separator


You can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper


"All cars create blow-by and positive crank case pressure which forces oil and vapors into the engine's intake to be burned off for reduced emissions. This problem is worse on forced induction cars and performance cars driven at the track. Not only does this oil gunk up the intake tract and valves, it reduces the octane of your fuel which robs power and causes detonation. We installed a Bob's Air-Oil Separator to the PCV valve and a catch can for the valve cover vent to see how much oil our Viper's engine is pumping into the intake after some street and track use."


https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-pbPcr6r/0/X3/0%20Cover%20Oil%20Separator-X3.jpg


In the article:

-Installation of the Bob's Auto Sports Air-Oil Separator in the PCV system
-Installation of a catch can for the Valve Covers
-Analysis of the oil caught by the PCV & Valve Covers



Enjoy!

[ViperTim]

Great article!
You guys are giving me more and more to add to my "to-do-list" :)

[71firebird400]

Very cool to see an active project being documented so well. I appreciate the level of effort you're putting into this and hope you continue the series.

[stuntman]

Hey guys, the next installment of Project Viper is up:


Project Viper GTS: Part 9 - RareFab/Roe Racing Oil Pan Baffle Kit


You can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper


"Due to the high capabilities of the Viper, a huge strain is put on the factory oiling system on road courses and at the strip. This can cause oil starvation and a spun rod bearing. Using modern rubber can increase this risk, especially for 1996-1999 Gen-2 Vipers which have arguably the worst oil pan of any generation of Viper. To combat this problem, we upgrade to the larger 10-quart oil pan and windage tray from the 2000-2002 Vipers and install RareFab/Roe Racing's race-proven Oil Pan Baffle Kit."

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-PhSwFP4/0/X3/0%20Cover%20-%20Part%2010%20RareFab%20Baffles-X3.jpg

In the article:

-Explanation of the major problem with the Gen 2 oil pan design.
-Installation of the RareFab/Roe Racing Oil Pan Baffle Kit
-Early vs Late Gen 2 windage tray comparison
-Joe Dozzo windage tray modification
-Comparison between the Gen 1, Early (96-99) Gen 2, and Late (00-02) Gen 2 oil pans.



Enjoy!

[Boosted Motorsports]

Awesome article!

This should make it easier for others to find...
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4454/Project-Viper-GTS-Part-9--RareFab-Roe-Racing-Oil-Pan-Baffle-Kit.aspx

[stuntman]

Hey guys, the next installment of Project Viper is up:


Project Viper GTS: Part 10 – EMI Racing toe stiffener


It's Currently on the MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


This may be a pretty controversial review, but it was unbiased (I had to pay retail for it) and the results from fixing such a massive unknown problem were eye-opening.


"The Gen 2 Viper has a pretty serious, fundamental flaw that’s not widely known. The rear toe deflects by HALF AN INCH under hard cornering and acceleration. Unfortunately most of the “anti-toe brackets” out in the market do not properly address the problem or even make a difference. EMI Racing not only found the true cause of the problem, but solved it with their Toe Stiffeners that greatly improve the handling, consistency and safety of the car."

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-tdS2VR6/1/e0c2381a/X3/1%20Cover%202%20E-X3.jpg


In the article:

-Explanation of the major problem with the Gen 2 upright.
-Installation of the EMI Racing toe stiffener
-Review



Enjoy!

[GTS Dean]

Linky-no-workie.

[stuntman]

Linky-no-workie.

Linky-no-allowed-on-DriveViper. They get MAD.

Go to MotoIQ.com and it's currently the second article on the main page.

For future readers, go to the website, then under PROJECTS, then DODGE, then VIPER GTS to find the article.


Apparently all topics must be discussed in this bubble of a forum and no outside links are allowed. Because the internet isn't easily accessible and we need to keep all traffic confined here. I guess the argument that the author (me) is on this forum and discussions of the article, the product, the review, and the car isn't enough for them to allow a link to my review, but links to random off-topic articles are allowed....?

[MH60M]

Moog stocks new sway bar end links....in case you were looking. Cheap at Rock Auto or Amazon!

[98RedGTS]

Where do you get these and how much? I googled "EMI Racing Toe Stiffeners" and nothing but pictures come up.

[stuntman]

Moog stocks new sway bar end links....in case you were looking. Cheap at Rock Auto or Amazon!
Upcoming article ;)

Thanks though! :)

[stuntman]

Hey guys, the next installment of Project Viper is up:


Project VIPER GTS: Part 11 – Understanding the Factory Temp Gauge


It's Currently on the MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


(Remember: you have to type the site in yourself and look it up since DriveViper.com does not allow links to outside sites on their forum).


With summer just around the corner, we all see posts with photos of someone's water temp gauge (often within the normal range) asking if their motor is overheating. I posted pics of the manual, cross referenced it with the factory gauge, as well as an aftermarket gauge and temperature sending unit to come up with a simplified cross-reference chart of what the manual states to put people at ease that their car is (likely) just fine.

"The Viper has an active water temperature gauge that is far more useful than the dummy gauges in most modern cars that only move when there is a massive problem. However, this tends to freak people out since it can be quite active and moves with the normal fluctuations in temperature a car sees. Like clockwork, once summer rolls around, Viper owners quite frequently post photos of their gauge asking if the needle position is normal. We are going to cover all of the bases from what is normal to what to be concerned over on a Gen 2 Viper."


https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-DMNnk7c/0/55c4bb8f/X2/0%20Dodge%20Viper%20Gauge%20Cluster-X2.jpg


In the article:

-Analysis of owners manual.
-Analysis of factory water temp gauge cross-referenced with aftermarket gauge readings.
-Quick reference chart that's easier to understand than the manual
-Explains the temperature relationship between the radiator fan speeds and thermostat.
-Explains how a lower temp thermostat will NOT make your car run cooler and prevent your car from overheating.


Enjoy!

[AviP]

Sweet!

[Bill W]

I checked it out. Excellent job! Thank you.

[98RedGTS]

Good info and I hope it helps new owners.

I still can't find those toe brackets though. What's the chance you can link them for me please? I'm about to do a suspension overhaul and would love to add them.

[stuntman]

Good info and I hope it helps new owners.

I still can't find those toe brackets though. What's the chance you can link them for me please? I'm about to do a suspension overhaul and would love to add them.
There is no link to them. I have not heard from Erik Messley in a long time. The last I heard he wasn't in the best of health. I think I saw someone on Facebook or IG copy the design.

[M5toViper]

Thanks for the article, stuntman!

[stuntman]

Thanks for the article, stuntman!
I'm glad you liked it :)

[ViperDrive97]

Awesome!!! Thank you for the great content!

[My98RT10]

I really dig this project, great work!! Regarding the coolant, I think that all Gen II Vipers came with the green coolant from the factory, not the orange one as outlined in the article. So, it has been changed previously...

[stuntman]

Awesome!!! Thank you for the great content!Thanks for the feedback!


I really dig this project, great work!! Regarding the coolant, I think that all Gen II Vipers came with the green coolant from the factory, not the orange one as outlined in the article. So, it has been changed previously...Thanks for the kind words. Interesting on the coolant, especially given this car's extremely low mileage and extensive service history, which didn't mention it. Can anyone else confirm Gen-2s factory fill was green?

[Fatboy 18]

Original Gen 2 MOPAR coolant was Green with a 2 year lifespan

[stuntman]

Hey guys, the next installment of Project Viper is up:

It's Currently on the MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


Project Viper: Part 14 – Maintenance: Swaybar Bushings, Ball Joints and Boots

"Time takes its toll on rubber. We replace the old and hardened swaybar bushings, ball joints, and boots on our low-mileage 1997 Viper."


In the article:
-Removing the Balljoints, Swaybar End Links, and Swaybar Bushings
-Installing new components
-NanoPro MT Marine Grease

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-khP8cQS/0/X3/i-khP8cQS-X3.jpg

Enjoy!

[stuntman]

The next installment is up. It's Currently on the MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


Project VIPER GTS: Part 13 – Lowering the car with KW coilovers

"2nd Generation Vipers desperately need to be lowered. We accomplished this with a set of coilovers from KW Suspension. The Viper’s stock suspension is actually quite good. The ride quality is comfortable enough to live with every day, there is not much body roll, and the handling is predictable and feels like a big Miata in character."

In the article:
-Video demonstration of the Viper's handling and balance.
-Removing the factory suspension
-Installing the KW V2 Coilovers

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-rMJV7Wc/0/1720b130/X2/3%20KW%20V2%20Coilover%20Viper%20GTS-X2.jpg


Project VIPER GTS: Part 12 – Replacing The Fluids

"It’s always important to routinely replace the fluids in a car, even if it has low mileage. We went through our 1997 Dodge Viper with less than 10K miles on the odometer to keep it in top-shape and see what age does to a car’s fluids."

In the article:
Replacing the and discussing which fluid should be used for the car:
-Transmission
-Differential
-Coolant
-Engine Oil
-Brake Fluid
-Clutch Fluid

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-FFnTVtW/0/3b014bcb/X2/0%20Cover%20Part12-X2.jpg

[stuntman]

Remember, you need to go to MotoIQ's website and look at the recent articles, or go to PROJECT -> DODGE -> VIPER to see all of the articles.

[James]

Love your articles, and happy to see project Viper is not done yet.

How do you like the KW V2 compared to the stock suspension? I'm asking as my GTS came already equipped with the KW V2 and I find it quite "bumpy" and harsh, but have yet to drive a GTS with any other suspension tuning, or stock for that matter.

[stuntman]

Love your articles, and happy to see project Viper is not done yet.

How do you like the KW V2 compared to the stock suspension? I'm asking as my GTS came already equipped with the KW V2 and I find it quite "bumpy" and harsh, but have yet to drive a GTS with any other suspension tuning, or stock for that matter.
How low is your car?

Look into the rear wheel and try to have a look at the bumpstop. It's possible your car is sitting on the bump stop like mine were and need to be cut down (in half) to give you some/more travel before hitting the bump stop. This makes a world of a difference.

[James]

Thanks a lot for your feedback and your input. Not too low I'd say:

49609

But that's already quite a bit lower than original.

Put the Viper into hibernation for the winter, but I'll put a reminder on her to have that bumpstop thing looked into in Spring. Good input!!

[stuntman]

I'd bet it's sitting on the bump stop. Cut them in half front and rear, then report back.

[James]

Thanks, will do in Spring when the car is back on the road. It's not registered over Winter, meaning I can't drive to the shop right now.

[stuntman]

The next installment of Project Viper GTS is live on MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


Project Viper: Part 15 – Fixing the Factory Brake Bias

"Non-ABS equipped Gen-2 Vipers have terrible brake bias. We install new rear calipers with larger pistons to improve the brake bias and stopping performance of our Viper. We also upgrade the pads and install stainless steel brake lines from Stoptech."

In the article:
-Removing the original rear calipers and installing the larger Tom's 40mm rear caliper.
-Replacing the factory brake lines with Stainless Steel lines from Stoptech
-Upgrading the brake pads front and rear (there's a VERY high performing and inexpensive front pad for the car. If you know where to look...)

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-Tgsbh8D/0/8c6cbfa8/X2/1%20Cover%20Viper%20Part%2015-X2.jpg


Enjoy!

[stuntman]

The next installment of Project Viper GTS is live on MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


Project Viper: Part 16 – Forgeline VX1-6 Wheels and Michelin Super Sport Tires

"Fresh performance tires are crucial for keeping Vipers safe and predictable. We upgrade our Viper with Forgeline’s Monoblock VX1-6 wheels wrapped in new Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.."

In the article:
-Forgeline VX1-6 Wheel
-Michelin Pilot Super Sport tire insight
-History and insight on the Gen-3 Michelin Pilot Sport P2 "C1" (Bespoke Viper) tire.
-Removing old Forgeline GA3R-6 wheels and PS2 C1 tires.
-Installing new Forgeline VX1-6 wheels and PSS tires.


https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-SGwGrJv/0/ac5d1804/X2/29%20Forgeline%20VX1-6%20Viper%20Wheel%20Michelin%20Pilot%20Super%20Spo rt-X2.jpg


Enjoy!

[98RedGTS]

Those are nice. About how much will they set the average person back?

[Dwhite24]

The next installment of Project Viper GTS is live on MotoIQ.com home page but you can find it at: MotoIQ.com > Projects > Dodge > Viper GTS


Project Viper: Part 15 – Fixing the Factory Brake Bias

"Non-ABS equipped Gen-2 Vipers have terrible brake bias. We install new rear calipers with larger pistons to improve the brake bias and stopping performance of our Viper. We also upgrade the pads and install stainless steel brake lines from Stoptech."

In the article:
-Removing the original rear calipers and installing the larger Tom's 40mm rear caliper.
-Replacing the factory brake lines with Stainless Steel lines from Stoptech
-Upgrading the brake pads front and rear (there's a VERY high performing and inexpensive front pad for the car. If you know where to look...)

https://photos.smugmug.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Viper-GTS/i-Tgsbh8D/0/8c6cbfa8/X2/1%20Cover%20Viper%20Part%2015-X2.jpg


Enjoy!

Where did you find a set of Tom's?

[usmcfieldmp]

Where did you find a set of Tom's?

Check here; these posts were made 1 year ago:


Try Rick Shaefer. His email is ricks40mm at hotmail dot com. I'm not sure he is still doing this. The upgrade is a definite positive. It reduces that front dive as well as the stopping distance by 20-30 ft.


Yes I am still doing these.
Email above is correct. Thanks!

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/2569-Tom-s-40mm-brakes/