Anyone using aero kit rear spoiler only

[venum4u]

Just wanted to know if anyone is using the aero kit rear spoiler, without the front splitters. Thoughts.

[Shooter]

Just wanted to know if anyone is using the aero kit rear spoiler, without the front splitters. Thoughts.

How fast do you drive?. The Advanced Aero barely produces much over 250 lbs at 150 mph. It's not like you have a wing generating massive DF but I personally would not feel comfortable at much over 100 without the front aero. Things could get dicey with the front producing lift, and the back generating down force, even as minimal as it is.

[Ninjakris]

I have had my 06' coupe north of 170mph with only a rear wing. I know the body is different than a gen V, but the car felt very stable. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

[Shooter]

I have had my 06' coupe north of 170mph with only a rear wing. I know the body is different than a gen V, but the car felt very stable. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Amazing. I'll look for you in the next Darwin awards.

[Ninjakris]

Low blow shooter. I was trying to give my real world experience with a wing and no front aero. I have done several 1/2 mile events with the wing on and wing off. All closed course safe environments. I honestly don't think the car felt any different with or without the wing on. im pretty sure I even have photos crossing the 1/2 mile at 155 with and without a wing. The car didn't look any different. I'm not an engineer and don't know how the balance of aero is determined for a factory car. I'm sure a front splitter will balance the car better, but to say I should be at the Darwin awards is a little much when I have a lot of high speed experience in a viper. What is your experience with aero at high speeds in a viper?

-Op, sorry for getting a little off topic.

[Voice of Reason]

Shooter you're overreacting about not having the front aero. The fronts don't do much, it's the rear that's providing the claimed 285 lbs of downforce or whatever at 150 mph. In my 13 where I only had the rear aero installed I hit 170 once, in a straight line, and it was rock solid. 170 may have had me up for grabs for a Darwin award, but the splitter had nothing to do with that.

[Murpowa]

I'd be more worried about a tire blowout then thinking about the effect no splitter may cause

[Shooter]

Well gee. I guess I should have taken the front splitter off then when racing. Guess my ACR would have been faster then huh. Ya, know, without all that wasted drag in the front doing nothing. Either one of you "experts" try to turn?. Hell, we better tell Dodge to get rid of that big splitter on the upcoming ACR....Car doesn't need it. Maybe you can save Ralph some money, and not worry about all that wind tunnel testing Just ask ole ninjakris...expert in high speed vehicle dynamics.

Your taking a big risk driving an imbalanced car at that speed, but hey, carry on with your bad self stud. I'm finished.

There ya go OP, the experts say have at it.

[XSnake]

Low blow shooter. I was trying to give my real world experience with a wing and no front aero. I have done several 1/2 mile events with the wing on and wing off. All closed course safe environments. I honestly don't think the car felt any different with or without the wing on. im pretty sure I even have photos crossing the 1/2 mile at 155 with and without a wing. The car didn't look any different. I'm not an engineer and don't know how the balance of aero is determined for a factory car. I'm sure a front splitter will balance the car better, but to say I should be at the Darwin awards is a little much when I have a lot of high speed experience in a viper. What is your experience with aero at high speeds in a viper?

-Op, sorry for getting a little off topic.

So you've run 1/2 mile events with and without a wing and your your car didn't feel any different? It didn't feel like you were dragging a parachute back there? I'm sure your mph was different.

[Ninjakris]

MTGTS, I had around 10 passes last year with the wing on in the 1/2 mile. All passes were 150-154, so pretty consistent. This year I was pretty determined that the wing was holding me back. So I did a couple passes with it on to make sure my baseline didn't change, and it didn't (154mph). I took off the rear wing expecting a miracle, but ran the exact same speed. I did a couple more passes and all were within a couple mph. l put the wing back on and did one last pass late in the day with some cool air that came in and pulled off a 158mph pass. Go figure. As for the dragging effect, I honestly didn't notice a difference.

Here's some food for thought as well. Early this year in the Chicago 1/2 mile, Nth moto did 214mph with only a front splitter and no wing.

All my experience has been going in a straight line. I can't argue one way or the other the benefits of balanced aero on a track. That being said, I don't think a car will destroy itself with just a rear spoiler or wing on and no front aero.

If anyone else has experience in different aero configurations, please chime in. It is a interesting topic to talk about.

[XSnake]

What position was your ACR wing at? You should def. have a top speed difference at the end of a 1/2 mile with and without the wing.

[Torquemonster06]

If you put your wing in a "Neutral", where +or- down force is there would be little drag. And I stress LITTLE drag. Please correct if Im wrong.

[Ninjakris]

MTGTS, my wing is in the neutral position. I have never really messed around with changing the pitch of it. As for the top speed difference, I'm on the fence about how that works. I'm sure the absolute top speed would be higher without the wing just like a 08 viper vs. 08 viper ACR. I think the regular coupe can do around 10mph more (please correct me if i'm wrong on that). However, in the 1/2 mile, my speeds were all done at the top of 4th gear (5th gear fell on its face). I make enough power through 4th that my limiting factor was the gearing and how well my launch was. Nineball recommended taking the wing off as well, and he has seen a ACR do more mph in the standing mile with the wing off. I think the wing's real limiting factors are at the high speeds 180mph+. Can any engineers shed some light on any of this?

Here's a pretty cool article about aero and the different aspects of it.

http://www.timeattack.co.uk/all-about-aero-the-basics/#sthash.IQubX5ES.dpbs

[VENOM V]

I think a wing even at zero degrees has significant drag. My Camaro has a smaller wing than the ACR and it has 69 Lb drag at 150 mph, at the angle I run it. It definitely slows the car in the straights. At zero degrees it has about 30 Lb drag at 150 mph.

[XSnake]

Directly out of the factory manual

"The ACR rear wing generates most of the car’s aerodynamic downforce. The wing is a powerful element that will affect the handling of the car at speeds greater than 50 mph. Extreme caution should be given to any modifications to the factory settings."

I'm looking to see if I can find the actual downforce #'s per setting. I know each setting is 1.5 degree difference

[Shooter]

Directly out of the factory manual

"The ACR rear wing generates most of the car’s aerodynamic downforce. The wing is a powerful element that will affect the handling of the car at speeds greater than 50 mph. Extreme caution should be given to any modifications to the factory settings."

I'm looking to see if I can find the actual downforce #'s per setting. I know each setting is 1.5 degree difference

All the graphs I've seen just show the 1000 lbs@150, 1400lbs @180 with the wing in the stock position. I tried my ACR in the last rear position which is supposed to be neutral but didn't like the feeling around high speed corners (130 +). When I talked with SRT at the track about settings, the crew just said what the manual says. 1.5 deg per setting like you posted. Dial the wing down 3 deg at a time until you get push, then back out 1.5. :)

[TrackAire]

All the graphs I've seen just show the 1000 lbs@150, 1400lbs @180 with the wing in the stock position. I tried my ACR in the last rear position which is supposed to be neutral but didn't like the feeling around high speed corners (130 +). When I talked with SRT at the track about settings, the crew just said what the manual says. 1.5 deg per setting like you posted. Dial the wing down 3 deg at a time until you get push, then back out 1.5. :)

I know I've asked this question before and got some answers in another thread, but I really don't see the wing producing 1000 lbs of downforce as in setting a 1000 lb weight on the back deck lid of a Gen 4. If you think about it, do you really think the two small spots that the uprights attach to would actually be able to handle 500 lbs each without cracking the deck lid? I kinda doubt it but that is just my opinion and guess.

What I can't get the exact answer to is how the engineers come up with the "downforce" number of 1000 lbs @ 150 mph. Is that 300 lbs of actual weight on the back deck from air pressure and a reduction of lift of 700 lbs??? I don't know and would love to know from a physics point of view the actual way they calculate these numbers. A lot of the front end downforce (or anti lift as I look at it) could be how much was Ninjakris' car lowered? If it was lowered in the front, then that may also explain why he had decent stability even with the wing on and no splitter.

An aero dynamics expert I was talking to explained one of the largest "downforce" items that is on our vehicles is the windshield....kind of makes sense. But, if the windshield that is probably 50% bigger than the ACR wing is taken into account, I'd think the air pressure would be way over 1000 lbs because of the angle of attack. I don't think you could put over 1000 lbs of weight over the majority of the windshield and not have it crack. So that brings me back to my original thoughts that anti lift is actually a more important number than physical downforce (and probably a lot less drag).

Of course, most of us are concerned with being able to turn left and right, straight line performance probably isn't as crucial if the car is slightly off balanced.

I'm really interested in this aero shit but I'll shut up now, lol.

[XSnake]

On the 7:12 Ring record run you car watch the downforce graph that the engineers had hooked sensors up to to monitor. I'm sure they did this to make adjustments to the wing at the track.

There is a reason that the ACR rear springs are so stiff. They keep the wing from pushing the car into the pavement.

[Nine Ball]

I don't think the TA/Aero spoiler and splitters are that big of a deal. The trunk spoiler does most of the work, I sort of doubt the front splitters do much at all, other than look kinda cool. They probably just do the same thing that the little black flaps in front of the tire do :). ACR aero though, big difference with and without.

[Chorps]

Lots of information in this article here:

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-wing-key-to-high-speed-stability

The number I heard for the front splitter was, out of the 1000lbs of downforce at 150mph, 300lbs of that was the front splitter.

According to the sidebar in the above article, the wing contributes about 600lbs., so the dive planes account for about 100lbs.

http://d2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net/resources/images/cdn/cms/0509hpc_FOD_9.jpg

[XSnake]

Great article Chorps, thx

[FSTENUF]

For what is worth. I am going to install the rear spoiler. I can not install the front spoiler to low to use in my neck of the woods. However i am going to install the canards on the front to give me some type of balance.

[Shooter]

For what is worth. I am going to install the rear spoiler. I can not install the front spoiler to low to use in my neck of the woods. However i am going to install the canards on the front to give me some type of balance.

I didn't know the TA 2.0 Canards were released yet. I had asked JonB about them about 2 weeks ago, and although he already has the wing available, he didn't have access to the canards yet. If you care to share, where are you getting them from.?

[FSTENUF]

A dealer in pa has a contact with agency power. If you go to there web site they have them.

[SilveRT8]

For what is worth. I am going to install the rear spoiler. I can not install the front spoiler to low to use in my neck of the woods. However i am going to install the canards on the front to give me some type of balance.

I may be doing the same, as I dont want to add the front splitters if I do the lower spring caps.

[Shooter]

A dealer in pa has a contact with agency power. If you go to there web site they have them.

Thank you. I looked at those about a month ago but realized they were about 1/2 the width of the canards shown on the TA 2.0 and probably worthless as far as actual down force. I'll wait until JonB can get me the real one's. Good luck and I hope they work out for you.