Dyno Before and After Belanger Headers and exhaust

[MKALSABAH]

I dynode my viper yesterday, while the car was hot and i got 534.95 HP.
I am installing the headers & exhaust and will run it again and see how much gain i get out them. Any one know what gains i can get after installing the headers and exhaust?

8712 8713
8714

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izJi2kI_QoU&feature=youtu.be

[Nine Ball]

Probably around 50-60 rwhp. More if you add a tune or the Mopar PCM from Woodhouse.

[MKALSABAH]

Probably around 50-60 rwhp. More if you add a tune or the Mopar PCM from Woodhouse.

whats the mopar PCM?

[sharmut]

whats the mopar PCM?

This....
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/3286-Just-released-off-road-PCM-for-Gen-V

[Jack B]

If you let the IAT go over 95F, you will not see much.

[Dman]

Probably around 50-60 rwhp. More if you add a tune or the Mopar PCM from Woodhouse.

Really, I thought it was like 35rwhp with the Belangers alone, and then another 25rwhp with PCM, for a total of 60rwhp, or about 600rwhp with this combo.

If 50-60 just with the Belangers and Mark / SRT says 25+ with PCM, then we're at up to 85rwhp with the combo?? I'm not sure that's right, that's in the 630+rwhp range, although, I hope that's right ;-)

[Steve M]

Really, I thought it was like 35rwhp with the Belangers alone, and then another 25rwhp with PCM, for a total of 60rwhp, or about 600rwhp with this combo.

If 50-60 just with the Belangers and Mark / SRT says 25+ with PCM, then we're at up to 85rwhp with the combo?? I'm not sure that's right, that's in the 630+rwhp range, although, I hope that's right ;-)

From what I've seen, it is 30-ish from the headers, and another 30-ish from the tune, with a combined total of about 60 RWHP (some a bit more, and some a bit less).

[mjorgensen]

The stock tune is very rich, each car will be different potentially. Even with the headers alone they only lean it out .5 -.75 a point and it's hard to make power at that A/F. The headers alone have shown 20-28rwhp on our dyno and adding a good tune will get you a total of about 60rwhp gains. Do not dyno with the hood open, keep it closed and use a large fan to blow directly into the opening like it would be on the road.

[FLATOUT]

Guys this is a 60rwhp gain through the middle not the peak. Peak numbers improve but nothing crazy. The massive gains are through the heart of the band.

[mjorgensen]

Guys this is a 60rwhp gain through the middle not the peak. Peak numbers improve but nothing crazy. The massive gains are through the heart of the band.

Gains start really jumping just before 4000 rpm and there is lots through that range, we have still seen up to 55-60rwhp gains at the tire at peak, highest tq. gains are around 5000, at least +40rwtq from 4400-5800. With Belangers and the HPT.

The numbers will vary car to car though based on what it has for A/F ratio to start, these gains were on cars with A/F's of less than 10.2:1 to begin with.

[Dman]

I want to hit a dyno and help with another data point, but I'm leaning towards the Mopar PCM, so I'll have to work that out in terms of trying to do the swap, then swap to stock then swap back while at the dyno, after the initial dealer reset and learning and mileage for optimizing or whatever.

Of course, today was my first real mileage on the car after the Belanger install and I got 8 miles from the house and got the MIL indicator, catalyst efficiency 420 code, lol. Well, not really lolling, but ... c'mon, 420, like my viper was toking up in the garage before I got out there.

Probably too much time sitting in the driveway playing with the car with it idling and petering to the grocery store a couple times in 20 degree weather. Can't really blow it out because the temps are too low for any real traction ... supposed to have been 50 degrees today but still under 30. Not concerned, but man I hate that little red engine icon.

[mjorgensen]

I want to hit a dyno and help with another data point, but I'm leaning towards the Mopar PCM, so I'll have to work that out in terms of trying to do the swap, then swap to stock then swap back while at the dyno, after the initial dealer reset and learning and mileage for optimizing or whatever.

Of course, today was my first real mileage on the car after the Belanger install and I got 8 miles from the house and got the MIL indicator, catalyst efficiency 420 code, lol. Well, not really lolling, but ... c'mon, 420, like my viper was toking up in the garage before I got out there.

Probably too much time sitting in the driveway playing with the car with it idling and petering to the grocery store a couple times in 20 degree weather. Can't really blow it out because the temps are too low for any real traction ... supposed to have been 50 degrees today but still under 30. Not concerned, but man I hate that little red engine icon.

Very possibly loaded up from being idling and extra rich, I'm sure with some spirited driving as you say it will clear it out.

[serpent]

Does anyone do single turbo kits for the Gen V? I'd like to know the price of a basic kit, and the price of a TT kit. I know there are TT vipers around, just not sure who makes them and if any single turbo Gen V exists.

[FLATOUT]

Gains start really jumping just before 4000 rpm and there is lots through that range, we have still seen up to 55-60rwhp gains at the tire at peak, highest tq. gains are around 5000, at least +40rwtq from 4400-5800. With Belangers and the HPT.

The numbers will vary car to car though based on what it has for A/F ratio to start, these gains were on cars with A/F's of less than 10.2:1 to begin with.

Exactly, I saw huge gains through the middle and up but if someone is expecting to see 50-60 at the peak they will be dissapointed. Hopefully people realize picking up 50-60 ANYwhere is huge though.

[Dman]

Does anyone do single turbo kits for the Gen V? I'd like to know the price of a basic kit, and the price of a TT kit. I know there are TT vipers around, just not sure who makes them and if any single turbo Gen V exists.

Yes, two: RSI does a great turbo, snicker, setup that others can, lol, attest to, and then there's Hennessy who does awesome, ha, does aweso... bwah haha, ok I can't keep it up, I'm just kidding.

I know some are running them and have some wicked setups, might be best to search or start a new thread with the question in the title to get the attention of the super HP guys here ... but stay away from those whose names (above) shall not be spoken, except in jest.

[Crotalidae]

Yes, two: RSI does a great turbo, snicker, setup that others can, lol, attest to, and then there's Hennessy who does awesome, ha, does aweso... bwah haha, ok I can't keep it up, I'm just kidding.

I know some are running them and have some wicked setups, might be best to search or start a new thread with the question in the title to get the attention of the super HP guys here ... but stay away from those whose names (above) shall not be spoken, except in jest.

Sorry...I spit my drink out of my mouth reading this...lol!!!

[serpent]

Ive read the stories about both shops. Hennessey is well known in ford and gm forums too, lol.
guess there it would have to be a custom fabbed setup.

Didnt mean to derail OP, keep us updated. Always nice to see appreciation of american cars in the middle east

[Carbon GTS]

ID talk to D3 here in Houston, they seem to do excellent work and easy to deal with.

[MKALSABAH]

The HEADERS AND EXHAUST INSTALLED!! IT Sounds amazing!! but the car vabirates on idle. is it normal? i will dyno it after 500 Miles. as the instructions ask me to do.

[Jack B]

Vibration - the muffler is no longer centered in the sill.

Dyno - wot hp is not going to change with more miles. Don't let IAT get above 95F or the pcm will pull tming.

good luck


The HEADERS AND EXHAUST INSTALLED!! IT Sounds amazing!! but the car vabirates on idle. is it normal? i will dyno it after 500 Miles. as the instructions ask me to do.

[MKALSABAH]

Vibration - the muffler is no longer centered in the sill.

Dyno - wot hp is not going to change with more miles. Don't let IAT get above 95F or the pcm will pull tming.

good luck

So the vibration is normal?

[hova00]

I hope the vibration isn't normal. Looking forward to seeing some videos

[Jack B]

No, it is not normal. They have to open the sills and recenter the muffler. The issue could be something else, but, this is the most likely.


So the vibration is normal?

[mjorgensen]

What cat back did you buy, full Belanger mufflers, Corsa?

[DPViper]

I bet the vibration is from the headers or muffler touching the frame or the sill. Had the same problem.

[RPM9000]

You better check it because on my GenIV the front band clamp under the sidesill was turned so that the threaded bolt was touching the sidesill and it rubbed a hole in it. The exhaust system was installed by the previous owner. I wish I had checked it but there was no indication of a problem until it was too late.

[SammutRacing]

I have heard of issues with a vibrating sound/feeling with the belanger headers on the Gen 5 from many people one being my viper shop here in NY.. I was told it may even be from the motor mounts on the GEN 5.. any updates on the vibrating issue or the updated dyno #s?

* also anyone out there with ARH on a gen 5 with the hi flow cat option on a stock ECU? will the CEL come on? I see the one major advantage to the balanger system is NO CEL on stock ECU and that is a major thing for guys like me in NY.. cant pass inspection with a CEL or without the car showing all systems ready when plugged in and headers are to big of a job to swap on and off.. I had high flow cats to a corsa track with stock headers on my Gen 4 and had a CEL but it took only an HR to swap out to pass inspection once every few years (when needing to re-new registration you need a current NYSI)

[Dman]

I have heard of issues with a vibrating sound/feeling with the belanger headers on the Gen 5 from many people one being my viper shop here in NY.. I was told it may even be from the motor mounts on the GEN 5.. any updates on the vibrating issue or the updated dyno #s?

* also anyone out there with ARH on a gen 5 with the hi flow cat option on a stock ECU? will the CEL come on? I see the one major advantage to the balanger system is NO CEL on stock ECU and that is a major thing for guys like me in NY.. cant pass inspection with a CEL or without the car showing all systems ready when plugged in and headers are to big of a job to swap on and off.. I had high flow cats to a corsa track with stock headers on my Gen 4 and had a CEL but it took only an HR to swap out to pass inspection once every few years (when needing to re-new registration you need a current NYSI)

Based on talks with Lou/Tom/Mark and others the vibration was from the first run of headers, Belanger made an angle change consequently and it's reportedly not an issue anymore. I have them and no issues.

Reportedly by several with ARH headers they don't have a CEL, just like the Belangers. I think if you idle the car al LONG time and piddle around you can get the o2's dirty and get a CEL, but it'll clear with driving.

IMO, the difference between the Belanger & ARH is just up to your preference, price vs material vs what you've had before, etc. I bought my Belangers like a couple days before ARH posted their setup. Had theirs been there earlier, I'd have been on the fence, although I've personally had Belangers before and so leaned that way. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[SammutRacing]

thanks for the info Dman.. I personally like the way the ARH sound a little better (on youtube) plus ARH HQ and manufacturing facility is only about 15 miles away from me and that's always a good thing. I have nightmares about check engine lights! lol. makes for a real headache here in NY.. also since you seem to be very knowledgeable on this do you know of anyone with the header back agency power catted titanium system? any CEL reports there?.. if there is a thread on this already I apologize, im new to the forum world but have been a long time lurker haha.. still trying to figure out how the hell to navigate around.. seem no one is making a header back like I had on my gen4.. I had random techs to corsa track and loved it!

[red heat]

I have heard of issues with a vibrating sound/feeling with the belanger headers on the Gen 5 from many people one being my viper shop here in NY.. I was told it may even be from the motor mounts on the GEN 5.. any updates on the vibrating issue or the updated dyno #s?

* also anyone out there with ARH on a gen 5 with the hi flow cat option on a stock ECU? will the CEL come on? I see the one major advantage to the balanger system is NO CEL on stock ECU and that is a major thing for guys like me in NY.. cant pass inspection with a CEL or without the car showing all systems ready when plugged in and headers are to big of a job to swap on and off.. I had high flow cats to a corsa track with stock headers on my Gen 4 and had a CEL but it took only an HR to swap out to pass inspection once every few years (when needing to re-new registration you need a current NYSI)

in connecticut, emissions is a real PIA. also agree that if a full belanger system makes it thru emissions, it may be the way to go. I would like to go this route for my 09 ACR. I track the car quite a bit in the northeast. does anyone know how loud in dB the exhaust gets? reason why I ask is that I often go to lime rock park in ct to run my car and if your car is louder than 89 dB, you will be asked to leave. I know , its a really retarded rule up there. any thoughts?

[ViperGeorge]

in connecticut, emissions is a real PIA. also agree that if a full belanger system makes it thru emissions, it may be the way to go. I would like to go this route for my 09 ACR. I track the car quite a bit in the northeast. does anyone know how loud in dB the exhaust gets? reason why I ask is that I often go to lime rock park in ct to run my car and if your car is louder than 89 dB, you will be asked to leave. I know , its a really retarded rule up there. any thoughts?

One of the problems with the Gen 4/5 in terms of noise restrictions is the exhaust exits on the side and points directly at the sound truck. Maybe you could fabricate some kind of turn down that you could install when you go to the track. I had thought about doing this on my 09 ACR but never really got to it. On my 06 with the Corsa cat back and stock manifolds I was clocked at 103 dbs. Almost got kicked out of NJMP until the guys at the SCCA event realized that on that particular day noise limits didn't matter.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Did you ever Dyno the car after?

[Arizona Vipers]

Did you ever Dyno the car after?

THIS! :t1236:

[SADVIPER]

I dynoed my car before Belanger, after, and after tune.
Total gain is 60 WHP, with cats and no air intake or filter change.
The vibration is normal at first because of the lose bolts and clamp bracket, and also the idle has to be increased a bit to keep it steady once you tune it.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

I dynoed my car before Belanger, after, and after tune.
Total gain is 60 WHP, with cats and no air intake or filter change.
The vibration is normal at first because of the lose bolts and clamp bracket, and also the idle has to be increased a bit to keep it steady once you tune it.

Did you tune with HPT? Cats are stock or hi flow? Stock catback?
60RWHP is great! Did you do an UD pulley as well?

[Arizona Vipers]

I dynoed my car before Belanger, after, and after tune.
Total gain is 60 WHP, with cats and no air intake or filter change.


Peak? Or elsewhere in the power band?

[ARD Motorsports]

Does anyone do single turbo kits for the Gen V? I'd like to know the price of a basic kit, and the price of a TT kit. I know there are TT vipers around, just not sure who makes them and if any single turbo Gen V exists.

Our basic twin turbo gen v kit is around 28K

[Jack B]

The magic dyno.


Peak? Or elsewhere in the power band?