C6 Z06 puts up a ridiculous time at VIR

[Snakebit10]

Well seeing that the Z06 vs Lambo was left up I figured I'd post this here. Z06 just destroyed the 918's time at VIR. I jsut saw this link on Mclarenlife. Thought you guys might be interested. I had a feeling it would acquit itself well on the track if not so much in the straights against some of the top dogs. Looks like we might need the TA 2.0 or the ACR if these times are correct. Here is the article.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-2015-corvette-z06-absolutely-destroy-virginia-international-raceway/

[Shooter]

Well seeing that the Z06 vs Lambo was left up I figured I'd post this here. Z06 just destroyed the 918's time at VIR. I jsut saw this link on Mclarenlife. Thought you guys might be interested. I had a feeling it would acquit itself well on the track if not so much in the straights against some of the top dogs. Looks like we might need the TA 2.0 or the ACR if these times are correct. Here is the article.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-2015-corvette-z06-absolutely-destroy-virginia-international-raceway/

New track is waaay faster then the old one. I'd like to see same day, same track configuration before making any judgement.

[ViperSmith]

I put little stock into what Chevy says their cars do.

I'd like to see what Randy does. I'd like to see more than one hero lap. Will the car be running that fast after 4 laps? 10 laps?

No doubt it is quick and I'd hope it would be for as much as Tadge has trumped it up.

[Eachey51]

"So does the Z06’s 2:41.3 mean that it’s quicker than the 918? Well, no, not really. The Z06 scorcher—4.3 seconds quicker than GM’s time at the track for the C6 ZR1—was laid down by engineer Jim Mero, one of the Corvette program’s hottest shoes, and someone who has perhaps spent more time thrashing the 2015 Z06 than anyone else on the planet. Chevrolet also no doubt spent several hours, if not days, at VIR doing development work in concert with achieving the lap. In contrast, our editors’ first time lapping a performance car in anger often occurs during the Lightning Lap competition itself, and time restrictions—we often have more than two dozen cars to assess in a three-day window—generally mean that we only get 15 to 20 laps to record our top times."

[Nine Ball]

The lap time is fast indeed, but shouldn't be compared with the other "Lightning Lap" article times. That paragraph above explains why. Mero is a much better driver, and far more familiar with the car, than the magazine guys are.

[ViperJon]

Lets see Porsche (or Dodge) send over their best hot shoe with a few days setup to run the new track and we'll compare times.
Seriously, comparing a factory drivers time with many hours behind that one cars wheel to some mag writers times on a redone track?

[serpent]

The video referenced and what entire article is about is the Grand West Course, 4.1 miles. The 918 did its time in the Grand East Course, 4.2 miles.

I've said this in another forum, I refuse to believe a c7z can clock a faster lap time than a 918.
625hp 35xxlbs vs 887 36xxlb AWD. Fwiw, a 918 is a bonafide 10-sec car. The c7z has yet to run that time on stock tires.

[Nine Ball]

The video referenced and what entire article is about is the Grand West Course, 4.1 miles. The 918 did its time in the Grand East Course, 4.2 miles.


I'm only seeing one 4.2m course, the Grand Course. Nothing mentioned about Grand East?

http://virnow.com/track/configurations/

[Bruce H.]

Fantastic lap, but not comparable in any way to any LL time for the reasons mentioned in the link:

-C&D testers often only gets 15-20 laps in a car (that's basically one lapping day session, and your first session is usually your slowest). Mero is the Z06 hot shoe. Enough said already, but...
-Mero uses all of the track where widened over the old curbs and C&D doesn't (their attempt to make new results more comparable with old).
-GM's engineers were there for days tweaking and monitoring everything they could to provide Mero the best lap possible.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Z06 lap time, and in fact it is the only lap video to show the car's true potential. Unfortunately we haven't seen that from any other car, and C&D's video of their TA fast lap effort was just laughable. If we want to know what any other car is capable of we need to see a lap with a professional driver that has seat time in the car like Mero.

(Oops, you guys covered it nicely while as was writing)

[Nine Ball]

BTW, the Chevy run was done on the same Grand West Course, as per both of these articles. Not seeing a track course discrepancy, although conditions differ, and drivers likely vary quite a bit in skill.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2014-results-and-sector-times-feature
http://blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-2015-corvette-z06-absolutely-destroy-virginia-international-raceway/

[Nine Ball]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Z06 lap time, and in fact it is the only lap video to show the car's true potential. Unfortunately we haven't seen that from any other car, and C&D's video of their TA fast lap effort was just laughable. If we want to know what any other car is capable of we need to see a lap with a professional driver that has seat time in the car like Mero.

(Oops, you guys covered it nicely while as was writing)

Agreed. The guy driving for C&D... not good. Such an ugly lap here.

http://youtu.be/m2NiOeoHZ1I

[ViperJon]

Give Dominik a few days practice there in a TA.

[serpent]

I'm only seeing one 4.2m course, the Grand Course. Nothing mentioned about Grand East?

http://virnow.com/track/configurations/
I was going by this: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway_post_2013.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_International_Raceway

Too many discrepancies.
The grand course (was probably the grand east) 4.2 miles
Grand West 4.1 miles

I would also take the tracks own website before wikipedia, but thats just what I've noticed.

[Nine Ball]

That fastestlaps site is just a database for people to post stuff. The two links I posted are from the same magazine, who tested both cars. If you read the article, they even say they used the same track as the 918 and other lightning lap cars.

[TrackAire]

What makes that lap even more impressive is the car set that time with Jim Mero driving which means a pretty hefty weight penalty.....definitely not a racers physique, lol.

Good for GM, now this should make things interesting so the Viper can go back and dominate.

Cheers,
George

[Viper Girl]

OP, I moved to Off Topic as the subject isn't related to Gen V vipers.Thanks

[Snakebit10]

It seems to be the same configuration as the one used by LL (4.2 mile). The badly driven TA still did a 2:49 at the LL if memory serves and I believe someone said this was done on the newly repaved surface as well in another thread. So it has a lot more in it. I would like to see what Farnbacher or Bom would do flatout with the TA on this new surface. I don't think they would need days to achieve the TA's best though if what they did at the Ring with the ACR is any indication. But as mentioned I think we will need a same day, same driver (Pobst etc) head to head to minimize the variables and have a better scope of the two beasts. This is definitely a shot in the arm for the Vette guys though.

No problem Viper Girl. Thanks.

[Stealth]

Does Dodge even have any hot shoes left???

Sounds like a great C7Z lap, but I seriously doubt that the C7Z is faster than the 918, or even the Gen V.

[Zybane]

Dodge also needs to put a proper set of tires on their Viper (IE ACR) for these comparisons. You can't compete against those Z07 ringer track tires with the street tires on the Viper. That's worth 2-3+ seconds right there. Not to mention the 918 also has way worse tires than the Z07. It's funny how competing manufactures haven't figured out that by Chevy offering track tires on their Z07 and Z28 is half the reason they are fast. It's a loaded race.

[Bruce H.]

Good luck finding an automotive media that will control/eliminate all variables to provide a meaningful comparison test in order to determine the full potential of any car at this rarified level. And that goes double when trying to compare those deeply flawed results to those from a manufacturer who goes there with their own driver, full crew of engineers and equipment, and with the specific goal of recording just one great lap at all costs. I'd like to know what bonus remuneration Mero would get for that effort, and whether it would have been affected if he had completely destroyed the car while trying ;)

[Snakebit10]

Zybane would that then make the late great ACR "loaded" because it had MPSC's and its competition didn't at the time? Many cried about that being the only advantage the ACR had over the ZR1 after the first round at the Ring. Then they both did second rounds each at the Ring on MPSC's and the Snake crushed it by 6+ seconds. So all the Snake needs is some comparable rubber from the factory to have a more equal footing with this new Z on a circuit track. I wouldn't grudge GM or the Z for having the better track tire.

Same day, same driver and comparable rubber is the best we are going to get. No way to remove all variables as Bruce said. It would be nice to see what a real driver could do with the TA on Corsa's before they try sticker rubber. That 2:49 on Corsa's at VIR can be improved upon big time with just a driver mod. I'd also love to see the 2010 ACR on the newer MPSC's hit the repaved VIR again just to reiterate how potent it still is.

[Shooter]

Dodge also needs to put a proper set of tires on their Viper (IE ACR) for these comparisons. You can't compete against those Z07 ringer track tires with the street tires on the Viper. That's worth 2-3+ seconds right there. Not to mention the 918 also has way worse tires than the Z07. It's funny how competing manufactures haven't figured out that by Chevy offering track tires on their Z07 and Z28 is half the reason they are fast. It's a loaded race.

Why?. If it's not the stock tires then the laps don't count. As someone mentioned, ACR had cups and Vette didn't. Now it's reversed (although the Corsa R compound is not bad really). Until Dodge gets some bad ass tires on the car, it's what we have to work with. Only the fanboi's get worked up over bench racing. I think Bruce H has more laps in a TA then anyone short of SRT. He seems to do pretty good on the stock rubber.

[gfviperman]

Something smells about this "test" ... games played somewhere ...

[TrackAire]

Good luck finding an automotive media that will control/eliminate all variables to provide a meaningful comparison test in order to determine the full potential of any car at this rarified level. And that goes double when trying to compare those deeply flawed results to those from a manufacturer who goes there with their own driver, full crew of engineers and equipment, and with the specific goal of recording just one great lap at all costs. I'd like to know what bonus remuneration Mero would get for that effort, and whether it would have been affected if he had completely destroyed the car while trying ;)

He pretty much totaled a C7-Z06 at the Ring and still has his job....at least I was told he was driving.

[Bruce H.]

Moving up to a better tire than a Corsa will certainly make a difference, but not until the driver has extracted 10/10ths from the Corsas. Otherwise you're basically just under-utilizing a better tire, and likely masking driving mistakes occasionally with the greater grip. I know I have to learn to drive the car to the point where I'm balancing on the limits of adhesion a lot more often before I could move up in tire. I'll know that when the car is basically in a controlled slight drift around almost every corner. Mero has developed that kind of skill in the Z06, but while the C&D testers would erratically exceed the limits of grip at times, they'd be well short of the limits most of the time.


He pretty much totaled a C7-Z06 at the Ring and still has his job....at least I was told he was driving.

Yes, Mero's like all race drivers, paid to push it to the limit in an effort to win, and that invariably involves going beyond the limit at times. You just hope the car survives when you do, but you accept that it might not!

[Bruce H.]

I think Bruce H has more laps in a TA then anyone short of SRT. He seems to do pretty good on the stock rubber.

I think there's a few others that are racking up the laps now as well! I really do like the grip of the Corsas, but I love the tire for all the other aspects it excels at that are just as important. They are extremely consistent throughout their tread life (don't heat cycle out, seem to change in dry grip much as tread depth changes), don't get greasy when pushed to higher temps under aggressive driving, they provide the driver good feedback as you approach the limits, and then break away progressively when you get there (easy to regain control from under or oversteer). They also wear pretty evenly with the TA's factory alignment (-2.5f and -1.5r). And since you never know if your booked track day might be run in the rain, or the track damp from overnight rain, or how cool it might be, it's good to know that this tire is fantastic in the wet and over a broader temperature range than any tire that surpasses it in dry grip. It's a truly streetable R compound that's may be the best choice of any for this kind of a car that combines both street and track duty.

[mnc2886]

The Viper community has previously not liked being compared against the Vette. Even Ralph publicly stated that it made no sense. There may be a few in agreement with me, I love the rivalry that is spawning. Porbably has always been there, but watching the Viper and Vette lately and over the last few years has been awesome. It's pushed them both to well over 600 HP and as well balanced for track duty as ever.

I agree with ViperJon. SRT should take notice and go add fuel to the fire.