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View Full Version : Tail of the Dragon Info or maybe "Something to do in Winter While Waiting For Spring"



Joel
02-20-2015, 04:49 PM
Tail of the Dragon

Wanted to put out the word on our 10th Annual Tail of the Dragon so those of you who are snowbound can have something to think about. Since this a “VOA Bucket List” event, we have worked hard to make sure it will be something you won’t forget. The AL/TN Club has partnered with our friends in the Carolina Club to come up with a plan. The event will “officially” run from May 29-31 but we hope many of you will come in early to enjoy what the Gatlinburg area has to offer.

We are doing something we haven’t done before and that is to have a registration page. For the registration fee you get quite a lot. Not only will we know who is coming but you will get a t-shirt, a bucket list commemorative coin, and a spectacular dinner with some of the Who’s Who in the Viper Community. You will also get maps, tokens for a trolley ride to dinner, and a complete package detailing the events of the weekend. The EARLY BIRD per person registration fee is $70 for VOA members and $80 for non-VOA members. After April 1, the registration fee will rise – so don’t fool around. There will also be door prizes including hotel rooms, dinners, Viper memorabilia, and for one lucky VOA member, a new set of Pirelli tires.

Tail of the Dragon Registration Page http://carolinasvoa.com/tod_registration.htm

Here is the tentative schedule for the week:

Thursday May 28

A travel day for many. Registration desk at the host hotel, the Greystone Lodge, beginning after noon.

Dinner arrangements are on you but we suggest the Alamo, the Crystelle Creek Grille, or for those who want to go to Pigeon Forge, Margaritaville. We are making informal arrangements with the Alamo but we will have addresses of other locations.

Friday May 29

Traditionally this is the Dragon run day and we will follow that tradition. There will be groups leaving from Gatlinburg to do a “backwards” route to Tellico Plains to meet other groups coming from Knoxville and other areas.

Most folks will be at the hotel by 3:00 pm or so to get ready for the Gala Dinner Friday night. Buffet dinner at the Park Vista hotel ballroom. Trolley rides to the Park Vista will begin about 4:45 pm and the cash bar will open at 5:00. Dinner to begin around 6:15 to 6:30 pm. Our amazing speakers and door prizes to be given away around 7:15 or so. You must be present to win. Partying to begin after dinner either at the Park Vista, back at the hotel, or on the Gatlinburg strip. Let's just say the special guests will be announced soon but can you remember SRT? 'Nuff said. This will be a don't miss dinner - from all aspects!!

Saturday May 30

Some folks will want to go to the Dragon again but we will have a cruise to Cherokee and breakfast at the Casino (breakfast is $15 and there adult beverages available). After breakfast, folks will be on their own to explore Cherokee. Maggie Valley, the Blue Ridge Parkway, and other attractions like Wheels Thru Time Motorcycle museum are close by. For those who want to run the Dragon from Cherokee keep in mind that is a about a four hour run of 160 miles so a group would need to leave early to have time to get breakfast in Cherokee and make the loop.

To enable the Cherokee Grille to serve only the Viper owners in attendance, we will move the parade up to 5:00 pm. That means to get folks lined up we would have to start lining up before 4:30 pm. The parade is amazing and you don’t want to miss it but since we have a police escort to the Cherokee Grille, if you are not in line, you won’t be in the parade. The Cherokee Grille dinner is not included in the registration fee but we are handling parking. The parade will be video taped – with no music but the sound of our Vipers – and you may order a copy at dinner to be delivered Sunday morning. We hope to have a copy of the video playing at dinner and Tyrone has offered to bring his Tail of the Dragon video from last year. Of course, after dinner, you are on your own.

Sunday May 31

Another travel day for most. For those who need more, Maurice and the national VOA have organized a trip to the Pirelli Plant in Rome Georgia for an overnight stay Sunday and a plant tour Monday. Details on VOA page.

As usual there will be more details to follow. As we expect 100 plus Vipers to attend, you can see why we decided to have registration. You get a lot for the fee and you extend a courtesy to us by letting us know you are coming so we can accommodate everyone there. We realize you may have special needs or are bringing a family and we will help you any way we can. The restaurants, including the Park Vista, have children’s rates. We will offer additional t-shirts and coins for those who want them. The t-shirts in registration will be short sleeve but if you want a long sleeve t-shirt they will be available too.

If you have questions, please contact me or Brian Kennedy. The registration page is at http://carolinasvoa.com/tod_registration.htm
The host hotel info is:
Greystone Lodge
559 Parkway
Gatlinburg, TN 37738 1-800-451-9202
rates are ~$99 during the week - $109 weekend per night for king or double king

Joel Hausler 615-308-3358
Alabama/Tennessee Club

Brian Kennedy 724-822-9625
Carolinas Club

01sapphirebob
02-20-2015, 05:59 PM
Registered!!!!!!

PatrickB
02-20-2015, 06:45 PM
We're registered!

dodgefever
02-20-2015, 07:01 PM
Registered and room reserved!

CarolinaViper
02-20-2015, 07:31 PM
Donna and I are ready to go.

Mad Max
02-20-2015, 07:42 PM
Just signed up! Wife is going this time. I might have to behave, or maybe not!

Brian GTS
02-20-2015, 08:31 PM
Nice write up Joel! Janelle and I are registered and ready to go!

Mreeves
02-20-2015, 09:21 PM
Terri and I are getting the salt and limes ready!!

DaveW
02-21-2015, 07:11 AM
Dave and Marcia - again!

LittleCobra
02-21-2015, 08:44 AM
Just a thought after noticing the trip that Maurice planned on sunday the 31st, the Jack Daniels brewery is located about 4 hours from the northwestern TOTD leg.

uvbnbit
02-21-2015, 09:01 AM
Well done! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy053.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

billp
02-21-2015, 09:39 AM
Bill & Elaine - room booked - looking forward to a fantastic weekend!

LATAMUD
02-21-2015, 05:15 PM
Wife and I will be there.

HLANDIS
02-21-2015, 05:30 PM
Registered and ready!!
Great job AL/TN and the Carolinas. Gonna be an epic event!

DEADEYE
02-21-2015, 10:47 PM
Jennifer and I are registered as well. Do children require registration?

Brian GTS
02-22-2015, 11:03 AM
Here's an update folks....

In less than two days, we have 38 cars and 66 members registered so far! Amazing!

Regions Represented (so far):
Alabama/Tennessee
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia

Awesome! Keep'em coming folks!

Stretch
02-22-2015, 11:11 AM
Awesome! My registration is going in today :-)

Joel
02-22-2015, 11:45 AM
Jennifer and I are registered as well. Do children require registration?

We've had lots of questions about children and family members and the short answer is NO, you don't have to register children and extended family who don't want the t-shirts and coins included in registration for members and spouses(or significant others). But they will have to pay for the meal on Friday night. We want as many folks as possible to come and to enjoy the event. With registration you get t-shirts, dinner, coins, etc. and the dinner on Friday has a child's price ($9.95 for under 10 years old) and the other restaurants will have children's menus too. Adults and children over 10 will have to pay the regular price for dinner on Friday night. The regular price is $24.95 but since we are in a group there is an 18% service charge and 10% tax added on meal prices. You may pay at the door but please let us know if you have other extended family or children so we can get extra trolley tokens and tell the hotel about numbers to expect at the dinner. We will also have extra t-shirts and coins for sale if you want them.

Our goal is for everyone to have fun - especially at the dinner events on Friday and Saturday -and in light of the scope of the event the registration price includes dinner for Friday night only. Seating will be limited to 250 on Saturday night so we do need to know numbers in advance and that is also the purpose of having event registration that lets us know numbers who will attend. Feel free to contact us if you have questions or need help in making special arrangements. Joel joel.hausler@mtsu.edu
or Brian Kennedy brian@carolinasviperclub.com

DEADEYE
02-22-2015, 03:23 PM
Thanks! My toddler will be in tow ;)

djc986
02-22-2015, 04:13 PM
Registered and room reserved.

Everyone that is going to ToD, think about the Pirelli tour on June 1. It is a very unique opportunity to see a very special tire factory.

NSviper
02-22-2015, 04:54 PM
Just registered....Did someone mention Jack Daniels tour ?

uvbnbit
02-22-2015, 04:58 PM
Here's an update folks....

In less than two days, we have 38 cars and 66 members registered so far! Amazing!

Regions Represented (so far):
Alabama/Tennessee
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia

Awesome! Keep'em coming folks!

Make that 39 cars, 69 people (Viper Twin Teresa will be in attendance this year!)

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z257/uvbnbit/Twins-Summer-2007.jpg (http://s194.photobucket.com/user/uvbnbit/media/Twins-Summer-2007.jpg.html)



http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink048.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink060.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/big/big-smiley-004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/free-big-smiley.php)

uvbnbit
02-22-2015, 04:59 PM
Just registered....Did someone mention Jack Daniels tour ?

Yes, Lynchburg few hours away.. JD tour is pretty dang good. We did that as "season opener" event one year

Nova Scotia representin' !

Stretch
02-22-2015, 05:14 PM
For those that cannot hit Jack Daniels on this trip, the Ohio & IN/KY clubs will be touring several Bourbon Distilleries the last weekend of June :-)

NSviper
02-22-2015, 05:15 PM
Yes, Lynchburg few hours away.. JD tour is pretty dang good. We did that as "season opener" event one year

Nova Scotia representin' !
Hey Chip + 1 for Newfoundland ...Janets brother. Looking forward to seeing you guys again.

uvbnbit
02-22-2015, 05:45 PM
We're thinking about going in on Wed afternoon now. You guys are a bad influence. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angelic008.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

hmerrittiii
02-22-2015, 06:19 PM
Heidi and I registered and booked room today.

Next Phase
02-22-2015, 06:31 PM
I posted in the NC thread already, registered and hotel reservations. Looking forward to it!

GreenVenom
02-22-2015, 07:25 PM
Registered and rooms reserved for Gatlinburg and Pirelli tour too. 😎

BankerJohn
02-23-2015, 09:36 AM
Janise and I are registered and room booked........now someone melt this damn snow, we need more than 4 miles on the odometer

mamba184
02-23-2015, 12:21 PM
Registered and booked! We've been looking forward to this since the drive home last year!!!

Brian GTS
02-23-2015, 07:30 PM
We're up over 50 cars already!!! I bet the hotel has been very busy answering the phone the past couple days. :)

Canada added to the list too!

Regions Represented (so far):
Alabama/Tennessee
Canada
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia

Stretch
02-23-2015, 08:31 PM
Dang! 50 in 4 days, that's crazy.

01sapphirebob
02-23-2015, 08:34 PM
dang! 50 in 4 days, that's crazy.

epic!!!!!

Schen
02-23-2015, 09:26 PM
Throw New Jersey on that list too. :)

1822 mile round trip for me! Flying out to Ohio and will convoy there.

--RS

NSviper
02-25-2015, 04:22 PM
We're thinking about going in on Wed afternoon now. You guys are a bad influence. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angelic008.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Chip, we will be there wed afternoon also. Janet will not be with me this time, she is sending her brother to keep an eye on me. hahaha...

uvbnbit
02-26-2015, 06:06 AM
Chip, we will be there wed afternoon also. Janet will not be with me this time, she is sending her brother to keep an eye on me. hahaha...

We'll miss her. IDEA: Bring both cars, then her and Teresa (Lisa's twin) can drive one. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Brian GTS
02-27-2015, 04:49 PM
Okay folks, less than a week into registration and we're up to 65 Vipers and over 110 people registered! ...and a couple more regions added (bolded)

Regions Represented (so far):
Alabama/Tennessee
Canada
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia
Texas
Virginia

FE156
02-28-2015, 04:36 PM
Registered & Hotel booked :D

Steph

PatrickB
02-28-2015, 08:17 PM
Another CAROLINAS representing!

Brian GTS
03-06-2015, 07:05 AM
UPDATE:

We're up to 75 Vipers!!! ...and welcome New England region!!!

Alabama/Tennessee
Canada
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
New England
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia
Texas
Virginia

Stretch
03-06-2015, 07:32 AM
^^ Wow!

PatrickB
03-06-2015, 07:46 AM
25 to go!

No hemi
03-06-2015, 08:43 AM
I thought I had done it here, but I Hadn't, lol. Already Registered and Booked !!!!!!:car-smiley-003:

01sapphirebob
03-06-2015, 11:17 AM
UPDATE:

We're up to 75 Vipers!!! ...and welcome New England region!!!

Alabama/Tennessee
Canada
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
New England
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania/West Virginia
Texas
Virginia

:t1236::drive::very_drunk::dancingman::smileys-car-driving:bth_smiley_formula1:dude3::monkeyleft::coo l:

Stretch
03-06-2015, 11:42 AM
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o397/JEM2201/Random/car.gif (http://s341.photobucket.com/user/JEM2201/media/Random/car.gif.html)

uvbnbit
03-07-2015, 07:33 AM
http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-char-017.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons.php)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink048.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked031.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

XSTAR
03-08-2015, 05:22 PM
I just realized the WannaGoFast 1/2 Mile in Clayton, GA is this same weekend (Sat/Sun). Hmm, I may do Dragon on Friday, cruise to Cherokee on Sat, then head to Clayton (1hr drive) from Cherokee and run the 1/2 mile Sunday. I realize that means missing the parade...but I told myself I would not miss the 1/2 mile this year as well.

Martin2000GTS
03-09-2015, 05:34 PM
10 cars from the NE Region signed up!! Looking forward to this! Gonna be awesome!

Joel
03-09-2015, 05:45 PM
You guys pushed us to well over 80 cars!! 80+ cars in less than 2 weeks!!! Don't delay - register today:car-smiley-003:


10 cars from the NE Region signed up!! Looking forward to this! Gonna be awesome!

HLANDIS
03-10-2015, 08:11 PM
Awesome!! Can't wait!! Going to be an amazing sight to see a line of 80+ vipers snaking through the mountains.


You guys pushed us to well over 80 cars!! 80+ cars in less than 2 weeks!!! Don't delay - register today:car-smiley-003:

Brian GTS
03-10-2015, 08:13 PM
Awesome!! Can't wait!! Going to be an amazing sight to see a line of 80+ vipers snaking through the mountains.

Actually, I'm thinking you may see more like 100. We should be there by the end of this month. :)

HLANDIS
03-10-2015, 09:20 PM
I believe so Brian!! The way this has grown, I have no doubt! Once a taste of spring hits, the gates will open!! Lol


Actually, I'm thinking you may see more like 100. We should be there by the end of this month. :)

Stretch
03-10-2015, 09:29 PM
Dang that's a lotta Vipers!!!!

snake handler
03-11-2015, 08:10 PM
Hotel Reservations made and Registration complete Rick and Cheryl will be there!!

LittleCobra
03-12-2015, 12:11 PM
Hey who decided to do a mini-NVE this year? Looks like the attendants number is headed towards those proportions :p

Special Ed
03-12-2015, 03:41 PM
Lisa and I just registered. We can't wait to see over 100 vipers in one place at one time, but more than that we are looking forward to meeting the fine people that drive and ride these awesome machines.:car-smiley-003::t1567:

Brian GTS
03-12-2015, 08:24 PM
Well folks, we just hit 90 Vipers!!! ...and Oklahoma is now in the game! Woo hoo!

Alabama/Tennessee
Canada
Carolinas
Florida
Georgia
Indiana/Kentucky
Michigan (Motor City)
Mid-South (AR/LA/MS)
New England
New Jersey
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania/West Virginia
Texas
Virginia

Stretch
03-12-2015, 08:37 PM
Craziness!!!!!!!!

I am very pumped for this!!

01sapphirebob
03-12-2015, 09:52 PM
Craziness!!!!!!!!

I am very pumped for this!!

This!

HLANDIS
03-14-2015, 05:32 PM
Is......it......time......yet!!! Why does May always take soooo long! Lol!!
10th anniversary!! GOING BIG!

mamba184
03-14-2015, 07:19 PM
Ronnie - Are you guys planning to arrive early this year? If so, let me know. We'd love to tag along on Thursday.

- Jim

DEADEYE
03-15-2015, 03:07 PM
Ronnie - Are you guys planning to arrive early this year? If so, let me know. We'd love to tag along on Thursday.

- Jim

Ronnie and I are leaving early together. We'll be in town about a week ahead of time.

mamba184
03-16-2015, 11:11 AM
Tyrone -

Good to see you're bringing your Viper this time! May can't get here soon enough!!!

Brian GTS
03-20-2015, 04:23 PM
Well, we did it!!! We just hit


!!! 100 CARS !!!


HOLY SMOKES!!! WAY TO GO!!!!

Joel
03-20-2015, 04:30 PM
And among those 100 attendees - notables include Ralph and Doris Gilles. If you haven't signed up yet, you don't want to miss this gathering. Can you imagine the sound, smell, and presence of 100+ Vipers on the strip in Gatlinburg? Don't imagine it. Be there!

01sapphirebob
03-20-2015, 04:33 PM
Well, we did it!!! We just hit


!!! 100 CARS !!!


HOLY SMOKES!!! WAY TO GO!!!!

This is awesome!!!!!

Stretch
03-20-2015, 04:42 PM
Well, we did it!!! We just hit


!!! 100 CARS !!!


HOLY SMOKES!!! WAY TO GO!!!!

Wow! That is epic!

99RT10
03-20-2015, 06:05 PM
Anybody know if Dick Winkles is coming too?

HLANDIS
03-21-2015, 07:57 PM
Awesome!!! This will be epic! Maybe I need to rent another helicopter?!?! LOL!! 10th anniversary will be one to remember!!
Great job all involved!!
Stretch, how big is your caravan this year?? New record also??

Stretch
03-21-2015, 09:54 PM
Still workin' on it! We have 15 cars so far. Last year we had 17 the morning of, and about 3 others that came down later in the day.

Jeebs
03-22-2015, 08:42 AM
^ Stretch im in again. Can't miss this one. Its going to be huge. I can't wait. Booking my room today to make sure i get one.

Jeebs
03-22-2015, 09:36 AM
Room is booked. Let the count down begin.

PatrickB
03-22-2015, 09:41 AM
Gatlinburg has seen us before, but they're not going to know what hit 'em when we invade this year!

Stretch
03-22-2015, 02:02 PM
^ Stretch im in again. Can't miss this one. Its going to be huge. I can't wait. Booking my room today to make sure i get one.

Make that 16 cars! I've added you to my list. Details to be emailed again as we get closer, just like last year. The meeting spot is a little farther south compared to last year.

Martin2000GTS
03-23-2015, 09:42 PM
wow 100 cars, this is gonnna be insane! I just signed up for VIR the following week also! this is going to be a great year!

Martin2000GTS
03-24-2015, 04:27 PM
Anyone know what time the Pirelli Tour is over on Monday? Trying to see if I can make it to Raleigh Durham International Airport on time for their 9pm flight. Its a 7 hour drive from the Pirelli Tour....I think Ill be pushing it...It would be a nice time save if I made it though...

Brian GTS
03-24-2015, 08:40 PM
UPDATE: We're up to 105 VIPERS as of today!

ONLY ONE WEEK REMAINS FOR EARLY BIRD DISCOUNT REGISTRATION!!! As you can imagine, a majority of the hotel rooms are booked, but there are still a few rooms left!

You can register here: http://carolinasvoa.com/tod_registration.htm

Hotel info is at the bottom of the registration page. Again, most are checking in Thursday, May 28th and checking out Sunday May 31st. This is going to be AMAZING!

Joel
03-25-2015, 01:37 PM
Martin

As far as I know, the tour was to be scheduled in the morning. I'll try to find out for you.

Martin2000GTS
03-25-2015, 04:37 PM
Joel, I got the answer! Its over around 12, that's when lunch is.. then we should be on our way around 1pm to head back home .

Jeebs
03-30-2015, 09:44 PM
Just registered......can't wait. Its going to be a long couple months.

HLANDIS
04-09-2015, 09:59 AM
HEARD WE UP TO 125 now!!😜😜
UPDATE: We're up to 105 VIPERS as of today!

ONLY ONE WEEK REMAINS FOR EARLY BIRD DISCOUNT REGISTRATION!!! As you can imagine, a majority of the hotel rooms are booked, but there are still a few rooms left!

You can register here: http://carolinasvoa.com/tod_registration.htm

Hotel info is at the bottom of the registration page. Again, most are checking in Thursday, May 28th and checking out Sunday May 31st. This is going to be AMAZING!

01sapphirebob
04-09-2015, 10:34 AM
HEARD WE UP TO 125 now!!����

If so that you s EPIC!!

Brian GTS
04-09-2015, 11:42 AM
Yes, we are in the 120's for certain!!! Crazy awesome!

Kimo
04-12-2015, 09:35 AM
Mike, Carol, Brad and Trish are signed up. We are staying in the Lake Toxaway motorcoach resort and hope to attend events on Friday and Saturday. We may make a mini trip out of it and spend Friday night in Gatlinburg. Looking forward to meeting everyone.

DEADEYE
04-12-2015, 03:59 PM
Who can I speak to about the details of playing the Tale of the Dragon video?

uvbnbit
04-13-2015, 05:47 AM
Who can I speak to about the details of playing the Tale of the Dragon video?

Maybe before the dinner/banquet Fri? Joel would be able to point in right direction for that.

DEADEYE
04-13-2015, 11:07 AM
Thanks ;)

VYPR BYT
04-13-2015, 05:19 PM
Yes, we are in the 120's for certain!!! Crazy awesome!

We're gonna overload that town, I hope everyone gets food! lol

HLANDIS
04-13-2015, 05:57 PM
We're gonna overload that town, I hope everyone gets food! lol
Gonna make the ground shake in that town!! People are in for a treat!!

Joel
04-13-2015, 06:47 PM
See your PM. Chip is right - we'll take care of it. Just need to find out the equipment at the hotel.


Thanks ;)

Stretch
04-13-2015, 07:13 PM
Yes, we are in the 120's for certain!!! Crazy awesome!

It just got serious. Wow.

I'm starting to get very excited for this trip! I need to watch a couple movies before it gets too close!

J TNT
04-13-2015, 07:22 PM
Take lots of Pics ! :car-smiley-003:

Slaughterj
05-18-2015, 07:57 AM
Fine, I'll be there too!

uvbnbit
05-18-2015, 03:02 PM
Fine, I'll be there too!

First Guinness on me

XSTAR
05-18-2015, 09:01 PM
I hope to see some of the new GenV colors in person...anyone bringing Comp Blue?

Is the Knoxville group leaving on the same route as last year?

Joel
05-19-2015, 07:18 AM
Yes. Leaving Cracker Barrel at Campbell Station around 9:30 or so. Chip and Tim will lead the group.


I hope to see some of the new GenV colors in person...anyone bringing Comp Blue?

Is the Knoxville group leaving on the same route as last year?

Bmw2nv2000
05-19-2015, 09:37 AM
Hey Rahn, Ill be there with the Knoxville group. See ya there