Would you drive a V-6 Viper???

[Rizzo]

With all the insanity going around about the new GT being a V-6, would you buy a Viper with a Twin turbo V-6? I know its always been a V-10 BUT if Dodge were to come out tomorrow with 750HP TT V-6 that weighed 300 lbs less than the current V-10 and gave it a really exotic sound would you buy one? Lighter weight, better handling and more HP but in a V-6? Id do it. What are your thoughts? Just a dumb question but with the industry going this way more and more it seems its just a matter of time.

[VENOM V]

Yikes! What a dilemma. I would say no way except you threw in 750 HP and a 300 Lb weight savings. Good curve ball! I want it to stay V10 but if EPA forces us to change, I would reluctantly go along with it.

[BlknBlu]

I have Mopar blood in my veins, so yes I would, but it better sound good and stay in limited production. I prefer the sounds of a V8 but love the idea of having a car that not everyone has and does not hare any platform with. I am not a track rat but love the Mopar Brands and thier performance line. A V6 in a viper will in my opinion be the death of the car.

Bruce

[Fatboy 18]

Don't be so ridiculous, NO The V10 is the heart of these cars.

To rip out its heart would be sacrilege! The Horror, The Horror.

[ACRucrazy]

No.

I don't care if Dodge or Chrysler comes up with a new supercar that succeeds the Viper, which happened to have a V6 or whatever. But if it's not a V10, its not a Viper.

[Nine Ball]

You are clearly asking a loaded question, in order to arrive at the answer you personally want. The non-biased way to ask, would be to assume all else equal, except the engine platform.

650 hp V10 naturally aspirated
650 hp V6 twin-turbo

If those are my choices, then NO.

[ViperSmith]

Yes. To me the engine is part of the experience, but not the only thing that makes the Viper the Viper.

I'd gladly take a V6TT + KERS Viper, if it had the power to make it worth it.

[Nine Ball]

Yes. To me the engine is part of the experience, but not the only thing that makes the Viper the Viper.

I'd gladly take a V6TT + KERS Viper, if it had the power to make it worth it.

But, you are now bargaining with the decision. Adding extra goodies to make the decision palatable. Would you pick a V10 + KERS over the V6? Likely so. I'd pick a V6TT if it had $100K cash sitting in the trunk. Bargaining. LOL

[BlknBlu]

the real question is should Dodge continue to produce the Viper after government mandates V6 or less engines. We have no say if the V10 will be produced.

Bruce

[Black Pearl]

V-6 mid engine TT would be nice

[Vipes]

With all the insanity going around about the new GT being a V-6, would you buy a Viper with a Twin turbo V-6? I know its always been a V-10 BUT if Dodge were to come out tomorrow with 750HP TT V-6 that weighed 300 lbs less than the current V-10 and gave it a really exotic sound would you buy one? Lighter weight, better handling and more HP but in a V-6? Id do it. What are your thoughts? Just a dumb question but with the industry going this way more and more it seems its just a matter of time.

A 750 HP TT V-6 would have a weak power band in the early rpms. That was the whole reason I traded in my 850 hp 3 liter car for a viper, to also have fun in the low rpms.

[C-Note]

V-6 or V-10... They both don't sound good like a V-8.

I think a better question is that if the Viper was forced to be a V-6 by the gov. would we even want them to build it anymore?

I say NO, if the hand is forced I say kill the Viper. Just as they did to the 426 Hemi after 71.

That doesn't mean they cant build something that is a V-6 mid engine monster like the GT. It just needs to be something else.

[01sapphirebob]

If it comes to that then I would say stop Viper production. The heart of the Viper (hell, the whole idea of the car) was the big V 10. If it doesnt have that to me it's just not a Viper. I'd say if Chrysler has to go down that road in the future they should consider building the Copperhead. I think that had a V 6 if I'm not mistaken.

[Zybane]

IMO V8 sound is over rated. V10 or V12 is where it's at.

[GBS]

It sounds like in a few years if they're still producing Vipers and you want a new one you may not have a choice!

[v10enomous]

IMO V8 sound is over rated. V10 or V12 is where it's at.

When they sound like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncO4vGfvE34

[J TNT]

No. It would be a different animal.

[v10enomous]

I would be V6ixemous... Just doesn't have the same ring to it:lame:

[Rizzo]

You are clearly asking a loaded question, in order to arrive at the answer you personally want. The non-biased way to ask, would be to assume all else equal, except the engine platform.

650 hp V10 naturally aspirated
650 hp V6 twin-turbo

If those are my choices, then NO.

Its not an answer I want. I am just genuinely interested in if anybody would buy it? I could care less and dont want a V-6. Im one of the ones that would far prefer the new GT with a V-8. BUT I would take one with a V-6 just because the car is so damn incredible looking. I also HATE paddles. auto's, DCT's whatever they call them but again. This car I may forgive if it ever comes within my range and again I think the days of manuals are getting close to an end. It sucks but thats the way it seems to be going. So yes I added 750 HP to the equation to throw in the curve ball as I think the extra HP might make a lot of guys say "screw the V-10". Or If the V-10 is axed then would you rather they just let the Viper die and invent an entirely new car with a new name?

[Murpowa]

Where is all this gibberish stemming from? The government has been trying to kill big motors for years but it's gone nowhere. Ford showcases ONE version of their halo car with a V6 and everyone has their undies in a knot.

I don't see v8's, v10's etc being discontinued, I see emphasis focused on more efficiencies of these motors

[Coloviper]

Only if the V6 is welded to another V6 in tandem.

[Ohiotj]

I like a NA sports car. I will save a turbo for a diesel.

[Voice of Reason]

It makes me sad that it's even a question, so there's no way I'd want it actually produced.

I'd be fine with a turbo V8, but this V6 stuff kills me.

[GRNBGON]

W T F !!!! No true gear head would NEVER put Viper and that other letter & number in the same line. Please Father Viper & Grail Keeper, do not listen to them as they know not what they say. Kill it before you would bastardize it with a V6 or anything but a V10. Viper with a V10 is the only way to be ture to all the people who put in all the hard work to make the Viper what it is! If it does not have a V10 then it is not a VIPER!

[Zybane]

I don't know why some people think the Viper V10 sounds bad.

I think it sounds pretty bad ass:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJfdoU5_maY

[daytonprowler]

V10 NA.

Too many parts, etc. with a twin turbo.

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."

[swexlin]

I would be V6ixemous... Just doesn't have the same ring to it:lame:

Charlie, best comment in this thread!

[commandomatt]

I think its a fair question. It may be more feasible to create a high HP 6 that can also be used in several other applications (non turbo). The V10, as much as I love it, is just going to last so much longer. It wont be used in any other Chrysler vehicles and to keep making this engine and also improving on it, just for the Viper application, is asking a lot. We should be grateful that it still exists but I don't think it will be used many more years from now.

So, Yes, I would buy it but only if it's in the next Gen Viper. Let this generation have its time with the 10 and then do something new with a 6 that will outperform the current Gen.

[Dman]

To your exact question, yes, I'd consider it. But, would need to see proof over time of it's reliability and track perf well before I'd pull the trigger.

Now, HP for HP, then no, personally I think the Viper is perfect as is, I'd just like some Mopar options to tweak her up, and for bragging maybe 650HP would be nice, but as is I'm happy. But, yea when you start talking a factory 100+HP and hundreds of less lbs, then the performance side of me would win that debate.

[Schen]

Why would anyone want a 2nd Gen Chrysler Crossfire?

No.

--RS

[Shooter]

It's already been said. If it doesn't have a V10 in it...it's not a Viper. Would I buy a 750 HP car that's 300lbs lighter then a Viper and has a V6 in it. Maybe, but I doubt it.

[Stealth]

You are clearly asking a loaded question, in order to arrive at the answer you personally want. The non-biased way to ask, would be to assume all else equal, except the engine platform.

650 hp V10 naturally aspirated
650 hp V6 twin-turbo

If those are my choices, then NO.

This!

Highly unlikely to get substantially more power and much less weight and a good powerband with a V6TT alone. It would probably add electric motors, weight and complexity. AND it should be a different car. Viper needs V10, V12 or maybe V8TT, but it must be a badasp motor--not a twirly bird motor. Ferrari is putting TTs on V8s, not V6s.

[slitherv10]

Taking away the V10 does not need to be the option.....

Easy fix....

Make the car run on less cylinders during cruising and traffic speeds and have the option to shut off the engine as the Porsche Panamera has to save fuel. Its all a fuel issue. So find ways to make the whole set up more economical.

Or, as someone quoted above, kill the Viper and give it its respect. Build another car that takes Dodge,Chrysler Fait, whoever, into the future.

[BlknBlu]

the V-10 Viper and the V-6 Python.

Bruce

[CarolinaViper]

Taking away the V10 does not need to be the option.....

Easy fix....

Make the car run on less cylinders during cruising and traffic speeds and have the option to shut off the engine as the Porsche Panamera has to save fuel. Its all a fuel issue. So find ways to make the whole set up more economical.

Or, as someone quoted above, kill the Viper and give it its respect. Build another car that takes Dodge,Chrysler Fait, whoever, into the future.

GM has done this with their Tahoes and other vehicles for the last sever years...4 - 6 - 8 (variable displacement) cylinders based on driver imputes. Only works (I think) on cruising speeds of 60-70 MPH.

[mikesax]

If all that's available in 2020 is a "Viper SRT-TT6"- and it was the "ballsiest" or one of the ballsiest cars on the road-than Hell Yeah: HOWEVER- a lot can happen between now and than!! 25 plus years of V10 heritage would have to be eclipsed in such a way that the Viper "mystique" could continue-you never know what could come from the engineers and stylists!! NEVER SAY NEVER-too many GOOD or BAD things can happen between now and whenever!!

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I recall hearing that the current V10 is certified through 2018 and that the Hellcat engine will obviously not fit the current Viper configuration. With all that said, I think the V10 will be done in 2018 if not sooner. I am going to hang on to this one, because they will get hard to find in a decade after they stop the V10.

[IndyRon]

For me personally, I want continued incremental power increases with successive generations. I would not buy a V6 twin turbo Viper for 2 reasons. First, the lack of instantaneous torque...that's part of what makes a Viper fun, it has a table top powerband and you don't have to wait for anything to spool up to get it. Second, The ceiling is too low with a V6 for maximum output.

Yeah, I know that GTR's can be made fast but look what the UGR TTG's do to the Alpha 1x cars. You just can't offset cylinders and displacement. I would consider a TT V8 viper honestly but I'm also not one of the folks that would fall on my sword over the V10 or lack thereof.

[GBS]

Where is all this gibberish stemming from? The government has been trying to kill big motors for years but it's gone nowhere. Ford showcases ONE version of their halo car with a V6 and everyone has their undies in a knot.

I don't see v8's, v10's etc being discontinued, I see emphasis focused on more efficiencies of these motors

I think it's coming from Mark Jorgensen's (Woodhouse) comment in the "Ford discontinues V8's by 2018" thread which was "2020 is the last year for V8 and bigger so buy them up now while we can. Hard to believe that the government can dictate this don't they have better things to do than mess with our fun? Hopefully there is a chance for big power even with less cylinders and the HP wars rage on. ".

[Mr White]

Sure, 8 liter V6... sign me up.

[slitherv10]

It will give me an excuse to buy another brand.

[TonyCool]

I could deal with a V8 as long as it produced more power than the previous generation V10 engine. I would hate seeing the viper go to a V6.

[Bruce H.]

I chose a Viper for the first time for its all-round staggering performance, and probably would have been just as happy regardless of how they achieved it, V6, V8 or V10, side or rear exhaust, front-mid or rear-mid engine placement (probably happier if it were the latter). I think the rarity of a V10 adds to the exotic appeal of the car, and while I can see that Viper Nation has a long and well-deserved appreciation for the V10, I'm not sure a different engine would or should bother everyone...if it still performs like a champ. If Dodge is forced to go that way it would likely be done along with a complete vehicle redesign, and perhaps a whole new look, which is what many thought the Gen V should have been. Hopefully the Viper name would carry on even if the V10 didn't.

Something that's a lot more important than cylinder count to me in the next engine design would be a much higher rev limit that could better exploit lower gear ratios for improved power to the wheels, rather than high power at the crank at lower rpm. That's been the formula successfully used forever for the 911 GT3 and numerous other track monsters, and that's what I'd be looking for in a new power plant for my track use. The GT3 has a lot less than 640 hp, nor does it need it in order to basically match the Gen V on track with just 6 cylinder...and without any turbos or a supercharger! It's also a design that can run flat out all day on track and never miss a beat.

I won't lose any sleep letting Dick and Team Viper make those kind of decisions for us, rather than the other way around ;)

[v10enomous]

So how will I explain to people who ask me if my Viper has the V12 that it only has a V6... All kidding aside, the V10 is a much bigger part of the Viper's identity than the V8 is to the FGT. Even people who know next to nothing about Vipers seem to know that it has more than 8 cylinders even if they assume 12. I have to think the doors on the FGT are a big part of it's identity. The new one is anything but a proper GT40 tribute. Probably not 40" either. Chrysler should observe the response to the new GT to gauge how people may respond to a not so proper Viper. A lot of people think the big Viper V10 that we all love is laughable.

[viper_eddie]

The government isn't mandating anything but average fuel standards. So instead of making a V6 Viper I would prefer they make a V10 Viper and a small sized 2 cylinder car to offset that.

A little optimism would be useful around here, how about a V12 Viper?

[BlknBlu]

An electric Viper

Bruce

[Lawrenzo]

The government isn't mandating anything but average fuel standards. So instead of making a V6 Viper I would prefer they make a V10 Viper and a small sized 2 cylinder car to offset that.

A little optimism would be useful around here, how about a V12 Viper?

Finally, some sanity. Who gives a crap if the Viper only gets 12MPG. If you don't like it go buy a Prius and leave me the hell alone already!!

[SuperBird4404BBL]

AH, no........

[XSnake]

No.

[Chorps]

The question is how much would you pay for a Viper? The costs of engineering a unique engine with the sales numbers of the Viper almost dictate that it will either need to commonalize with another platform or go extinct.

CAFE standards, CARB and even crash standards are starting to really hem in the manufacturers on what they can do now. As the price of conforming with all of these standards goes up, so will the cost of engineering the next generation Viper. Better love it now, because the Viper as it exists right now cannot stay as it is. Change is coming whether you like it or not.

2017 will be an interesting year. Even the Hellcat will likely be seen as a last hurrah before the big tightening comes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/CAFE_Fuel_Economy_vs_Model_Year_and_Footprint_with _2017-2022_Proposals.png

[tiki240]

v6? no. v8? no. v10? yes.

[Redx]

wouldnt be the first, look at this pos viper with ls6 auto:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/owen-sound/one-of-a-kind/1038412437?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[Timnineside]

$55K for and brand new Gen V with a V6, yeah I'd buy one. Then swap a gen 3 or LS......

[jaxtk]

A V-6 will always sound like a V-6, no matter what the HP is!

[dasvolk]

I think our V10 is marginal sounding at best, but the new GT is going to be missing the most important aspect of a car like this:
NATURAL ASPIRATION!!!
I have driven a ton of sports cars and exotics over the years and there's nothing else like the Viper's V10. It's HUGE in displacement yet it revs like a Metzger motor. Wanna dickwave about Nurburgring times? Sure buy anything with a turbo mill and a DSG. Want to have FUN while driving, executing downshifts perfectly and having total control over a massive amount of power? Then the Viper is the car for you, no question.

[Martin]

I think that, if it had a V6 in front of another V6, I might look at it....

[FLATOUT]

Nope.

[Martin]

Nope.

Oh, come on, two V6 engines stacked together? Who wouldn't love that :) I love the Viper's V10, but just think what could be done with a V12.

[slysnake]

But if it's not a V10, its not a Viper.Well said!! PLEASE let it die before watering it down. Wouldn't be bad if "real" vipers got a bump like the FGT did when they stopped making them.

[LS6M]

Besides the motor, what sells me is the body and how rare it is to see on the streets. If the next gen viper had an awesome body and a turbo 6 would I buy it? yes. What other options would I have? Buy a vet? Lol nope, buy a used Gallardo? Possibly but why when you can buy an awesome looking v viper that looks current.

People who say they will ditch the brand really should think about it. I would sport a v6 viper. And as rare as they are now to see, everyone here apparently wont buy one so mine will be even rarer.

[Snakebit10]

I am with those that would prefer to see it die before a V6 is put in it. That being said many of the long term Viper-heads won't want one with a V6 but the masses just might. Tons of enthusiasts out there always complain about hp/ltr nonsense and actually think the V10 is inferior even though it eats their hp/ltr hero cars.

I would think that a redesigned Viper that moves away from the "comparatively" lower tech nature of the current model and adopts the high-tech, small displacement(V6) hipo approach that is popular now might just appeal to that demographic while simultaneously alienating a lot of the past and current clientele. If it comes down to sales or emissions or both I can see it being done but hopefully not in the too near future. I just wouldn't see the Viper the same if it has a V6. Same thing is happening to me with the new FGT. Just can't see it the same without at least a V8.

[BlknBlu]

The Mustang II yikes

Bruce

[sparkrn]

No way, not in the viper of today

[mnc2886]

The Mustang II yikes

Bruce

Well said!!

[05Commemorative]

Curious, where did the 300lbs lighter part come from in original post? I actually think a twin turbo V6 others offer is around the same weight as the current V10. The current V10 is lighter than most V8's, particularly those with overhead cams.

I only ask because I would love the car to be 300lbs lighter, but really love the V10.

[slitherv10]

Get Fiat to design a rear engine (Ferrari) for it and I don't care what size it has as long as it kicks butt and sounds like a bat outa hell!!

[Patentlaw]

Funny thread. Same thread years back. Would you buy a Viper with "nannies" such as anti-lock brakes.

Such male ego and predictable responses. "No way". Only wimps buy them. Etc.

Many of those losers are not around or changed their mind. They now own new cars with "nannies" and call the old cars "crap". Underpowered.

An analogous question would be, what is more impressive, the runner who ran the 100 meters in record time, or the runner who had the biggest legs? If you are at the track, nobody totes around a tape measure looking at thigh muscles. They look at the time ran.

The Viper has been about performance, not a fixed platform. If it was, the designers would have "let it die" and nobody would be around this joint.

[v10enomous]

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/v10_zps3ad7a160.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/njvipermail/media/v10_zps3ad7a160.jpg.html)

[Lightsaber]

The question is how much would you pay for a Viper? The costs of engineering a unique engine with the sales numbers of the Viper almost dictate that it will either need to commonalize with another platform or go extinct.

CAFE standards, CARB and even crash standards are starting to really hem in the manufacturers on what they can do now. As the price of conforming with all of these standards goes up, so will the cost of engineering the next generation Viper. Better love it now, because the Viper as it exists right now cannot stay as it is. Change is coming whether you like it or not.

2017 will be an interesting year. Even the Hellcat will likely be seen as a last hurrah before the big tightening comes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/CAFE_Fuel_Economy_vs_Model_Year_and_Footprint_with _2017-2022_Proposals.png

How about making a smaller displacement V10 with two turbochargers? It should get the next generation Viper a good EPA rated MPG and keep much of its soul.

Recall that the LFA has a naturally aspirated V10 with only 4.8L displacement making 552 horsepower. If Chrysler can make a 4L~5L twin-turbo V10 with ~700 horsepower, and keep the Viper alive under all the go-green legislation, I'm all for it.

[Zybane]

The LFA makes almost 100 HP less, little over half as much torque, yet gets noticeably worse gas mileage than the Viper.

[Schen]

And it's a Toyota! They had a billion dollar carbon fiber sowing machine to make the A-pillars and you couldn't buy it first you had to lease it first AND THEN you had the chance to buy it. The exhaust was tuned or built by Bose or whatever so you could listen to it rev, burp and gurgle in 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound. Weirdest program ever.The only decent power they ever made came from a inline-six.

But they gave that up too and became completely green. BOOM, Prius.

Build the next Viper with a I-5, half the cylinders, same sound, call it a day. Who's with me?

--RS

[ViperSmith]

the issue is, cost. Not a "whole lot" has changed from the original engine design, more so since Gen IV and Gen V.

To redesign any "higher mpg" engine is going to require a significant investment.

I don't see the justification for Dodge to dump $50m+ into a new V10 design it will use in <500 cars a year. Nice theory, but won't happen, IMO.

The same "Viper Diehards" that didn't buy a Gen V but complained about it endlessly will complain about a theoretical smaller engine Viper endlessly and still won't buy it either.

[Coloviper]

Despite some comments on draconian, cave dwelling manhood, etc to the question, for me it comes down to what I love. I love V-8s, V-10s and V-12s, with V-8s the most out of that. Despite what disposable income I may or may not have, I choose the vehicles I want in my life and I chose the platforms. If there are no more new V-8s or greater, than I have ZERO problem buying and maintaining a used "whatever" that does. I am not a keep up with the Jones person. I don't need a new vehicle all the time. Have only been privileged a couple of times to buy a new vehicle in my lifetime. It is not a necessity.

I think the auto industry is coming to a head in a few years. Number of true racers to car owners is decreasing every year. It is becoming more about show than go and more about car control by others than the individual.

So despite my earlier twin V-6 comment, I will answer with a resounding "no". Not interested. If it kills it, than kill it. My experience with an car/truck is much more than just how fast or this or that. The whole package needs to speak to me to entice. Plenty of ones on my want list that are already produced to keep me enthralled for a lifetime.

Produce it, don't produce it, could care less but I won't buy it if you do. People need to stop empowering these groups like EPA and these idiots in office. Stop buying there government mandated crap and then things will change. Stop enabling them.