Dyno Results - Stock vs Stock w/ Arrow Racing ECU

[1.8t]

Everyone has been asking for it, so here it is. The results were not obtained on the same day, but at least they were on the same dyno. The pulls below are based on 93oct.

Numbers in Red are stock. Numbers in Blue are with the Arrow Racing ECU. There are no other modifications.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8631/16603529391_b6716b7c7b_z.jpg
Driving Impressions: It cranks up and runs just like stock. There is a lot of popping and rumbling during in-gear deceleration. The throttle response may be a tad sharper, but this is likely just the improved performance. It feels much sharper and crisp down low and really pulls hard from 4k rpm to redline. I would say that the ECU performs as advertised and I am more than pleased with my purchase.

I will be doing this whole process again once I add my American Racing headers, so look for those results in a few weeks.

[Gonabite]

Awesome. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to the ARH sheet.

[1evilviper]

wow, nice gains! the Tq is huge

[Voice of Reason]

Very nice results!

[swexlin]

Nice numbers. I must say, the stock torque number seems surprisingly low. At 600 lb ft flywheel rated, should be at least 500 to the rear wheels. Even stock Gen 3s put down about 440-450. Why the greater driveline losses in the Gen 5?

[FLATOUT]

There are huge torque gains to be had through the middle with both the mopar controller and HPTuners. Thank you very much for posting before and after! It helps all of us to make better purchasing decisions.

[Gonabite]

You should really pick up some MPH at the strip. Are you going to take it back to the strip before you put the headers on?

[FSTENUF]

Thanks for the posting. I have the headers, hi-flow cats, CAI and exhaust installed. Just waiting for the weather here to break so I can get it to the dealer for the tune install. its going to be a awesome 2015. Vetts beware you ain't going to like how this is going to end :stickmen_burningsti

[1.8t]

Nice numbers. I must say, the stock torque number seems surprisingly low. At 600 lb ft flywheel rated, should be at least 500 to the rear wheels. Even stock Gen 3s put down about 440-450. Why the greater driveline losses in the Gen 5?

I am pretty sure the stock tq number is low due to tire spin on the dyno. This time around I sat in the trunk because it was doing it again and the tq number shot up bigtime. The rollers at this dyno are pretty worn.

[1.8t]

You should really pick up some MPH at the strip. Are you going to take it back to the strip before you put the headers on?

If I have the opportunity to, I will.

[swexlin]

I am pretty sure the stock tq number is low due to tire spin on the dyno. This time around I sat in the trunk because it was doing it again and the tq number shot up bigtime. The rollers at this dyno are pretty worn.

Thank you, that makes sense. Keep us posted on your future results.

[viper04]

Very nice and thanks for posting the info. Do you have any other info like air temp, A/R, ect. Thanks again for posting.

[1.8t]

Very nice and thanks for posting the info. Do you have any other info like air temp, A/R, ect. Thanks again for posting.

Ambient air temp today was 41deg and I did not watch the IAT's when I was doing the pulls. I did 3 pulls back to back and the third pull(one shown above) was the best combination of tq and hp. The second pull the car made 565whp, but only 521wtq.

[hova00]

Great results and cant wait to see your gains with headers. I have my Arrow pcm here waiting to go in and looks like ill have some good gains when it does.

[Orange TA]

How many miles are on your TA? Was this a Dynojet?

[1.8t]

2k miles on my car and it is a Dynojet 248C

[triblk6spd]

Nice! Serious improvements abound it would seem.

[viper04]

Ambient air temp today was 41deg and I did not watch the IAT's when I was doing the pulls. I did 3 pulls back to back and the third pull(one shown above) was the best combination of tq and hp. The second pull the car made 565whp, but only 521wtq.

Good stuff, thanks for posting. Anything on the air/fuel? Just curious on if it was a tad rich/lean.

[1.8t]

Unfortunately, I did not monitor A/F ratios. Seemed trivial since I couldn't adjust them. The Arrow PCM is supposed to target 12.8:1 A/F and it would appear it is doing a good job of hitting the mark.

[cashcorn]

Nice, thanks for posting. Seems right in line with MJorgensen as well. Just wait until you add the headers.. Hang on!

[Reaper]

Awesome gains! Thanks for posting that. That pretty much convinced me to get this PCM as well. Now I just have to find a local dealer that can do the deed. I do want to add some AR headers down the road too. Will this PCM as delivered work with adding headers later or does it have to be tweaked to allow for headers? I wouldnt think it would matter. Usually headers/exhaust will lean out a mixture just a tad but theres room for it with this A/F ratio.

[Gonabite]

Awesome gains! Thanks for posting that. That pretty much convinced me to get this PCM as well. Now I just have to find a local dealer that can do the deed. I do want to add some AR headers down the road too. Will this PCM as delivered work with adding headers later or does it have to be tweaked to allow for headers? I wouldnt think it would matter. Usually headers/exhaust will lean out a mixture just a tad but theres room for it with this A/F ratio.

Yes you can add headers with no additional changes to the PCM.

[allans]

1.8t, This is god news, thank you. How much time $ was required for installation/setup. Allan

[1.8t]

The dealer charged me $100 to install the ECU. It only took them 30min, but they only bill in increments of hours.

[TQMonster]

Nice numbers the split above 4K is impressive

[mjorgensen]

I'm very happy to see the results from another source and that your gains are right where they should be, this is a great bang for the buck mod that will grow with your further choices as you go. Thanks for posting!

[Simms]

I'm very happy to see those results. Is the Arrow PCM picking up more results than the Mopar PCM did for the Gen IV?

[Tiago]

great results!

[Nine Ball]

Impressive. That peak hp figure isn't what we should focus on, but the HUGE increase in average hp across that racing rpm range. The car will surely run a lot faster on the track. I've got this computer at home, but I can't seem to stay in the USA longer than a few days at a time, lately. I'll do a similar dyno comparison when I get back.

Tony

[SilveRT8]

I'm very happy to see those results. Is the Arrow PCM picking up more results than the Mopar PCM did for the Gen IV?

Here are Dyno results I got on my Gen4 with Belanger headers, Stock PCM (in Blue) vs Mopar PCM (Green and Red)
The new Arrow PCM seems to give better results, (got one on the way along with Belanger headers and lower spring caps for the Gen5)

[Bruce H.]

Driving Impressions: It cranks up and runs just like stock. There is a lot of popping and rumbling during in-gear deceleration. I will be doing this whole process again once I add my American Racing headers, so look for those results in a few weeks.

Those look like great gains for such an easy mod. The stock engine already has a fair bit of chortling and popping on decal, so does it now just do more of it, or across a wider rpm band, or louder, or different kind of sound? Do you prefer it, and might it become annoying on day long cruises? Will you be using cats with your headers to keep it emissions compliant, or is that not an issue in your case?

Thanks for sharing!

[1.8t]

With this ECU there is far more popping and gurgling during decel than with the stock computer. I think it is pretty cool, but I could see how it could get aggravating after a while. I will be using cats on my header system and I will overlay that dyno with the runs posted in this thread to show a net gain per mod.

[1.8t]

I'm very happy to see those results. Is the Arrow PCM picking up more results than the Mopar PCM did for the Gen IV?

Very much so. I had an Gen IV before this car and I ran the MOPAR PCM with it. I did this same test(look for it on the VCA forums) and it picked up 7whp and 10wtq.

[DPViper]

With this ECU there is far more popping and gurgling during decel than with the stock computer.

Great...I like more popping and gurgling. Is it louder than before? On my Gen 4 I removed the secondary cats to liven up the exhaust....was thinking about trying this along with the new ECU on my Gen 5. Thanks

[SADVIPER]

Is this rumbling during downshifting/deccelaration normal-looking or what?
I'd like to order this ECU but can someone brief me about how it gets installed

[1.8t]

Great...I like more popping and gurgling. Is it louder than before? On my Gen 4 I removed the secondary cats to liven up the exhaust....was thinking about trying this along with the new ECU on my Gen 5. Thanks

The exhaust isn't any louder, it is just more aggressive with the rumbling and popping when decelerating.

[mjorgensen]

The dealer has to initialize the PCM and VIN then learn the throttles calibration. After that you can switch back and forth between stock and the Arrow PCM as you need to without seeing the dealer again.


Is this rumbling during downshifting/deccelaration normal-looking or what?
I'd like to order this ECU but can someone brief me about how it gets installed

[chris955]

so thats what dyno results look like

[Shooter]

I may be wrong, but isn't the decel pop due to unburnt fuel.? And didnt the Gen IV lose the decel pop when running the Mopar ECU due to burning the fuel more efficiently?
I thought the less pop/crackle actually indicated better performance. Am I off base here?

[mjorgensen]

The popping has been tuned by manipulating the camshaft during decel because people did not like that the G4 PCM eliminated it.


I may be wrong, but isn't the decel pop due to unburnt fuel.? And didnt the Gen IV lose the decel pop when running the Mopar ECU due to burning the fuel more efficiently?
I thought the less pop/crackle actually indicated better performance. Am I off base here?

[Shooter]

Thanks Mark. It's great that they got the added performance AND kept the decel pop. Sweet gains too.

[SilveRT8]

The popping has been tuned by manipulating the camshaft during decel because people did not like that the G4 PCM eliminated it.

JonB could comment on this, as he told me he was driving the Viper on a track while SRT engineer (Dick Winkles, I think?) was adjusting the decel popping of the Arrow PCM while doing multiple passes in front of a large group of Vette Owners, untill most agreed it had the best decel sound. So, If the Vette guys like it !!!

[mjorgensen]

Actually the change was just finished at the last minute. The last week of delays were to get this just right, the original was not good enough for the guys at Arrow.


JonB could comment on this, as he told me he was driving the Viper on a track while SRT engineer (Dick Winkles, I think?) was adjusting the decel popping of the Arrow PCM while doing multiple passes in front of a large group of Vette Owners, untill most agreed it had the best decel sound. So, If the Vette guys like it !!!

[SADVIPER]

The dealer has to initialize the PCM and VIN then learn the throttles calibration. After that you can switch back and forth between stock and the Arrow PCM as you need to without seeing the dealer again.

Thanks Mark for the useful insights! I don't know if my local dealer can intialize the PCM and learn the calibrations because I bought my Viper from a very far country lol.
Love the popping and gurguling sounds simply beasty!

[EdwardETraylorIII]

Great numbers for you!!!

[Redx]

Mark, any chance in hell arrow will release this for the gen iv? or are we stuck with mopar and hpt?

There was some rumblings that the power packages will fit the gen iv aswell, whats our tuning options?

[mjorgensen]

Unfortunately no, Mopar owns the rights to the previous generation PCM. The packages for the G5 will work on the G4 cars they just require seperately tuning so they will be a ways behind the release of the Gen 5 stuff.


Mark, any chance in hell arrow will release this for the gen iv? or are we stuck with mopar and hpt?

There was some rumblings that the power packages will fit the gen iv aswell, whats our tuning options?

[SADVIPER]

I did HPtune today and full Belanger with cats; yielded 573.59 HP. This gave me 70 WHP gain. I feel this sounds good and I better start driving the car the way it was intended to lol so that the HP stays up.
I'd like to know your openion guys on this gain vs Arrow PCM gain.

This was a dynojet, Temperature was hot @35 C in the room.

[gfviperman]

We Dynoed a 2014 with Full Balangers and Arrow PCM last week. Dynojet 1 ...

With a very few hundred miles - bone stock - tempt in the 90s ... 530 HP .... 502 TQ

1500 miles, Balangers/Arrow - tempt in the 50s ............ 563HP .... 539 TQ

Owner not the happiest camper in town ... stock #s seem low as do add-on #s ...

[Steve M]

I did HPtune today and full Belanger with cats; yielded 573.59 HP. This gave me 70 WHP gain. I feel this sounds good and I better start driving the car the way it was intended to lol so that the HP stays up.
I'd like to know your openion guys on this gain vs Arrow PCM gain.

This was a dynojet, Temperature was hot @35 C in the room.

70RWHP is right on the money for those mods, especially with the temp being 95°F (35°C).

[7TH_SIGN]

Nice gains. Im sure the A/F is very conservative.

[Space Truckin]

Nice gains, interested to see ARH numbers. What ARH system are you going to run, cat, catless etc.?

[timberwolf]

Does anyone have an HP Tuners tune only dyno to compare? I'd love to see how much more a custom tune yields in comparison.

I also have a funny feeling the Belangers make a wee bit more power than the Arh. Seems like all the cars making north of 600wheel are sporting Belangers. I could be wrong

[1.8t]

My numbers in comparison to arrow ECU only and stock have already been posted. Search for my threads to see the gain with ARH headers and high flow cats(stock exhaust).

[SADVIPER]

We Dynoed a 2014 with Full Balangers and Arrow PCM last week. Dynojet 1 ...

With a very few hundred miles - bone stock - tempt in the 90s ... 530 HP .... 502 TQ

1500 miles, Balangers/Arrow - tempt in the 50s ............ 563HP .... 539 TQ

Owner not the happiest camper in town ... stock #s seem low as do add-on #s ...

I know the feeling. You have to dyno multiple times no less than 5. Keep the fan at the hood's front as well, adjust the air intake temperature sensor tables.
The Viper needs some aggresive throtle driving for it to recalibrate... you probably need some more miles.

[SADVIPER]

70RWHP is right on the money for those mods, especially with the temp being 95°F (35°C).

Thanks that makes me feel great :)

[SADVIPER]

Nice gains. Im sure the A/F is very conservative.

Yep, the factory ratio was high but my tuner increased the fuel amount a bit.

- - - Updated - - -


Does anyone have an HP Tuners tune only dyno to compare? I'd love to see how much more a custom tune yields in comparison.

I also have a funny feeling the Belangers make a wee bit more power than the Arh. Seems like all the cars making north of 600wheel are sporting Belangers. I could be wrong

I know a guy who removed the cats and HPtune it and gained 20-25 on the wheels.

[GTSilver]

SADVIPER : Congrats on the numbers and nice gains mashalla

[SADVIPER]

Thanks Yousif :)
I'll enshalla be at BIC 5th Nov to test the new power levels :smileys-car-driving

[Jdmuscle]

Just need some clarification here... What does a full bolt on Viper put down to the wheels in an average. Full bolt on meaning... Headers/exhaust and tune. Is it around 600whp?

What about a full bolt on car with heads & cam put down?

Thanks in advance

[pdv25]

Just need some clarification here... What does a full bolt on Viper put down to the wheels in an average. Full bolt on meaning... Headers/exhaust and tune. Is it around 600whp?

What about a full bolt on car with heads & cam put down?

Thanks in advance

Mine made 623/589 with Belanger headers and catback (no cats), K&N intakes, crank pulley and HP tune.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy353/pdv1976/20150616_124903_zpsivvmeh1s.jpg

[Jdmuscle]

Thanks for that PDV25, now is that the norm that most cars put down given full headers and exhaust without cats?

[1.8t]

PDV has the strongest bolt-on numbers I have ever seen.

[pdv25]

Thanks for that PDV25, now is that the norm that most cars put down given full headers and exhaust without cats?

I wouldn't say it's normal. If you take the time to tweak the tune, I don't see why other people couldn't make the same numbers.

[Jdmuscle]

Interesting... So What's the general norm for a full bolt on car without any cats?

[pdv25]

Interesting... So What's the general norm for a full bolt on car without any cats?

IIRC...I usually see the other guys in the high 500's.

[FSTENUF]

Just made my 2nd Dyno run this season. Different shop a lot cooler temps made 27 more WHP. Still a little low @ 556.4 I still can't get the air temp below 136. I started the pull at 82 degrees and by the time I hit 4th gear to start the full pull I am at 136 degrees. I know it's pulling the timing back. On the track with "clean air" it just keeps pulling and pulling. I should be close to 593whp but can't get it on a machine. 2 Gen IV's make 567 and 570 with the same set up only difference there hoods where open and 2 fans blowing. I had 1 fan with the hood closed. any advise????

[SADVIPER]

I believe the driving habits affect the numbers as well. I am sure that no cats + pulley + intake will give 20+ WHP.
I might plan for that in the future but so far I'm good :D

[G37Sam]

Just made my 2nd Dyno run this season. Different shop a lot cooler temps made 27 more WHP. Still a little low @ 556.4 I still can't get the air temp below 136. I started the pull at 82 degrees and by the time I hit 4th gear to start the full pull I am at 136 degrees. I know it's pulling the timing back. On the track with "clean air" it just keeps pulling and pulling. I should be close to 593whp but can't get it on a machine. 2 Gen IV's make 567 and 570 with the same set up only difference there hoods where open and 2 fans blowing. I had 1 fan with the hood closed. any advise????

Why are you so hung up on dyno numbers? You know for a fact that IAT's are climbing and your PCM's pulling timing. Get on the road and enjoy it man.

[Steve M]

Just made my 2nd Dyno run this season. Different shop a lot cooler temps made 27 more WHP. Still a little low @ 556.4 I still can't get the air temp below 136. I started the pull at 82 degrees and by the time I hit 4th gear to start the full pull I am at 136 degrees. I know it's pulling the timing back. On the track with "clean air" it just keeps pulling and pulling. I should be close to 593whp but can't get it on a machine. 2 Gen IV's make 567 and 570 with the same set up only difference there hoods where open and 2 fans blowing. I had 1 fan with the hood closed. any advise????

What dyno?

My advice: try swapping the factory air box back in place (assuming you are still running the AP CAI), and see if that helps your IATs.

[mjorgensen]

I have taken 40+ GenV cars to the dyno before we worked on them, on the dyno. We use a 2 roller Mustang dyno with variable loading from 100rpm/second to 600rpm per second, the average rwhp we have seen is 516 stock (hood closed fans for radiator and dedicated fan for intake). There have been some new cars closer to 500, but changing out airflow sensors helped most of them. Belanger headers and a tune gained an average of 40-45rwhp (1/2 and 1/2 tune/headers generally). A GenV with Arrow H/C and tune are averaging (6 cars) 585-600rwhp depending on mileage so I would say on the dyno anyway (much different then on the track btw) the H/C is worth at least 35-45rwhp over the regular header/tune GenV's we have done.

The stock systems OR the heads and Arrow/HPT set ups seem to get the better numbers cooler, the H/C numbers are better during pulls 3-4 which I cannot explain. Jack's cars gains were average-high from the Belanger/custom HPT, yet he picked up 7 mph at the track and that was with as he said terrible 60' times so the gains HAVE to be better than what a dyno queen can show. FWIW.